Manchester United vs. FC Bayern München - Champions League Q/Final 2nd Leg

Headshot

fergie on the ball again

bloody cheating germans, always at it

Ush1

IvySlayer wrote: »

Fergie doesn't care. His job is to win titles not to be nice to everyone. He has his methods, and they've worked before. In one way I'm happy we can solely concencrate on the league now. If we beat Blackburn, we'd be 1 point ahead of Chelsea, who are playing in the cup.

If he doesn't care why say something inflamatory to begin with? So he's deflecting and if it doesn't work meh, he doesn't care?

I'm not convinced, I think he's spiteful and I do agree that he doesn't care. Likeable chap.

nullzero

Boskowski wrote: »

Excuse me but I actually take offense here. How the **** have german teams been known for cheating? WTF?

He was just trying to make a point perhaps in an imperfect manner. Get off your soap box. As for Germans cheating, the 54 World cup victory was credited by quite a few to be down to drug use, unsubstantiated as that may be, but it does lend creedance to his point.

Le King

Boskowski wrote: »

Excuse me but I actually take offense here. How the **** have german teams been known for cheating? WTF?

Coz they are.

[/Best Counter-Argument Ever]

Ush1

Pro. F wrote: »

It was a stereotyping of German football not the German people. I have no problem with saying that, for example, Spanish football teams dive, Italian football teams are over cautious, German football teams cheat, Irish football teams have a small time attitude etc etc. However that doesn't mean I condone xenophobia and stereotyping of a nation of people.

Problem with most of the things you listed is they aren't exactly true or they certainly cross over to other nations and peoples other than the ones mentioned.

To say "typical Germans" as a post match analysis, is fairly witless in this day and age.

Mr Alan

Pro. F wrote: »

It was a stereotyping of German football not the German people. I have no problem with saying that, for example, Spanish football teams dive, Italian football teams are over cautious, German football teams cheat, Irish football teams have a small time attitude etc etc. However that doesn't mean I condone xenophobia and stereotyping of a nation of people.

Do you have any stats to back any of your ridiculous statements? Particularly re: the spanish n germans

adox

Just going back to Rafaels second booking, without having seen it since, I'm pretty sure the ref, after he blew the whistle for the foul, reached for a card, realised he had ready booked him and changed his mind(bottled it), the Bayern players call for a second yellow and he then decides to book him again.

flahavaj

Ush1 wrote: »

Problem with most of the things you listed is they aren't exactly true or they certainly cross over to other nations and peoples other than the ones mentioned.

To say "typical Germans" as a post match analysis, is fairly witless in this day and age.

Standard of your posts has declined rapidly since the last one you made.

I think this is the end.:pac:

Ush1

nullzero wrote: »

He was just trying to make a point perhaps in an imperfect manner. Get off your soap box. As for Germans cheating, the 54 World cup victory was credited by quite a few to be down to drug use, unsubstantiated as that may be, but it does lend creedance to his point.

:pac:

GLaDOS

Stereotypically, Germans are efficient, maybe that's what he meant?

Ush1

flahavaj wrote: »

Standard of your posts has declined rapidly since the last one you made.

I think this is the end.:pac:

Hmm, don't make me ask you if you know what decline means.

nullzero

This is getting daft.
Won't somebody please think of the poor helpless Germans...


(Best I could do at short notice)

nullzero

Ush1 wrote: »

:pac:

flahavaj

Ush1 wrote: »

Hmm, don't make me ask you if you know what decline means.

Joke lad.:)

Ush1

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Stereotypically, Germans are efficient, maybe that's what he meant?

:pac:
Hell of a difference between calling someone efficient and a cheat!

nullzero

Still daft.
The poor Germans...

"So that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Herman Goering and four Colditz salads"

greendom

nullzero wrote: »

He was just trying to make a point perhaps in an imperfect manner. Get off your soap box. As for Germans cheating, the 54 World cup victory was credited by quite a few to be down to drug use, unsubstantiated as that may be, but it does lend creedance to his point.

Come on you can't go back over 50 years to prove a point.

IvySlayer

OPENROAD wrote: »

And you wouldn't see it as moaning or being a bad loser if other managers did it?

Depends what they say. Ferguson does hate losing, he said 'Typical Germans' just so that's the first thing in the paper and the first thing that everyones says when talking about this match.

nullzero

greendom wrote: »

Come on you can't go back over 50 years to prove a point.

Really?
Does it say that in rule book for proving points?

SlickRic

right.

well done Bayern first of all. as professional a performance as you'll see in that 2nd half.

but anyone claiming Utd are 'done for' or whatever, need their head examined. Utd were cruising, and should have been further ahead by the time half time came around.

Rafael then showed his immaturity, but also, it must be said, was harshly booked. i thought it was minimal contact, and the fact the Germans asked for the card should have put it out of question that he get booked. Rafael will learn though, and was sensational up until then.

Bayern kept in it somehow, as Germans tend to do, but with 10 men i still fancied Utd, i gotta say.

but Bayern were so impressive with a man up, and proceeded to dominate. Van Gaal's influence came to the fore, and i remembered his Ajax team as his team remained patient. Utd could not get the ball, the intensity disappeared, and i found myself expecting Bayern to score.

and what a hit by Robben.

the biggest compliment i can then pay Bayern is that Utd didn't then look like scoring again. bar one Nani break.

the big thing, apart from Bayern's composure in the 2nd half, was Carrick's sh*tness to be honest. at fault for both goals, lethargic in open play, he is a liability, and has been for a while.

well done Bayern. brilliantly composed and disciplined in that 2nd half. you did what you needed to do. as Germans invariably do.

Le King

SlickRic wrote: »

right.

well done Bayern first of all. as professional a performance as you'll see in that 2nd half.

but anyone claiming Utd are 'done for' or whatever, need their head examined. Utd were cruising, and should have been further ahead by the time half time came around.

Rafael then showed his immaturity, but also, it must be said, was harshly booked. i thought it was minimal contact, and the fact the Germans asked for the card should have put it out of question that he get booked. Rafael will learn though, and was sensational up until then.

Bayern kept in it somehow, as Germans tend to do, but with 10 men i still fancied Utd, i gotta say.

but Bayern were so impressive with a man up, and proceeded to dominate. Van Gaal's influence came to the fore, and i remembered his Ajax team as his team remained patient. Utd could not get the ball, the intensity disappeared, and i found myself expecting Bayern to score.

and what a hit by Robben.

the biggest compliment i can then pay Bayern is that Utd didn't then look like scoring again. bar one Nani break.

the big thing, apart from Bayern's composure in the 2nd half, was Carrick's sh*tness to be honest. at fault for both goals, lethargic in open play, he is a liability, and has been for a while.

well done Bayern. brilliantly composed and disciplined in that 2nd half. you did what you needed to do. as Germans invariably do.

+1


Good analysis.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

Do you have any stats to back any of your ridiculous statements? Particularly re: the spanish n germans

Jesus Al of course not! They're just dumb stereotypes, and like all stereotypes they are un-provable and usually wrong. My point was not that these things are true but rather that they are hardly a slur against the actual people of the country.

flahavaj

SlickRic wrote: »

right.

well done Bayern first of all. as professional a performance as you'll see in that 2nd half.

but anyone claiming Utd are 'done for' or whatever, need their head examined. Utd were cruising, and should have been further ahead by the time half time came around.

Rafael then showed his immaturity, but also, it must be said, was harshly booked. i thought it was minimal contact, and the fact the Germans asked for the card should have put it out of question that he get booked. Rafael will learn though, and was sensational up until then.

Bayern kept in it somehow, as Germans tend to do, but with 10 men i still fancied Utd, i gotta say.

but Bayern were so impressive with a man up, and proceeded to dominate. Van Gaal's influence came to the fore, and i remembered his Ajax team as his team remained patient. Utd could not get the ball, the intensity disappeared, and i found myself expecting Bayern to score.

and what a hit by Robben.

the biggest compliment i can then pay Bayern is that Utd didn't then look like scoring again. bar one Nani break.

the big thing, apart from Bayern's composure in the 2nd half, was Carrick's sh*tness to be honest. at fault for both goals, lethargic in open play, he is a liability, and has been for a while.

well done Bayern. brilliantly composed and disciplined in that 2nd half. you did what you needed to do. as Germans invariably do.

I'm always glad when SlickRic shares my point of view as it re-inforces the feeling that I'm correct. Sometimes natural bias can cloud your view etc.

But making broad generalisatiosn about the Germans is wrong Slick, for shame. :pac:

IvySlayer

Robbens strike was good. Nani had a decent chance, but so did Carrick from the following corner.

Paul Tergat

SlickRic wrote: »

Bayern kept in it somehow, as Germans tend to do, but with 10 men i still fancied Utd, i gotta say.

IMG *tedanddougalcarefulnowpic /IMG


as per your post is good!

greendom

nullzero wrote: »

Really?
Does it say that in rule book for proving points?

Yes in my one certainly, especially if they're going to have any validity

Mr Alan

Pro. F wrote: »

Jesus Al of course not! They're just dumb stereotypes, and like all stereotypes they are un-provable and usually wrong. My point was not that these things are true but rather that they are hardly a slur against the actual people of the country.

However, it is a slur against the football clubs of that country, and as the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world, he should be above such dumb stereotypes which were undoubtedly insulting and untrue.

Jazzy

oof, ive always thought that going out on away goals is a bit bull****ty. cant they just do extra time and then after that the team with more away goals wins if its a draw? i know they are there to avoid the randomness that is a peno shootout but maybe an extra half an hour might be more fair then the current system.
utd werent good once bayern settled in. carrick is no where near the same quality as an engine room then the likes of lampard, xavi, alonso etc. does he have a cloaking device or something? completely invisible today. i think against any midfield that has a bit of hustle and bustle hes next to useless.
berbatov just cant play up top on his own. im not sure how he fits in yet to utd but i think they need to find a way as there is a depth of talent in him. dunno why he doesnt start in home games. thats 30 million utd need right there.

Pro. F

Mr Alan wrote: »

However, it is a slur against the football clubs of that country, and as the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world, he should be above such dumb stereotypes which were undoubtedly insulting and untrue.

OK grand whatever, we could argue about that but it's late. As long as I'm not being accused of condoning xenophobia i'm going to leave it now.

adox

Pro. F wrote: »

OK grand whatever, we could argue about that but it's late. As long as I'm not being accused of condoning xenophobia i'm going to leave it now.

Is this xenphobe gone yet?

Boskowski

nullzero wrote: »

He was just trying to make a point perhaps in an imperfect manner. Get off your soap box. As for Germans cheating, the 54 World cup victory was credited by quite a few to be down to drug use, unsubstantiated as that may be, but it does lend creedance to his point.

Lol and I thought it was alien powers

Mars Bar

Not fun to watch that second half.

Poor Rafael. Silly for getting that first yellow but the second one was harsh. And he looked so dejected walking off. I just wanted to hug him.

Robben's strike was pure perfection, but he shouldn't have been given the time to strike it.

It was the first match where I thought that Nani should have been given every ball. Never have I felt that Nani was gonna get us through a game. Was really worried for him when he looked like he was going to pass out before taking the corner.

UnitedIrishman

Right, where to start with this cluster**** of a game.

Started unbelieveably well and I thought it was going to Roma Part 2. Valencia and Nani were flying, Rafa had Ribery in his pocket and everything was going smoothly. Our midfield was even on top - Gibson was spraying the ball pretty well and Fletch was his usual destructive self. Our backline looked reasonably solid aswell with only Olic getting in on goal for VDS to save at his feet.

Then two things happened. One, Rafa got a yellow card for a foul that should have been United's free 2 seconds beforehand. And two, Michael Carrick got pushed off a ball like a pussy (why he tracked him I don't know.. stay put and he's offside Michael). If that happened at Junior League level, the manager would **** him from a height. Go win the ball, put it out for a corner, put it out to the side - ****ing anything but what you did.

That was the major turning point for me. We go in 3-0, I think we come out and settle the game. 3-1 means we are on the edge ála Barca in 08' - except we actually defended that lead.

Rafa getting himself sent off didn't help either. I hope that c*nt Schweinsteiger gets his in the next game by the way, card waving no mark c*nt. Whoever said he was an unreal talented player in this thread must be watching a different player because in the 7-8 times I've watched him, I've thought he was nothing above average

Then Carrick decides to play silly buggers in midfield, lose the ball and then we concede a corner that leads to Robben's goal - shortly after trying to lob VDS with a backpass. Oh and he also turned his back when Robben was volleying it home instead of standing up like a man and taking the hit from the ball. It's a ball of air Michael, and it's also the CL Quarter Final. He'd want to have a good hard look at himself over the summer because his performances this season have been nothing short of ****.

The most annoying thing about tonight - and it's exactly how I felt when Porto knocked us out a couple of years ago, and when Monaco knocked us out in 98 - is that we were far better than them. That's not me being arrogant. We are a better side than Bayern, but we just didn't do it. They'll beat Lyon I'd imagine and play Barca in the final where they'll get spanked - not saying that out of badness, we wouldn't be able to live with them either.

Positives from tonight -

* Nani's performance: I'll be the first to admit; I slated this man week in week out last season and the start of this season for not being good enough. I was pulling my hair out in anger at every failed pass/cross/back heel. He's proved, not just tonight but for the last number of months, that he's a quality player. He's got his head down and works for the team so hard now. Fair play to him.

* JOS back - badly needed for the last leg of the Premiership.

Pro. F

mars bar wrote: »

Was really worried for him when he looked like he was going to pass out before taking the corner.

I was laughing my ass off
Have to give it to the players, they gave it absolutely everything tonight - in that way they did themselves proud.

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

I was laughing my ass off
Have to give it to the players, they gave it absolutely everything tonight - in that way they did themselves proud.

Agreed, definitely one thing that could be said of them. They looked ****ed chasing the ball near the end. But fair play to them for the effort they put in.

Mars Bar

Pro. F wrote: »

I was laughing my ass off
Have to give it to the players, they gave it absolutely everything tonight - in that way they did themselves proud.

:eek: That's not very nice.

Pro. F

mars bar wrote: »

:eek: That's not very nice.

professional footballer makes a lung bursting run for the ball; it goes out of play and he practically sits down for a breather and then starts hamming it up like he's going to faint; then to top it all off he puts in a nice corner and carries on with the rest of the game! Come on, really, you didn't chuckle even a little bit?

Mars Bar

Pro. F wrote: »

professional footballer makes a lung bursting run for the ball; it goes out of play and he practically sits down for a breather and then starts hamming it up like he's going to faint; then to top it all off he puts in a nice corner and carries on with the rest of the game! Come on, really, you didn't chuckle even a little bit?

Being brutally honest, first thought that went through my head was Marc Viviene Foe dropping to the floor. Then again, I'm a wussy girl and things like that scare me! :pac:

Kinda seeing the funny side of my own paranoia now though!

Mr Alan

he bent down quickly to place the ball and take the corner, he got a rush of blood to the head after his gut busting sprint. that's all.

Drumpot

mars bar wrote: »

Being brutally honest, first thought that went through my head was Marc Viviene Foe dropping to the floor. Then again, I'm a wussy girl and things like that scare me! :pac:

Kinda seeing the funny side of my own paranoia now though!

Me too . . I was really worried cause its not something you see often halfway through a top flight game !

Pro. F

mars bar wrote: »

Being brutally honest, first thought that went through my head was Marc Viviene Foe dropping to the floor. Then again, I'm a wussy girl and things like that scare me! :pac:

Kinda seeing the funny side of my own paranoia now though!

to be fair, now that you say it it does seem like a reasonable concern. I remember a young lad in my school died that same way as well actually, so maybe i should stay more aware that sometimes it can really be dangerous. It's just that it's so common for people to feel light headed when they've just stopped running, it didn't cross my mind that it might be the one in a million time when it's dangerous, more that he was time wasting / being self indulgent.

Anyway, laughing or not aside, fair play to Nani for stepping it up lately.

Chardee MacDennis

united started brilliantly but took the foot off the pedal, once rafael got sent off it was all over.

btw lol at the united fans who are calling bayern cheats for looking for the second card, its handy united players dont have to do it much coz they have this on the sideline...

Chardee MacDennis

mars bar wrote: »

Being brutally honest, first thought that went through my head was Marc Viviene Foe dropping to the floor. Then again, I'm a wussy girl and things like that scare me! :pac:

Kinda seeing the funny side of my own paranoia now though!

yup i thought the same, kept thinking why arent physios rushing over?!!?

jank

Fergie rewriting history yet again

Spiritoftheseventies

Mr Alan wrote: »

he bent down quickly to place the ball and take the corner, he got a rush of blood to the head after his gut busting sprint. that's all.

yeah was wondering about that.

FUNKY LOVER

Handsome Bob

*Awaits Keano's pre-match press conference tomorrow where he calls Fergie a hypocrite* :pac:

KittyeeTrix

BastardPrince wrote: »

SAF to ref: Aw come on, you can do it, it goes:

You put your right leg in, your right leg out
In out, in out, you shake it all about
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
That's what it's all about

PHB

I feel absolutely disgusted. It's exactly like Porto. How the **** we lost that tie is beyond me.

Carrick needs to be ****ed off. I'm fed up with his consistant **** performances and stupid ****ing decisions. Thanks for 2 goods years but seriously, **** off now please.

Whoever the **** was meant to be on the front post, I think it was Gibson, should be taken out and ****ing shot. Guy on the front post, ball gets cleared. Un-****ing believable.

Rafael was stupid, no doubt about it, and theyw ere both yellows. He's young and he'll learn. The ref needs to be given a smack for not giving him a free the first time around, stupid ****ing decision. He also should be given a smack for the ****ing deliberate attacks of Rooney's ankle by Van Buyten being allowed. But we didn't lose because of the ref, we lost this tie because of a series of individual errors. Evra, Carrick, Rafael, Front Post dude. Un-****ing acceptable.

Fergie's subs after the red were also ****ing ludicrous. He just allowed Bayern to have complete pressure constantly with nobody up front to hold up the ball. Absurdly defensive decision, but not at all surprising if you follow Fergie in Europe.

United lost, and imo deserved to lose. But Bayern are imo a distinctly average team. Their defence is absolutely awful and their midfield isn't much better. Robben and Ribery make them seem much better than they are. The winner of Inter-Barca are frankly going to hammer them in the final, should they get there. That's what makes this defeat so ****ing bitter. We lost to a significantly inferior team because of a series of individual errors. You lose to Barca or Inter because they best you I can live with. I can't ****ing live with absolute **** that happened over these two ties.

Spiritoftheseventies

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Alan Wiley: No. *I* am your father.
Fergie: No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!
Alan Wiley: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!

fyp