Pulled by Garda - one way street dilema

PCPhoto

Voodoomelon wrote: »

There's no such thing as a €40 fine, the minimum is €80 and 2 points. Whilst i sympathise with you and the ignorant Garda, if you contest it if will probably end up with you getting 4 points as the fact is you went down a one way street and there's no defending it. You caught him on a bad day.

Sorry - have to be a pedantic pr1ck here .... driving in a bus lane is a €60 fine (no penalty points) ..... I have gotten it a couple of times (twice driving at 6.45ish skipping traffic ...fair cop by the garda - but in my defence I was late for football ...lol)

MagicSean

AlekSmart wrote: »

Leroy_Brown has one very clear option available.

Lawyer-Up and go to Court.

There he/she (via his Brief) can put the facts as outlined on this thread to the Judge and get a ruling thereupon.

This adjudication can then,should it prove negative,be appealed to a superior court all the way to the Supreme Court if the grounds exist.

One thing I tend to do when in the vicinity of Garda activity is to make a discreet note of any shoulder tabs I can see and the identifiying code on the Vehicle Roof,although I concede that on a big-jeep it would be difficult to note this.

It might also be worthwhile to inspect the scene in daylight with a view to noting the regulatory signage and/or statutory road-markings which if not all in order could well provide grounds for a strike-out.

There's no need to be discreet. They won't care if you take their shoulder number. The reason they don't like giving out their first names is because it is easy to look someone up and find their address. The number on the roof of the car is only for the helicopter and doesn't help much in identifying the car. Reg number is better.

If the op really wants to contest this, his only real option is to prove that the signage for the road was not adaquate so inspecting the scene in daylight is a good option.

Seth Brundle

@OP - was the garda wearing their hat - you do know that they aren't allowed to fine you if they weren't!

scudzilla

kbannon wrote: »

@OP - was the garda wearing their hat - you do know that they aren't allowed to fine you if they weren't!

Are you having a laugh??

Seth Brundle

Nope - I was talking to a fella in the pub the other night who is apparently a barrister. Now he was slightly drunk but he assured me that its the way and always has been. Its a little known loophole!



Oh as for the thread title: <beavis & butthead laugh>hur hur hur</beavis & butthead laugh>

MagicSean

scudzilla wrote: »

Are you having a laugh??

I prefer the one where they have to let pegnant women use their hat as a toilet.

dellas1979

A guy I know got stopped for speeding and while the garda was standing at the car window, his hat blew off.

Immediately told the guy to drive on...

cpoh1

OP ignore the fine. One of two things will happen:

1. You never hear anymore about it (i have first hand experience of this)

or

2. You get summonsed, pay a small amount for a solicitor explaining that you never received the fine in the post and have i struck out (i also have witnessed this). Its a bit of hassle but its worth it to avoid the points.

Seth Brundle

cpoh1 wrote: »

2. You get summonsed, pay a small amount for a solicitor explaining that you never received the fine in the post and have i struck out (i also have witnessed this). Its a bit of hassle but its worth it to avoid the points.

Surely you aren't suggesting that the OP commit an even bigger offence by perjuring themselves? Are you Willie O'Dea by any chance?

TheInquisitor

donvito99 wrote: »

As the Garda supposedly said, he does not have to give his name. He has an epaulette number. That is sufficient.

I described the OP as cheeky, because was there any need for him to ask of the Garda's name? The OP was in the wrong, he needed to accept that there and then.

Well as the Garda also "said" "Garda Surname"? Is this not acting childish. As an garda would you think this is an appropraite response. Surely "no you cannot have my name but here is my Id number" would have been an apropraite and mature response not acting like an idiot

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

OP ignore the fine. One of two things will happen:

1. You never hear anymore about it (i have first hand experience of this)

or

2. You get summonsed, pay a small amount for a solicitor explaining that you never received the fine in the post and have i struck out (i also have witnessed this). Its a bit of hassle but its worth it to avoid the points.

Thats the worst advice ever. The judge in Port Laoise is more likely to give you the death penalty than let you off. The summons for an unpaid fine is issued automatically so the only way to get away with it is to avoid the summons being served, which is difficult to do.

