[KEEP IT CIVIL] Wikileaks release Video of the murder of Iraqi civilians

FlutterinBantam

DeVore wrote: »

Sarcasm is the refuge of the beaten.

DeV.

Unfortunately it's not sarcasm, it's the truth.;)

FlutterinBantam

Dara Robinson wrote: »

Holy Crapola, the investigation into this video cost Wikileaks around $50k,
Read more here

I think the guys at WikiLeaks hit the nail on the head here...

And this is something I have been guilty of myself. Regardless of how and why the original attack happened the Van attack is the main issue as there are no circumstances where that can be justified.[/QUOTE]


How do you know that, were you there?

FlutterinBantam

karma_ wrote: »

No Overheal I'm not a military man at all, in fact I'm a pretty committed pacifist, however I do have some degree of common sense and common sense tells me that due care wasn't taken in that instance, and if it wasn't taken in that instance does it ever get taken? Common sense tells me also, that if those guys really were insurgents then they were fairly poor ones because it looked like a few lads walking down a street.

Regarding patrols, I grew up in NI when the troubles were in full swing and I've seen many a patrol on the streets, and yes they were always fairly professional.

You mean they didn't have insurgent stamped on their jackets.!!!

C'mon pleeeeease.

Dara Robinson

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

How do you know that, were you there?

I'm really not one for insults but.. your an idiot :P
Seriously, seeing as we all saw exactly what the Pilot and Gunner saw and they used that info to form their decisions I think we can assume that we have about as much info as the Gunner and Pilot did at the time. :rolleyes:
And before you or anyone else runs off telling me that they were responding to small arms fire, its been proven by MSNBC that this was not the case (Also see attached as they have to give the teams directions so they can find the location as only the Apache's knew where it was). Also the Pilots point this out in the full video as the small arms fire came from roof tops and they were attacking ground level (see attached).
Plus US Intelligence Lt. Col. Admitted that they were not acting in accordance with the rules of engagement and Military Policy (also in an MSNBC Interview I posted in this thread, probably back in page 6-8 or something like that)

Overheal

Dara Robinson wrote: »

I'm really not one for insults but.. your an idiot :P

" You're* an Idiot. "

If you're gonna go there: at least get it right.

Sheeps

*your'

He was just covering himself from getting banned.. Technically, he didn't call him an idiot.

The Master

Dara Robinson wrote: »

I'm really not one for insults but.. your an idiot

Banned

I have been swiftly proven wrong.

smurgen

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Dara Robinson wrote: »

Holy Crapola, the investigation into this video cost Wikileaks around $50k,
Read more here

I think the guys at WikiLeaks hit the nail on the head here...

And this is something I have been guilty of myself. Regardless of how and why the original attack happened the Van attack is the main issue as there are no circumstances where that can be justified.[/QUOTE]


How do you know that, were you there?

no but he has the video which gave him enough information to come to this conclusion.i think you win the prize of troll with the highest post count

K.O.Kiki

The sad thing about this news is that it will be forgotten too quickly.

And we will never learn from it.

FlutterinBantam

smurgen wrote: »

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

no but he has the video which gave him enough information to come to this conclusion.i think you win the prize of troll with the highest post count

That's my whole point Sir, you cannot get the full picture, the whole context, without the information of what happened even in the days before, the trend, the modus operandi of the enemy, and the general feeling on the ground.

You can form an opinion yes, but to come to such definitive conclusions the people here are coming to, requires,I assure you sir, a lot more information and background.

You cannot achieve such definitive conclusions based on isolated incidents.

They rush to condemn the US, and the strong anti US drift pervading this forum has unfortunately clouded the view of many.


People should really try to look objectively at these issues and not let their deep seated prejudices cloud their judgment.

Gigiwagga

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

That's my whole point Sir, you cannot get the full picture, the whole context, without the information of what happened even in the days before, the trend, the modus operandi of the enemy, and the general feeling on the ground.

You can form an opinion yes, but to come to such definitive conclusions the people here are coming to, requires,I assure you sir, a lot more information and background.

You cannot achieve such definitive conclusions based on isolated incidents.

They rush to condemn the US, and the strong anti US drift pervading this forum has unfortunately clouded the view of many.


People should really try to look objectively at these issues and not let their deep seated prejudices cloud their judgment.

You're right, to get the full picture we have to go back as far as necessary to get the full picture, and to come to definitive conclusions. So let's go back, right back to when those troops were sitting in some barracks somewhere in their own country, minding their own business. Iraqis in their country going about their business. And at some point after that things started to go very wrong, what could the reason be ?...oh right the US invaded Iraq all of 5000 miles away and bombed the crap out of it.
So Flutterin, the harm, wrong, war crime etc was all Uncle Sams doing.
Stop trying to apologise for such heinous actions, it makes you seem like Glenn Beck or a banner waver at a Teabagger convention.

And what do you mean by 'modus operandi of the enemy' these were civilians in their own country.
Tell me are the citizens of all the countries the US currently occupies to be considered the enemy in your view ?
Is every critic of the marauding US war machine the enemy ?

FlutterinBantam

info@williamrua wrote: »

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You're right, to get the full picture we have to go back as far as necessary to get the full picture, and to come to definitive conclusions. So let's go back, right back to when those troops were sitting in some barracks somewhere in their own country, minding their own business. Iraqis in their country going about their business. And at some point after that things started to go very wrong, what could the reason be ?...oh right the US invaded Iraq all of 5000 miles away and bombed the crap out of it.
So Flutterin, the harm, wrong, war crime etc was all Uncle Sams doing.
Stop trying to apologise for such heinous actions, it makes you seem like Glenn Beck or a banner waver at a Teabagger convention.

And what do you mean by 'modus operandi of the enemy' these were civilians in their own country.
Tell me are the citizens of all the countries the US currently occupies to be considered the enemy in your view ?
Is every critic of the marauding US war machine the enemy ?

You really don't enhance your argument with posts like that.

Poccington

Just on the topic of people with the "OMG all US soldiers is murderers!!!1One!!!111" responses.

We've had people murdered Overseas by our own troops, that doesn't mean every member of the Defence Forces is a murderer.

Amalgam

Poccington wrote: »

Just on the topic of people with the "OMG all US soldiers is murderers!!!1One!!!111" responses.

You're generalising somewhat, a lot of people, even non military would see there is a serious problem with the handling of the injured\dying journalist, with regard to the 'pick up a weapon' dialogue. The engagement of the van is also highly questionable.

I don't have to be an active serviceman\woman to 'appreciate' the video.

The soldiers that, 'just do their job', will not end up on Wikileaks.

---

The Pentagon have stated they're investigating Wikileaks for endangering National Security.

Gigiwagga

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

info@williamrua wrote: »

You really don't enhance your argument with posts like that.

Yeah because really there is no argument. Invaders are criminals and murderers. If it helps you sleep better at night you go right on calling them heroes. Damn a man looks good in uniform, all that power and confidence, and errr...intelligence. I for one am really glad we've got these guys watching our backs...gulp. LOL

prinz

info@williamrua wrote: »

Yeah because really there is no argument. Invaders are criminals and murderers. If it helps you sleep better at night you go right on calling them heroes.

Does that apply to the fight against Nazi fascism?

Sheeps

prinz wrote: »

Does that apply to the fight against Nazi fascism?

do you mean the people fighting the americans b/c obama is literally hitler

Gigiwagga

prinz wrote: »

Does that apply to the fight against Nazi fascism?

Please take note, I said invaders are murderers etc, if you have a little look at your history books you will see that with regards to the Nazis, they were also invaders just like the US. Thanks for the nice comparison. Different uniform same mindset.

Overheal

info@williamrua wrote: »

You're right, to get the full picture we have to go back as far as necessary to get the full picture, and to come to definitive conclusions. So let's go back, right back to when those troops were sitting in some barracks somewhere in their own country, minding their own business. Iraqis in their country going about their business. And at some point after that things started to go very wrong, what could the reason be ?...oh right the US invaded Iraq all of 5000 miles away and bombed the crap out of it.
So Flutterin, the harm, wrong, war crime etc was all Uncle Sams doing.
Stop trying to apologise for such heinous actions, it makes you seem like Glenn Beck or a banner waver at a Teabagger convention.

