Downloading Argument

wildwildwest

Why wait? Just go download the High Def rips that are released every week.

tman

wildwildwest wrote: »

Why wait? Just go download the High Def rips that are released every week.

Some people like to actually support anime that they enjoy, not just steal it every week...

wildwildwest

tman wrote: »

Some people like to actually support anime that they enjoy, not just steal it every week...

Well your not stealing it everyweek. Especially if the series is not licensed outside of Japan, then it is not stealing.
I remember when Anime started becoming available for sale on DVD in Ireland. Charging over 20euro for 4 or 5 eps. Now that was stealing from people.
Also many shops were selling these complete boxsets that were nothing but illegal copies. You would see these mini adverts pop up advertising the company that made the dvd with there email address being a "@hotmail.com" or "@yahoo.com"
Also Japanese studios dont see the money they make from foreign countries as badly needed, since they make the series aimed at Japanese consumers not Foreign customers. They have been making anime series for years long before any anime series got promoted outside Japan. Actually people bootlegging anime in foreign countries has done more for promoting it outside of Japan then anything.
Also you act so high and mighty, yet all this money they make from selling DVDs and Blurays outside of Japan. How come the wages for workers in the industry havent increased? They still make very little.

Zeouterlimits

Oh and I'm sure you send a cheque off to all of them with all the money you're not spending.

And the series is licenced obviously, by Manga Entertainment, so it is stealing.

To argue any further would be OT, just looking forward to sitting down and watching this on mah Blu-Ray player with some friends.

wildwildwest

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

Oh and I'm sure you send a cheque off to all of them with all the money you're not spending.

And the series is licenced obviously, by Manga Entertainment, so it is stealing.

To argue any further would be OT, just looking forward to sitting down and watching this on mah Blu-Ray player with some friends.

Well at the end of the day, its up the person. In the country I am currently in the anime isnt licensed. Actualy they have very few laws when it comes to copyright. So I am not breaking any laws here.
So while your looking forward to watching it in High Def.
I am already after watching the current episode 50 in high def with my friends here.
Please dont get all high and mighty about "stealing", everyone here has downloaded anime or manga online, alot of them still do. You have probably done it aswell.

Cy_Revenant

wildwildwest wrote: »

Well at the end of the day, its up the person. In the country I am currently in the anime isnt licensed. Actualy they have very few laws when it comes to copyright. So I am not breaking any laws here.
So while your looking forward to watching it in High Def.
I am already after watching the current episode 50 in high def with my friends here.
Please dont get all high and mighty about "stealing", everyone here has downloaded anime or manga online, alot of them still do. You have probably done it aswell.

Ad homenim arguements carry no water.

The points made by tman and Zeouterlimts was that stealing was wrong. Accusing them of stealing does not make this point any less true. Your style of arguement and attempts to justify it merely alludes to repressed guilt on your part for the theft of these works.

Varik

the last fmab episode was 335mb if you think this is the same quality even if it's HD your an idiot, i can make a video i took with my phone HD it's not going to suddenly get better.
but i don't see any thing wrong with downloading an episode this week when those in Japan can see it on TV, but there is a big difference between that and downloading something that is available here.

anime will never be shown much on tv so we are stuck with fan-subs and belated dvd/bluray.

i can't wait to buy this, i've seen the first episode with the eng dub and it was up to the standard of the original full metal, Mouth-watering.

Art_Wolf

wildwildwest wrote: »

I remember when Anime started becoming available for sale on DVD in Ireland. Charging over 20euro for 4 or 5 eps. Now that was stealing from people.

wildwildwest wrote: »

Actually people bootlegging anime in foreign countries has done more for promoting it outside of Japan then anything.

Both very true but you seem to be missing the link between this and downloading the anime. With people downloading it rather than purchasing it the companies can not reduce the cost of the DVDs as they are not selling. If the DVDs are not selling then the company is not making as much money. If they have less money what do they care what illegal bootlegs are generating - they are stealing potential profits from them and encouraging the studios to charge a higher license fee making it all a riskier business deal.

wildwildwest wrote: »

Also Japanese studios dont see the money they make from foreign countries as badly needed, since they make the series aimed at Japanese consumers not Foreign customers.

I have heard this mentioned a few times and I think you are mixing up priorities and need. Like a lot of companys, international sales are not a "priority" but, and especially in the downturn, any sales are welcome. I do not believe any studio would say $3m sale of a license was not taken into consideration when production starts.

wildwildwest wrote: »

Also you act so high and mighty, yet all this money they make from selling DVDs and Blurays outside of Japan. How come the wages for workers in the industry havent increased? They still make very little.

Are you talking about the japanese artists or the american voice actors? I have never seen figures for 'anime voice actors' as voice acting spans a massive sector. If it concerns the artists than it is an intensely competitive industry, one off shoot of that is that employers are able to keep the wage level down.

I certainly downloaded anime a good bit in college, I now understand the difficulties facing the companies and can afford to purchase them.

If you happen to be in a country that the Berne Convention doesn't apply than I accept you may not have many other options.

Knowing the damage this does and having the option of buying it I do believe makes a big difference here, ignoring those purposely does lead to me labeling as stealing.

ztoical

wildwildwest wrote: »

Please dont get all high and mighty about "stealing", everyone here has downloaded anime or manga online, alot of them still do. You have probably done it aswell.

Yes I have downloaded anime and manga but I also buy more anime and manga then the average consumer. It's nothing to do with it being legal or breaking laws, but with supporting an industry. I will download stuff that is not licensed here but in the case of manga I do buy the Japanese version from Japan and if it is licensed and translated into english I will buy that as well.

Do you speak Japanese? If not you are relying on other anime fans to fansub work for you and if there is no market outside Japan companies will stop licensing it companies in europe and america and it's those companies that are the back bone of fan conventions and comic cons....if they aren't bringing new stuff in there is nothing for them to promote so why spend a fortune going to and supporting cons, fewer fan gatherings means fewer new fans and fewer new fans means fewer people fansubing new work.

wildwildwest wrote: »

Also you act so high and mighty, yet all this money they make from selling DVDs and Blurays outside of Japan. How come the wages for workers in the industry havent increased? They still make very little.

Which workers do you mean? I've several friends working in the manga industry in Japan and they are all making a good living. Page rates in Japan are certainly higher then in other countries. Interns and assistants in Japan are at least paid while they usually aren't in the US. Voice actors in Japan are paid very well and american voice actors would be members of SAG and have union controlled wages. Animators both in and out of Japan are paid per foot of animation regardless of how the finished work is sold, there is an industry standard wage and if people chose to work below it that is their choice and nothing to do with the state of the industry.

gearoidof

Now, obviously I buy everything I watch (...)

BUT, supporting the industry is nice and all that, but this is them offering us a product in exchange for moolah.

I'm unwilling to pay for something unless it's of a decent enough quality, and unfortunately a lot of western DVD anime isn't up to standards.
My 3 problems with DVDs are:
1) Dubbing / subbing can be substandards
2) Delay
3) Patchy availability (i.e. content)

1) Generally speaking, the quality of dubbing and subbing isn't THAT much of a hindrance to me, but there are some quite shocking examples out there (none spring to mind). This isn't that much of a delay to me, tbh.
2) With old stuff, obviously this isn't a problem, but if I waited to buy Angel Beats (epic), then I'd be sitting on my ass for 6 months, so I download it 8 hours after it's aired on TV. Now, before you give out to me, if it's good enough, I'll buy it when it's out on DVD, but I'm DLing it too.
3) I'm a guy who doesn't follow the usual tastes for anime, which means that most anime I want to watch isn't available in England.

Art_Wolf

In terms of the fansubbing, Funanimation was explaining at Anime Boston how they usually had to change a lot so that people would actually understand what is going on. They said as they were redoing Dragon Ball Z that this wasn't such a problem anymore though.. hopefully subs are getting better

Burkie.EXE

If I was able to buy the stuff I want over here then I would. I'd even prefer to buy off ebay or amazon if it were possible, unfortunately I can't at the moment so I'm stuck with downloading.
There's an amazing sound novel called Umineko no Naku Koro ni that I absolutely love. I'd like nothing better than to have a hard copy and help out the company who makes it, but thats impossible so I have to get it off megaupload, which, although I still get to read the thing, it doesn't really sit well with me y'know?

Butterscotch

wildwildwest wrote: »

Also Japanese studios dont see the money they make from foreign countries as badly needed, since they make the series aimed at Japanese consumers not Foreign customers.

Well I learned from the Anime Film Festival that the Japanese anime indusrty is targeting foreign costumers as over the last past years anime sales have been dropping in Japan or something like that. They are desperate for foreign sales. That is the reason behind Danny Choo and Tokyo Pop.

K.O.Kiki

I have no problems with downloading a TV rip.
I do generally draw the line at DVD rips though.

My own reasoning is that a broadcast should have no restrictions on its diffusion.
And anyway, the DVDs have better animation, and are where the studios can ACTUALLY make profit.

ussjtrunks

The main problem with this argument is that companies bring out anime here on DVD over here, no matter how good a dvd is it is not even going to be comparable to even a hdtv broadcast episode.
If anime was released here on bluray I would buy it, Im going to buy fma brotherhood when its released on bluray.
I just dont see the point in buying a dvd months after the initial airing in japan and paying for worse quality

Varik

ussjtrunks wrote: »

The main problem with this argument is that companies bring out anime here on DVD over here, no matter how good a dvd is it is not even going to be comparable to even a hdtv broadcast episode.

A lot of the time those hd tv station are only up scaling their source video, it's better than the sd but a lot of fan-sub groups would still release the DVD rips (before most anime came on blu ray) as the DVD was better than the HD TV version.

ussjtrunks

yes its true that alot of animes are originally in sd and would be perfectly suitable to dvd , the big budget / popular animes we made with hd in mind ie code geass, gurren lagann, full metal alchemist brotherhood etc. I like the way that manga seem to be bringing alot of anime out on bluray in the coming months which i may buy , however I want code geass in hd and dont want to pay £40 per season of code geass to get worse quality than I could get online for free.

Varik

i saw a fan release group that does the English dubs with the Japanese blu ray HD video synced, not sure what i think of this, it can probably be place in the same league as if you download the DVD with fan-subs due to the dub and sub that are on the DVD not being up to your standard.

Blue_Seas

I personally see no problem with this if you are actually going to buy the DVDs when they are released. It's like buying some grapes in a supermarket when you're really hungry; you'll eat a few on the way to the checkout but when you get there you're still buying them. The supermarket didn't lose money and you got your grapes :pac: