Manchester United vs. FC Bayern München - Champions League Q/Final 2nd Leg

Boskowski

vs.

UEFA Champions League
(1 - 2)

Manchester - Old Trafford
Wednesday, April 7th 2010
7:45pm

Boskowski

Whats the story with Rooney. Is he playing or not?

abouttobebanned

Nope.

token56

Boskowski wrote: »

Whats the story with Rooney. Is he playing or not?

Latest report is that he did not participate in training today so certainly wont be match fit in time. Looks like he is out.

Vanbis

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Nope.

Rooney won't be back until the Man City game and anyone who thinks he will make the bench for wednesday will be left disappointed.

I fear for Manutd on wednesday, i can't see us winning and going through.

Ush1

I thought they would go through before the Chelsea game, not so sure now...

Boskowski

Ush1 wrote: »

I thought they would go through before the Chelsea game, not so sure now...

I do understand that ManU supporters like to get ahead of themselves, but I didn't realize they were time-travelers as well...

Ush1

Boskowski wrote: »

I do understand that ManU supporters like to get ahead of themselves, but I didn't realize they were time-travelers as well...

As in before watching the Chelsea game. And I hate Man U thanks.;)

abouttobebanned

Never under estimate man utd.

Ush1

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Never under estimate man utd.

:rolleyes:
Don't they usually say that about the Germans?

abouttobebanned

Who is "they"?

And thank Christ I can't see that godforsaken smiley on the phone.

Ush1

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Who is "they"?

And thank Christ I can't see that godforsaken smiley on the phone.

Probably the same people who over estimated Man. United before the first leg?

keane2097

Ush1 wrote: »

Probably the same people who over estimated Man. United before the first leg?

The same people who overestimated Man United were warning people not to underestimate the Germans?

Keep taking the pills there Ush1

Mitch Connor

back to this crap again?

United were shocking against Bayern in the first leg - it wasn't that Bayern were a much better side than we gave them credit for, it was that United didn't do their jobs correctly. Bayern deserved to win, no doubt, but it was a terrible performance from United, and that was not due to Bayern forcing that.

If United had played like they can play, they would have got a result vs Bayern. Hell, even playing crap we had 2 or 3 other great chances to score.

As it stands, United need to massively improve the performance from the last two games vs Bayern and Chelsea, get back to defending well and passing well (which has been rubbish in the last two games). If United don't do that, we don't have a hope - Bayern aren't going to be beaten by crap.

Even if United do play to standard, it will still be a tough game - as Bayern don't have to win, and Ribery/Robben on the counter will be a massive threat. For me, Bayern are now favourites for the tie, but that has been brought about by United putting in a shocking display. It happens, loads of teams that are actually good put in crap performances on occassions. Sure Real Madrid got hammered by an ametuer side earlier in the season, does that mean the other side are actually a better team than Madrid? Chelsea drew vs Blackburn the other week - are Blackburn now as good a side as Chelsea?

Getting fed up with people saying United were found out vs Bayern, United were terrible that night, doesn't actually make them a terrible team or one that had been fooling the footballing world.

keane2097

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Bayern deserved to win, no doubt, but it was a terrible performance from United, and that was not due to Bayern forcing that.

The one thing I'd say about that, as I mentioned on the United thread, is that Bayern's pressing game really upset United.

If, as I suspect will happen, Bayern look to sit back and hit us on the counter-attack rather than pressing us high up the field again I think we'll have a lot more joy.

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

The one thing I'd say about that, as I mentioned on the United thread, is that Bayern's pressing game really upset United.

If, as I suspect will happen, Bayern look to sit back and hit us on the counter-attack rather than pressing us high up the field again I think we'll have a lot more joy.

Personally I think the passing was just crap, even when we had time to find a pass we either went for the wrong pass (some crazy passes in and around the box) or played it out/to a bayern player. there was just no composure to the play from United. That continued vs Chelsea. Sure, the pressing may have contributed to it, but it was crap regardless imo.

Spud83

Really looking forward to this game but it is with a very nervous excitement. I said before the Bayern game that it would be two tough games, but I expect us to go trough. I still expect us to go through because I will always back us to do the job at Old Trafford.

