Manchester United vs. FC Bayern München - Champions League Q/Final 2nd Leg

Johner

What's all this "typical Germans" from Fergie, anyway? Did they put a beach towel over Fergie's seat in the dugout an hour before kick off?

Johner

Johner wrote: »

What's all this "typical Germans" from Fergie, anyway? Did they put a beach towel over Fergie's seat in the dugout an hour before kick off?

Johner doesn't

Pro. F

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Turning point for me was when Rafael had Rooney inside him and chose to go it alone. Would probably have killed off the game. Not sure if Dunphy's contention that the era of Fergie is over but it is probably coming to an end.

if Fergie buys one or two quality central midfielders in the summer we will be straight back on top.

nullzero

Johner wrote: »

Robben's celebration was ace.

I have no time for him at all.
He's always been a fan of the old simulation which boils my blood (I could bear Ronaldo's messing when he was at United).
His comments after the Ireland v Holland friendly a few years ago were highly disrepectful of both Ireland as a footballing nation (As vague a thing as that may be) and Ireland as a country and a people.
He has no class, and while he's a useful player I just can't stand him and wish him only the worst in his career to a level which I'd only replicate in reference to John Terry.

BERBA

newballsplease wrote: »

Neville whos having a nitemare lately? and the handball leading up to the freekick in the 1st game?

my my how the tide turns on a united great !...tut tut

OPENROAD

Pro. F wrote: »

Just on Ferguson's post match comments:
He asked for a massive physical and mental commitment from his players tonight and he absolutely got it. He's right to praise his players and say that the other team were just lucky (and even a bit shady). The fact that it's untrue is irrelevant. He has started the process of rebuilding the players' confidence, he's made them feel hard done by and he has re-affirmed his faith in them. The fact that he has drawn flak onto himself is just an added bonus, Carrington will feel like a fortress over the next few days when the press start going crazy. It's pieces of brilliance like this that have made him so successful.

Thought the German comment was poor, though you are right, he is drawing the flak from himself just as Wenger does though strangely that is never acknowledged instead people say he is a bad loser etc..

recylingbin

Just like last night, football was the real winner here.

nullzero

Pro. F wrote: »

Just on Ferguson's post match comments:
He asked for a massive physical and mental commitment from his players tonight and he absolutely got it. He's right to praise his players and say that the other team were just lucky (and even a bit shady). The fact that it's untrue is irrelevant. He has started the process of rebuilding the players' confidence, he's made them feel hard done by and he has re-affirmed his faith in them. The fact that he has drawn flak onto himself is just an added bonus, Carrington will feel like a fortress over the next few days when the press start going crazy. It's pieces of brilliance like this that have made him so successful.

Oh yeah? What's this Fergie character ever achieved in the game?
Only joking BTW.
You're bang on there. The first half, 11 v 11, United destroyed Bayern.
Bayern had more than a little bit of good fortune.

Fergie has hopefully(from a United perspective) forged a siege mentality with his players which might hopefully help us retain the title should Chelsea slip up.

ntlbell

nullzero wrote: »

I have no time for him at all.
He's always been a fan of the old simulation which boils my blood (I could bear Ronaldo's messing when he was at United).
His comments after the Ireland v Holland friendly a few years ago were highly disrepectful of both Ireland as a footballing nation (As vague a thing as that may be) and Ireland as a country and a people.
He has no class, and while he's a useful player I just can't stand him and wish him only the worst in his career to a level which I'd only replicate in reference to John Terry.

irish abu's forget very quickly

nullzero

Pro. F wrote: »

Just on Ferguson's post match comments:
He asked for a massive physical and mental commitment from his players tonight and he absolutely got it. He's right to praise his players and say that the other team were just lucky (and even a bit shady). The fact that it's untrue is irrelevant. He has started the process of rebuilding the players' confidence, he's made them feel hard done by and he has re-affirmed his faith in them. The fact that he has drawn flak onto himself is just an added bonus, Carrington will feel like a fortress over the next few days when the press start going crazy. It's pieces of brilliance like this that have made him so successful.

Oh yeah? What's this Fergie character ever achieved in the game?
Only joking BTW.
You're bang on there. The first half, 11 v 11, United destroyed Bayern.
Bayern had more than a little bit of good fortune.

Fergie has hopefully(from a United perspective) forged a siege mentality with his players which might hopefully help us retain the title should Chelsea slip up. It's as much as he can do in the circumstances and it's hardly the first time his demise has been foretold after a defeat.

