Documentary C&C please *NSFAR*

sineadw

Animal Rights that is.. or those of you with a weak disposition.

So I'm still working on the vet images as part of the documentary series I'm doing. I was out with Darren last week at a dehorning, which was bloody and barbaric. Hiding behind the camera and being forewarned made it a lot easier, but I was still a bit shaken by the experience. I'm not at all even in the least bit happy with what I came away with. I was freaked. The cow was freaked. And loud and kicking and I couldn't get close to it for (real) fear of having my leg broken by a kick. Plus the yard was messy and the crush had bars that made it difficult to get anything decent. I'm wondering if they work on any level though? I'm having a hard time separating the shots from the experience.

And I'm not particularly looking for technical C&C - I know the wider shot has the focus on the wall for example. I'm not that worried about that (unless you think it kills the image completely) and I haven't done any PP on them as yet - wanting to know if it's even worth trying. I'm more looking for first impressions. I feel they are shots that just got away..

ihastakephoto

IMHO I think it depends what level of PP you are thinking of Sinead, again IMO its a pity you didn't get any more foreground on the 'after' shot showing the horn sitting on the ground.

nonsequitir

It's grim indeed, but if it's a photo journalism style of project then it would be disingenuous to omit these parts By all accounts it looks grim and I've no doubt I'd feel sick, but...

• What's the project's real intent?
• Googling for 'bull dehorning' seems to infer it's a common if not a recommended farming process.
• Will you have similar personal challenges for the putting down of animals?
• Looking at pictures without knowing ANYTHING about the process of de-horning (in this case) could put it in a completely unjust light. I'm not advocating it, I just know nothing about it. I'd have to wonder why the animal isn't just anesthetized, may that's not possible?

It's fascinating, I guess you hadn't factored this kind of thing when you started? I wouldn't have...

sineadw

No I hadn't Nonsequitir. I had honestly imagined sick puppies and James Herriot.

The project is being presented as a mock publication. A magazine article I suppose, about the everyday life of a vet. So there'll be an interview and explanation of dehorning included. I tried not to make judgement calls in the photos - there were worse. Its bloody and painful though. And Darren gave both a sedative and a local anaesthetic - its too dangerous to give a general.

@ihastakephoto - that's the widest one I have of that one. I might look through what else I have. Like I said I was hiding behind the camera so I took a lot.

Buzz Lightyear

While the photos portray what seems to be a fairly barbaric act, I'm sure a/the vet had their reasons for doing this. I think the photos on their own don't do justice to the operation involved.

As part of documentary photography, I think a narrative should accompany the images, so as to tell the story behind the act.

On its own the first image tells a bit about the pain endured by the vet/assistant who has being caught by the bull horn. This could lead you to interpret the reasoning for the de-horning, which is represented in the second image.

I'd be curious to see a couple of other images, to fill in the blanks yet allowing the photos to speak for themselves.

Effects

Maybe try getting closer with a boom and remote shutter release?

sineadw

Effects wrote: »

Maybe try getting closer with a boom and remote shutter release?

It's not an experience I'm looking to repeat. And I think a set up like that would restrict too much.

sineadw

Buzz Lightyear wrote: »

.

On its own the first image tells a bit about the pain endured by the vet/assistant who has being caught by the bull horn..

Actually, that's the farmer. Who left them so long before dehorning them that it becomes the act you see and not a fairly painless one when they're younger. Which I guess *is* me making a judgement call..

I've been thinking I'd lay these out as a series of their own maybe? Within the greater one. I don't think any one shot is good enough. I have some much wider ones I'll post up later if I get the chance...

Thanks all

smelltheglove

God Sinead I feel for you having to stand by watching that, never mind the poor bull, looks painfull.

I think a boost of clarity would do this very well and maybe even black and white. I think the clarity might make it more real looking, make the whole procedure, struggle stand out a bit.

nilhg

As somebody who's been hanging out of the end of the rope many times (not anymore thankfully, we do them as babies now) I think you've caught it pretty well, and I'd imagine you've a few more slightly more gory ones as well.