MagicSean

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Well as the Garda also "said" "Garda Surname"? Is this not acting childish. As an garda would you think this is an appropraite response. Surely "no you cannot have my name but here is my Id number" would have been an apropraite and mature response not acting like an idiot

I don't think he said that. Id say he gave his actual surname.

TheColl

cpoh1 wrote: »

OP ignore the fine. One of two things will happen:

1. You never hear anymore about it (i have first hand experience of this)

or

2. You get summonsed, pay a small amount for a solicitor explaining that you never received the fine in the post and have i struck out (i also have witnessed this). Its a bit of hassle but its worth it to avoid the points.

OP do yourself a favour and do not follow this advice. Unbelievable.

MagicSean

kbannon wrote: »

Nope - I was talking to a fella in the pub the other night who is apparently a barrister. Now he was slightly drunk but he assured me that its the way and always has been. Its a little known loophole!



Oh as for the thread title: <beavis & butthead laugh>hur hur hur</beavis & butthead laugh>

Common misconception. I see them quoting that crap on Indymedia all the time. The only law that requires the Garda to be wearing uniform is Section 91 of the Road Traffic Act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0091.html#zza24y1961s91

Its in relation to directing traffic for a major event.

cpoh1

kbannon wrote: »

Surely you aren't suggesting that the OP commit an even bigger offence by perjuring themselves? Are you Willie O'Dea by any chance?

Are we here to judge the guy or help him out? I am suggesting the above because i want to help him avoid his fine and points. I have no problem in saying I have no morality when it comes to this type of stuff.

cpoh1

k_mac wrote: »

Thats the worst advice ever. The judge in Port Laoise is more likely to give you the death penalty than let you off. The summons for an unpaid fine is issued automatically so the only way to get away with it is to avoid the summons being served, which is difficult to do.

Can you tell me what happened to the speeding fine i ignored two years ago then? I was in court recently and there were more than 20 people getting away with fines due to this. I would join that bandwagon in an instant.

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

Are we here to judge the guy or help him out? I am suggesting the above because i want to help him avoid his fine and points. I have no problem in saying I have no morality when it comes to this type of stuff.

If the guy got the summons he got the ticket. And he was told to expect the ticket. If the Garda pushes this with the judge the op could find himself in heaps of trouble. Even if the judge accepts it he'll probably male him pay the original fine anyway.

dirtydiesel

How do people ride a horse and use a laptop at the same time? Op ive no advice to offer you although I saw straight away what you were asking, a simple question which warranted a simple answer.
I am amazed but not surprised by some of the responses you got!!!
Think you gotta watch out for the laptop using horse riders in future.

walshkvn

Its pay up time alright ... you will get no where taking any other course of action.

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

Can you tell me what happened to the speeding fine i ignored two years ago then? I was in court recently and there were more than 20 people getting away with fines due to this. I would join that bandwagon in an instant.

Probably all prosecuted by the same garda who didn't turn up. Most likely the fine was from a fixed camera somewhere. Not many Gardaí miss their court dates anymore.

MagicSean

dirtydiesel wrote: »

How do people ride a horse and use a laptop at the same time? Op ive no advice to offer you although I saw straight away what you were asking, a simple question which warranted a simple answer.
I am amazed but not surprised by some of the responses you got!!!
Think you gotta watch out for the laptop using horse riders in future.

Its easy with an iphone.

cpoh1

k_mac wrote: »

If the guy got the summons he got the ticket. And he was told to expect the ticket. If the Garda pushes this with the judge the op could find himself in heaps of trouble. Even if the judge accepts it he'll probably male him pay the original fine anyway.

Not true, summons are either hand delivered or registered post. Judges are more contemptful of a flawed sfining ystem and disorganised/unprofessional garda as they are the public coming with excuses like this. Unfortunately judges are left with no option but to strike this out and worst case scenario you get a fine but not points.

cpoh1

k_mac wrote: »

Probably all prosecuted by the same garda who didn't turn up. Most likely the fine was from a fixed camera somewhere. Not many Gardaí miss their court dates anymore.