Mr Alan

everyone know's wat Ferguson is doing, however, there is still a line that ya shouldn't cross. ridiculous comments like his ones tonight are 'beyond the pale' as he himself would say.

newballsplease

BERBA wrote: »

my my how the tide turns on a united great !...tut tut

Neville is/was a utd great. I feel he is past it now. Upmost respect for him, but there comes a time when a player isnt up to scratch anymore. Neville in particular hasnt the pace.

nullzero

Mr Alan wrote: »

everyone know's wat Ferguson is doing, however, there is still a line that ya shouldn't cross. ridiculous comments like his one's tonight are 'beyond the pale' as he himself would say.

And that's a "fact".
people in glas houses.
All managers have moments of stupidity, we should all get used to it.

Congrats on you're seeing United fail, I hope it was a lot of fun for you.

OPENROAD

nullzero wrote: »

And that's a "fact".
people in glas houses.
All managers have moments of stupidity, we should all get used to it.

Congrats on you're seeing United fail, I hope it was a lot of fun for you.

Though I'm sure that they will be pointed out by people especially when it is not there manager.

SDTimeout

nullzero wrote: »

I have no time for him at all.
He's always been a fan of the old simulation which boils my blood (I could bear Ronaldo's messing when he was at United).

Just curious as to how you could bear it when its your own player but seem to be so against the old simulation as it boils your blood.

Seems a bit odd

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Ush1

SDTimeout wrote: »

Just curious as to how you could bear it when its your own player but seem to be so against the old simulation as it boils your blood.

Seems a bit odd

It's called being a hypocrite.

Kirnsy

nullzero wrote: »

And that's a "fact".
people in glas houses.
All managers have moments of stupidity, we should all get used to it.

Congrats on you're seeing United fail, I hope it was a lot of fun for you.

I hate the way any criticism of United is construed as being ANYONE BUT UNITED. Jesus there would be a lot more constructive discussion around here if people were able to take a bit of criticism and counter argue as opposed to just presuming everyone's out to get their club.

Mr Alan

Iolar wrote: »

What did Fergie actually say?

Ze Germans cheated!

GLaDOS

Heh, Fergie makes mad comments and he's drawing flak. Benitez does it and he's losing it.

SDTimeout

Ush1 wrote: »

It's called being a hypocrite.

When robben scores 40+ goals in a season he's allowed to simulate :pac:

Not going out picking flaws either btw, robben is one of my favourite players in the game and still very young.

recylingbin

Iolar wrote: »

What did Fergie actually say?

some time ago

Sir Alex Ferguson has achieved all there is to achieve at the highest level of the English game, and he's still going strong after more than 20 years as manager of Manchester United.

Kick It Out caught up with him to talk about his experiences and find out his thoughts on racism in football.

You're known as a great motivator. How do you motivate young black players to overcome racism?
All people will come up against barriers in life. The first thing you think is "I don't deserve this." But you have to be determined to overcome it. You've got to have a sort of blinkered approach to it, and think, "This is not going to stop me".

The situation today is better than it was 20 years ago, and 20 years ago it was better than 30 year ago. So progress eventually eliminates a lot of what is going on.

But when the prejudice stops people getting a job, puts them out of a job, or stops them getting a place on the team because of their colour, that is real racism to me.

When Eric Cantona reacted to racist abuse at Crystal Palace a few years ago he was suddenly a hero to lots of people. Do you think it's important for players to take a stand?
It's a great thing to take a stand against racism. At first I thought Eric would have to leave because of that incident but you can't just condemn a man because he lost his temper, no matter how bad it looks to the media.

What you've got to measure is what it was like in the past. Viv Anderson was the first black player to be capped for England. That was a big step.

And I remember when John Barnes went to Goodison Park, and they threw bananas at him, I never understood that.

Football is obviously a source of good for bringing people together, and dealing with things like racism. Why is it so powerful?
Football is the best vehicle to handle most ills in the world, simply because it's the most participatory sport in the world, and it's the most keenly watched sport in the world.

It creates a fervour among fans, and people's identities are interwoven into a club, from their grandfather to their father. It can be the most dominant part of people's lives, the whole strength of their life can be in the football ground.

To young kids, footballers are heroes, and if heroes are saying ,"racism, I'm not into that, I respect everyone", it has an effect. Football is the strongest vehicle in the world.


If you had the power to change things what would you want to change?
I think it's all down to education and how people are brought up. I was brought up in a family where there was never any prejudice. I think education from the family and school are the most important things.