It's organised chaos really, and the problem is to capture that, I think you've done OK. I've just noticed the vet is using a wire to do the dehorning, our fella always used a saw, probably more dramatic, if that's the right word.


Make sure you don't miss the castrating, time of the year for that too.......

sNarah

Right so, Since I commented on FB, I might just as well copy my thought into here as well.

I'm not sure about the dehorning thing, chose not to get involved on boards* because i don't really have any critism that would be helpfull for you.

I do think they belong in the bigger picture you are doing on Darren/vets as it would be a 'normal' procedure a vet would encouter during his professional life so I don't see why there should be any objections for these 2 pics.

That said, I do think - in all honesty - that they are not your "best" 2 shots, nor are they of the same standard some of your other shots for this particular project. They can be improved, perhaps different angels or a bigger picture, or a closer look. I don't really know.

You were saying you had some other shots as well? I'd like to see what you have done with the other ones.

There, my 2 cents

* Yeah well, I did in the end!

Covey

smelltheglove wrote: »

I think the clarity might make it more real looking.

I was thinking of something insightful, well researched and meaningful to say, but I'm afraid I can't beat that.

nonsequitir

sNarah wrote: »

That said, I do think - in all honesty - that they are not your "best" 2 shots, nor are they of the same standard some of your other shots for this particular project. They can be improved, perhaps different angels or a bigger picture, or a closer look. I don't really know.

Robert Capa was quoted as saying that "If you're picture's not good enough, you weren't close enough" /me runs away from boards at speed.

smelltheglove

Covey wrote: »

I was thinking of something insightful, well researched and meaningful to say, but I'm afraid I can't beat that.

Lol, you should be used to my limited vocabulary by now. I just think in the right images clarification makes the picture pop, like its right infront of you rather than an image.

sineadw

nonsequitir wrote: »

Robert Capa was quoted as saying that "If you're picture's not good enough, you weren't close enough" /me runs away from boards at speed.

...and then he stood on a landmine Seriously though, the second one was the closest I could get. Which with a FF camera was plenty close. They're bloody scary!

sineadw

sNarah wrote: »

That said, I do think - in all honesty - that they are not your "best" 2 shots,

* Yeah well, I did in the end!

Sigh.. thanks Sarah - that's how I feel too, but it was so.. spectacular is not the right word.. to be there that I wasn't sure if it was just that.

Bigger set and more of them it is so.

nonsequitir

sineadw wrote: »

...and then he stood on a landmine Seriously though, the second one was the closest I could get. Which with a FF camera was plenty close. They're bloody scary!

Aye, those Full Frame cameras scare the bejaysus out of me :-) LOL:D

I'd say if you can stomach going through that again, then some more shots?

Cows faces are normally very photogenic and I'd say close up shots of the bulls head throughout the process through the crush could be very moving
At the moment, I'm not really getting this. It isn't clear that your man is being gored and tbh anything could be going on in the second one.

But to be fair to you, cows are big, loud and scary. Bulls especially so. I grew up with farm animals and they are the one animal that I'm never comfortable with. Takes guts to be shoving a camera in a bulls face!

Covey

Firstly I like the shots and I think you were very brave both getting the shots and in picking a different type of project.

Documentary is not as easy as it seems. Turn up, point the camera in the general direction and expose it right!. I'm not saying you've done that, as you've gone further than that and made interesting thought provoking shots, which are necessary as documentary doesn't by it's nature have that instant impact that other genres might have. The element slightly missing maybe is context, the wider perspective which is often the making of documentary shots.

I also feel that landscape oriented shots, quite often work best for this type of shot. Maybe you have some and you could compare?

I don't think Capa meant getting in closer by means of a lens, but rather physically.

