Cyclists on the roads

peasant

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

I do have a problem with the times when I know its safe to pass and some cyclist (who possibly doesnt know how to drive) decides that its not safe. The cyclist doesnt have the right to make that call. If a cyclist continues to feel unsafe on the road then maybe the road isnt the place for him/her

On that point I would agree with you

glic71rods46t0

Anan1 wrote: »

I thought my post was clear, but it looks as though i'll have to spell it out. marious cannot prevent other drivers from entering bends too fast, but he can learn to negotiate bends safely himself. Clear enough?:)

pretty lame ... i thought with the length of time that had elapsed since the comment that you were going to taking the beating like a man and move on ... lame, lame, come back:pac:
p.s. the point related to cyclists taking the middle of the lane - or have you forgotten?

robinph

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

The Rules of the Road dont give "rights" to anyone but they bestow responsibilities on all those who wish to use the roads. One is that slow moving vehicles must pull in to allow other traffic to progress! So one expects cyclists to pull in to allow traffic to progress on the road - its not rocket science!

So your ideal situation would be for cyclists to pull over and get off the road every time that a car driver comes up behind them, or are cyclists permitted to continue to progress along the road without stopping? If they are allowed to continue to progress along the road then they are also allowed to determine where the safest position for them to be on that road is. When it's a safer section to overtake, then do so.

The sections regarding pulling in to allow other traffic to progress will be in relation to the likes of tractors, such as the one mentioned earlier in the thread, and them pulling over at a suitable point to allow traffic to pass. There will more than likely be a safe passing place to get past a cyclist very soon, opportunities to pass the likes of a tractor will be less common.

We're only on about you being held up by a cyclist for about 30seconds at most anyway.

Henry Ford III

Anan1 wrote: »

.....but there are stupid people in all walks of life (and on all modes of transport.;)).

Absolutely true.

p.s. I'd still be happier with a poorly behaved cyclist on the road instead of the pavement though.

robinph

marious wrote: »

Am I suppose to drive behind them till they go off the road?

how are U overtaking other cars or tractor ????

You are supposed to drive behind the cyclist until it is safe to both them and yourself to overtake them.

Surely you overtake cars and tractors in the same way, when it is safe to do so?

glic71rods46t0

robinph wrote: »

So your ideal situation would be for cyclists to pull over and get off the road every time that a car driver comes up behind them, or are cyclists permitted to continue to progress along the road without stopping? If they are allowed to continue to progress along the road then they are also allowed to determine where the safest position for them to be on that road is. When it's a safer section to overtake, then do so.

The sections regarding pulling in to allow other traffic to progress will be in relation to the likes of tractors, such as the one mentioned earlier in the thread, and them pulling over at a suitable point to allow traffic to pass. There will more than likely be a safe passing place to get past a cyclist very soon, opportunities to pass the likes of a tractor will be less common.

We're only on about you being held up by a cyclist for about 30seconds at most anyway.

The principle is the same for a tractor or a bicycle - remember a bicycle is a slow moving vehicle just the same - the law makes no distinction - you seem to be making a distinction in your head!
You have no idea how long a motorist can be held up by cyclists - so your blanket assumption of at most 30 seconds is complete rubbish

Heroditas

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Cyclists have the foresight to believe in sustainability

What will happen when we run out of oil in a few years

Straw man

robinph

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

The principle is the same for a tractor or a bicycle - remember a bicycle is a slow moving vehicle just the same - the law makes no distinction - you seem to be making a distinction in your head!
You have no idea how long a motorist can be held up by cyclists - so your blanket assumption of at most 30 seconds is complete rubbish

I presume your not expecting a tractor to stop and let you pass the moment you come up behind them. You wait until there is a turning or gate or wider section of the road, at which point they will generally pull in to the side and then you can get past and if there is a big queue they will most likely wait until they have all passed.

Why should a cyclist though be expected to stop on the side of the road for you though? They are entitled to continue along the road, and then when it is safer for you to overtake you can do so, behind a cyclist though that safer section will probably come along a lot sooner than the point at which the tractor will be able to pull over and stop to let you pass.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Jumpy

Guys.

This is a thread started with intention to flame.

"Fencer" is a re-reg of a user called "TimAllen" who is a known troll on the cycling forum.

Since his threads there now get locked he has moved here to try to get his jollies with flame threads.

Be aware you are all feeding a troll.

Anan1

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

pretty lame ... i thought with the length of time that had elapsed since the comment that you were going to taking the beating like a man and move on ... lame, lame, come back:pac:
p.s. the point related to cyclists taking the middle of the lane - or have you forgotten?

You might want to make your points in a civil manner if you hope to remain around here to post.

Jumpy

Some previous posts by Fencer/TimAllen

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64798477
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055453511
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055755680
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055725063
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055440585
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055761053

glic71rods46t0

Anan1 wrote: »

You might want to make your points in a civil manner if you hope to remain around here to post.

never meant to be anything other than civil - the smiley might have put some context on the remark?
In any case I was just highlighting the fact that you came back with a comment that ignored the comment where you made the faux paus - which was disingenuous and, now you seem to be putting the mod hat back on with the inferred threat of a ban just because you lost the point! - Not very sporting:eek:

Anan1

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

never meant to be anything other than civil - the smiley might have put some context on the remark?
In any case I was just highlighting the fact that you came back with a comment that ignored the comment where you made the faux paus - which was disingenuous and, now you seem to be putting the mod hat back on with the inferred threat of a ban just because you lost the point! - Not very sporting:eek:

I'm sorry, gjt58dl06hpzbs, but I really do have better things to be doing on a Bank Holiday weekend than dealing with the likes of this. Given that your sole intent appears to be trolling i'm going to ban you for a day while I have a chat with the other mods. I'm leaving this thread open, as some good points are being made. I do, however, expect all posters to contribute in a civil manner.

stellarartois

So whats a cage driver then?

John_Rambo

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Keep it in the middle!

Your nuts. I can't reiterate how nuts your are with that attitude. (I don't mean to insult you, but just let you know how dangerous you are to yourself) I worked as a cycle courier, I don't mean prancing around in day glow lycra in good weather, I mean city cycling, grime, oily roads, rain, trucks (back then) buses, taxis...

Your attitude is all well and good typing away there, but in reality there is nothing between you and the tarmac, nothing between you and the car. Cycling in the middle of the road for the sake of it is just going to frustrate people and force them to take actions that might be a bit dangerous. They might scrape their bumper, but believe me you will come out worse.

There are

Inexperienced learner drivers
Drunk drivers
Drugged drivers, half on pharmacy drugs, but still off their minds
Elderly drivers
Fatigued drivers
Drivers texting
Drivers fooking around with their phones
Drivers on calls
Drivers who are driving one the left for the first time in their lives
Drivers who basically can't drive

So, before you learn the worst lesson you will ever learn in your life, I would cop on, loose the attitude and be as safe as you can.

Take it from an ex "pro cyclist"

CramCycle

stellarartois wrote: »

So whats a cage driver then?

Cage - A car, truck, or van. The sworn enemy of motorcyclists, more commonly known as automobiles. The name stems from being all cooped up inside a closed shell, with no contact with the outside air.

Cager - A person driving a car, truck, or van. Cage operator, or driver.

So a cage driver is just a car/bus/HGV driver etc.

taken from [HTML]http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/C.htm[/HTML]

monument

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

Rules of the Road - you should consider purchasing a copy if you intend to use public roads - its very informative and could help keep you safe and out of trouble:cool:

The Rules of the Road are online.

Although I often wish I had printed copies to hand out to both cyclists and motorists -- most often when I'm a pedestrian and both groups haven't a clue of pedestrians' right of way at junctions without ped lights (but that's another day's work).