If parents are saying to their kids "Don't play with that Charlie down the road because he is black," what message does that give? I think education is the secret.

Could you see a black coach taking over the manager's role at Old Trafford?
I can see black people involved in all positions. I have no doubt about that. You can't beat quality or progress.

Let's be honest it's not a bad world we're living in but we can make it better with education. It transcends everything.


Tonight

Typical bloody Germans

jaykay74

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ze Germans cheated!

No its not

Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson on Rafael's sending-off: "Young boy, inexperience, but they got him sent off. They all rushed towards the referee. Typical Germans. You can't dispute that. The key issues were the goal before half-time and then the boy getting sent off, but it's still taken an exceptional goal to win the tie."

Spiritoftheseventies

Taking from Telegraph.

21.46: Alex Ferguson: "They never win that game without the red card. He's a young boy, a little inexperienced but they got him send off. Typical Germans. We played better tonight than they did on their own pitch. We were very unlucky to go out tonight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/7564659/Manchester-United-v-Bayern-Munich-live.html

Ush1

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Heh, Fergie makes mad comments and he's drawing flak. Benitez does it and he's losing it.

Exactly.
Oh he's deflecting, he's not actually just a sore loser!:pac:

Ush1

SDTimeout wrote: »

When robben scores 40+ goals in a season he's allowed to simulate :pac:

Not going out picking flaws either btw, robben is one of my favourite players in the game and still very young.

Yep, I thought Madrid were mad to sell him. One of the best wingers around, if a little injury prone.

herbieflowers

Hats off to Bayern for coming back from 3-0 to actually progress. Took some belief and desire to do that, especially away from home. Thought after the third that United might run riot. Crucial strike from Olic - in both legs, actually.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

everyone know's wat Ferguson is doing, however, there is still a line that ya shouldn't cross. ridiculous comments like his ones tonight are 'beyond the pale' as he himself would say.

Seriously, what comment was so bad tonight? Implying that German football teams are prone to cheat? Throughout modern football history German teams have been famous for cynicism and cheating, it's hardly a scandalous slur or offensive to the nation. All it is is untrue tonight - as their gamesmanship wasn't that bad or the critical issue like he made it out to be.

Mr Alan

you really think there was nothing too wrong wit his comment? i disagree.

MisterAnarchy

Pro. F wrote: »

if Fergie buys one or two quality central midfielders in the summer we will be straight back on top.

We have been saying that for the last 3 years but every central midfielder he has bought in the last 10 years has been a failure.

Minstrel27

OPENROAD wrote: »

Thought the German comment was poor, though you are right, he is drawing the flak from himself just as Wenger does though strangely that is never acknowledged instead people say he is a bad loser etc..

It is amazing how the opinion changes for some when it is Alex Ferguson doing it.

mayordenis

Pro. F wrote: »

Seriously, what comment was so bad tonight? Implying that German football teams are prone to cheat? Throughout modern football history German teams have been famous for cynicism and cheating, it's hardly a scandalous slur or offensive to the nation. All it is is untrue tonight - as their gamesmanship wasn't that bad or the critical issue like he made it out to be.

Come on, I've stayed out of this argument so far, but what he said is unacceptable, I don't care what walk of live it is, xenophobia and national stereotyping, especially by people who hold positions of huge power and responsibility is an absolute disgrace. End of story, I appreciate sticking up for your manager to a point, but by standing up for what he said you make your character look very poor.

Spiritoftheseventies

Fergie likes his rants.
Remember this one from King Kenny.
"You might as well talk to my baby daughter. You'll get more sense out of her"
- Kenny Dalglish to a reporter preparing to interview Alex Ferguson

Ush1

Minstrel27 wrote: »

It is amazing how the opinion changes for some when it is Alex Ferguson doing it.

It's because of the majority of football fans in Ireland are Man. United fans and often are far from objective.

Memnoch

Pro. F wrote: »

Seriously, what comment was so bad tonight? Implying that German football teams are prone to cheat? Throughout modern football history German teams have been famous for cynicism and cheating, it's hardly a scandalous slur or offensive to the nation. All it is is untrue tonight - as their gamesmanship wasn't that bad or the critical issue like he made it out to be.

Oh come off it please. Firstly that's a ridiculous generalisation and if you are going to even try and claim something like that you need to have some sort of solid evidence to back it up. Otherwise, that's just what it is, a flagrant display of prejudice (racism).

Besides, it's ridiculously rich of Fergie to be talking about players getting sent off, consider that the synchronised swimmer and diver of the century was one of his top players not two seasons ago (Ronaldo).

Personally, I'd like to see referees be much stricter with this kind of nonsense professional fouling. Which is exactly what Rafael did. Cynically pull a player back who was clean away.

SAF is just an uncouth, bullying hypocrite who occasionally exposes his true colours for all to see.

OPENROAD

Minstrel27 wrote: »

It is amazing how the opinion changes for some when it is Alex Ferguson doing it.

and opinions change from utd supporters when it is not Alex Ferguson saying it.

Pro. F

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

We have been saying that for the last 3 years but every central midfielder he has bought in the last 10 years has been a failure.

And yet during the last three years, we have been dominant in the EPL and Europe. Maybe I'm wrong then, maybe we don't need a quality central midfielder brought in

Ush1

Pro. F wrote: »

Seriously, what comment was so bad tonight? Implying that German football teams are prone to cheat? Throughout modern football history German teams have been famous for cynicism and cheating, it's hardly a scandalous slur or offensive to the nation. All it is is untrue tonight - as their gamesmanship wasn't that bad or the critical issue like he made it out to be.

So it's fine for him to proliferate a negative stereotype?
What would happen if United went through and Hoeness complained and said "typical English"?

citytillidie

Nemanja91 wrote: »

That was for the second, the first was just abysmal, he has absolutely no excuse for the first,

Did ya hear Sir Alex in the interview "typical germans" fcukin legend,

Did not know the Utd team were full of Germans as they do what he accused the Bayern team of doing all the time.

Gather around the ref

IvySlayer

This is EXACTLY how Ferguson wants it! All the attention off the players and every one is talking about his comments.

nullzero

SDTimeout wrote: »

Just curious as to how you could bear it when its your own player but seem to be so against the old simulation as it boils your blood.

Seems a bit odd

Woops, typo there.
I meant to say I couldn't bear it.
Ronaldo used to get up my nose with his trick acting.

Ush1

IvySlayer wrote: »

This is EXACTLY how Ferguson wants it! All the attention off the players and every one is talking about his comments.

Don't think that's working if that's Sir Alexs "masterplan". They both have come out looking bad tbh.

MisterAnarchy

Pro. F wrote: »

And yet during the last three years, we have been dominant in the EPL and Europe. Maybe I'm wrong then, maybe we don't need a quality central midfielder brought in

We also had a player called Ronaldo .

OPENROAD

IvySlayer wrote: »

This is EXACTLY how Ferguson wants it! All the attention off the players and every one is talking about his comments.

Is it ok for other managers to do the same?

IvySlayer

Ush1 wrote: »

Don't think that's working if that's Sir Alexs "masterplan". They both have come out looking bad tbh.

Fergie doesn't care. His job is to win titles not to be nice to everyone. He has his methods, and they've worked before. In one way I'm happy we can solely concencrate on the league now. If we beat Blackburn, we'd be 1 point ahead of Chelsea, who are playing in the cup.

IvySlayer

OPENROAD wrote: »

Is it ok for other managers to do the same?

Only if it works. Rafa last year - how it backfires.

Pro. F

mayordenis wrote: »

Come on, I've stayed out of this argument so far, but what he said is unacceptable, I don't care what walk of live it is, xenophobia and national stereotyping, especially by people who hold positions of huge power and responsibility is an absolute disgrace. End of story, I appreciate sticking up for your manager to a point, but by standing up for what he said you make your character look very poor.

It was a stereotyping of German football not the German people. I have no problem with saying that, for example, Spanish football teams dive, Italian football teams are over cautious, German football teams cheat, Irish football teams have a small time attitude etc etc. However that doesn't mean I condone xenophobia and stereotyping of a nation of people.

Boskowski

Pro. F wrote: »

Seriously, what comment was so bad tonight? Implying that German football teams are prone to cheat? Throughout modern football history German teams have been famous for cynicism and cheating, it's hardly a scandalous slur or offensive to the nation. All it is is untrue tonight - as their gamesmanship wasn't that bad or the critical issue like he made it out to be.

Excuse me but I actually take offense here. How the **** have german teams been known for cheating? WTF?

recylingbin

First Tevez, then Ribery...
Do any of you barstoolers know what real united fans have against players with facial disfiguration?

OPENROAD

IvySlayer wrote: »

Only if it works. Rafa last year - how it backfires.

And you wouldn't see it as moaning or being a bad loser if other managers did it?