History ending up in the rubbish dump.

R.Dub.Fusilier

just thought i would relay part of a couple of conversations i had recently. one was with a bloke i work with who was from the Ballybough area of dublin. when he was a kid he used to play on a piece of waste ground in the area and kids being kids he was a little bit nosey and would search the stuff that people would throw out. anyway to cut a long story short he used to find WW1 medals and badges that people no longer wanted . he would give them to his father who would sell the finds for porter money.

the second story is similar. a medal delar used to get all sorts of medals from bin men who would find them in the rubbish when they emptied the bins into the truck. he said this stopped when people started to use black bags as they could no longer see what was in the rubbish.

boring stories i know but there must be vast amounts of our history and heritage that have ended up being cast away never to be seen again.

Morlar

I have heard of militaria dealers in Germany going to house clearances after the owner has died. The council throws stuff out/sells them on the side and dealers compete with each other for things like photo albums, documents and medals.

arnhem44

My father told me a while back that his brother accidentally threw out an Independence medal that got mixed up with some stuff he was clearing out.:(

Faith+1

God all this reminds me what my father told me. My great-grandfather fought for the IRA during the war of independence. Anyway after the treaty he joined the Irish Free State Army and served until he died in the 40's. After his death my Great Grandmother dumped his uniform consisting of Jacket, Trousers, Sam Browne Belt, Shoes, Medals etc....... It beggars belief when I think about it :mad:

chem

I think the main problem over the years here was the troubles in the north. Alot of history been dumped, because people were afraid to be found with it. I was told a story of a young man been found with a british army cap badge. He was a collector notting more, yet the Garda asked him "what dead armyman did this come off?"

I have been told of priceless items been dumped, by people just to save this type of hassle coming to their door. Its a shame that somehow our own history, has been ruined by the recent past.

kowloon

I was talking to a woman a while back who was telling me her brother sold the fathers medals after he died for a pitance. He was a pilot so I showed her some pictures and she recognied the usual war medal and defence medal as his, couldn't tell the difference between the campaign stars, but recognised the DFC. For the money he got for them they may aswell have thrown them out.

Morlar

It is a disgusting aspect of this hobby the way dealers descend on widows like vultures. I have read horror stories about this kind of thing particularly from the states. Also the old line of 'I can't pay you any money but I will take your husbands uniform and medals for my museum if you like' whereby it gets donated and sold in the same day. Or, kept in the shop/museum for a week or two then discreetly sold on the side. Unfortunately old widows who recently suffered a loss are not the best equipped to deal with the kinds of sharks that sometimes work as dealers. Having said that each of us who buy militaria items of any kind unintentionally fuel the whole process.

arnhem44

There seems to be a market for everything these days,what sickens me is the programmes that you see on television,so called experts going into a house and basically the families seem to have no issue handing over there relatives awards and so on when money is mentioned.Its a sad world.I think I mentioned this before on another thread,one time I helped clear out an attic of an old house with my brother,I was only around eleven or twelve at the time and I remember seeing an old split cane rod with a tiny little multiplier reel attached,also there was an old Irish Army greatcoat,the greatcoat got chucked at the time as it seemed simply like rubbish and the reel kept because I was interested in fishing at the time.God if only I had my time back.

FiSe

Yes a sad occurrences, but I wouldn't blame nor the 'experts' nor the 'dealers' on their own as they are in the business and have to make profit, that's their job, but as well the family members, children, grandchildren, who could give a fcuk about their family heritage or their roots.

It's nothing new unfortunately and when driving around, how many beautiful old houses are left falling apart, with ugly bungalow built beside?
Disgrace

arnhem44

I saw lately in Australia that a WW1 trio of British medals issued to an Australian had been found at a dump site and reunited with the family,also another story from Australia where a WW1 Victory medal had been found also at a rubbish tip and was reunited with the family,just makes you wonder was it the family who chucked the medals in the first place.