Here's the rules for cyclists, could you now point out where it says cyclists must do what you were saying?

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/index.html

monument

John_Rambo wrote: »

Your nuts. I can't reiterate how nuts your are with that attitude. (I don't mean to insult you, but just let you know how dangerous you are to yourself) I worked as a cycle courier, I don't mean prancing around in day glow lycra in good weather, I mean city cycling, grime, oily roads, rain, trucks (back then) buses, taxis...

Your attitude is all well and good typing away there, but in reality there is nothing between you and the tarmac, nothing between you and the car. Cycling in the middle of the road for the sake of it is just going to frustrate people and force them to take actions that might be a bit dangerous. They might scrape their bumper, but believe me you will come out worse.

There are

Inexperienced learner drivers
Drunk drivers
Drugged drivers, half on pharmacy drugs, but still off their minds
Elderly drivers
Fatigued drivers
Drivers texting
Drivers fooking around with their phones
Drivers on calls
Drivers who are driving one the left for the first time in their lives
Drivers who basically can't drive

So, before you learn the worst lesson you will ever learn in your life, I would cop on, loose the attitude and be as safe as you can.

Take it from an ex "pro cyclist"

First, I think he means middle of the lane, not the middle of the road. The genrally advice is this is not something that should be done all the time, but should be done where a lane is too small for a car to overtake you within the lane.

Read Cycle Craft, see: http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

Cyclecraft is closely associated with Bikeability, the National Cycle Training Standard, for which it is the recommended course book and required reading by cycle training instructors. This edition of Cyclecraft has been thoroughly revised and extended, in part to reflect experience gained through implementation of the National Standard.


The author of Cyclecraft, John Franklin, is a consultant and registered Expert Witness on cycling skills and safety and was a member of the reference group that set up the National Standard.

And, no offence, but a cycle courier -- current or past -- is usually the last person I'd be asking about safety advice. But maybe you cycled differently than most couriers out there?

stellarartois

CramCycle wrote: »

Cage - A car, truck, or van. The sworn enemy of motorcyclists, more commonly known as automobiles. The name stems from being all cooped up inside a closed shell, with no contact with the outside air.

Cager - A person driving a car, truck, or van. Cage operator, or driver.

So a cage driver is just a car/bus/HGV driver etc.

taken from [HTML]http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/dictionary/C.htm[/HTML]

Thanks seems like the word driver would do.

John_Rambo

monument wrote: »

First, I think he means middle of the lane, not the middle of the road

I know, I don't agree with it though, it just pisses people off and there are too many bad drivers out there to risk it, if you can let a car go by safely, do so, don't just block him cause you have a right to.

monument wrote: »

And, no offence, but a cycle courier -- current or past -- is usually the last person I'd be asking about safety advice. But maybe you cycled differently than most couriers out there?

And, none taken.

No, I took risks to make my money, but weirdly all of my big hits with vehicles were not my fault, although I did fall off the bike, nobody's fault but mine in this case.

Regarding taking advice? I was on the road every day, all day winter and summer, I'm still alive. Would you take advice on house security from a burglar? I would.

robinph

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know, I don't agree with it though, it just pisses people off and there are too many bad drivers out there to risk it, if you can let a car go by safely, do so, don't just block him cause you have a right to.

That is exactly what is being said. Let people pass when it is safe to do so, but don't put yourself at risk on the bicycle when it is not safe for another vehicle to pass.

tomasrojo

I didn't realise that Fencer was TimAllen, Übertroll.

I must say (though I doubt the incident happened as described, or perhaps at all) that the cyclist would appear to be at fault, as originally described. At the very least, if would be common courtesy to stop with the other traffic and let the driver finish reversing, I think.

The best part was reversing into a parking space yesterday, cars behind me stopped to let me complete my move when a cyclist comes through the inside of the line of cars and starts hitting my windows in a violent manner and calling me all sorts of names accusing me of not looking where I was going etc.