Players need to pick themselves up though, terrible against Bayern, but I actually think we played better against Chelsea, especially for 30-40 minutes. We need to replicate that 30-40 for 90 minutes against Bayern. Losing two games in a row is bad for United, three games is a disaster. I can actually see this one heading to OT though.

---

VDS

---

Rafeal----Rio

---

Vidic---Evra

---

Carrick

---

---

Fletcher

---

Park

---

-Valenica

---

Nani---

---

Berbatov

---

It will be 4-5-1, Fergie will not go 4-4-2 for this, not at the start because A) we don't really have a second striker to rely up top, and out central midfield has been poor with three players, reducing it two won't help.

I've dropped the entire old guard. Better for them to be held back and try change the game if needed, rather than from the start when more energy will be required to get a foothold in the game. As for Neville, well I just don't want him in the team, Ribery killed him last week and would do the same again. O'Shea trained today but its probably too early for him, though I'd be happy to see line up.

I'll go for 2-1 united to take it to extra time, probably a last ten minute goal to take it there (scored by Berbatov), with Vidic getting the first. Scholes to settle the tie in extra time. Very specific I know.

JP Liz V1

Rooney might be on the bench

JPA

Rooney will NOT play, Ferguson has just said. - SSN

steps_3314

Utd will up their game here i feel and beat Munich.

Alot of people are expecting Bayern to go through and this will suit Utd.

Remember Roma a few seasons back when it was a nervy second leg and Utd "battered" em.

It may not be the same scoreline but the end result will be the same.

Cant see Rooney featuring though but it is a good sign that he is being considered so he should help trying to catch Chelsea.

Only time will tell.

The midfield needs a huge game tomorrow night. Dont let Bayern pass the ball as much. Make them do the running this time and use the width more.

Prediction 3-1

Samba

As a United supporter, I'd like to wish Bayern GL in the Semis.

Particularly if Park starts, he's been off these past few games imo.

Every attacking move broke down in and around Park in the Chelsea game, he takes too much time to get the ball under control and give a nice crisp and clean pass, Bayern will not give him the time he needs to sort his feet out.

---

VDS

---

Rafeal----Rio

---

Vidic---Evra

---

Carrick

---

---

Fletcher

---

Scholes

---

-Nani

---

Giggs---

---

Berbatov

---

Start Giggs out wide and if his legs aren't up for the task, bring in Obertan or shift Nani back to left and bring Valencia (who has also been quite poor as of late imo)

Nani deserves his place in this game imo.

Pro. F

I'm wondering will Fergie play both Kiko and Berbatov together for this, considering that we have so few good CM options. It would be dependent on if Kiko is actually ready for a full game.

If they both played then Berba could drop deep and have the ball played more directly to him to build attacks, sort of route one style. Not pretty (a bit embarrassing even) but maybe our best option if Fergie has lost faith in the CMs.
Just a possible option.

Bukman13

Samba wrote: »

As a United supporter, I'd like to wish Bayern GL in the Semis.

Particularly if Park starts, he's been off these past few games imo.

Every attacking move broke down in and around Park in the Chelsea game, he takes too much time to get the ball under control and give a nice crisp and clean pass, Bayern will not give him the time he needs to sort his feet out.

---

VDS

---

Rafeal----Rio

---

Vidic---Evra

---

Carrick

---

---

Fletcher

---

Scholes

---

-Nani

---

Giggs---

---

Berbatov

---

Start Giggs out wide and if his legs aren't up for the task, bring in Obertan or shift Nani back to left and bring Valencia (who has also been quite poor as of late imo)

Nani deserves his place in this game imo.

Laughable tbh.

How did every one of our attacks break down through Park. He had a pass success rate of 88%, only giving the ball away 3 times. Where as Giggs gave the ball away 14 times (12 open play, 1 corner, and 1 cross). Giggs shouldn't be anywhere near the starting line up.

Ush1

keane2097 wrote: »

The same people who overestimated Man United were warning people not to underestimate the Germans?

Keep taking the pills there Ush1

Exactly my point, not me that needs the pills. Don't make me keep using this smiley.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Le King

Valenica has to play.


And great post Mitch on the first page spot on.


Shame I predict a 1-1 for this game.

Spud83

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm wondering will Fergie play both Kiko and Berbatov together for this, considering that we have so few good CM options. It would be dependent on if Kiko is actually ready for a full game.

If they both played then Berba could drop deep and have the ball played more directly to him to build attacks, sort of route one style. Not pretty (a bit embarrassing even) but maybe our best option if Fergie has lost faith in the CMs.
Just a possible option.

Na, it won't happen. Fergie won't lose faith with the CM's because of two games. He will still trust them to get the job done, and Kiko will be held back, only to be brought on if we need to score with 30 minutes to go, or we have somehow demolished Bayern and he wants to rest Berbatov.

Onecoolcookie

I'd like to see something like this, I think we really need to go for it and we saw on Saturday that Berba isn't effective as a lone striker, we can close the game out later by putting on another CM but I think we need to go for it in the first half and try and get an early lead. Also Neville will get torn apart by Robben and Ribery so Rafael's pace is needed at right back

---

VDS

---

Rafael----Rio

---

Vidic---Evra

---

Fletcher

---

Carrick

---

--Nani

---

Valencia---

---

Berbatov

---

Macheda

---

Mitch Connor

For me, Valencia and Nani both have to start. Would play those two, and a midfield of Fletcher, Scholes and Park. Would like to see us go 442 and go for it, but it ain't going to happen - and we don't really have the players for it.

Boskowski

Like I said on the other thread...

...Utd are still favourites for me.

They have the experience, they got a good result with that important away goal and they have the home advantage. And they are Manchester United, giants of Europe. Last week or what happened in the Chelsea game will have no bearing on this tie.

On the other hand I expect Munich to have a much stronger midfield out on Wednesday. Schweinsteiger and Robben would make a difference. And of course they're one up. Bayern won't have to come out all guns blazing and with every minute on the clock Utd will have to open up more and Bayern will be dangerous on the breaks anyway.

Just looked at sport1.de and fcb.de and Bayern are booming with confidence. They were never afraid Of Utd anyway. Which can be either good or bad. Not sure myself.
Rummenigge thinks Utd are favourites and is trying hard to put the players into the right frame of mind.

Looking forward to this big time. Should go down into the history of the great Utd-Munich tussles no matter what happens in the end.

Here is my team for the night.

---

Butt

---

Lahm

---

van Buyten--Demichelis---Badstuber

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Pranjic

---

van Bommel

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--Schweinsteiger

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Ribery----

---

Olic

---

Gomez

---

Robben & Klose to come on later if needed.

Forza FCB!

Ush1

Still think United can do it, and probably will but makes it interesting. Could it be a Chelseaesque bowing out?

Pro. F

Spud83 wrote: »

Na, it won't happen. Fergie won't lose faith with the CM's because of two games. He will still trust them to get the job done, and Kiko will be held back, only to be brought on if we need to score with 30 minutes to go, or we have somehow demolished Bayern and he wants to rest Berbatov.

As I said, it's just a possibility, only that. I don't think it's sensible to make any prediction of line up or formation with much confidence. If Fergie has shown us anything over the past few years in Europe, it's that he's willing to mix it up and change things for particular matches.

Onecoolcookie wrote: »

we saw on Saturday that Berba isn't effective as a lone striker

I didn't see that. I've just heard a lot of people being wrong in the assumption that that's what we saw.

Mitch Connor

Onecoolcookie wrote: »

we saw on Saturday that Berba isn't effective as a lone striker

Personally, I think a more accurate description would be that we saw on saturday that Berba isn't effective as a lone striker when the midfield can't pass the ball or hold on to possession at all.

UnitedIrishman

I imagine we're going to start 4-5-1 to begin with. Most likely the same team as Chelsea but would have Nani in for Giggs.

Really don't know which way this game is going to go. If United turn up like they did on Saturday, we'll be out of Europe by 10pm on Wednesday. It's going to take a massive effort I think and it could well go to ET because I worry about our defence dealing with Gomez/Ribery/Robben.

Midfield needs to do a hell of a lot more than it was doing in the away leg whilst a lot will rest on the shoulders of Berbatov up front.

Prediction: 3-1 United AET.

Pro. F

Jesus Mitch, your like me shadow

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

Jesus Mitch, your like me shadow

Incorrect. I'm closer to you than that. I like to think of myself as your second skin.
how creepy and weird is that... mwhahahahaha

Ush1

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I imagine we're going to start 4-5-1 to begin with. Most likely the same team as Chelsea but would have Nani in for Giggs.

