Cork's Rudest Bar Staff? ***MOD WARNING POST #87***

ondarack

oeb wrote: »

Then of course you know, being a bouncer that having a search policy is perfectly legal (AFAIK doormen are not allowed conduct 'random' searches, they may only search everyone or no one.)

i stand to be corrected but as far as I know having a search policy is perfectly legal but searching people on the street is not!! that can be seen as defamation of character. To search a person you must hav a designated room to preform the search.

i doubt they are looking for weapons, people bringing in drink is wat they are doing.

they do ask people if they are happy to be searched but I still dont think they are within thier right to do so. do they search people at the weekends?? I haven't been out in cork at the weekend but i'm sure most of this goes on midweek to college students

run_Forrest_run

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

what the hell are they boncers searching for? Weapons? Drink? Drugs? I'd love to know.

It's drink, huge issue with folks bringing in bottles of Vodka and the like. If they don't try and eliminate it the tills don't swell. That thing about the judge hinting at the license not being renewed is farcical, the manager should have said ye are not getting in as ye seem to be intoxicated. Simples, job done.

ondarack

another problem I have is the "college id's only". there are 3 legal identifications, passport,driving licence and garda id. anywhere in the world practically:) 2 of the 3 would suffice to prove your identity but not in cork, they require a college id which is not a legal form of id.

now i never worked in the city so i dont know they're reason for doing this but i also dont think this is legal practice.

I'm not a man of the law,so i stand to be corrected, but I am a certified Door Security Personnel "Bouncer" and this is what I was told before being certified.

ondarack

RoverJames wrote: »

That thing about the judge hinting at the license not being renewed is farcical, the manager should have said ye are not getting in as ye seem to be intoxicated. Simples, job done.

It would also be simple for a Judge to rule against renewing a licence due to anti social behaviour outside a premises

ondarack

ondarack wrote: »

It would also be simple for a Judge to rule against renewing a licence due to anti social behaviour outside a premises

Anti socail behavior ? A group of p1ssed court staff being refused admission to a club ?

ondarack

RoverJames wrote: »

Anti socail behavior ? A group of p1ssed court staff being refused admission to a club ?

no but i'm sure there would be a case full of files a judge could use!! I dont think there is many managers out there stupid enough to fight that battle

Papa_Lazarou

ondarack wrote: »

another problem I have is the "college id's only". there are 3 legal identifications, passport,driving licence and garda id. anywhere in the world practically:) 2 of the 3 would suffice to prove your identity but not in cork, they require a college id which is not a legal form of id.

now i never worked in the city so i dont know they're reason for doing this but i also dont think this is legal practice.

I'm not a man of the law,so i stand to be corrected, but I am a certified Door Security Personnel "Bouncer" and this is what I was told before being certified.

The driving licence is being wound out as a legal form of identification....im assuming because its easier to fake than the other two. (I had to sign a form at work saying that i understood i can no longer accept it as a form of identification for selling alcohol.something to do with some new law i think))

JohnMearsheimer

RoverJames wrote: »

Anti socail behavior ? A group of p1ssed court staff being refused admission to a club ?

This was the beginning of the night so nobody was drunk. It just seemed that the bouncer was out to ruin people's night, he didn't offer any reason for refusal except saying not tonight over and over again. It happened at a bar, not a club. Most of the people there were middle aged civil servants with families, not a bunch of rowdies.

I'm not defending what he did, just recounting what I saw.

oeb

ondarack wrote: »

another problem I have is the "college id's only". there are 3 legal identifications, passport,driving licence and garda id. anywhere in the world practically:) 2 of the 3 would suffice to prove your identity but not in cork, they require a college id which is not a legal form of id.

This is also fine and within the law, as long as the rule applies to everyone. Basicially, most laws relating to doorwork can be summed up as: Most rules are fine, as long as they apply to everyone.

For example, if I run a door in cork, I might refuse someone because they are wearing trainers. This is fine, but where it becomes problematic is if the person I have refused decides to bring a case, and they can prove that there were other customers on the premises wearing runners. This person may instead claim that the reason they were refused was the area they are from, or the fact that they are a single male or something along those lines (Something covered by the equal status act).

People generally don't try and bring cases up for reasons like this, because it is first, very difficult to prove others were wearing trainers or whatever on the night on question, and secondly, that discrimination was intended.

babo9

RoverJames wrote: »

It's drink, huge issue with folks bringing in bottles of Vodka and the like.

I once saw a group of girls passing around a naggin of vodka in the queue to cubins...they still got in, shocker!