I was pulled over by a garda for doing 58kph in a 50. I ignored the fine i received 3 months later and 2 years down the line have heard nothing since. Nothing to do with gardai missing court dates or anything like that. The system is flawed and people are perfectly entitled to expoit it.

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

Not true, summons are either hand delivered or registered post. Judges are more contemptful of a flawed sfining ystem and disorganised/unprofessional garda as they are the public coming with excuses like this. Unfortunately judges are left with no option but to strike this out and worst case scenario you get a fine but not points.

The judge is more likely to believe someone didn't get a summons because of the system in place. If the person did get a summons then the address the summons was delivered to was the correct address. As this is the same address the ticket would have gone to there is not much chance that the accused didnt get the ticket.

cpoh1

k_mac wrote: »

The judge is more likely to believe someone didn't get a summons because of the system in place. If the person did get a summons then the address the summons was delivered to was the correct address. As this is the same address the ticket would have gone to there is not much chance that the accused didnt get the ticket.

I really have no idea what you are trying to say...

Summons are registered or hand delivered i.e. verified delivered to your hand and you are aware of them.

Fines are posted in normal post i.e. the onus is on the prosecution to prove you had the opportunity to pay the fine. Remember the reason you are in court is because you have disputed the original offence.

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

I really have no idea what you are trying to say...

Summons are registered or hand delivered i.e. verified delivered to your hand and you are aware of them.

Fines are posted in normal post i.e. the onus is on the prosecution to prove you had the opportunity to pay the fine. Remember the reason you are in court is because you have disputed the original offence.

A summons can also be delivered by being placed in your letterbox by the Garda.

cpoh1

k_mac wrote: »

A summons can also be delivered by being placed in your letterbox by the Garda.

Now im just going to ignore your complete nonsense posts :rolleyes:

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

Now im just going to ignore your complete nonsense posts :rolleyes:

I'm sure if you check with your local district court they will confirm it. Or check the legal discussion forum. In any case we're side-tracking from the original post. I think it's a bad idea for the op to try lie his way out of this.

TheInquisitor

k_mac wrote: »

I don't think he said that. Id say he gave his actual surname.

Ah ya ur probalby right im just being confrontational! Screw defending the Op...OP WTF were u doing driving down a one way street. How could you miss the signs on both the road and the street?? Thats just very poor driving!

cpoh1

k_mac wrote: »

I'm sure if you check with your local district court they will confirm it. Or check the legal discussion forum. In any case we're side-tracking from the original post. I think it's a bad idea for the op to try lie his way out of this.

I dont need to check any of that, i have a solicitor sitting right next to me at the minute who is pissing herself laughing at the power of your misinformation on the internet. A summons needs to be proven to be delivered in ALL instances period, please cut out the rubbish in your posts :eek:

argosy2006

You drove down that one way street on purpose didn't you,! you thought it was no big deal, your friend told you ''chance it it will be ok'' ,am i right!
I have no more questions your honour,:D

TJJP

cpoh1 wrote: »

I dont need to check any of that, i have a solicitor sitting right next to me at the minute who is pissing herself laughing at the power of your misinformation on the internet. A summons needs to be proven to be delivered in ALL instances period, please cut out the rubbish in your posts :eek:

Someone needs a trip to the Law Library....

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/summons

For non-payment of fixed charge fines
When you are issued with a fixed charge notice for a road traffic offence and you fail to pay the fine within the time allowed, a summons is automatically issued and sent to you by ordinary post. This process does not require a Garda to apply for the summons to be issued, because the summons is triggered by non-payment of the fixed charge fine.

Service of the summons

The rules which govern the service of summonses are to be found in the Rules of the District Court (Order 10). Basically a summons can be served on you in the following ways:

Personal delivery: by handing a copy of the summons to you or by leaving it at your last known abode or your place of work, or with your spouse, child or other relative.
Postal delivery: by ordinary or registered post to your last or most usual place of abode or to your place of business or employment.
Where service is affected by personal delivery, the summons must be served at least 7 days before the date fixed for your court case. In the case of registered post, the period is 21 days.