Crucial. He showed a distinct lack of energy against of Chelsea.

As I've said before, when Giggs and Scholes play in the same side Man. United don't press as well.

Bukman13

The key for Wednesday game is tempo.

In the first leg United were dropping off and basically allowing Bayern to play it around us, no-one put any pressure on the player in possession it was too easy for Bayern, and even at that Bayern were fairly wasteful, most of the time playing long balls over the top or delivering poor crosses.

The biggest problem was that when ever we won possession back, everybody bar Rooney was behind the ball giving us no easy option, and it usually meant a long punt up to Rooney.

We need a complete change in attitude, we need to press much higher up the pitch and press the ball carrier forcing them into mistakes. Someone mentioned the Roma game, for the first 10mins both Smith and Rooney chased the ball and we overwhelmed them within 20mins.

If we can press higher up the pitch, and win the ball back inside the Bayern half, it will provide a better platform to attack upon.

Samba

Giggs was terrible, but I'll take Giggs over Park anyday.

3 passes, you need to rewatch the Chelsea game tbh, Park quite simply couldn't cope with the pressure Chelsea put on him.

Bukman13

Samba wrote: »

Giggs was terrible, but I'll take Giggs over Park anyday.

3 passes, you need to rewatch the Chelsea game tbh, Park quite simply couldn't cope with the pressure Chelsea put on him.

Giggs only managed 2 crosses in the whole 90mins, Nani who had less than 20mins managed 3 crosses.

Giggs played too centrally which meant the midfield became even more crowded than it should have been especailly as Berbatov was coming deep, it effectively meant we were playing 5 in midfield.

We needed our two wide players to open up the pitch and give our midfielders some space and Nani provided that almost straight away.

Boskowski

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Getting fed up with people saying United were found out vs Bayern, United were terrible that night, doesn't actually make them a terrible team or one that had been fooling the footballing world.

I think I said that. But I didn't mean that they were fooling the football world.

What I meant was that Manu seems on a bit of a slope. And now that I think about it...

- Ronaldo has not been replaced adequately.
- Some nasty long term injuries. (e.g. Hargeaves was 25 mill out the window effectively)
- A good few players are still great players but age-wise def'ny on the way out. Their (supposed) replacements don't seem to have the same quality.
- Overall the team seems to live of experience rather than quality (of course such a statement must be put into perspective - I'm talking about "lack of quality" with regards to their own very high standards)
- No flair. It has become a boring old Manchester United. No Cantona, no Beckham, no Ronaldo. No 'wow' factor.

If nothing happens Manchester may not be able to retain their dominant position in Europe and even in England and this just may be the start of it.

Now some of what I say here may seem a bit superficial but thats just the impression I'm getting.

keane2097

Boskowski wrote: »

I think I said that. But I didn't mean that they were fooling the football world.

What I meant was that Manu seems on a bit of a slope. And now that I think about it...

- Ronaldo has not been replaced adequately.
- Some nasty long term injuries. (e.g. Hargeaves was 25 mill out the window effectively)
- A good few players are still great players but age-wise def'ny on the way out. Their (supposed) replacements don't seem to have the same quality.
- Overall the team seems to live of experience rather than quality (of course such a statement must be put into perspective - I'm talking about "lack of quality" with regards to their own very high standards)
- No flair. It has become a boring old Manchester United. No Cantona, no Beckham, no Ronaldo. No 'wow' factor.

If nothing happens Manchester may not be able to retain their dominant position in Europe and even in England and this just may be the start of it.

Now some of what I say here may seem a bit superficial but thats just the impression I'm getting.

This is just so ridiculous.

You're talking about the team that have won the last three PLs and been in the last two CL finals like!

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

This is just so ridiculous.

You're talking about the team that have won the last three PLs and been in the last two CL finals like!

i'd agree with him to be honest.

We do lack flair now Ronaldo is gone.

We are relying on older players, Scholes and Giggs, who are relying on their experience more and more.

I would agree that United need an overhaul in midfield in particular - Fletcher is really the only midfielder I would trust week in week out.