As I said, if Fencer is TimAllen, the incident may not have even happened.

Absurdum

this thread sucks major ass

joewicklow

Hi Everyone,

Im a long time lurker in both the Motors and Cycling Forums and have read this whole thread with a lot of interest. (Im involved in sales and would drive between 60 and 80,000kms per annum).
I live in a place called Ballyknockan in Wicklow, most weekend cyclists will know it because its on a pretty busy route which comes out from Dublin and circumnavigates Blessington Lakes before going back to Dublin.
Every weekend and during the longer summer evenings I pass cyclists on my way home from work or Blessington. In a lot of cases when they are riding two or more abreast they will pull in and let you past. There has been times where there has been 8 or 9 cyclists together and would not let me past (I have a photo of this on my work PC, if this thread is not locked by tomorrow I will post it). When these things happen I pass when I can, i dont wave or beep or make any rude gestures, life is too short.

About 4 weeks ago I bought a bike (Lapierre Audacio 400 for those interested). Most good evenings since I got the bike I have either cycled to Blessington and back or headed up the Wicklow Gap until my lungs give up and then I come back.
In the 15 or so trips I have made I have had about 6 incidents of what I would call dangerous driving or road rage. A couple of times I have been almost swiped by a passenger side mirror, there was plenty of room on both occasions for the car to safely pass me but whoever was driving thought it was fun as they beeped after passing. On another occasion I was slogging up the Wicklow Gap when a car went past and the passenger who had his window open let out a roar that scared the life out of me. I barely held on to the bike I got such a fright.

Its been many years since I was on a bike but I am by no means a learner. I did a lot of cycling in the past and am still pretty proficient. I keep to my side of the road and obey the rules.

In my opinion as a very high mileage car & van Driver and also as a Cyclist I have had a lot more issues with car drivers than with cyclists. This should be expected given the ratio of cars to bikes on the road.

There are bad apple Motorists on the road as well as bad apple Cyclists, would you believe here are also bad apple Priests and Guards and Doctors and even pedestrians who dare to jay walk!

I think we should all have a lttle more consideration for each other when we are on the road.

Joe.

Jumpy

stellarartois wrote: »

So whats a cage driver then?

It is a golf club used for the specific purpose of preventing Nicolas Cage from making another movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOi5cW5LXMY

buzzingnoise

a cyclist has the same rights as a car or bus driver if they are on the road.
If you "hit" or "clip" or "brush" a cyclist into the barrier/ditch/wall however they DIE or end up in The National Rehabilitation Centre.
Its not as simple as hitting another car, you cant sort this out through Quinn or Aviva insurance. It is something you will have to live with for the rest of your life.
So the next time you see a cyclist cycling down the middle of the road, be considerate, there might be potholes he can't avoid or glass that might puncture his tyres. they are doing their best to pull in, believe me. A few minutes of your time for a fellow road-user is not worth maiming or killing somebody's son or daughter, husband or wife over.
Could you live with the consequences?

levi

Decided to post a link to this leaflet from the Dept of Transport tells cyclists to cycle well away from the kerb... Just so you know that the Dept of Transport tells cyclists not to hug the kerb.

Just on the topic in general,

I'm a driver and a cyclist, I can see both sides but at the end of the day a cyclist is more vulnerable that a motorist - as a motorist I wouldn't like to live with having hurt someone just so I could get somewhere 5 minutes faster.

murphyebass

buzzingnoise wrote: »

a cyclist has the same rights as a car or bus driver if they are on the road.
If you "hit" or "clip" or "brush" a cyclist into the barrier/ditch/wall however they DIE or end up in The National Rehabilitation Centre.
Its not as simple as hitting another car, you cant sort this out through Quinn or Aviva insurance. It is something you will have to live with for the rest of your life.
So the next time you see a cyclist cycling down the middle of the road, be considerate, there might be potholes he can't avoid or glass that might puncture his tyres. they are doing their best to pull in, believe me. A few minutes of your time for a fellow road-user is not worth maiming or killing somebody's son or daughter, husband or wife over.
Could you live with the consequences?