If a summons has not been correctly served, you are not obliged to appear in court in response to it. However, if you are present in court, there is no reason why the proceedings against you cannot proceed. In other words, any defect in the service of the summons is corrected by your appearance in court.

MagicSean

cpoh1 wrote: »

I dont need to check any of that, i have a solicitor sitting right next to me at the minute who is pissing herself laughing at the power of your misinformation on the internet. A summons needs to be proven to be delivered in ALL instances period, please cut out the rubbish in your posts :eek:

I suggest your friend return to law school.

drkpower

TJJP wrote: »

Someone needs a trip to the Law Library....

Indeed he does.

cpoh1 wrote: »

A summons needs to be proven to be delivered in ALL instances period, please cut out the rubbish in your posts

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/judge-closes-loophole-used-to-avoid-speeding-penalty-points-1824424.html

But a new ruling from Circuit Court Judge Michael White that proof of posting of the notice, as distinct from proof of receipt, is sufficient for the courts was described yesterday as "breaking new ground" and of having "ramifications all over the country".

And the Road Traffic Act 2010 (when enacted) will remove any and all doubt in this area by requiring the Defendant to prove he did not receive a fixed notice, as long as the Garda can show proof oof postage.

Whatever you do OP, do not listen to the advice from cpoh1.....!!

Seth Brundle

k_mac wrote: »

Common misconception. I see them quoting that crap on Indymedia all the time. The only law that requires the Garda to be wearing uniform is Section 91 of the Road Traffic Act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0091.html#zza24y1961s91

Its in relation to directing traffic for a major event.

You really went to the effort of disproving a post about getting my advice from a drunk person???

cpoh1 wrote: »

Are we here to judge the guy or help him out? I am suggesting the above because i want to help him avoid his fine and points. I have no problem in saying I have no morality when it comes to this type of stuff.

I can't speak for the others but the rules of the forum prohibit advice that encourages people to intentionally break the law.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Can you tell me what happened to the speeding fine i ignored two years ago then? I was in court recently and there were more than 20 people getting away with fines due to this. I would join that bandwagon in an instant.

I presumed he was referring to your advice for the OP to perjure themselves.

k_mac wrote: »

Probably all prosecuted by the same garda who didn't turn up. Most likely the fine was from a fixed camera somewhere. Not many Gardaí miss their court dates anymore.

There are very few (if any) fixed cameras in use - most of the original 22 fixed cameras have been removed or vandalised.

Seth Brundle

drkpower wrote: »

And the Road Traffic Act 2010 (when enacted) will remove any and all doubt in this area by requiring the Defendant to prove he did not receive a fixed notice, as long as the Garda can show proof oof postage.

I'm not familiar with the proposed act and ask only to see if there is a way but how does one prove that they didn't receive a letter?

MagicSean

kbannon wrote: »

You really went to the effort of disproving a post about getting my advice from a drunk person???
I can't speak for the others but the rules of the forum prohibit advice that encourages people to intentionally break the law.
I presumed he was referring to your advice for the OP to perjure themselves.
There are very few (if any) fixed cameras in use - most of the original 22 fixed cameras have been removed or vandalised.

I already knew the legislation. No effort required.

And by fixed cameras I was also including the ones in the vans, of which there are aproximately 10 in regular use.

SC024

dellas1979 wrote: »

I'd be annoyed that Id to pay e80 for my own stupid mistake. I wouldnt be annoyed at the garda for doing his job. Why he said e40, I dont know. Heck, maybe he was confused - maybe he was going to write you up for something else-who knows.

It was a mistake, but in all essence yours was dangerous one. What if someone walking along that piece of road stepped off a footpath not looking around because he wasnt expecting a car to be coming down that direction of a one way street? Would you blame them for not looking around?

Id take the fine, learn a lesson and try be a bit more observant and thankful nothing else happened.

And lets be honest, most people here are not on their high horses. They probably cant get their head around why the OP is contesting this.

Would it be their fault? Hell.. Of course it would.... You should always look around regardless of it being one way or another....

drkpower

kbannon wrote: »

I'm not familiar with the proposed act and ask only to see if there is a way but how does one prove that they didn't receive a letter?

Good question! Perhaps if An Post could show you that the letter was lost in the local sorting office, or that a postal strike occurred at the time or if your neighbour gives evidence to show they received it in error or something of that nature......?

But it is there in the Bill. Section 34.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/6509/b6509d.pdf

leroy_brown

leroy_brown wrote: »

Nothing careless

Hi OP, regardless of how safely you were driving I would strongly advice that you pay the fine and take the points. If it goes to court the judge will view you driving the wrong way down a one way street as careless. I wouldn't fancy trying to argue my case in your position. The two points should have no effect on your insurance

MagicSean

drkpower wrote: »

Good question! Perhaps if An Post could show you that the letter was lost in the local sorting office, or that a postal strike occurred at the time or if your neighbour gives evidence to show they received it in error or something of that nature......?

But it is there in the Bill. Section 34.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/6509/b6509d.pdf

It does place it in line with civil law. In civil law the postal rule deems a letter received if it can be proved to be sent.

CharlieCroker

OP, you seem to think you can appeal this fine because
a) the Garda in question didn't tell you what section of the RTA was being used? It doesn't matter. He can change his mind up to the second he issues an FCPS of Summons. You could have been issued with a fine for the one-way street, or for S.51a RTA (driving without reasonable consideration), S.52 (careless driving) or 53 (dangerous driving).

b) that you were told it was €40 and turned out to be €80 and 2 points. Again, its what is written on the ticket that matters!!

Would you be as upset if he told you that you were getting a €40 fine and then he decided not to fine you at all?

dellas1979

SC024 wrote: »

Would it be their fault? Hell.. Of course it would.... You should always look around regardless of it being one way or another....

Yeah, you should, in theory, but people generally dont - being a one way street.


The fact of the matter is is that if something like this happened, it would have been the drivers fault.

guil

k_mac wrote: »

Not many Gardaí miss their court dates anymore.

i had to go to court 3 times over a guard not turning up, it was struck out the third time, that was in november

MagicSean

guil wrote: »

i had to go to court 3 times over a guard not turning up, it was struck out the third time, that was in november

That's only one out of 13,000 or so.

MagicMarker

leroy_brown wrote: »

With both of the above in mind i am querying do i have a right to contest on this basis?

No.

delly

cpoh1 wrote: »

I dont need to check any of that, i have a solicitor sitting right next to me at the minute who is pissing herself laughing at the power of your misinformation on the internet. A summons needs to be proven to be delivered in ALL instances period, please cut out the rubbish in your posts :eek:

TJJP wrote: »

Someone needs a trip to the Law Library....

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-trial/summons

For non-payment of fixed charge fines
When you are issued with a fixed charge notice for a road traffic offence and you fail to pay the fine within the time allowed, a summons is automatically issued and sent to you by ordinary post. This process does not require a Garda to apply for the summons to be issued, because the summons is triggered by non-payment of the fixed charge fine.

Service of the summons

The rules which govern the service of summonses are to be found in the Rules of the District Court (Order 10). Basically a summons can be served on you in the following ways:

Personal delivery: by handing a copy of the summons to you or by leaving it at your last known abode or your place of work, or with your spouse, child or other relative.
Postal delivery: by ordinary or registered post to your last or most usual place of abode or to your place of business or employment.
Where service is affected by personal delivery, the summons must be served at least 7 days before the date fixed for your court case. In the case of registered post, the period is 21 days.

Haha, you've just got served. ZING!

MagicSean

delly wrote: »

Haha, you've just got served. ZING!

It certainly shut him up anyway.

k_mac

k_mac wrote: »

It certainly shut him up anyway.

lol, I wonder is his solicitor friend still laughing

Eric Cartman

more threads like this and were going to need taller stables

just pay the fine OP , dont fight it , unfortunatley the gard was having a bad day and you did go down the wrong way even if it was accidental, if you were driving the correct way up the street and somebody going the wrong way hit you i doubt youd be too sympathetic to them, you probably got off lucky considering the gard could have really got you for dangerous driving