Pro. F

Bukman13 wrote: »

Giggs only managed 2 crosses in the whole 90mins, Nani who had less than 20mins managed 3 crosses.

Giggs played too centrally which meant the midfield became even more crowded than it should have been especailly as Berbatov was coming deep, it effectively meant we were playing 5 in midfield.

We needed our two wide players to open up the pitch and give our midfielders some space and Nani provided that almost straight away.

to be fair when Nani came on we had already established a foothold in possession and a bit of dominance so he had a much easier job. If he had played from the start he probably would have ended up looking poor too.

Also Giggs didn't just drift in off his wing, he swapped with Park and moved in permanently for a lot of the game. I'm not saying that Giggs didn't play poorly, he did, just that Nani did have it easier when he came on.

Bukman13

Boskowski wrote: »

- No flair. It has become a boring old Manchester United. No Cantona, no Beckham, no Ronaldo. No 'wow' factor.

I think you're forgetting that we have...Diouf .

keane2097 wrote: »

This is just so ridiculous.

You're talking about the team that have won the last three PLs and been in the last two CL finals like!

I think there is some truth in his point, but certainly not to the extent he has portrayed it.

Boskowski

keane2097 wrote: »

This is just so ridiculous.

You're talking about the team that have won the last three PLs and been in the last two CL finals like!

Ye I knew this was going to happen. Read again.
See what I didn't do there was asking whether ManU was finished or something. I was wondering will Manchester be able to continue their spell of utter domination in Europe and in England? Which isn't exactly saying they're Championship material now is it?

keane2097

Boskowski wrote: »

Ye I knew this was going to happen. Read again.
See what I didn't do there was asking whether ManU was finished or something. I was wondering will Manchester be able to continue their spell of utter domination in Europe and in England? Which isn't exactly saying they're Championship material now is it?

Oh right.

So you were being deliberately ambiguous and waiting for an overreaction - is that what you're saying?

keane2097

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i'd agree with him to be honest.

We do lack flair now Ronaldo is gone.

We are relying on older players, Scholes and Giggs, who are relying on their experience more and more.

I would agree that United need an overhaul in midfield in particular - Fletcher is really the only midfielder I would trust week in week out.

He's essentially saying United are on a slippery slope to mediocrity.

Last Monday we weren't.

If poeple think losing two games 2-1 to top sides has suddenly pushed us off the cliff I'm at a loss as to what to say tbh.

Ush1

keane2097 wrote: »

He's essentially saying United are on a slippery slope to mediocrity.

Last Monday we weren't.

If poeple think losing two games 2-1 to top sides has suddenly pushed us off the cliff I'm at a loss as to what to say tbh.

Didn't see him say that. If anything it looks like you're over reacting thinking they are above criticism, listing what they have won etc... He's saying they're aren't as strong as before and may need changes.

Boskowski

keane2097 wrote: »

Oh right.

So you were being deliberately ambiguous and waiting for an overreaction - is that what you're saying?

Ok, maybe its my fault. Maybe I was accidentally ambiguous and got an overreaction.

Rephrasing it so.
Are Manchester past their prime and look like they have missed opportunities to line up good enough successors in order to continue their domination of English and European football? May there be a few quieter years coming up?

Edit: And when I say 'quieter' I mean 'quieter' coming from domination. Meaning maybe just a few CL quarter finals finishes or so, maybe not winning the EPL. I don't mean quieter as in playin' with Blackburn for a Europa league spot.

keane2097

Ush1 wrote: »

Didn't see him say that.

Boskowski wrote: »

What I meant was that Manu seems on a bit of a slope. And now that I think about it...

...

If nothing happens Manchester may not be able to retain their dominant position in Europe and even in England and this just may be the start of it.

My point is that last week - before the Bayern game - United were looking like the mutt's nuts.

They've lost two tough, tight games and all of a sudden the heralds of doom come crawling out of the woodwork.

If United had drawn the last two games would people still be saying United are on the downslope?

Irishcrx

Bukman13 wrote: »

I think you're forgetting that we have...Diouf .



I think there is some truth in his point, but certainly not to the extent he has portrayed it.

Actually I forgot about him, is he match fit? Big lad and lightning quick, might be a good option to spring in the last 30 mins if Macheda is lacking match fitness..