Ludo

ondarack wrote: »

another problem I have is the "college id's only". there are 3 legal identifications, passport,driving licence and garda id. anywhere in the world practically:) 2 of the 3 would suffice to prove your identity but not in cork,

Not quite true about passport sufficing anywhere in the world. When living in the States years ago, I was very often refused when trying to use my passport as ID. They would only accept drivers licence. Most bouncers had never seen a passport so they would not accept it. I found it most strange.

babo9

oeb wrote: »

This is also fine and within the law, as long as the rule applies to everyone. Basicially, most laws relating to doorwork can be summed up as: Most rules are fine, as long as they apply to everyone.

To bad they don't stick to that, years ago I went to a club with two female friends, he left them in, refused me, said it was over 21's, I was 20, I told him you just left in two of my friends who are 20, he then said over 20's for girls, 21s for lads!

Tbh I was pissed but he didn't give that as a reason for refusal! If something like that happened now of course I'd refute it, but I was young

oeb

babo9 wrote: »

To bad they don't stick to that, years ago I went to a club with two female friends, he left them in, refused me, said it was over 21's, I was 20, I told him you just left in two of my friends who are 20, he then said over 20's for girls, 21s for lads!

Tbh I was pissed but he didn't give that as a reason for refusal! If something like that happened now of course I'd refute it, but I was young

You would have been fully within your rights to pursue that under the equal status act (Discrimination on the basis of gender). But people don't, so they get away with it.

ondarack

oeb wrote: »

This is also fine and within the law, as long as the rule applies to everyone. Basicially, most laws relating to doorwork can be summed up as: Most rules are fine, as long as they apply to everyone.

For example, if I run a door in cork, I might refuse someone because they are wearing trainers. This is fine, but where it becomes problematic is if the person I have refused decides to bring a case, and they can prove that there were other customers on the premises wearing runners. This person may instead claim that the reason they were refused was the area they are from, or the fact that they are a single male or something along those lines (Something covered by the equal status act).

People generally don't try and bring cases up for reasons like this, because it is first, very difficult to prove others were wearing trainers or whatever on the night on question, and secondly, that discrimination was intended.

I see what your saying and it is true in the case of footwear but I would still disagree that refusing admittance due to no college id is legal, are the clubs in question affiliated with the colleges? No. It would of course be fine if the colleges owned the bar or club. Would it be ok for a club to slap a sign up and say "Blondes Only" ?? Or even worse "irish nationals only" ??

Current Cit cards dont even have DOB on them as far as i know!

ondarack

Ludo wrote: »

Not quite true about passport sufficing anywhere in the world. When living in the States years ago, I was very often refused when trying to use my passport as ID. They would only accept drivers licence. Most bouncers had never seen a passport so they would not accept it. I found it most strange.

Point taken, america is a crazy place tho:D. Would they not even accept it with another form of id to verify? A pet peeve of mine is someone giving me a passport and its nearly outta date its so old. If someone is 18 and gives me a passport thats nearly 10 years old

ondarack

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

The driving licence is being wound out as a legal form of identification....im assuming because its easier to fake than the other two. (I had to sign a form at work saying that i understood i can no longer accept it as a form of identification for selling alcohol.something to do with some new law i think))

Haven't heard that yet but quite possible. Where I work we only tend to accept Full licences, the provisionals seem to be very disposable and plenty of fakes around

bar26

Cyril Squirrel wrote: »

Has anyone encountered really rude barstaff in Cork City? Had an unpleasant experience recently in The Pavillion on Carey's Lane. An undertone of scowliness, drinks flung at you and no please or thank you. It was early evening, the place wasn't busy, so no excuses there. And this hasn't been the first time either. Anybody else had bad experiences here?

ya the pav is fairly bad one of the girls took my freinds order then went to the jacks, maybe he wasnt posing hard enough

bar26

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

Yeah while i wouldn't be the biggest fan of the Bróg but still go there a lot, most of the bouncers are legends. Especially when you've pretty much lived there for the summer:pac: they are great for a chat. And yeah the bar people in there are really slow and just seem to randomly pick people to serve instead of by who was actually queued there first.
And don't get me started on the bouncers in reardens. Notorious for just been downright ignorant.

I took a look in the door one night and was the oldest by about 6 years, it was time to let it go

MrMojoRisin

babo9 wrote: »

The female bouncer on the door in riordans, man she pisses me off!
Everytime "after a few drinks are ya Bob?", "no trainers Bob", I'm like are you having a laugh, have you even looked at the footwear in town the last 5 years, half the ppl wear runners! Using my name(its not Bob :rolleyes:) really gets me too, the way she says it!

Reardens is a dump. I went there a lot before and we always got a lot of hassle from bouncers as well. One of my mates devised a clever trick to escape the 'no runners' radar - he'd pull black socks over the front of his runners and then whip them off once he was inside. I wouldn't bother going to Reardens now if I was around the city. There's nothing special about the place anyway - pretty ugly-looking really - so I don't know why there were/are always people queuing up outside it.

babo9 wrote: »

One of the worst was a few years ago the tall baldy guy in long island, 4 of us walk up, "this is a cocktail bar lads", I said "ya?", he was refusing us because we were wearing tshirts(with collars) and not shirts!

I've heard stories about the snobbery inside in that place! Put me off from bothering to set foot inside there. Someone was telling me recently that they have a big sign sort of reaching around the outside of the building saying it was 'Cocktail bar of the year' (2009?). How lovely.

babo9 wrote: »

Last point: when I gave up drink two years ago for lent I never had so much trouble getting in...I was accused of being drunk so many times, ridiculous!

That is pretty damn ridiculous alright. I just think they'll use any random excuse to turn people away as part of their power trip. The same thing as you happened to my lil' sis (who doesn't drink) just before Christmas when she was going to meet her friends inside in The Cornstore on Cornmarket Street. The bollix on the door told her she couldn't go in because she had "too much on board". She laughed and said she doesn't even drink. No matter, yer man wouldn't budge. She called up her friends (five of them) and they came outside to her and they all took their business elsewhere.

Some Cork bouncers are pr1cks.

As for rude bar staff, personally I had a few negative experiences inside in The Old Oak between 2002-2004. Just a general snotty attitude and bad manners, like chatting away to someone when you're standing right in front of them waiting to be served. I'm a lanky fcuker anyway so it's difficult not to see me. :rolleyes:

Dermighty

Just to clarify a few things:

Too much drink on board = you are not getting in because I, my manager or the owner wish to deny you access, which is allowed as we reserve the right to refuse admission.

But I don't even drink! = Ok, I don't know you, your habits and I certainly neither know nor care if you drink or not. My friend used to get really agitated if bouncers asked him if he was after a few pints (he didn't drink). It's not like all bouncers have some magical insight into what you've been up to during the night or for the rest of your life! When you're dealing with up to 2,500 people passing you every night you don't really get a chance to follow people around. If I think you're drunk then that's all that matters, end of conversation. I am a reasonable person, I apologise when I'm wrong and I always endeavour to treat people fairly.

Random generic question (had much to drink? where are you coming from? etc) = I need time to assess whether you are intoxicated etc or not.

Dress code = some bouncers are flexible with this, some are not. It's generally set out by owners and managers and the bouncers just implement it. Example: If you approach a flashy looking over 23's bar wearing a hoodie, runners and a few piercings then why would the bouncer let you in?!

The fact is that some bouncers (in cork) are dickheads. I am a bouncer and I think that myself. The vast, vast majority are level headed and are able to do their job. There are some, I'm looking at you ginger guy at the Long Island, that leave much to be desired in terms of tact, personality and ability to speak to people but all in all I find them to be ok.

Once you're told you can't get in, just leave it, don't stand their arguing. Either ask to speak to a manager or just leave.

ondarack wrote: »

i'm a bouncer but not in cork city. I think the bouncers in cork are ridiculous. i liked the post above about the judge because this should happen them more. some of the stuff they do is just down right illegal!! like everyone being searched in a que outside havana's!!

Might as well fix your post for you.

It's not illegal to search people in the queue. Every single person is asked if they consent to being searched (by people trained to search people properly).

ondarack wrote: »

another problem I have is the "college id's only". there are 3 legal identifications, passport,driving licence and garda id. anywhere in the world practically:) 2 of the 3 would suffice to prove your identity but not in cork, they require a college id which is not a legal form of id.

It's not college ID only. It's 2 forms of photographic ID, one of which must be a college Id and the other must be a passport or Garda ID (or drivers license depending on where you go). This is only used on student nights (such as Tuesdays and Thursdays).

blow69

I remember reading an article in the Sunday Independent(i know, i know) recently about how Cork is the miracle of the recession in Ireland or some BS like that. Anyways it was comparing Dublin to Cork in terms of bars and clubs. It noted how Cork is nothing like Dublin as in they don't take too kindly to 'superpubs' and there is generally a very relaxed attitude with restrictions to bars because everyone is laid back and nice to each other.


Pffffttttt.