And what do you mean by 'modus operandi of the enemy' these were civilians in their own country.
Tell me are the citizens of all the countries the US currently occupies to be considered the enemy in your view ?
Is every critic of the marauding US war machine the enemy ?

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Lets begin with the fact that they were already involved in Afghanistan at the time; since late 2001. Which is more like, 500 miles away, not 5,000.

If you wanna start: Start there. And please get your facts straight.

prinz

info@williamrua wrote: »

Please take note, I said invaders are murderers etc, if you have a little look at your history books you will see that with regards to the Nazis, they were also invaders just like the US. Thanks for the nice comparison. Different uniform same mindset.

Yes compare, in both cases the US fought to dislodge a megalomaniac brutal mass-murdering dictator. In both cases innocent people are killed.

Sheeps

"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." ~ harvey dent re: obama being literally hitler.

karma_

Overheal wrote: »

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Lets begin with the fact that they were already involved in Afghanistan at the time; since late 2001. Which is more like, 500 miles away, not 5,000.

If you wanna start: Start there. And please get your facts straight.

I've seen some extreme cases of pedantry on boards in my time, but this comes close to taking the biscuit.

Gigiwagga

Overheal wrote: »

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Lets begin with the fact that they were already involved in Afghanistan at the time; since late 2001. Which is more like, 500 miles away, not 5,000.

If you wanna start: Start there. And please get your facts straight.

Yeah right all those men stationed in Afghanistan, just waiting to hop into Iraq.
Vast majority shipped from US as you well know, and seeing as you brought up Afghanistan, wow the ole US having great 'success' there too eh? butchering sheepherders and friggin farmers. To you, do all foreign (non-western) 'looking' people look like terrorists ? seems to be the case. Oh and what the hell are the US doing in Afghanistan anyway?, why don't they start saving the world by fixing up their own f***ed up country. Yeah spreading Freedom Blood.

I'm sure the nazis foreign policy must have confused some people back in 1938 until it became clear.
Only problem now is that there is nobody to stand against the US.

Overheal

info@williamrua wrote: »

Yeah right all those men stationed in Afghanistan, just waiting to hop into Iraq.
Vast majority shipped from US as you well know, and seeing as you brought up Afghanistan, wow the ole US having great 'success' there too eh? butchering sheepherders and friggin farmers. To you, do all foreign (non-western) 'looking' people look like terrorists ? seems to be the case. Oh and what the hell are the US doing in Afghanistan anyway?, why don't they start saving the world by fixing up their own f***ed up country. Yeah spreading Freedom Blood.

I'm sure the nazis foreign policy must have confused some people back in 1938 until it became clear.
Only problem now is that there is nobody to stand against the US.

Its clear you're incapable of rational discussion. +1 for the ignore list.

We got into Afghanistan with the support of the UN and ISAF, by the way.

On December 1, 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama announced that he would escalate U.S. military involvement by deploying an additional 30,000 soldiers over a period of six months.[75] He also proposed to begin troop withdrawals 18 months from that date.[76][77] On January 26, 2010, at the International Conference on Afghanistan in London which brought together some 70 countries and organizations,[78] Afghan President Hamid Karzai told world leaders that he intends to reach out to the top echelons of the Taliban within a few weeks with a peace initiative.[79] Karzai set the framework for dialogue with Taliban leaders when he called on the group's leadership to take part in a "loya jirga" -- or large assembly of elders—to initiate peace talks.[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29

Sheeps

teh United Nazis

prinz

Sheeps wrote: »

teh United Nazis

'Tahnks', for removing all doubt.

AlmightyCushion

Sheeps wrote: »

teh United Nazis

At least try and contribute something to the thread or just don't bother posting at all.

Overheal

Cos everyone knows you can win every argument by relating something to the Nazis. :rolleyes: