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"Digital Rights Management drove me to Piracy"

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  • 06-04-2010 1:15am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 83,309 ✭✭✭✭


    http://consumerist.com/2010/04/insane-pc-game-drm-drove-me-to-piracy.html


    An anonymous gamer wrote in to tell us why he felt justified to illegally download a copy of Red Faction: Guerilla: He bought it on one computer but found the DRM locked him out of re-activating the game on his new computer. When customer service couldn't help him, he went rogue.
    He writes:

    I recently bought a copy of the PC game Red Faction Guerrilla. The game installed fine on my system and I played it for a bit until the hard drive it was on bit the dust. I replaced the hard drive and reinstalled the game. However, when you try to launch the game it gives you a DRM check where you have to enter your email address and cd-key and it will then connect to its authentication servers to allow you to play the game.
    However, when I tried to enter my info and hit ok, it would come back would a general error saying
    "There was a problem activating Red Faction Guerrilla. Could not start activation process."
    I tried contacting THQ/Volition the makers/publishers of the game and they could not help and instead told me to contact Games for Windows Live, who apparently runs the online checks as its incorporated into the game with this platform. I spoke to several Windows reps there who knew nothing about how to fix the issue, was hung up on several times, referred back and forth between THQ and then made to run through ridiculous steps to try and fix the issue, and finally told me there's nothing they can do to help.

    What I had to do instead is pretty sad considering I paid for a legit copy- I went to a torrent site and downloaded a cracked exe that let me bypass the security check and play the game the online portion of it.
    I could have pirated the game from the start but I chose to be honest and try and support these companies. What good did that do? As a result of paying for this game I was treated like garbage from the companies I bought it from who were unwilling and unable to help, and then had to turn to pirates because the DRM installed with the game prevented me from playing it.
    What is the point of paying for these games if you get no support from those you purchased it from and can get a better version for free by pirating it? I am in no way advocating piracy because its wrong and is hurting the industry, but the publishers and developers are in turn treating their paying customers like criminals and are just making them turn to piracy instead.




    How long will it take for these companies to cop the fcuk on and realise we'll pay for it if you don't fight us for it. I don't part with good money to get punched in the face when I try play Splinter Cell or Assassin's Creed. I wouldn't pay good money to have my hair pulled out just so I could play Spore (I'd just go get a haircut..)


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I dunno about that. There is ALOT of piracy going on even with games that dont have DRM and has been going on since before DRM.
    I dont pirate games an never have, probably since im hoping to eventually be a developer.
    However if a game has DRM similar to the recently released crap i simply wont buy it or i will get the console version


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭SeantheMan


    He was right too to download a copy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    It's funny... instead of finding new ways to get people to buy their goods, these gaming companies are screwing over the legit customer just to get to the pirates. The pirates will always be there, always. The games companies have shot themselves in the foot. It's quite funny to watch actually.

    Never again will I buy a game from activision, not because the games are bad, but that they insult my intelligence. They have the cheek to tell me, an avid gamer that their new server system has all the benifits of a dedicated server? They screwed themselves over there. And guess what? The pirates cracked the game anyway.

    Steam are doing a good job, they have a bit of cop on, now to get them to lower their prices a little.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Overheal wrote: »
    How long will it take for these companies to cop the fcuk on and realise we'll pay for it if you don't fight us for it.
    About the same length of time it takes users to stop rolling out this tired and flawed argument.

    You want to know one of the primary reasons why Ubisoft went to such lengths to introduce DRM? Because one of their biggest games of the last few years, Assassins Creed, was downloaded over one million times in 2007 alone. There was a game with no invasive DRM bundled in, it was just a high profile game which was released well before it's street date and all the cheap ****s out there went and downloaded it. They then had the audacity to whine when they came across hooks in the game which detected they had a pirated copy and wouldn't let them progress. Hooks, may I add, that didn't affect buyers of the retail game when it finally launched. (This may remind some of the rant from Iron Lore) What company wouldn't want to ramp up their efforts to try and reduce that figure?

    Now I can already hear the cries from some people, "but one downloaded copy doesn't mean one lost sale!" now I have one very simple reply to this, "Who the **** cares?". What gives people the right to steal a game just because they never intended buying it in the first place? Spoiler: It doesn't. The "try before you buy" argument is also amusing as, for everyone person who does use it, I see 10 people download it because it's free. Again, hardly a valid justification.

    Now, at the same time let me be very clear. While I understand Ubisoft's reaction to this, I do not, under any circumstances, agree with their new DRM system. You cannot knowingly penalise your customers for elements out of their control, whether it's their internet connection which goes down or their Ubi's own servers. In the case of the OP, if support really were that unhelpful then I don't blame him for downloading the cracked executable to play it. One the other hand, if that person tells their friend what happened and he goes and downloads the full game straight away then I do blame him as the chances of him being affected by a similar issue aren't exactly high.

    As has been highlighted several times on this forum before, there are DRM implementations that are non-intrusive and do the job quite well. As per usual, Steam is probably one of the best examples of this however, as I've also highlighted before, I don't think it's feasible for every publisher to implement a similar system for their titles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Bodhan


    Here's my take. I'm 38, I've lived through all the pirates. Tapes, floppys, cd's and now the internet.
    As long as there has been a media to copy there have been pirates, it all started with tape recorders, getting that song off the radio and copying an album.
    As long as a game can be copied it will be copied. The problem is PC games are falling down, more and more people are writing games for console only, and those like Ubisoft are putting DRM on their games. Most games for PC loose a fortune in sales to down-loaders.
    The best hope we have is a system like Steam, as annoying as it can be its the best game delivery system. The prices are off but they are not set by Valve, they are set by the developer. Its now the best hope we have of good games getting made.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    While, I understand piracy is bad, but punishing a paying customer is not the answer, which is what a lot of companies have resorted to. Piracy is no excuse for punishing a paying customer with broken DRM. Personally, I think DRM is just as bad as piracy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Games for Windows Live is an unmitigated disaster. There's a really good feature in the latest edition of Edge about just how bad it is - actually it's online too http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/should-games-for-windows-live-die


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Bodhan wrote: »
    Here's my take. I'm 38, I've lived through all the pirates. Tapes, floppys, cd's and now the internet.
    As long as there has been a media to copy there have been pirates, it all started with tape recorders, getting that song off the radio and copying an album.
    As long as a game can be copied it will be copied...
    Certainly agree with everything you've said, however, I do have one addition to the above piece. Even back when games came on floppy disks, there were many games that came with more primitive forms of DRM. For example, I remember Sam n Max had the costume selection system taken from various pages of the game's manual and the awesome wheel thing that came with the original Monkey Island titles.

    What we have now is an issue of escalation. While back then the most common case of pirating was you copying a disc and giving it to your mate, what we now have is one copy being uploaded to the net and being downloaded in huge numbers. With this increase came an escalation in the DRM being developed to protect it and now we're in the unfortunate position where even legitmate customers are being affected by it. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭muppetkiller


    DRM is what's killing PC Gaming.
    I wanted to pick up Silent Hunter 5 recently and read the reviews on Amazon and on the ubisoft forums so decided against it. Basically it requires you to be online at all times in order to play it. Which as you can imagine is nonsense especially if you have it on a laptop and move in and out of coverage while traveling.

    I wont be buying any Ubisoft PC games in Future until they remove these DRM measures.

    And to gizmo who said that Assasins Creed was downloaded 1,000,000 times ..I'd love to know where they pulled that figure from ? was it xbox or PC ? If I recall the PC version came out months (if not a year) after the xbox version so most pc gamers would not have been bothered with the game. There's lots of people who download games to see if it'll even run on their system (seeing as games like ARMA 2 haven't bothered to test against certain Graphics cards (4800 series) ) ..
    The fact that you can't return PC games doesn't help matters either with people trying before they buy. I like the idea of Serial keys via steam which has worked in the past. The only thing that wrecks my head about steam is buying the game in a store leaves you with a large pile of worthless boxes and cd's. Why they can't sell the code on a card like with xbox live points is beyond me. it'll save them money and maybe produce cheaper games for us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Bodhan


    DRM is what's killing PC Gaming.
    I wanted to pick up Silent Hunter 5 recently and read the reviews on Amazon and on the ubisoft forums so decided against it. Basically it requires you to be online at all times in order to play it. Which as you can imagine is nonsense especially if you have it on a laptop and move in and out of coverage while traveling.

    I wont be buying any Ubisoft PC games in Future until they remove these DRM measures.

    And to gizmo who said that Assasins Creed was downloaded 1,000,000 times ..I'd love to know where they pulled that figure from ? was it xbox or PC ? If I recall the PC version came out months (if not a year) after the xbox version so most pc gamers would not have been bothered with the game. There's lots of people who download games to see if it'll even run on their system (seeing as games like ARMA 2 haven't bothered to test against certain Graphics cards (4800 series) ) ..
    The fact that you can't return PC games doesn't help matters either with people trying before they buy. I like the idea of Serial keys via steam which has worked in the past. The only thing that wrecks my head about steam is buying the game in a store leaves you with a large pile of worthless boxes and cd's. Why they can't sell the code on a card like with xbox live points is beyond me. it'll save them money and maybe produce cheaper games for us.

    I agree that DRM and other measures are crap, they don't help the PC market one bit. I also agree with some of what you say. But I don't think there is one person out there who Try before they buy, they get the pirate game, they play it, they uninstall it. That's it, they don't buy the game after they have played it unless there's something in the game to make them want to move on. Something that unlocks or a patch they can't get so that they HAVE to buy the game. That means we are back to and internet connection or DRM. It's a catch 22, the only try before you buy people are downloading demos. Also there's no I want to see if it runs on my system people either, hours of downloading, install try it out. Oh it works, I'll uninstall it now and go to my local shop and buy a real copy of the game. This never happens.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    SeantheMan wrote: »
    He was right too to download a copy

    In fairness he only downloaded a crack, not the full game. I usually download cracks because I just can't be arsed switching discs. I see nothing wrong with cracks but I feel bad about pirating a full game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    Its a classic Chicken and Egg scenario....."DRM drove me to piracy" v's "Piracy drove us to use DRM".

    Who's right? Who's Wrong? My guess is its 6 of one and Half a dozen of the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    Was gonna comment but gizmo has highlighted exactly how I feel about this. people can bitch and whine about "oh, DRM is evil" but its there because PC gamers are stingy, whiny thieves....or at least the majority are.

    As for proof, 90% piracy rate on World of Goo . Granted this was before their "pay what you want" deal that saw a increase in sales but still shows, even if you release a great indie game, no DRM whatsoever, no publishers or anyhting, PC gamers will still go "no, it should be free ya stingy ****s".


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    DRM is what's killing PC Gaming.
    I wanted to pick up Silent Hunter 5 recently and read the reviews on Amazon and on the ubisoft forums so decided against it. Basically it requires you to be online at all times in order to play it. Which as you can imagine is nonsense especially if you have it on a laptop and move in and out of coverage while traveling.

    I wont be buying any Ubisoft PC games in Future until they remove these DRM measures.
    Either will I to be honest however the few people who feel that strongly about it are VASTLY out numbered by those who will pirate it regardless of the included security measures.
    And to gizmo who said that Assasins Creed was downloaded 1,000,000 times ..I'd love to know where they pulled that figure from ? was it xbox or PC ? If I recall the PC version came out months (if not a year) after the xbox version so most pc gamers would not have been bothered with the game.
    The stats were collated by one of the piracy news sites and were calculated based on figures from the larger public torrent sites. This of course doesn't include private torrent sites or usenet so the figure is far higher in reality.
    There's lots of people who download games to see if it'll even run on their system (seeing as games like ARMA 2 haven't bothered to test against certain Graphics cards (4800 series) ) ..
    If the card is listed on the box or website for the game then it has been tested, if it hasn't then it's a risk. In cases like these you could just wait to see have others found problems or if they've contacted the developers.
    The fact that you can't return PC games doesn't help matters either with people trying before they buy.
    A situation which exists due to the ease of piracy whether it's copying a disc or nicking the cd key from the box.
    sarumite wrote: »
    Its a classic Chicken and Egg scenario....."DRM drove me to piracy" v's "Piracy drove us to use DRM".

    Who's right? Who's Wrong? My guess is its 6 of one and Half a dozen of the other.
    Ah, that's an easy one. Piracy is wrong. Why? Because if piracy didn't exist or, at the very least, wasn't as widespread, then there wouldn't be a need for such invasive DRM. However, if DRM didn't exist, people would still pirate the hell out of games.

    Regarding the types of games that are pirated by the way, don't even bother trying to quantify them. I've seen IGF entries and other indie games pirated, Chime (the XBLA charity game) pirated and even, as has been highlighted before, Stardock/GPG games. There's a publisher/developer who catagorically states that they are against DRM yet still suffered debilitating problems with Demigod at launch due to the sheer number of pirated copies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Having recently installed Battlefield: Bad Company 2, I quite liked how it handled DRM, you had to choose authentication by having the disk in the drive while playing, or authenticate online. The online authentication way means that it just checks online, and then lets you play. It doesn't cut you off if you lose internet connectivity (I'm looking at you, UBISOFT!!!) so while you still had to register/authenticate the game online, you don't have to be constantly online to play it.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭yoyo


    While I do feel sympatetic Assasins Creed was pirated "1 million" times, why do Ubi expect pc gamers to pay full whack for a game that came out a year before on the consoles, fair enough I'm not condoning it, but if they want to release the game a year later, don't expect people to like a $60 price tag, I wonder how many sales Ubi have lost With Assasains Creed 2, SH5 and Settlers 7 due to this new drm out of interest?,

    Nick


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,309 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Thats another issue is the outrageous pricing model.

    But one thing I would like to add on Steam: I was considering buying Chaos Theory over xmas only to sleuth the steam forums and discover the PC version is such a woeful port it wouldnt have been worth my $4.

    http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&securitytoken=2f40c7ab1d7314b7735a964135df9b593e43ca34&f=383&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭yoyo


    Overheal wrote: »
    Thats another issue is the outrageous pricing model.

    But one thing I would like to add on Steam: I was considering buying Chaos Theory over xmas only to sleuth the steam forums and discover the PC version is such a woeful port it wouldnt have been worth my $4.

    http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&securitytoken=2f40c7ab1d7314b7735a964135df9b593e43ca34&f=383&page=1&pp=25&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

    Double Agent was a rubbish port alrite I remember people having huge problems with it, Chaos Theory one I have though was a good port imo, but comes with Starforce, a DRM that is so badly designed it doesnt work in Windows Vista/7 :rolleyes: (And no 64Bit OS allows it to install afaik due to severe security risks), More reasons why DRM is stupid,

    Nick

    Edit: It appears AC2s DRM is 100% cracked http://bit.ly/d33bEA, Found on Twitter, and Ubis forums are down :rolleyes: so I'm guessing servers are too


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    I am sure alot of you have read this before (in fact I'd wager I probably first came across it on this forum) but this is a great article on the issue of game piracy.

    http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

    In general I have little time for the 'Screw DRM I'm pirating it' argument, however in this particular case since he had a genuine unplayable copy of the game I have alot of sympathy for the guy.

    Ultimately though it is just yet another entry in the downloaded game column that Ubisoft and the like can point to as justification for their way OTT DRM systems.

    No offense to the poster who said it but :), but people who will 'only buy the console version of AC2' because of the DRM make me cry a little inside, that what they want you to do ;).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    yoyo wrote: »
    While I do feel sympatetic Assasins Creed was pirated "1 million" times, why do Ubi expect pc gamers to pay full whack for a game that came out a year before on the consoles, fair enough I'm not condoning it, but if they want to release the game a year later, don't expect people to like a $60 price tag, I wonder how many sales Ubi have lost With Assasains Creed 2, SH5 and Settlers 7 due to this new drm out of interest?,

    Nick

    Surely the only legitimate response if you find the price objectionable is to simply not buy it?

    hardly revolutionary thinking, i know, but given the levels of piracy here i think it bears repeating.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    yoyo wrote: »
    While I do feel sympatetic Assasins Creed was pirated "1 million" times, why do Ubi expect pc gamers to pay full whack for a game that came out a year before on the consoles, fair enough I'm not condoning it, but if they want to release the game a year later, don't expect people to like a $60 price tag, I wonder how many sales Ubi have lost With Assasains Creed 2, SH5 and Settlers 7 due to this new drm out of interest?,
    Nick
    While it was a pain to wait that long, the game was still as impressive (technically at least) as it was when it was released. This was also coupled with the higher quality assets that usually accompany a PC version. To claim it's unfair that it still cost $60 (which, may I add, it didn't as is also typical with PC versions) isn't really valid either as nothing was actually lost between the console and PC versions.

    As for lost sales, I'd say the number is large enough but, as I said above, still far less than what they probably lost with Assassins Creed before it was released. A similar point has been made before by many developers that a DRM implementation is considered a success (these days at least) if it remains uncracked for a week or two after retail release.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭yoyo


    gizmo wrote: »
    While it was a pain to wait that long, the game was still as impressive (technically at least) as it was when it was released. This was also coupled with the higher quality assets that usually accompany a PC version. To claim it's unfair that it still cost $60 (which, may I add, it didn't as is also typical with PC versions) isn't really valid either as nothing was actually lost between the console and PC versions.

    As for lost sales, I'd say the number is large enough but, as I said above, still far less than what they probably lost with Assassins Creed before it was released. A similar point has been made before by many developers that a DRM implementation is considered a success (these days at least) if it remains uncracked for a week or two after retail release.

    Most PC gamers these days have a 360 or/and a PS3 aswell. As Assassins Creed is a platform game designed for consoles, it would make more sense for a pc gamer to get it for another platform, rather than wait for a version in a years time with "higher resolutions". If looking at it money wise a second hand copy of AC would be much much lower than the PC copy at launch, due to it being out a year on the consoles, not to mention the game will more than likely be played with a controller on pc anyways, and Ubi didnt really put much else in the pc version bar higher resolutions which is a good thing but not worth €45 more considering the console version could be selling at around €14.99 second hand, it may be more, I'm honestly not sure but you get the point.

    Nick


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭L31mr0d


    before everyone starts rolling out the usual pro/con arguments of piracy, and the morality of it all, you have to understand that it's going no where. People won't change, if you can get something for free and get away with it people will do it.

    What the big game developers are doing at the moment is taking a leaf out of the Popes handbook for fighting aids in Africa, and instead of trying to work around the presence of piracy, they are trying to make it so that people choose to abstain from it altogether.

    This is moronic. If there are people out there that can figure out how to code DRM, there will be people out there who will be able to reverse engineer it and remove it. All this DRM malarky is doing is breeding uber hackers. The strain of hacker now wants the likes of Ubisoft to wave a red flag in front of them and give them a new challenge. All Ubisoft is doing is growing the piracy scene rather than reducing it. If I had a coding bone left in my body I'd join it myself to figure out how to stop and remove this rubbish that Ubi are putting into their games.

    They need to work around it, and like with Apple and iTunes and Valve with Steam work out a system that can co-exist alongside it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Bodhan wrote: »
    the only try before you buy people are downloading demos. Also there's no I want to see if it runs on my system people either, hours of downloading, install try it out. Oh it works, I'll uninstall it now and go to my local shop and buy a real copy of the game. This never happens.

    Actually I did just that with Arkham Asylum when I got a new PC. Just wanted to see if it would run because I had no idea if it would. It did. I bought it. Simple.

    I'd imagine the majority of pirates wouldn't buy the game anyway, I just don't buy trotting out figures like that for Assassin's Creed. It's gonna be cracked anyway, so DRM is just a waste of time. It's put me right off PC gaming. Very rarely do I play a non-console game anymore. I'm sure I'm missing out on some great stuff, and I was really excited about having a PC that could play the latest games for the first time ever, but it wasn't worth it at all thanks to this kind of rubbish.

    I hope they can find some sort of middleground, I do get that the developers and publishers don't want to lose money, but they're going to lose more in the long run with their current strategy.


  • Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    I still think price is a major factor. Games on Steam etc. are way over priced, considering the lower overheads. Yet, when they have a sale, people buy like crazy. Valve said it themselves.

    I don't know how many times I've heard people say they will by this game or that when the price drops, particularly in reference to Steam. Honestly I think a lot of people pirate as a big FU to greedy publishers. the "Looks like $1 = €1 after all" thread on steam has over 7000 posts and has been viewed nearly a million times. People are annoyed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83,309 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I still think price is a major factor. Games on Steam etc. are way over priced, considering the lower overheads. Yet, when they have a sale, people buy like crazy. Valve said it themselves.

    I don't know how many times I've heard people say they will by this game or that when the price drops, particularly in reference to Steam. Honestly I think a lot of people pirate as a big FU to greedy publishers. the "Looks like $1 = €1 after all" thread on steam has over 7000 posts and has been viewed nearly a million times. People are annoyed.
    Yeah but as an American Consumer (the Domestic Market for most publishers and hence the saner pricing schematic) steam works a treat, the sales are great, and I havent played a pirated game in quite some time.

    Only most recently did I download Call of Duty 1. Why? Because I have the Discs, the Box, The Manual, the Key - but the 2nd disc is scratched, and the Installation is corrupted >.<


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I still think price is a major factor. Games on Steam etc. are way over priced, considering the lower overheads. Yet, when they have a sale, people buy like crazy. Valve said it themselves.

    I don't know how many times I've heard people say they will by this game or that when the price drops, particularly in reference to Steam. Honestly I think a lot of people pirate as a big FU to greedy publishers. the "Looks like $1 = €1 after all" thread on steam has over 7000 posts and has been viewed nearly a million times. People are annoyed.

    I would love to know why the majority of game publishers on steam seem to be completely oblivious to this rather obvious point. There is a large market out there for PC game sales when consumers do not feel like they are being completely ripped off for the privilege of a digital purchase.


  • Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    marco_polo wrote: »
    I would love to know why the majority of game publishers on steam seem to be completely oblivious to this rather obvious point. There is a large market out there for PC game sales when consumers do not feel like they are being completely ripped off for the privilege of a digital purchase.

    It's just pure greed. Stupid limited editions, DLC - all greed. Look at Activision's antics of late. I can think of only one motivation for the shenanigans at IW.

    These big publishers only care about milking every last cent out of customers. I don't mind publishers trying to make money but I don't like being screwed. They don't treat their customers with respect. Now with Ubisoft's DRM, they have gone to a new low - actually treating their customers with contempt. How many companies in any industry, force all of their customers to put up with a "feature" that is universally hated by them, while ignoring their complaints.

    The world needs more Valve-like companies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Maximilian wrote: »
    I still think price is a major factor. Games on Steam etc. are way over priced, considering the lower overheads. Yet, when they have a sale, people buy like crazy. Valve said it themselves.
    Maximilian wrote: »

    The world needs more Valve-like companies.


    The Blood god does not compute your logic.

    Valve games are cheaper in a shop with all the production costs and distribution etc etc.


    valve ****ed up other than the steam sales only fanboys buy valves latest games from them on day 1. Its always cheaper to go to a shop and buy it. Its basically doing an Activision and saying FU to your fans.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    Maximilian wrote: »
    It's just pure greed. Stupid limited editions, DLC - all greed. Look at Activision's antics of late. I can think of only one motivation for the shenanigans at IW.

    These big publishers only care about milking every last cent out of customers. I don't mind publishers trying to make money but I don't like being screwed. They don't treat their customers with respect. Now with Ubisoft's DRM, they have gone to a new low - actually treating their customers with contempt.

    Well...too be blunt...why shouldnt they?? I mean, their customer base (PC gamers) show massive contempt by claiming their work isnt worth their precious precious money, as was shown in the link marco_polo gave that the pirate versions of Ubisofts DRM-free Assassins Creed was over 1 million. They obviously wanted the game, otherwise they wouldnt have pirated it. It wasnt "to try it/demo it" as otherwise there would have been more sales. Now granted ubisofts new strategy is bag-of-cats retarded (they should have had a short grace period in case of internet drop-off, lord knows mine does it incessantly) but there is only two other ways to prevent piracy: make it hard to obtain (like shutting down torrent sites....look how well that worked :rolleyes: ) or have REAL reprecussions for pirating. None of us here would walk into a store and nick stuff as there could be a far stronger security guy at the door or the prospect of CCTV + Gardaí = fun times in jail, same cant be said for digital piracy, since no Torrent site would give out or even track users info/IP address.

    The plain and simple reason is that the pirates are greedy too, in that a company has the outright gall to ask them for money in exchange for a product they want!!!!!! Honestly, if someone ever brings up the whole "greedy publisher/developer" argument in a piracy discussion I fall around laughing at the sheer hypocrisy of the statement


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