D-Generate

I was walking down the Coal Quay last summer along the footpath on the Bodega side of the road and just after I went past the McCarthys and the Hippy/Craft shop (coming from Bierhaus) the bouncer for the Bodega bounded up to me.
"Sorry fella, can't let you in with those trainers and hoody"

Now I understand the need for dress codes for venues but I hadn't even planned on going to the Bodega. The guy seemed to think the whole street was the Bodegas and anyone on it wanted in.
Well I chewed him out of it for a good five minutes causing hassle at the door of their "fine" establishment. The idiot probably thinks jeans, black shoes and a Celtic jersey is the definition of smart casual in his own free time. I will never go there now even though I might have considered it before.

Well we all know the famous phrase as uttered by Socrates or maybe it was Plato...
"Power corrupts, and absolute power turns you in to an obnoxious dickhead on the door of pubs/clubs in Cork."
Yeah Google says it was Plato.

Dermighty

D-Generate wrote: »

Now I understand the need for dress codes for venues but I hadn't even planned on going to the Bodega. The guy seemed to think the whole street was the Bodegas and anyone on it wanted in.
Well I chewed him out of it for a good five minutes causing hassle at the door of their "fine" establishment. The idiot probably thinks jeans, black shoes and a Celtic jersey is the definition of smart casual in his own free time. I will never go there now even though I might have considered it before.

Well we all know the famous phrase as uttered by Socrates or maybe it was Plato...
"Power corrupts, and absolute power turns you in to an obnoxious dickhead on the door of pubs/clubs in Cork."
Yeah Google says it was Plato.

So...you have decided to never go to the Bodega and brand this bouncer an obnoxious dickhead because this bouncer mistook you for a potential customer and informed you that your clothes did not match the dress code...

The bouncer doesn't come across as half the dickhead you seem to be if that's your train of thought...

Dudess

blow69 wrote: »

I remember reading an article in the Sunday Independent(i know, i know) recently about how Cork is the miracle of the recession in Ireland or some BS like that.

I think that seems true though - bunch of new shops, pubs absolutely jammered... Not denying there are job losses here though.

D-Generate

Dermighty wrote: »

So...you have decided to never go to the Bodega and brand this bouncer an obnoxious dickhead because this bouncer mistook you for a potential customer and informed you that your clothes did not match the dress code...

The bouncer doesn't come across as half the dickhead you seem to be if that's your train of thought...

Well I didn't realise being 15m away from the door to the Bodega meant that I was anticipating going in so there was no mistaking me for a potential customer. It meant I was a pedestrian and running up to me and saying I wasn't dressed appropriately could only be termed an insult as there was no basis to say it. Sure why doesn't he run over to people on Oliver Plunkett St. and pass judgement on their clothes, they might be going to the Bodega too?

Sorry I touched a nerve, it may have been you perhaps?

castie

I dont mind people criticising security/bar staff of pubs/clubs.

But from now on anyone throwing abuse at anyone with identifying information will be infracted/banned.

Dermighty

D-Generate wrote: »

Well I didn't realise being 15m away from the door to the Bodega meant that I was anticipating going in so there was no mistaking me for a potential customer. It meant I was a pedestrian and running up to me and saying I wasn't dressed appropriately could only be termed an insult as there was no basis to say it. Sure why doesn't he run over to people on Oliver Plunkett St. and pass judgement on their clothes, they might be going to the Bodega too?

Sorry I touched a nerve, it may have been you perhaps?

It wasn't me, I don't work for that bar group either. I think the bouncer was stupid to do it but I also think that you branding bouncers as obnoxious dickheads is heavy handed seeing as ll this ended up being was a forgettable incident with an unfortunate idiot of a bouncer.

MrMojoRisin

Dermighty wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things:

Too much drink on board = you are not getting in because I, my manager or the owner wish to deny you access, which is allowed as we reserve the right to refuse admission.

Say what dirge you will, but that contains no logic or realism in the context of the situation whatsoever. "Too much drink on board" does not require obtuse translation from another bouncer - its implication was/is crystal clear.

FYI, my sis was only met by one fat fcuk of a bouncer - not a manager, owner, or whomever. They also didn't/don't have cameras on the door.

Dermighty wrote: »

But I don't even drink! = Ok, I don't know you, your habits and I certainly neither know nor care if you drink or not. My friend used to get really agitated if bouncers asked him if he was after a few pints (he didn't drink). It's not like all bouncers have some magical insight into what you've been up to during the night or for the rest of your life!

Well, a bouncer doesn't need a magic wand to be endowed with the common sense to detect the smell of alcohol on a person's breath, or to be able to sensibly distinguish the gait of a sober person from that of an inebriated person. If he/she can't perceive the former accurately, then they're a piss poor excuse for a person being paid to haunt a door competantly for a few hours.

And, er, I seriously doubt yer manno on the door had dealt with 2,500 (?!) people passing him on the night prior to my sister encountering him, seeing as it was about 9pm on an ordinary Wednesday night and Cornmarket Street isn't usually jammed with pubbers and clubbers.

Dermighty wrote: »

If I think you're drunk then that's all that matters, end of conversation. I am a reasonable person, I apologise when I'm wrong and I always endeavour to treat people fairly.

Yes, that is the glowing and insular, one-sided perspective on your part, or on the part of one of your fellow bouncers, only.

miss_shadow

Dermighty wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things:

Too much drink on board = you are not getting in because I, my manager or the owner wish to deny you access, which is allowed as we reserve the right to refuse admission.

But I don't even drink! = Ok, I don't know you, your habits and I certainly neither know nor care if you drink or not. My friend used to get really agitated if bouncers asked him if he was after a few pints (he didn't drink). It's not like all bouncers have some magical insight into what you've been up to during the night or for the rest of your life! When you're dealing with up to 2,500 people passing you every night you don't really get a chance to follow people around. If I think you're drunk then that's all that matters, end of conversation. I am a reasonable person, I apologise when I'm wrong and I always endeavour to treat people fairly.

Random generic question (had much to drink? where are you coming from? etc) = I need time to assess whether you are intoxicated etc or not.

Dress code = some bouncers are flexible with this, some are not. It's generally set out by owners and managers and the bouncers just implement it. Example: If you approach a flashy looking over 23's bar wearing a hoodie, runners and a few piercings then why would the bouncer let you in?!

The fact is that some bouncers (in cork) are dickheads. I am a bouncer and I think that myself. The vast, vast majority are level headed and are able to do their job. There are some, I'm looking at you ginger guy at the Long Island, that leave much to be desired in terms of tact, personality and ability to speak to people but all in all I find them to be ok.

Once you're told you can't get in, just leave it, don't stand their arguing. Either ask to speak to a manager or just leave.



Might as well fix your post for you.

It's not illegal to search people in the queue. Every single person is asked if they consent to being searched (by people trained to search people properly).



It's not college ID only. It's 2 forms of photographic ID, one of which must be a college Id and the other must be a passport or Garda ID (or drivers license depending on where you go). This is only used on student nights (such as Tuesdays and Thursdays).

sorry but i can't believe you got a thanks for that.



They don't mind you going in sober but once you have had too much in the club then they will not think twice about chucking you out on the street worse for where..even on you're own!now i know it's you're own responsibility to look after yourself but some women I have seen thrown out can't even stand and their skirt around their waist..can't those sort of bouncers be MAN enough to call them a cab.


Might as well fix your post for you.

random generic question= let me see where you come from,what you're tone of voice is like and judge you based on that and what you look like.
-i think that's more to the point

Anyways back to being asked about bar staff..I have no problems being served anywhere, if we were all so sensitive that we have to start caring how we get served drinks i'd have to ask myself when did that happen and why..it's silly isn't it!
I was in the brog a few months back and I was at the front bar

Barman- 'UMMM DID YOU COME FROM THE TOP BAR'
Me- no i have just come in...(a tad confused)
Barman- calls the top bar and called someone to come down to see if i was or not..someone comes down sheepishly and trying to avoid a scene 'carefully' whispers to the dickhead barman that I wasn't and that it was OK to serve me. I couldn't believe how aweful this individual was at being..eh..um...whatever he was trying to be but haha..I just think some men have wayyyyyy to much testosterone and do not know how to use it and that...THAT is laughable!!!lol :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

blow69

Dermighty wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things:

Too much drink on board = you are not getting in because I, my manager or the owner wish to deny you access, which is allowed as we reserve the right to refuse admission.

Isn't being relatively sober at the entrance and then going to a bar to have a good few drinks (i.e get drunk) the same as arriving at the door pretty intoxicated? It's the same level of drunkenness really. They are just as likely to cause "trouble"

Another thing I have noticed is how paranoid and suspicious bouncers can be e.g if you're in the line for a club and you're talking to your friends about something and everybody is laughing about it, a lot of bouncers take this the wrong way and automatically think you're all drunk just because you were laughing. This is what humans do. They laugh.

Nowadays I feel I have to shut up and go through the whole process like some long drawn out formality in the line for fear of not getting in. Crazy.