"Putting manners on"

Graces7

Good evening.

I think it was Discodog who used that phrase on the thread re the pony up here?

As we had to contact the volunteer at the SPCA to try to get something done re the goat belonging to the same man as the pony does, we heard the report of the visit from the SPCA inspector several weeks ago

And, yes, four months on, the pony is still incarcerated; still screaming and kicking the walls.

We sang the Easter Dawn in together. Pony and I and the lambs.

It is tied up by the head in the shed not because there is no grazing, or the weather, but the man said, "To put manners on it and to get it used to the rope."

We have never heard of this method.

A few weeks ago, the man spent an hour trying to get the pony into a horse box; all he got was screams and kicks.

Hardly surprising.

Presumably then it still has no "manners"? ( tongue in cheek here of course) So it is still in there tied up.

This is a young man too.

And the SPCA inspector did not see anything amiss in this.

The goat?

He leaves it loose on the road.

Twice this week there has almost been a road accident therefore. Once the lady came knocking at our door as we are the only house up here; she was in a terrible state and we lt her call the Gardai. No response or action. Then yesterday, again.. goat in front of a car and would not move.

The man says," It is my goat and I will do what I want with it."

And yes, we have made a formal offer to house the goat here; it may be leaping the fence although I think not. We have grazing and shelter and have kept goats many years.

But of course, he will not let us have it.

The SPCA inspector said he is a nice family man.

It defeats me all this. It really does and I wonder when the law here will change.

The volunteer we know says he is banging his head against a brick wall; they visit shcholls to try to change what he calls the "mindset" in ireland.

Discodog

I will never understand who decided that Ireland was synonymous with horse care & knowledge. I have several similar ponies near me. One is "having manners put on it" because it is to be kept for the owner's daughter. It takes them a lot of bucket rattling & even then the pony only approaches with caution. He comes straight over to me every time.

Graces7

Discodog wrote: »

I will never understand who decided that Ireland was synonymous with horse care & knowledge. I have several similar ponies near me. One is "having manners put on it" because it is to be kept for the owner's daughter. It takes them a lot of bucket rattling & even then the pony only approaches with caution. He comes straight over to me every time.

Blessings and thanks for this.

Sitting here in bed wearing ear plugs as the door is open.

Wise pony to know who cares. We cannot get near this one as the door is padlocked.

This wee one is getting crazier every day now of course. He has a good pair of lungs on him too.

We have had to put a notice on our gate to tell people that we do not own the animals over the road and not to knock at our door with complaints.

And yes, moonshine re the Irish and horses. Where we lived before, the man left his show pony alone in the next field all winter.

Graces7

Discodog; how long do they let this carry on?

Four months now and the tone has changed; it sounds utterly exhausted. It is breaking our hearts to hear it.

We know it has a halter and is tied by that.

Abuse affects people who see and hear it; especially when we are helpless as we are here.

Three times the wee goat has almost caused an accident now this week alone.

The man is an ************

EGAR

Grace, I would suggest that you contact your local DVO as both animals would be classed as livestock. One has to have a herd number now to keep goats and they need to be kept securely. Same goes for horses, passport etc. I strongly suggest you have a chat with the local DVO inspector.

I have found them very helpful in the past when working livestock cases and they have alot more umph behind them than a SPCA.

Graces7

EGAR wrote: »

Grace, I would suggest that you contact your local DVO as both animals would be classed as livestock. One has to have a herd number now to keep goats and they need to be kept securely. Same goes for horses, passport etc. I strongly suggest you have a chat with the local DVO inspector.

I have found them very helpful in the past when working livestock cases and they have alot more umph behind them than a SPCA.

EGAR; thanks

I emailed them weeks ago and no reply; do you have a phone number, please?

I found them wonderful re some sheep cruelty some years ago.

That is interesting and this man may well not have bothered with paperwork at all.

EGAR

Your DVO is different from mine, just look it up in the phonebook. You have, perhaps, emailed the Department of Agriculture? They are very slow to respond hence my going directly to the source i.e. Galway DVO.

Graces7

EGAR wrote: »

Your DVO is different from mine, just look it up in the phonebook. You have, perhaps, emailed the Department of Agriculture? They are very slow to respond hence my going directly to the source i.e. Galway DVO.

Thanks; the time i emailed the Dept ag re the sheep, I sent it to the general email address asking for advice; that was to Dublin.

Two hours later - and I was in the midlands then - the vets arrived. I was amazed and impressed.


Again last winter I did the same re a horse and again the response was immediate.

Are not some govt depts on strike?

Incidentally the man has sheep so will have a herd number? he is punctilious re moving sheep in trailers.. Just the goat.

Discodog

It is so disappointing that when we have a glut of ponies & prices have crashed that some carry on breeding. There are lots of new foals around & it really makes one wonder if the farmers are expecting some kind of miracle economic recovery.

The Sweeper

Graces7, if the pony is tied up by his halter at all times and cannot get his head down, I don't think he'd last four months. If he can't get his head down, there'll be a build-up of bacteria in his lungs that could result in pleuropneumonia and I believe that the general illness caused by not letting a horse or pony get its head down can even lead to laminitis (founder).

He's probably on a long rope, tied by his halter - if you think he's on a short rope and can't get his head down, mention that when you report it to whatever agency. If they know about horses it may get them to respond more quickly.

Either that, or record him real-time and send the real-time recording to the rescue agencies.

Graces7

Well, some progress.

They rounded up the goat y'day, but this morning, back on the road...

They were so rough with her.

Although we now have a large notice on the gate that we do not own the animals and please do not knock on our door, and directing them to the owner...what can one do when an old English lady out for an early ride collides with said goat.....

Needless to say, the Gardai were called.. at that early hour the call went through to HQ in B'Shannon and 20 minutes later man comes steaming up the road...Must have got him out of bed!!!!

Goat is now in the field where it used to be; the donkey that had not been seen for some weeks is there again, with a tiny foal.

As you say, Discodog... More and more bred.

Pony is still incarcerated so will call the DVO when the office opens. It must be appallingly hot in that metal shed..

EGAR

Many horsey people I know will not breed from their horses this year and many a stallion owners are complaining that they have no bookings for stud. The situation last year spring was not as severe as it is now, and a mare is pregnant for about 11 months .

I doubt we will see that many foals next year at least not around here.

Graces7

EGAR wrote: »

Grace, I would suggest that you contact your local DVO as both animals would be classed as livestock. One has to have a herd number now to keep goats and they need to be kept securely. Same goes for horses, passport etc. I strongly suggest you have a chat with the local DVO inspector.

I have found them very helpful in the past when working livestock cases and they have alot more umph behind them than a SPCA.

Well, I give up.

The DVO says that goats are not registered as livestock and neither are ponies....

So in his view they are the responsibility of,... the local authority, which mean the SPCA.

And once more.."Well, this IS Ireland and this IS Donegal.."

Goat is leaping fences now; oh that is the Gardai's job...

She was back on the road within minutes.

The Gardai are not interested; they say the goat is well fenced; ie the man is denying it has ever been on the road. And, sure, it is just a goat etc etc. No one is going to get killed.

And no we are not exactly calling you a liar.... But......

Of course he had put it once more behind a fence hastily.

So now I am Public Enemy No 1 to all concerned; and the animals are no better off.

Time to sing.. "Everybody hates me, nobody loves me.. " etc etc etc.

In too much physical pain today also to think straight. Blessings and peace and thanks to all who care.

Over and out. Back to the earplugs also.

EGAR

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalidentificationmovement/nationalsheepidentificationsystem/

Council Regulation (EC) No 21/2004 establishing a system for the identification and registration of ovine (sheep) and caprine (goats) animals came into effect on 9 July 2005.

Registered by the Department hence they are responsible for infractions.


From the horses mouth:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2007/september/title,13300,en.html

Applicants must have grazing livestock - a derogation is available only in respect of grazing livestock (cattle, sheep, deer, goats, horses).

Graces7

EGAR wrote: »

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalidentificationmovement/nationalsheepidentificationsystem/



Registered by the Department hence they are responsible for infractions.


From the horses mouth:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2007/september/title,13300,en.html

THANk YOU!


Much as I suspected; he was doing everything possible to pass the buck and thought I knew nothing.

Also he kept trying to make out that the goat was a feral...for the same reason of course.

I will rest a day or two then think what next; as I suspected, the man was and is releasing the goat deliberately. I was very firm with the Gardai that it WAS a danger.

Told them that WHEN a worse accident happens. it will be their liability as they have been told.

And today so far it is in the field.

There will be cycle races up along here pretty soon and a goat on the road unexpectedly could cause a pile up.

But every time I try to contact the main dept of ag, an "out of office" auto reply comes back and that is the last I hear.

It took a while even to get the local number.

Blessings and thanks EGAR. You are a star.

Graces7

EGAR wrote: »

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalidentificationmovement/nationalsheepidentificationsystem/



Registered by the Department hence they are responsible for infractions.


From the horses mouth:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2007/september/title,13300,en.html

As I was about to call the local DVO again, an email came from a man who turned to be him; in response to a query we had sent almost a year before.. again evading all responsibilty on similar grounds.

They are all passing the buck, literally.

I called Dublin to get his number and they could not raise the Raphoe office.
I told them re the problem and the year's delay and within minutes an email came on from a Higher Man.

So they have all the latest; which is that almost 6 months on the pony is still incarcerated and every time they try to get it out it kicks and screams at them. ( we are worried that they will destroy it)

We feel now total failures.

That there is nothing that anyone can do now.

As a last attempt; as we could not find planning permission for the large shed on Donegal coco's excellent planning site; we checked with them to see if that building is "permitted" for animals.

It seems it was erected without any planning permission. So that will be addressed next. But it all takes time.

But after more aggro the goat has been moved... I know; we cannot save all.

PS the goat is once more loose, and a sheep....

Graces7

Yesterday, for a few brief hours, the wee pony was out.

It was hard to rejoice; he is thin and cowed and walking very slowly. A shadow of his former self after 6 months incarceration.

A real beauty he is too.

At least he had the sky and grass and air for that wee while.

Apparently there have been other complaints; we knew strangers had been there.

And he has been forced to treat the critter better at last. Should not take so long. It really shouldn't.

And the fact that we have kept on and on and on has pushed action. Pester power they call it.

The man when challenged told other welfare folk that the pony was out every day; cannot abide a liar. He knows we see everything.He now blasts his car horn every time he passes.

Deeply thankful and well aware that it is only pestering that has seen the pony out at all.

Incidentally, we checked with the council and there was no planning permission for that large shed. So the enforcement officer will be at him.. I suspect that the proximity to our house will decide matters. Hope so.