What do you think about Irish cycle lanes?

monument

Somebody within a cycling advocacy group recently said to me that councils claim they never get complaints about the quality of cycle lanes.

So, what's the view of cycle lanes of everybody here?

Vote in the poll and post any other comments you might have. Thanks!

ALSO: If you are including comments please mention where about your commute is, or if it's on-road or off-road cycle track.

Empire o de Sun

I have yet to come across a decent cycle lane that shares space with a road. They are usually too narrow, and if they are more than 1 m wide someone usually parks in it. They are usually full of chippings too.

Cookie_Monster

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

They are usually full of chippings too.

and rocks and glass and all the other bits that get swept off the road.

many are stupidly short too.

10-10-20

This lark of running the cycle-lanes across the end of driveways so that they undulate is a complete joke (Leopardstown Rd, Leopardstown Racecourse to N11).
I have to go onto the road to avoid it, so end up getting beeped by some lamer in a vehicle (usually a Merc) too big for the lanes.

KevR

In Galway, I cycled Westside-Ballybrit (12km return journey) everyday for 5 years. Thousands of kilometres cycled, no accidents or near misses. There is a cycle path almost all the way (not a cycle lane, a path which is segregated from the road). It's really brilliant - I felt totally safe and didn't have to worry about the high speed traffic except when moving through junctions.

As for broken glass and stuff like that on the cycle path - I only saw it the odd time. I think I only got a couple of punctures in 5 years which is not bad.

tomasrojo

I posted this over on the Cycling forum. It more properly belongs here.

--

I hate them with a passion. My heart sinks when I see work beginning to add them to a perfectly usable road, as I know I'm going to start being harrassed by busybodies when I don't use them and I know I'm going to have to proceed very slowly when I do use them.

Nevertheless, I have only contacted Dublin City Council once on the subject, and it was just to tell them that they might reconsider the design of the two-way/contraflow on Inchicore Road, because it was encroached upon by buses and speeding cars so much, as well as being parked on all the time. They said that they'd sent an engineer and he's seen no speeding, no encroachment and no parking. Anyone familiar with the area will know he wasn't trying very hard.

After that, I never bothered again. I mean, why bother when you'll just be told that they know better than you?

sumone

In the draft final report of the of the Review of Cycling in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown (produced by the council) the section on Leopardstown Road from Leopardstown Heights to the N11 says:

The newer measures show how poorly cyclists can be considered in new build. They also demonstrate both the lack of adequate understanding of cyclists' needs and the benefits to be derived from the use of a thorough cycle audit that looks at both strategic and site specific issues.

Elsewhere in the same section it says:
nevertheless they demonstrate the lack of status of cyclists and the ease with which their needs are set aside

This reports is dated February last year. There are plenty of other critical comments, as well as pointing out some good facilities in the county.

Capt'n Midnight

The red tarmac at the side of the road with a dashed line is NOT a cycle lane

Cars can drive in them at all times
and cars can park in the a lot of times too , PITA getting stuck behind one when the other motorists won't let you out.

short circuit

D15 to Sandyford ... have cycle lane for 75% of the way.
Navan road is OK. Stonybater has none. Christ church is ok. Down to grand canal is fine. Canal itself and all the way to Sandyford is actually quite good. Phoenix park also is usually OK early in the morning. Evenings are a bit touch and miss depending on how many walkers claim the space.

In the evenings, Ranelagh is a disaster with cars parked with their hazards on ... I am going in for a wee bit excuses. Huntstown road in D15 is a disaster due to bad design.

So mixed bag there ...

Mint Sauce

couple near me, one along a section of main road outside sligo IT, a marked section, red tarmac, etc, roughly about 1/2 km long, seperated from the main road by kerb stones, wide enough for two lanes, but very poorly kept, full of weeds and debres, and often have to slow down due walkers even though there is also a seperate pavement there as well, i usally keep to the main road

also a shared lane around sligo race course, again here usally keep to the main road, bassically having to slow down for walkers who stray over the painted line into the cycling section

another couple of short shared sections on one or two of the approach roads to town but again, cycle in the road for above reasons

all my cycling (when doing it ) is road training/exercise

Cianos

The one thing I hate about cycle lanes in this country, (as every other country I've cycled in seems to have the care and attentiveness to deal with it) is the way they don't smooth down the curb where the path meets the road. Having to hop your bike up on to every path is cumbersome and slow. If there wasn't a need to do this, more people would cycle as it does take a fair bit of agility to avoid having to slow right down every time you are going from a road piece back on to the path via the ridge of the curb.