I personally would have preferred a shot such as your shot "Home" (sorry can't link? ) which I thought was a far better shot than a portrait orientated shot of Darren reading the paper would have been and benefited from the context that the background provided.

Just me though, others will have very different views I'm sure.

I'm loving the series and approach though and very impressed with all the work.

sineadw

Thanks Tommie - your opinion in particular means a lot to me. And damn right documentary photography is HARD! I had no idea how hard.

Here's a wider one, chosen at random with no PP. You can see my problem with it though - the yard was a huge big mess of clutter. Which made Getting in close very difficult - I had to climb over stuff to get what I got, and there were only a few places in tight where I wasn't within kick range. Getting on the other side though I just got everyone's backs. Plus there was another bull who'd just been done behind us, making me very nervous. I think I was looking backwards more than forwards, and the guys must have though it was hilarious how truly terrified I was

I'll look through them properly when I get home from sveeeeeden.

Covey

Sinead, I much prefer that shot tbh. It has oodles of context and the foreground, which might be a minus point for other types of shot, somehow benefits in adding to the context for me. The bottle of medicine and the clutter are part of the thing (and may also be an indicator as to why the cattle weren't done as normal as calfs !).

It's a different perspective that maybe adds more to the general story than a close up does ( though I suppose a mix is the best overall ). If I had the choice to pick only one it would be that one though

EDIT: I forget to say the " Three Stooges " add a slightly comical element as well

sineadw

Ah this editing down is hard! Thanks again Tommie - I've had to re-learn how to see with this series and I'm still very much in newbieland.

smelltheglove

I agree with Covey here, that shot is much better, you can crop into it slightly and it would still be better than the first. The landscape orientation works much better.

sNarah

sineadw wrote: »

Sigh.. thanks Sarah - that's how I feel too, but it was so.. spectacular is not the right word.. to be there that I wasn't sure if it was just that.

Bigger set and more of them it is so.

I would certainly NOT omit this set out of the entire project. As a stand alone series however, I have slighty more doubt. That 3rd picture is a perfect addition to the 2 first ones, as it feels like there's something "missing" in between the 2 situations.

Covey wrote: »

Firstly I like the shots and I think you were very brave both getting the shots and in picking a different type of project.

Documentary is not as easy as it seems. Turn up, point the camera in the general direction and expose it right!. I'm not saying you've done that, as you've gone further than that and made interesting thought provoking shots, which are necessary as documentary doesn't by it's nature have that instant impact that other genres might have. The element slightly missing maybe is context, the wider perspective which is often the making of documentary shots.

I personally would have preferred a shot such as your shot "Home" (sorry can't link? ) which I thought was a far better shot than a portrait orientated shot of Darren reading the paper would have been and benefited from the context that the background provided.

Just me though, others will have very different views I'm sure.

I'm loving the series and approach though and very impressed with all the work.

+1 on that. Loving the series and really liked that "home" shot also. But, I do feel that the dehorning should be part of the series as they are a big contrast from the safe surrounds of Darrens home.

Covey wrote: »

Sinead, I much prefer that shot tbh. It has oodles of context and the foreground, which might be a minus point for other types of shot, somehow benefits in adding to the context for me. The bottle of medicine and the clutter are part of the thing (and may also be an indicator as to why the cattle weren't done as normal as calfs !).

It's a different perspective that maybe adds more to the general story than a close up does ( though I suppose a mix is the best overall ). If I had the choice to pick only one it would be that one though

EDIT: I forget to say the " Three Stooges " add a slightly comical element as well

They are funny allright! I think a combination would work perfectly, perhaps 3 or 4 pictures re. dehorning to shown the full extend of how hard and scary it is.

Nontheless, I realised your main questions was "should I pp them or just forget about them alltogether?" - or something of that matter. And my answer is: pretty pretty please DO pp them and use them for the project, or find a way to make a few of them work as a unity.

Enjoy Sweden!

AnCatDubh

Sinead,

I've thought some about your thread this afternoon and here are my genuine thoughts - usual disclaimer applies; this is only a personal opinion and is provided only as that for what that may be worth;

THESE images in the opening post, imho, are THE most significant contribution made here on the boards photography forum certainly for the duration of my time knocking around here. This, on many different levels. (at least as my failing memory provides me with)

You obviously had excellent access here but that doesn't in any way detract from your efforts. If the forum didn't know Darren then no one would be none the wiser.

My criticism is only that you haven't shown enough of the experience here and although part of me doesn't particularly want to see the fuller composition, it is both a compelling and evocative viewing. I'm sure you have more to go through and I think as part of a set, a photographic essay, showing the context before, the fear, the brutality, the exasperations, the climax, the heat of the moment, the wind down, the caring nature of the individuals, the compassion for the animal, and so forth; will be a most excellent assignment.

They aren't pretty pictures. It doesn't make for pleasant viewing. The aesthetics aren't appealing from a visual sense. You can almost smell the scene and THAT is powerful. But, in documentary, imho, the images presented doesn't suffer as a lack of aesthetics. They are brutal and to the point. There is a realism to them.

Again, imho, processing of these images will take from rather than add to them. You won't produce pretty pictures out of this no matter how hard you may try so I suggest to go with a raw finish. They are as is. If compelled to process (or if required by the assignment), I'd go with more grit and more edge to them, exaggerate rather than reduce the impact, high contrasts and depth of the darks - but again, I don't actually think they need it and indeed on a full series it might just be too much.

Well done you.

Kinda puts muddy fields in a new light in some ways

AnimalRights

From your oiwn Wiki link.
". Dehorning is considered by some animal rights activists to be an unnecessary cruelty."

Look at the fear on the poor Cow in the 2nd picture..
Humans are just pure savages, everything is just based around profit b4 welfare, that Vet is just as bad as the Farmer.
When there was mad Cow disease in the UK a few years ago and they had to cull millions of Animals I was delighted, they were going to be butchered anyway and once the Farmers had to suffer I got so much pleasure from that thought.

"The procedure is most commonly performed early in an animal's life"
That Cow seemed very old to be dehorned?

"An ABC News report found that most cattle in the U.S. are dehorned without the use of anesthesia."
This Cow doesn't look like he had anesthesia?

There are many walks of life that documentaries can be done on so surprised you'd choose this path.

DaireQuinlan

AnimalRights wrote: »

From your oiwn Wiki link.
". Dehorning is considered by some animal rights activists to be an unnecessary cruelty."

Look at the fear on the poor Cow in the 2nd picture..
Humans are just pure savages, everything is just based around profit b4 welfare, that Vet is just as bad as the Farmer.

There IS a NSFAR tag in the title of the thread for a reason ...

AnimalRights

Yes I can read Daire, not suitable means that obviously I won't vote it thread of the year!
So if you had your way there wouldn't be an opinion from the anti side?

Just because it's photography it doesn't mean you have a license to have carte blanche!
I mean if I got a tip off that I could photograph someone being hacked to death does that make it ok 'cos it was done in the name of Photography?

dakar

I've finally gotten a chance to sit down and have a good look and think about these. My viewpoint is obviously going to be more complex than the other responses here since I'm subject, collaborator, photographer, vet, boardsie etc. That's a lot of hats to wear

First off, I hate this job. It's brutal, distressing for the animal and unnecessary as it should be taken care of with a relatively painless procedure when the calf is a few days old. As I said to Sinéad in the interview for the editorial that accompanies the photographic body of work, the only reason I tolerate it at all is that I'm in a position to minimise the stress and pain to the animal, still hate it though.

That said, I do like these shots very much. They stand as a complete contrast to the controlled clinical environment of the hospital based shots. There's a rawness about them which captures another side to my working life which is every bit as real and valid as the other stuff (as for that matter is the 'Home' shot).