R.Dub.Fusilier

when i was a kid i found part of a british army brass belt buckle , i still have it , buried in my back garden . it had a crown and a lion on it . it could have belonged to my grandfather but i can not be sure. there was no army or ric barracks close to where our house was built .

Morlar

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

when i was a kid i found part of a british army brass belt buckle ,

Just thinking many of the people here have found something at one point or another. I think Presusse found a medal under the floorboards of his house, mousey if I recall correctly found an ak47 bayonet, and I as a child came across a wine coloured beret and some bullets from god knows where!!

arnhem44

I'll top that one with an old relic grenade,found when we excavated this persons back garden,completely inert.Later the owner of the house found an old rusted SMLE under the flag stones in his floor and an old civilian gas mask in his attic,he chucked the SMLE, kept the grenade(promised to give it to me but I'm still waiting) and gave me the gas mask.

Morlar

arnhem44 wrote: »

he chucked the SMLE, kept the grenade

I'd have chucked the grenade and kept the smle ! Then set about trying to restore it somehow.

There is something about inert explosives - in all seriousness I don't care how old it is or which bog it has been sitting in the bottom of for how many decades I just do not trust them. Even at militaria shows I am slightly wary of old grenades and shells on display.

arnhem44

The SMLE was completely rotten and from memory the grenade was hollow right through,fuze and end cap gone.

danpatjoe

Morlar wrote: »

....There is something about inert explosives - in all seriousness I don't care how old it is or which bog it has been sitting in the bottom of for how many decades I just do not trust them. Even at militaria shows I am slightly wary of old grenades and shells on display.

In my opinion, this is quite a wise attitude to have.

chem

I wonder how much more still lays buried under the ground here?

http://www.newtownabbeytoday.co.uk/news/MARK-DIGS-UP-A-LITTLE.4362006.jp

arnhem44

chem wrote: »

I wonder how much more still lays buried under the ground here?

http://www.newtownabbeytoday.co.uk/news/MARK-DIGS-UP-A-LITTLE.4362006.jp

Thanks for that chem,I often wondered what happened to all those weapons,there must be still loads buried around the place.

chem

arnhem44 wrote: »

Thanks for that chem,I often wondered what happened to all those weapons,there must be still loads buried around the place.

Hi Arnhem,

Alot were dumped during the troubles. I seen a RUC book from the 70s-80s listing weapons used by terrorists and the guns taken into the country in the larne gun running were listed as UVF weapons. Strangely enough you can now buy one in the north of Ireland without licence, as they are classed as obsolete caliber and need no permission to own Most but not all have the UVF stamp/crest on the stock. A piece of history. Their is one on display in collins barracks in Dublin.

dr gonzo

I cant believe how much is found, ive never found anything, probably never will...im just not one of those people unfortunately.

On a side note, the incredibly callous attitude some families have for their relatives' medals is mind boggling, someone in their family fought in a war and not only can they not even hang onto the awards but they cant even give them to someone who would appreciate them. They throw them out?! Madness.

arnhem44

All good things come to those that wait!.It is a sickener to see the carry on of some people but there are other things to consider,items being sold for economic circumstances during hardship or maybe no relation left to accept these,selling them sometimes may put a said item into the hands of a collector,i.e. us and therefore the seller may be happy in the knowledge that at least the item is being cared for properly,the other side of the coin as we all know to this is some sellers once they have the item will break and separate items up for financial gain for themselves and couldn't give two hoot's what the previous owner thinks,it's something that can go full circle really.Throwing thing's out on the other hand with the knowledge they belonged to your relation is in my books pure and simple disrespect.

Morlar

I agree that it's sad to see relatives selling items for a purely financial motive. The way I look at it though is that most families who do look after the memory and the items are the ones you never get to hear about. For every person putting their grandfathers D-day commando gear from pegasus bridge on ebay piece by piece there are plenty more who would be horrified at the thought. There are also a surprising number of people on various militaria forums who have grandfathers who they are researching the history of so it's not all bad news I suppose.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Morlar wrote: »

I agree that it's sad to see relatives selling items for a purely financial motive. The way I look at it though is that most families who do look after the memory and the items are the ones you never get to hear about. For every person putting their grandfathers D-day commando gear from pegasus bridge on ebay piece by piece there are plenty more who would be horrified at the thought. There are also a surprising number of people on various militaria forums who have grandfathers who they are researching the history of so it's not all bad news I suppose.

i was watching TV today and saw a repeat of an antiques programe in which a woman sold her husbsnds uncles WW2 medals and some paper work for , if i remember rightly , £120. it realy annoys me when people sell relatives , had won , war medals and decorations . we have a small ,simple, hand made cross which my wifes grandfather made and carried during the eucaristic congress in 1932 . its not worth 1 penny but its priceless to my wife .

arnhem44

Just found this article from the Telegraph,just goes to show what may turn up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/7650642/Family-of-WW1-soldier-reunited-with-medal-he-threw-away.html

R.Dub.Fusilier

arnhem44 wrote: »

Just found this article from the Telegraph,just goes to show what may turn up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/7650642/Family-of-WW1-soldier-reunited-with-medal-he-threw-away.html

i was told by a badge dealer that some years ago he got a WW1 trio to a Liverpool regiment and managed to trace the family of the soldier , who by then had died , and explained that he had bought them and offered the medals to the family for the price he paid for them , which was a small ammount . he was told that they didnt want them and they never believed the stories that their grandfather told them . the dealer said he would nt go to the trouble again .

i am sure that most posters here would snap the dealers hand off if offered a lost piece of our famlies history back.

arnhem44

I've heard similar stories like that and ones like the medals been reunited with a family only to be found on the market again soon after with all the research that was presented to them with it of course adding value.Even though I'm looking for my own Great Grandfather's medals I'm not sure if I'd be so quick to hand over ones I had unless I thought it to be 100% genuine and the person was in fact looking for them.Does anyone recall the WW1 Victory medal been given back to a woman in Clare I think by someone who found it and traced the family?,probably a couple of years back now.

Jagdtiger

The first thing that I have ever found was an old Irish Defense Forces collar

badge (brass with two crossed rifles) which was stuck in the cement of my

old primary school of all places, just goes to show the advantages of walking

with your head down!


Ever since then I have found tons of interesting things... all of which I found

at table height and had to pay for haha!

Crossing the side of the Marmolade mountain in the Dolomites of northern Italy, a area where there was much fighting between the Austrians and Italians in WW1, I found the remains of a gas mask in the snow, where the glacier was retreating.

Step23

This might be a fitting story to add here,

My uncle bought an old cottage to do up and re-sell. He was clearing out stuff from a wardrobe and decided to look at the stuff he was about to throw out. What did he find but a QSA and WW1 trio to the Hampshire Regiment and a lot of original documents such a discharge papers etc. Had he of not looked before hand it would have got binned.

johnny_doyle

as a poor student many years ago, there used to be two old style pawn brokers near college and there was always old WW1 Death Penny's and medals on display for sale. Sadly, I wasn't into collecting and didn't have the money to buy them then. Today, I'd be a regular visitor if these shops were still open.

MedalFuhrer

My grandfather was in the Royal Army Medical Corp during WW1 and was awarded the Militray Medal. He died young and I never met him. Sometime in the 1960s my granny sent the medal off to the Vatican to be melted down as they had a precious metal appeal at the time. the medal was justa trinket and the documents were the important things. Anyway the documents etc. were given to my Uncle who has been sick for the last few years. I have been doing some digging into my granddad and asked my Auntie if I could look at the documents. She said "Ah I threw out all that old rubbish years ago!" WTF?!?!?! Really WTF?!?! :-(
To disgard a huge portion of someone life just because it's rubbish in your eyes... :-0 :-(