Breezer

The one in Donnybrook heading south towards UCD is lethal, literally. It was stuck into an existing traffic lane, which was already fairly narrow, and takes up nearly half the lane. It's also not even marked out with purple paint, just a broken white line.

The last time I used it (in broad daylight, wearing a bright yellow cycling jacket), I was knocked off my bike by a van driver who didn't move out far enough into the second lane. I fell into the middle of the road, and had there been anything behind the van (a 46a bus for example) I could have been seriously injured or killed.

Disgrace.

BostonB

If I post here I'm just duplicating what I'd posted in the cycling forum.

In summary though, some lanes are ok. But the majority are done so poorly as to be unusable.

smackyB

Breezer wrote: »

The one in Donnybrook heading south towards UCD is lethal, literally. It was stuck into an existing traffic lane, which was already fairly narrow, and takes up nearly half the lane. It's also not even marked out with purple paint, just a broken white line.

The last time I used it (in broad daylight, wearing a bright yellow cycling jacket), I was knocked off my bike by a van driver who didn't move out far enough into the second lane. I fell into the middle of the road, and had there been anything behind the van (a 46a bus for example) I could have been seriously injured or killed.

Disgrace.

Yeh, Donnybrook is very dangerous for cyclists. I try to avoid it as much as possible. Northbound is equally bad, some nasty potholes near the pedestrian lights there.

doozerie

Also a repeat of what I've written in the cycling forum but I believe that, on balance, cycle lanes are a bad idea. There isn't any option in the poll above to express that though so I've opted for the "generally very poor" option which is the closest of the options to my preferred vote of "please get rid of them".

There are some cycle lanes that happen to be located where I'd position me+bike on the road anyway and in those cases I end up simply using them by default. Those lanes do offer some benefit to me as they provide at least some visual cues to other road users to expect a cyclist on that stretch of road. However, those lanes are vastly outnumbered by lanes that: place me on the inside of a left-only turning lane regardless of the fact that I may be going straight on; place me on the outer lane of a roundabout regardless of which exit I wish to take; place me on a shared footpath, with bus stops, where pedestrians don't expect to encounter bikes; take me away from the main road down a side road where I now have to cross as a pedestrian before rejoining the main road again; take me away from the lane that I'd need to be in in order to make a right turn safely; etc.

The benefits of the minority of useful cycle tracks do not come close to outweighing the risks posed to me by other road users automatically assuming that I'll never be anywhere on the road other than in the cycle lane. I believe there is more awareness of, and hopefully as a consequence more consideration for, other road users by both cyclists and drivers alike where cycle lanes are not present.

CramCycle

The majority of lanes I use on the way out to Tallaght are covered in glass or have cracks so deep and potholes so large that staying atop your bike is impossible. There is the odd stretch of really good laneway but it can't make up for the danger imposed by the really dodgy areas. The stretch near Nutgrove doesn't have the pavement lower to let you cycle across junctions so it's quite a hefty drop if your not prepared for it. The N11 itself is slightly better heading away from town but again junctions aren't laid out well often forcing you to stop on a green light. On the way back into town there are sections with so many driveways that, unless on a MTB, that IMO if you were to try a reasonable speed you would be flung off your bike.

I'll use a cycle lane if it's in good condition but unless I can tell, I stay away, it's not worth the risk to me or my bike.

Zoney

The main issues I've encountered on the minimal cycle lanes on the Castletroy side of Limerick are pedestrians, debris and junctions (although these are not frequent on the relevant sections so not as much an issue). The segregated lanes themselves are generally a good standard and allow a less tense cycling experience, plus you can bypass traffic jams that realistically you can't safely bypass (except by footpath) if in them on the road.

Two noteworthy potential death-traps (no incidents yet though to my knowledge). First: where the cycle lane cuts across a petrol station entrance after the Groody bridge (not good as a pedestrian either - if it is solid traffic one will often have to just cross and trust drivers will indicate/slow to turn). Second: where a road-marking cycle lane continues from the segregated lane on the Plassey Park Road to the University West Gate entrance. A "cycle lane" for proceeding along PPR (rather than into Uni) is painted diagonally across the left filter lane for traffic entering Uni, just after the crest of a hill too, to proceed sandwiched between two traffic lanes to the traffic lights (which bizarrely have no far-side lights, so both cyclists and front car driver have to crane their neck over their shoulder to watch the lights).

I've not much experience of the combined cycle/bus lane in Raheen, but when I've cycled it, it feels less safe than ordinary road arrangements. This upgraded "urban route" also feels less safe by car too since the upgrade. Very messy with turning lanes at lights/roundabouts, lane merges and people having to right or left turn into businesses (either undertaking in the bus lane or holding up traffic, previously the road was as wide with just a dashed line in the middle - traffic could easily bypass those turning into places).

Nevyn

Where is the option to say that I don't use the cos they are dangerous?

opinion guy

Irish cycle Lanes ??????

AHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

o wait - do you mean those death zones in the bus lanes ?

cmanracer

- Surfaces are appalling - the top layer is broken more often than not. Manhole covers right through the middle of the lane where we are supposed to cycle. Road surfaces are mostly better than cycle lane surfaces. Even on roads, the manhole covers seem to be right where the cyclist is going to plant his wheels

- They are seldom (if ever) properly swept. Broken glass, rubble from the road, lethal leaves during the Autumn, etc

- I love the way the bus lanes have been reduced in size to fit in a cycle lane. I havent seen the new buses that fit into the reduced width yet. Looking forward to that

- The cycle lane design whereby you can sweep past the opening door of a bus is just spectacular in its incompetence. The other great thing about this design is of course having to wade through a queue for the bus!

- Rumble strips on the cycle lane near Loughlinstown roundabout. And I will shake myself to bits cycling over them rather than going a couple metres to the left/right onto the path? Like hell I will

- Should be a seamless join on entry / exit to cycle lanes - not a lip or as in some instances the grand canyon. Using a mountain bike on my daily 28 mile commute is not an option but my road bike gets rattled to bits

- Cycle lanes dont exist where they are most needed - on narrower city roads

- They just end! Where do I go now?

Bill2673

I'd also be of the view that there are really very few cycle lanes here. The red bits of road that cars drive through and buses pull into are not cycle lanes, or they are in name only.

I wonder is there any international cycling group that vets cycle lanes, and could tell us what we already know i.e. about 5% of the so-called cycle lanes in Dublin are safe.

For example Constitution Hill, biggest joke of a bike lane, it is basically 1/3rd of the LHS car lane. The cars can't drive on the car lane without driving also in the bike lane. Its not the drivers fault, its not the cyclists fault.

PS one thing that really gets me......the canals....why are there no decent cycle lanes on them? They would be perfect. On the Royal Canal for examply, there is a very good path as far as Phibsboro, great for cycling. I cycle this frequently but never see other commuters. But it ends at Phibsboro, why not carry on as far as Blanch? The roll out cost for this would be the same as about 20 metres of the poxy luas line that goes from Busarus to the Point Depot, or 3 poles on the fancy new bridge across the liffey.

For great bike lanes, please see Copenhagen.

patrickbrophy18

It is often the case where I see a cycle lane and bus lane merged as is the case with The Rock Road QBC. In fact, the "so-called" bus lanes on The Rock Road QBC are often narrower than the bus vehicles themeselves. It often ends with a situation where the bus takes up the cycle lane as well as the bus lane to compensate for lost dedicated road space. Another note to add is that I frequently see bicycles holding up buses which I find incredibly frustrating. If a cyclist knows that there is a bus behind him/her, they should move aside to allow the bus to pass them out and not get in the way. A bicycle is clearly much slower than a bus and therefore cyclists who take to the middle of bus lanes should consider the fact that they are being an inconvenience to commuters and bus drivers alike.

Dyr

I think that those cyclists who use the imaginary cycle lanes on footpaths need sorting out.

Bill2673

Bambi, Patrick...

You may well be right.....but that has damn all to do with this conversation about cycle lanes. (Except for the fact that if there were proper cycle lanes, neither of those problems would arise!!!!!)

patrickbrophy18

Bill2673 wrote: »

Bambi, Patrick...

You may well be right.....but that has damn all to do with this conversation about cycle lanes. (Except for the fact that if there were proper cycle lanes, neither of those problems would arise!!!!!)

Being a little hostile there don't you think?

paulm17781

Bill2673 wrote: »

(Except for the fact that if there were proper cycle lanes, neither of those problems would arise!!!!!)

I dispute that! As a cyclist, I have noticed an incredible thing in our (seemingly all Irish people) mentality. For some unknowing reason, pedestrians love to walk in cycle lanes and cyclists love to cycle on footpaths. This is most noticeable where the footpath is divided between cyclists / pedestrians.

I've seen cyclists on the footpath bit go into the cycle lane to avoid a pedestrian, then go right back to the footpath once past. Likewise, it's rare I cycle down a cycle lane and pedestrians aren't walking on it with an empty footpath beside them. I honestly can't work out why this is.

Jackasaurus rex

Its been a while since i cycled but the one i thought was crap was as you go pat st vincents school towards Glasnevin Cemetery and the cars and buslane/cycle lane bottleneck, then you get put on the footpath only to be taken doen and put back up by way of the ramp the cars use to drive into the garage, utter ****

dolliemix

The cycle lane in Ranelagh always has cars parked on it.

The cycle lane on Nutgrove avenue needs to be resurfaced.

Cars use the cycle lane on Grange Road.

Cycle lanes on the canal are great.

The easiest part of my commute is the Churchtown Road, where there are no cycle lanes. Because the road is so narrow, cars have to stay behind me, until the oncoming traffic is clear. Touch wood I've never had a bad experience here, as I think motorists have more patience when they see that you have nowhere else to go.

In the areas where there are cycle lanes, motorists feel you should be on them and nowhere else, unaware that there may be a parked car coming up, or potholes or glass.

I find as a result I have to be more careful in areas where there are cycle lanes because motorists lose patience and are more inclined to overtake you at close range.

So, it's not necessarily the lanes themselves, but motorists attitude to them thats the problem.

Bill2673

Patrick, yes I was being a little hostile, but only a little (imho).....apologies if you found it too strong.

Bill2673

paulm17781 wrote: »

I dispute that! As a cyclist, I have noticed an incredible thing in our (seemingly all Irish people) mentality. For some unknowing reason, pedestrians love to walk in cycle lanes and cyclists love to cycle on footpaths. This is most noticeable where the footpath is divided between cyclists / pedestrians.

I've seen cyclists on the footpath bit go into the cycle lane to avoid a pedestrian, then go right back to the footpath once past. Likewise, it's rare I cycle down a cycle lane and pedestrians aren't walking on it with an empty footpath beside them. I honestly can't work out why this is.

Paul, my point would be, on a proper cycle lane this would not arise. A proper cycle in my view should have small borders on either side that stop cars driving into it and stop cyclists moving on to the footpath.

Zoney

Here's the situation outside University of Limerick West Gate that I mentioned upthread:

Merge. Only signage is a blue cycle lane sign just behind where this shot was taken (no "merge" warning for cyclists or motorists):


"Special" traffic lights - note the absence of far side signals for motorists too nevermind cyclists waiting in the red box:


These are from 2006 but the same layout still applies today.

ED E

Problems with cycle lanes in Ireland(Dublin):
****ty surfaces(eg Braemor Road), the stuff just crumbles
Cars block them all, all the time
They cross bustops (Nutgrove Ave)
They are in between The path and the road making it impossible to judge which light to use
Potholes all over the shop
Sharp ramps that wreck your wheel
Ramps that make you do a 90* turn on a main road to get onto the lane
Endings with no ramp(Knocklyon M50 Interchange)
Signs in the middle of the lane
No interconnectivity
More potholes
Lanes that end in the middle of a roundabout(Beside grange golf course)
Badly covered works, ESB/BordGais/NTL/Other just lob on some tarmac and leave

Think that kind of explains why there is so much anguish associated with them. I know what I'll be asking canvasers. Whats the point of the B2W scheme if you'll arrive with a concussion and three limbs:mad:

Lethal.

dolliemix

Zoney wrote: »

Here's the situation outside University of Limerick West Gate that I mentioned upthread:

Merge. Only signage is a blue cycle lane sign just behind where this shot was taken (no "merge" warning for cyclists or motorists):


"Special" traffic lights - note the absence of far side signals for motorists too nevermind cyclists waiting in the red box:


These are from 2006 but the same layout still applies today.

Thats looks really scary!!

Disaster

ED E

dolliemix wrote: »

The easiest part of my commute is the Churchtown Road

I live on Lower Churchtown Road and you're right. On upper they are stuck behind you and once onto lower there is plenty of passing space. But, be very careful at night, little skoda scum like to use it as a race track as there is only one bend from the lights to the bottom of the hill at the dropping well.

dolliemix

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

It is often the case where I see a cycle lane and bus lane merged as is the case with The Rock Road QBC. In fact, the "so-called" bus lanes on The Rock Road QBC are often narrower than the bus vehicles themeselves. It often ends with a situation where the bus takes up the cycle lane as well as the bus lane to compensate for lost dedicated road space. Another note to add is that I frequently see bicycles holding up buses which I find incredibly frustrating. If a cyclist knows that there is a bus behind him/her, they should move aside to allow the bus to pass them out and not get in the way. A bicycle is clearly much slower than a bus and therefore cyclists who take to the middle of bus lanes should consider the fact that they are being an inconvenience to commuters and bus drivers alike.

If you let the bus go ahead of you...then it stops at a bus stop, you're stuck behind it again.....and so the journey goes.....

Cyclists are commuters are they not?

I don't think Bill 2673 was being harsh. He was just explaining things from the cyclists point of view

defitzi

:eek: wot cycle lanes? All Ireland hates cycle lanes- the peasants all hate cyclists now they have motors. a peasant on a horse is still a peasant! :cool:

defitzi

:cool:wot cycle lanes? Now the hoi-polloi have motors, all-Ireland hates cyclists but: a peasant on a horse is still a peasant...and a bully! :D:D

blorg

Bambi wrote: »

I think that those cyclists who use the imaginary cycle lanes on footpaths need sorting out.

I agree, don't cycle on a footpath. Unless there is a bit of red paint on it. That makes it magically safe to do so.

paulm17781

Bill2673 wrote: »

Paul, my point would be, on a proper cycle lane this would not arise. A proper cycle in my view should have small borders on either side that stop cars driving into it and stop cyclists moving on to the footpath.

Yes, I agree with this. I would (genuinely) fear that even if they were cordoned off, people would still walk in them and then not be able to get out of the way. There is also the likelyhood of people cycling in the wrong direction. While I agree we need better (real) cycle lanes. They seem to be a concept that Irish people don't quite grasp.

patrickbrophy18

dolliemix wrote: »

Thats looks really scary!!

Disaster

It looks like an accident waiting to happen. What happens if the cyclist and the driver accidentally cross paths?

WHAT A MESS!:D

patrickbrophy18

dolliemix wrote: »

If you let the bus go ahead of you...then it stops at a bus stop, you're stuck behind it again.....and so the journey goes.....

Cyclists are commuters are they not?

I don't think Bill 2673 was being harsh. He was just explaining things from the cyclists point of view

I always associated the word commuter as meaning a passenger inside a vessel such as a plane, bus, train or to a certain extent a car. I will admit that if a cycle lane is going to be provide that it is built in a satisfactory way in which the bus and cycle lanes are completely separate where there is at least 2 meters of clearance between the bus and the bicycle.

Bill2673

As a matter of interest:

Would cyclists prefer if the 'Cycle Lanes' (i.e. the red paint) was simply not there at all. Would it make things better or worse if it was removed.

Since lets face it, we'll never have decent cycle lanes, its too far down the priority list for govt/ voters.

blorg

Bill2673 wrote: »

As a matter of interest:

Would cyclists prefer if the 'Cycle Lanes' (i.e. the red paint) was simply not there at all. Would it make things better or worse if it was removed.

Since lets face it, we'll never have decent cycle lanes, its too far down the priority list for govt/ voters.

Personally, generally, yes, I'd prefer not to have them at all. That way you could just use the road without drivers getting angry with you.

dolliemix

Bill2673 wrote: »

As a matter of interest:

Would cyclists prefer if the 'Cycle Lanes' (i.e. the red paint) was simply not there at all. Would it make things better or worse if it was removed.

Since lets face it, we'll never have decent cycle lanes, its too far down the priority list for govt/ voters.

I like cycle lanes.

The problem is

1. they are not being cleaned up or fixed after bad weather/ engineering works etc

2. Other road users don't see them as cycling lanes and use them to overtake/ park etc so it's difficult to get a free run on a cycle lane in Dublin anyway

jaqian

Bill2673 wrote: »

PS one thing that really gets me......the canals....why are there no decent cycle lanes on them? They would be perfect. On the Royal Canal for examply, there is a very good path as far as Phibsboro, great for cycling. I cycle this frequently but never see other commuters. But it ends at Phibsboro, why not carry on as far as Blanch? The roll out cost for this would be the same as about 20 metres of the poxy luas line that goes from Busarus to the Point Depot, or 3 poles on the fancy new bridge across the liffey.

For great bike lanes, please see Copenhagen.

Thats my regular route cut across Tolka Valley (no cycle lanes) to Broombridge in Cabra and then down to Des Kelly's on the Glasnevin Road. Not too sure if cycling is even permitted on the canal as no signs/lanes etc.

The only cycle lanes I come across on my route is Berkley Road and O'Connell Street, they are very narrow but their condition is okay. Would prefer no cycle lane as cars come too close thinking they've enough room.

As regards extending cycle lane to Blanch you'd first have to move the cluster of scumbags on the canal beside Campbell's Bridge. Wouldn't cycle past them, you'd get pushed in.

Cookie_Monster

dolliemix wrote: »

Thats looks really scary!!

Disaster

i can't see anything wrong with that tbh.

Cookie_Monster

Bill2673 wrote: »

As a matter of interest:

Would cyclists prefer if the 'Cycle Lanes' (i.e. the red paint) was simply not there at all. Would it make things better or worse if it was removed.

Since lets face it, we'll never have decent cycle lanes, its too far down the priority list for govt/ voters.

i don't like that red paint at all. it breaks up and goes crumbily very quickly.

i head from someone in DCC that its €30 a metre to paint also :eek:

Bill2673

jaqian wrote: »

Thats my regular route cut across Tolka Valley (no cycle lanes) to Broombridge in Cabra and then down to Des Kelly's on the Glasnevin Road. Not too sure if cycling is even permitted on the canal as no signs/lanes etc.

The only cycle lanes I come across on my route is Berkley Road and O'Connell Street, they are very narrow but their condition is okay. Would prefer no cycle lane as cars come too close thinking they've enough room.

As regards extending cycle lane to Blanch you'd first have to move the cluster of scumbags on the canal beside Campbell's Bridge. Wouldn't cycle past them, you'd get pushed in.

Same deal with where the path goes under the bridges near Croke Park and in Ballybough......always a bit ropey when the locals are out drinking cans of cider there. To be honest they seem harmless enough, but you never do know....

bigar

They are really on par with general road conditions: very bad. Potholes, unlevel surfaces and some high ramps make it very hard to travel comfortably in and around Dublin.

Also many seem to end very sudden or are not connected to other cycle lanes a bit further on.

Plus of course that many people seem to think they are actually parking lanes.

tomasrojo

dolliemix wrote: »

I like cycle lanes.

The problem is

1. they are not being cleaned up or fixed after bad weather/ engineering works etc

2. Other road users don't see them as cycling lanes and use them to overtake/ park etc so it's difficult to get a free run on a cycle lane in Dublin anyway

I've been watching the spread of cycle lanes for over twenty years in Ireland. The issues you raise will never be resolved, I'm afraid to say. There is no will to maintain them or design them properly. There has never been an acknowledgement that without very clever design they make junctions far more dangerous and create major junctions for cyclists out of driveways and sideroads. There has never been an acknowledgement that they need more maintenance than the road, because cars actually sweep the road clean with their tyres (but deposit all that debris on the margins of the road, including the cycle lanes). There is a head-in-the-sand attitude in all the councils, despite the promising Cycle Framework Document of last year.

We would be much better off with wide kerb lanes and no more cycle lanes. They invite close passes when they're on-road and make you more likely to collide with pedestrians and cars on driveways when they're off-road.

Cyclist.ie on their website list cycle lanes as the last measure that should be undertaken to help cyclists. It's no wonder they've adopted this attitude after the last twenty years.

Ash.J.Williams

As a motorist i have to say i often laugh to myself when i see a cycle lane along a stretch of road and the car lane is actually not big enough for a car....it's as bad as the new traffic lights that have a red and a green on at the same time.