As a standalone, I like the third one, I think it works well as an environmental portrait and the clutter adds to rather than detracts from the effectiveness of the shot.

I like the decisive moment element of the first, and as a part of the story, it works well. The fact that the sharpness of the other shots is lacking does grate a little though.

I can't decide about the close up shot. It kind of falls between two stools. I know you were conscious of not including too much gore, but it's hard to tell what's going on. I think it fits in as a part of a wider story but there are too many unanswered questions. What am I doing? Is the animal alive or dead? Am I fixing something or administering last rites? Where's the rest of the blood!?

Sinéad knows this already, but having her documenting my day to day life has been an absolute pleasure and I'm learning more from being part of this process than I ever thought possible

humberklog

AnimalRights wrote: »

Yes I can read Daire, not suitable means that obviously I won't vote it thread of the year!
So if you had your way there wouldn't be an opinion from the anti side?

Just because it's photography it doesn't mean you have a license to have carte blanche!
I mean if I got a tip off that I could photograph someone being hacked to death does that make it ok 'cos it was done in the name of Photography?

I have a feeling that the cow wasn't de-horned (I always thought that was called Polling) in the name of photography.


Good work Sinead, tough ol' assignment. Very interested to see the finished article.

On a by the by...could you have kept one of the horns?

dakar

AR you have your point of view which can never be reconciled with any system which produces animals for human consumption, with whatever greed, barbarism, capitalism you associate with it.

Neither do I expect to be able to explain to you how, as a vet I can participate in the production of food from animals.

All I can tell you is that everything that I could do to minimise the pain and distress to those animals was done. I hate this aspect of my job. I wish I didn't have to do it. Calves should be treated early to ensure they don't grow horns in the first place. Farmers are incentivised to make sure that this is done, but some slip through the net and regulations don't allow cattle into markets with horns.

I'm sorry if these photos upset you or anyone else. I respect the force of your convictions and appreciate the fact that you are more honest than people who say 'Aw the poor cows' and still eat meat.

smelltheglove

Sinead would you use the 3 of them in a story board so you would have the first and then the third then the second, all of equal height, the 3rd which seems to be the most appreciated here would then be the largest of all and you would not lose the significance of the second, as, since it is part of a story board the user knows what is going on.

AnimalRights

dakar wrote: »

AR you have your point of view which can never be reconciled with any system which produces animals for human consumption, with whatever greed, barbarism, capitalism you associate with it.

Neither do I expect to be able to explain to you how, as a vet I can participate in the production of food from animals.

All I can tell you is that everything that I could do to minimise the pain and distress to those animals was done. I hate this aspect of my job. I wish I didn't have to do it. Calves should be treated early to ensure they don't grow horns in the first place. Farmers are incentivised to make sure that this is done, but some slip through the net and regulations don't allow cattle into markets with horns.

I'm sorry if these photos upset you or anyone else. I respect the force of your convictions and appreciate the fact that you are more honest than people who say 'Aw the poor cows' and still eat meat.

aahh you were the Vet!
Ok I feel a bit better now having met ya I know ur a good person, I mean you did buy a flagon for me!

Humber I didn't mean to say the Cow was dehorned for Sinead's project!!

and finally....Dakar get's it in 1
"I respect the force of your convictions and appreciate the fact that you are more honest than people who say 'Aw the poor cows' and still eat meat."

AnimalRights

*Punchline*
My GF has just walked past the computer as I had this thread open and said "aaahh that's disgusting' she's just had her dinner which included a Steak!

dakar

AnimalRights wrote: »

I mean you did buy a flagon for me!

And the going rate for AR's principles is...............

humberklog

So Darren what happens to the horns? Do they have to be bagged and incinerated or could you collect up loads of'm?


Oh and...poor ol' moocow....mnom,mnom,mnom,mnom.

nonsequitir

AnimalRights wrote: »

Yes I can read Daire, not suitable means that obviously I won't vote it thread of the year!
So if you had your way there wouldn't be an opinion from the anti side?