if we were all as wonderful as you the world would be such a wonderful place. :rolleyes:

dirtydiesel

That's the thing though, too many drivers have no respect for anyone on the road no matter what form of transport they or the other road users are in or on.
As a regular driver of vans and trucks I see near misses and road rage incidents on an almost daily basis, being in high vehicles its often possible to spot a near miss in advance of it happening.
I try to respect other road users as best I can and when some fool does something stupid or dangerous I laugh at them(got this advice from a boardsie) instead of loosing my cool, It works better especially if they see you laughing at their stupidity.

yop

joewicklow wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Im a long time lurker in both the Motors and Cycling Forums and have read this whole thread with a lot of interest. (Im involved in sales and would drive between 60 and 80,000kms per annum).
I live in a place called Ballyknockan in Wicklow, most weekend cyclists will know it because its on a pretty busy route which comes out from Dublin and circumnavigates Blessington Lakes before going back to Dublin.
Every weekend and during the longer summer evenings I pass cyclists on my way home from work or Blessington. In a lot of cases when they are riding two or more abreast they will pull in and let you past. There has been times where there has been 8 or 9 cyclists together and would not let me past (I have a photo of this on my work PC, if this thread is not locked by tomorrow I will post it). When these things happen I pass when I can, i dont wave or beep or make any rude gestures, life is too short.

About 4 weeks ago I bought a bike (Lapierre Audacio 400 for those interested). Most good evenings since I got the bike I have either cycled to Blessington and back or headed up the Wicklow Gap until my lungs give up and then I come back.
In the 15 or so trips I have made I have had about 6 incidents of what I would call dangerous driving or road rage. A couple of times I have been almost swiped by a passenger side mirror, there was plenty of room on both occasions for the car to safely pass me but whoever was driving thought it was fun as they beeped after passing. On another occasion I was slogging up the Wicklow Gap when a car went past and the passenger who had his window open let out a roar that scared the life out of me. I barely held on to the bike I got such a fright.

Its been many years since I was on a bike but I am by no means a learner. I did a lot of cycling in the past and am still pretty proficient. I keep to my side of the road and obey the rules.

In my opinion as a very high mileage car & van Driver and also as a Cyclist I have had a lot more issues with car drivers than with cyclists. This should be expected given the ratio of cars to bikes on the road.

There are bad apple Motorists on the road as well as bad apple Cyclists, would you believe here are also bad apple Priests and Guards and Doctors and even pedestrians who dare to jay walk!

I think we should all have a lttle more consideration for each other when we are on the road.

Joe.

Agree with you there, been driving 13 years and bought a bike last May and have more "incidents" on the bike than I had in the previous 13 years.

In general the road users are spot on, I cycle on the main Westport to Castlebar road daily to work during the summer, there is no hard margin and since the roads are pants I am forced to be out 2 or 3 ft on the road.

BUT there are still too many toolboxes who haven't a clue about how to behave on the road, and I apply this to both drivers and cyclists.

Ireland still isn't used to cyclists but I think over the last few years they will have to get more used to it as with the bike to work scheme etc bikes will be more common on the road.

As for the OP, who I suspect is also marious (due to each posting within a few mins of each other) I reckon you are just trolling.
IF you are not then chill out a wee bit, with the way you are going on about cyclists I suspect that you would also transfer this attitude to other drivers.

stellarartois

Jumpy wrote: »

It is a golf club used for the specific purpose of preventing Nicolas Cage from making another movie.

Is that supposed to be funny?

Anan1

Absurdum wrote: »

this thread sucks major ass

murphyebass wrote: »

if we were all as wonderful as you the world would be such a wonderful place. :rolleyes:

stellarartois wrote: »

Is that supposed to be funny?

If you've nothing constructive to add to the discussion then don't post at all - final warning.

chakattack

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

We agree to differ on the first part of point 1 I think.
However, the rules of the road and case law requires a slow moving vehicle (bicycles are so defined) to give way to traffic behind them. There was a case of a Mayo tractor driver who was brought to court for refusing to pull in with a build up of traffic behind him - it was in 2008, District Court conviction and reaffirmed on appeal to Circuit Court i.e. a court of record

If you look into the details of that case you'll find that it was on a main road over an unreasonably long distance. It does not set any sort of precedent that slower road users should immediately get out of your way.

There are numerous legitimate safety reasons why a cyclist may be in the middle of road and and the majority of drivers are able to handle such "obstacles" with a calm, patient, reasonable and safe approach.

You are in the minority of impatient drivers who act as if they are superior on the roads and everyone should get out of your way.

I think your interpretation of the rules of the road is wrong and that is why you're not getting much support on this thread.

concussion

gjt58dl06hpzbs wrote: »

Safer in their minds maybe, but against the rules of the road!

Now Tim, you claim that cycling two abreast is against the ROTR but you know well that this is not true, you've been told often enough on the Cycling Forum.

First of all, the ROTR say nothing whatsoever about cycling abreast. Secondly, and more importantly, the SI 182/1997 Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations state that cyclists can cycle two abreast and even three abreast if one cyclist is overtaking a pair cyling abreast.

On your original post, the cyclist in question was completely in the wrong but that's not good enough for you is it? On a general note, it's a bit sad that the main contention some idiots have for cyclists is about them cycling within the law (two abreast, out from the curb etc.) and not for breaking red lights or for not having lights at night.

fonecrusher1

Generally i have no problem with cyclists but when i see two or three clowns riding bikes one next to the other & not in single file it bugs me a little bit.
This usually means traffic coming up behind them has to make various manouvres to go around & inevitably slows things down & could potentially cause an accident as opposing traffic becomes bottle-necked.

95% of the time they do abide by the rules of the road though.

Theres plenty of us car drivers are eejits as well.

concussion

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

This usually means traffic coming up behind them has to make various manouvres to go around & inevitably slows things down & could potentially cause an accident as opposing traffic becomes bottle-necked.

That would be called 'overtaking' and it's up to the driver who is performing the manoeuvre to do so safely and correctly, not the cyclist in front.

robinph

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Generally i have no problem with cyclists but when i see two or three clowns riding bikes one next to the other & not in single file it bugs me a little bit.
This usually means traffic coming up behind them has to make various manouvres to go around & inevitably slows things down & could potentially cause an accident as opposing traffic becomes bottle-necked.

95% of the time they do abide by the rules of the road though.

Theres plenty of us car drivers are eejits as well.

That manouver that you have to make inorder to get past those cyclists is called overtaking. If there is potential for an accident to be caused by you attempting the overtake then you are at fault and shouldn't be overtaking at that point. If there is traffic coming the other way then you shouldn't be overtaking.

fonecrusher1

concussion wrote: »

That would be called 'overtaking' and it's up to the driver who is performing the manoeuvre to do so safely and correctly, not the cyclist in front.

Why not just use the head & travel in single file? Especially if its a very busy road at peak times.

concussion

Because the vast vast majority of drivers don't move out far enough when overtaking, ie, when you overtake a car you are in the other lane but for a cyclist most cars are barely over the line. This creates a situation where a lot of drivers will attempt to overtake closely and dangerously even with oncoming traffic (sure they're still in their own lane aren't they :rolleyes: ). If for any reason the cyclist has to move to avoid an obstacle (pot hole, glass, dead animal) they have absolutely nowher to go.
The obvious solution to this is to cycle two abreast, well within the law, and ensure that any overtaking traffic has to enter the other lane and will therefore not chance a close pass of the cyclists. Make sense?

fonecrusher1

concussion wrote: »

Because the vast vast majority of drivers don't move out far enough when overtaking, ie, when you overtake a car you are in the other lane but for a cyclist most cars are barely over the line. This creates a situation where a lot of drivers will attempt to overtake closely and dangerously even with oncoming traffic (sure they're still in their own lane aren't they :rolleyes: ). If for any reason the cyclist has to move to avoid an obstacle (pot hole, glass, dead animal) they have absolutely nowher to go.
The obvious solution to this is to cycle two abreast, well within the law, and ensure that any overtaking traffic has to enter the other lane and will therefore not chance a close pass of the cyclists. Make sense?

Well i can't speak for all drivers but im always very aware of cyclists anywhere near me. I always indicate (even if theres no other cars around) & try my best to swing well away from the bike rider when over taking.
But if theres 2 or 3 riding abreast i obviously cant allow the same distance as i would plough into on-coming traffic so how the hell exactly is riding your bikes shoulder to shoulder helping things?
Honestly try to think of it from a drivers perspective.

monument

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know, I don't agree with it though, it just pisses people off and there are too many bad drivers out there to risk it, if you can let a car go by safely, do so, don't just block him cause you have a right to.

You'll find very few cyclists who would agree with blocking people just because you have the right to.

John_Rambo wrote: »

And, none taken.

No, I took risks to make my money, but weirdly all of my big hits with vehicles were not my fault, although I did fall off the bike, nobody's fault but mine in this case.

All reports, articles etc I've read on overall crash responsibly shows drivers are mostly at fault by a long shot. But cyclists (and motorists) should be making allowances for poor actions by others (cyclists, motorists, and even pedestrians).

Cycle Craft is very good in this respect. It teaches what you should be watching out for and how you can avoid getting hit by others ("taking the lane" where needed is just one of many examples).

John_Rambo wrote: »

Regarding taking advice? I was on the road every day, all day winter and summer, I'm still alive. Would you take advice on house security from a burglar? I would.

Would I take advice on house security from a burglar? It depends is my best answer.

And for the record, I still am on the road every day, winter and summer, I'm still alive. Plus I've only suffered one injury, I rammed my leg into a solid barrier -- I didn't know I was still in shock after a bus pulled out into me a few mins before.

Anan1

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Well i can't speak for all drivers but im always very aware of cyclists anywhere near me. I always indicate (even if theres no other cars around) & try my best to swing well away from the bike rider when over taking.
But if theres 2 or 3 riding abreast i obviously cant allow the same distance as i would plough into on-coming traffic so how the hell exactly is riding your bikes shoulder to shoulder helping things?
Honestly try to think of it from a drivers perspective.

Wait until there's no oncoming traffic before overtaking? And that's purely from a drivers perspective - I haven't been on a bike in a long time.;)

concussion

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Well i can't speak for all drivers but im always very aware of cyclists anywhere near me. I always indicate (even if theres no other cars around) & try my best to swing well away from the bike rider when over taking.
But if theres 2 or 3 riding abreast i obviously cant allow the same distance as i would plough into on-coming traffic so how the hell exactly is riding your bikes shoulder to shoulder helping things?
Honestly try to think of it from a drivers perspective.

You seem to think that cycling and driving are mutually exclusive. Why the hell are you overtaking when there's traffic coming against you? That's utterly stupid and dangerous.

monument

concussion wrote: »

First of all, the ROTR say nothing whatsoever about cycling abreast.

Actually it does.

Online there's a table of what a cyclist must obey or do, but it's wrongly placed on a page titled 'Rules on cycle tracks for other road users'.

It says:

The table below sets down particular road traffic rules on cycling which you must obey.
...
Don't ever cycle side-by-side with more than one cyclist.

-Chris-

Thread closed pending mod discussion