Just because it's photography it doesn't mean you have a license to have carte blanche!
I mean if I got a tip off that I could photograph someone being hacked to death does that make it ok 'cos it was done in the name of Photography?

As distasteful as we all clearly find this act (at least that's what I infer from reading the entire thread through), the impact of the photography exercise on me is not one of glamour, not it in the least. For me, it merely points out as documentary evidence, and honestly captured evidence I might add, of events that occur in daily rural life in Ireland today.

Putting it another way, without photography like this (of this genre) the "rest of us" wouldn't even know that this still happened (I certainly didn't) and I for one am thankful for it and repulsed by it too. But I am certainly educated by it. For that alone, and for me certainly, it stands up for itself.

An attempt to repress the "presenter of the evidence" doesn't remove the act, it merely enhances the ignorance.

Anyway, my annoyance of "love the cow" forced me to write this. And I shall probably have steak before the week is out. ****, I ate a baby sheep in my stew on Sunday, I'm a veritable killer. Oh, hang on, I'm an omnivore. Gah!

AnimalRights

I have a mate that works in an abbortoir and 'cept he can't get me in there I'd love to photograph that...It'd def put off some people eating meat ever again so your points are taken but it's def a thin line about covering this stuff.

smelltheglove

AnimalRights wrote: »

I have a mate that works in an abbortoir and 'cept he can't get me in there I'd love to photograph that...It'd def put off some people eating meat ever again so your points are taken but it's def a thin line about covering this stuff.

Is that where they do the killing? My ex went into one a few months back, being a head chef the suppliers invited him along to view their whole business, start to finish. He said it was a horrible experience and despite the ongoign conversation he couldnt get over the sound of the final act.

AnCatDubh

gentle reminder folks - sinead's post was for particular photographic purpose, please revert to this topic. can be read at post #1 thanks.

Slidinginfinity

I am not nearly as eloquent ACD or others.

As a born and bred "City Boy", at first I had no idea what was going on the the shots (call me slow if have to). Then I read the post (like I should have in the first place), and that was when I noticed the hon on the ground in the second shot.

The first image doesn't have any where near the impact of the third. The second or third shots. The second has been said could have done with a bit more width, but still has a subtle punch. The third has so much more context really transmits the feeling of the event so much more.

All that being said, take some cojones to even get in there. Good work.

DaireQuinlan

AnimalRights wrote: »

Yes I can read Daire, not suitable means that obviously I won't vote it thread of the year!
So if you had your way there wouldn't be an opinion from the anti side?

Just because it's photography it doesn't mean you have a license to have carte blanche!
I mean if I got a tip off that I could photograph someone being hacked to death does that make it ok 'cos it was done in the name of Photography?

Nice bit of hyperbole there. This isn't about not having an opinion from the 'anti side' unless by 'anti' you mean 'anti - documentary photography'. Thats what sinead is engaged in here. She's not cutting the horns off cows, and cows aren't having their horns cut off so that sinead can get a few good shots. She is documenting something that is happening regardless. And it's that documentary process that we should be commenting on here. Will this series of pictures promote discussion ? Or make people think twice before buying a steak ? Perhaps, perhaps not, but here on the photographic forum is not, I think , the place to have that discussion.
I'm not in any way dismissing your ethical standpoint on the matter, or trivialising it, but I do think it's orthogonal to this discussion.

-edit- oops, just read your post,ACD, was typing this on my phone, it took a bit ...

Misa-san

The vegetarian photography student (covering all my basis) says: The last one, the Three Stouges is a funny little bit of context for the picture, and the rope seems to draw the eye across the picture quite well. Overall I'd say look at what you have settled on for the rest of the project, you want it to flow together; I've been in the editing room with you - you can make good decisions

artyeva

sorry sinead, these just don't do it for me at all.

not because i'm in any ''the poor cows'' camp - but because as a farmer's daughter i've been present at these sorts of things and these photos just don't convey the urgency, the tension, the electricity if you like of having a massively muscular animal in close proximity.

maybe that's down to your fear - as you said - you were petrified. but unfortunatley that comes accross in the shots. there's no interest for me in the 3 you've posted here with an exception of maybe at a stretch the third one, but that's mainly [as someone has already pointed out] due to the foreground.

i think anyway - that your confidence would have benefited in spending more time with large animals before tackling something as ''gruesome'' - because for me anyway the gore that i'm presuming you're trying to convey in these is overshadowed by the fact that they're a bit well...''meh''.

sorry

it's such an interesting project though - to follow a vet - especially one who's open to being followed - i do look forward to more. has he done the hand up the bum of a cow yet? :eek:

when i was a kid the vet my dad used always made the same lame joke about loosing his watch when he did that. the first time he had us following a cow round for a day looking out for it in her poo-poos :rolleyes:

Fionn

as a country fella somewhat! I'd have to agree to some extant with artyeva - i've seen all of this before as a youngster, where this and other such work was commonplace.
and I think this was just too much for you to get to grips with straight up!! and yes perhaps some background - research/understanding/familiarity etc. might have been a benefit.
Having read the text that goes with this, these images do convey your own feelings of the particular event, so that achieve something in the way you perceived this situation and the way you captured it but from your perspective – not the animals.
btw well done on doing this, lots wouldn’t have attempted it.

sineadw

Wow - wasn't expecting that! @Artyeva and Fionn - Yep I was bloody terrified and shocked, although I did know what I was letting myself in for. I had to walk away and come back several times, and made a very uncharacteristic alliance with a three-legged dog; the two of us hiding behind a gate for some of it. In fairness, all the research in the world wouldn't prepare you for that. And the project is as much about me and my reaction to it all as it is about Darren. I think to an extent you could say that about all documentary photography, good or bad. I didn't capture the essence of it though - you're right. Its hard! Not a snarky comment - genuine question: Do you know anyone who has?? Apart from rodeo and bullfighting stuff I can't really find reference photos for this type of thing, and its a different set of archetypes.

Thanks everyone for all the comments. I genuinely wasn't expecting such positive ones (AnCat I'm all embarrassed ) AR - all I can say is I warned you! I don't think because you disagree with something it shouldn't be documented though. Would put a lot of war photographers out of business for a start.

sineadw

Oh and Hi Lisa, nice to see you here

AnimalRights

Yeah sorry Sinead. I agree with Artyeva's c n c and not because it was critical, honestly!

dakar

I think it's interesting that the people who've seen it all before are expecting maybe a bit more from these shots.

I've been trying to think what I would do differently if I were the photographer and I suppose I'd try to get in closer and get a more intimate perspective on what was going on, with more of a focus on the details and maybe trying to speak a bit more for the unfortunate animal.

BUT I was responsible for the safety of everyone involved as well as the welfare of the animal, and even if Sinead had wanted to go gung ho and get stuck in in front of the bullock's head or just out of reach of my arms as I was drawing back on the wire, I simply couldn't have let her. Cattle are big, strong and unpredictable, especially when stressed, and I wouldn't be comfortable allowing even someone who was experienced around stock get much closer than this. I know that this robs the shot of some of the immediacy and adrenaline of the situation, but I'm afraid it's just the way it had to be.

What I'm finding fascinating about being involved in a documentary project is how it's not all about the shots produced, but the process of how the photographer approaches the subject.

humberklog

A re-shoot?

Ideally I'd try and cart a cherry picker up the farmers yard and snap it all from overhead. Failing getting a cherry picker up a scrabbly old farmers lane though I do think an ariel perspective could work brilliant.

dakar

HK, forgot to answer your question, the horns just get left on farm, very often the farm dog just snaffles a couple as an impromptu chew treat.

I would ask why you are interested, but I'm too scared........:eek: