Baptised / not - does it influence getting a place in a catholic (nun run) school

mr_happy

Just wondering are these schools obliged to take first come first serve or is there a bias towards those baptised?

tscul32

Ask for a copy of their enrolment policy, that should list the order in which the places are allocated.

Nevyn

No they are not obliged to take first come first served, they are allowed legally to set thier own policy and places are awarded based on a bunch of critia laid out in the enrollment policy.

LashingLady

Hopefully times will-a-change in the near future, but unfortunately this seems to be a major factor in people deciding whether or not to baptise their children into the catholic faith. To me it seems to perpetuate the cycle of people baptising even though they wouldn't if school wasn't a factor if you know what I mean.

If you live in Dublin or other larger towns, there are some alternatives to Catholic schools. My little fella has been enroled in the local Educate Together since he was 7 weeks old, so if anyone tells me he won't get into a school because he's not baptised, I happily tell them not to worry as he'll go to a very fine school.

Choice is the biggest problem in this country. But it's not going to be solved while people continue to have their children baptised solely to get them into the local school. (Sorry if this wasn't what you were asking but I'm making assumptions based on direction of your other thread)

Dades

Sometimes the school website will give you that info. If they mention holding to a Catholic or Christian ethos, I'd imagine your unbaptised child will (legally) slide down any list.

Ickle Magoo

mr_happy wrote: »

Just wondering are these schools obliged to take first come first serve or is there a bias towards those baptised?

There is usually a bias, call the school in question and ask them what their particular policy is - some are staunchly biased regarding admitting children that follow their ethos, some not so.

Nevyn

It usually boils down to operating numbers.
The running costs of the school is funded by a grant from the dept of education per child.
So if a faith school's intake is 60 pupils they want the full 60.
If there are 60 kids of that faith then fine if not they will gladly take other children to bring the numbers up.
Unfortunatly when there are more kids applying then places there is usually a system which takes relgion, family memebers in the school past/present ect into consideration.

There was not an issue when my son was enrolled for the local school there was when my daughter was enrolled and having a family memeber in the school got her a place.

eth0_

If you're an atheist yet you want to send your child to a catholic school then that makes you something else - a hypocrite.

5uspect

Tis a bit tough not to be when ~99% of all our schools are Catholic run.

Nevyn

eth0_ wrote: »

If you're an atheist yet you want to send your child to a catholic school then that makes you something else - a hypocrite.

I disagree, given that 92% of all primary schools are catholic, a lot of parent's don't have the choice to send their kids to a multi denomintional school.
When the local school is a catholic school and there is no other school with in the arae to send your child do then I don't see how sending your child to that school which is paid for and funded by everyones taxes makes a person a hypocrite.

silverharp

Everyone is going to approach this differently, I live in Dublin so I have a choice and dont have to play games. If you're stuck in a smaller town and you dont have options and there is competition for places I'm not sure what I'd do. In theory I'd sign them up get them into school then exit them from the church and let the school know that I dont want my kids being indoctrinated.

People need to be more direct imo. Too many people tow the line with family and the schools. This isnt a good example to be showing your kids, which is basically saying your weak and that your word doesnt mean anything.

Cabaal

eth0_ wrote: »

If you're an atheist yet you want to send your child to a catholic school then that makes you something else - a hypocrite.

While I'd agree "to a point" sometimes parents have no choice as the nearest non-catholic school could be 20-30 miles away which if you had your kid doing that much traveling it would be very disruptive to their life and would incur high costs.

In addition transport options may not be available to allow them to travel that 20-30 miles, I'd imagine choice may not be a problem in the area you live in so its easy to be on your little horse about it.

Our tax's go towards the school so a parent has every right to utilize its basic services which at the end of the day are education not religious teachings , if you want religious teachings then go to mass

Kids can very much go to a catholic school and still not to have to deal with the religious aspects of it, I should know I went to school with a number of people that were not catholic yet they were in a catholic school because they had no other realistic choices

CapedCrusader

Such a backward country.

Your local state run school can legitimately refuse your child a place if they're not baptised.

I love the educate together concept. Where are children are welcomed equally. Isn't it a sad indictment of this country that this is the exception rather than the rule!

It's a terrible sad state of affairs that people are having their children baptised into a religion just so they can go to the school they want rather than out of a religious conviction. And so the cycle continues.

I've read posts here on boards from people wanting to get married and wondering should they have a catholic wedding because it might inpact on their future children's schooling options.

Sad, sad state of affairs.

Dont be at yourself

What would happen if your child was turned down for not being baptised? Doesn't that fly in the face to their right to an education?

Ickle Magoo

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

What would happen if your child was turned down for not being baptised? Doesn't that fly in the face to their right to an education?

Not at all, the Irish constitution is specifically worded so children have a right to a free education but there is no provisions that that education should be from a local school...on the filp side schools have the legal right to give priority to prospective pupils that follow their ethos, regardless of who lives where. :rolleyes:

Nevyn

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

What would happen if your child was turned down for not being baptised? Doesn't that fly in the face to their right to an education?

They have a right to an education but not in a local school or a school of the parents choice. The state has no issues with children who have to spend two hours getting to and from school twice a day, which can happen down the country.

Dont be at yourself

Thaedydal wrote: »

They have a right to an education but not in a local school or a school of the parents choice. The state has no issues with children who have to spend two hours getting to and from school twice a day, which can happen down the country.

Constitution wording or not, you'd have to imagine that if a child was told to go to a school 2 hours away based on their religion, that the parents would have a real case on their hands. They're effectively being denied 2 basic human rights - to an education, and to religious freedom.

I guess this carry on exists because it's easier to baptise a child than to put their entire education at risk while a case drags through the courts.

pljudge321

Another poster here had some excellent advice regarding enrolling in a catholic school as a non-catholic.

If you are refused a place in the school explicitly request the refusal along with the reasons in writing from the head of the school board. They will not be able to refuse this request without placing themselves in an awkward position, likewise they will not be able to state that your child was refused due to their parents religious beliefs, or lack of, without potentially opening a can of worms. This is assuming you enrolled high enough on the ist to be guaranteed a place if your were actually catholic.

dark crystal

CapedCrusader wrote: »

Such a backward country.

Your local state run school can legitimately refuse your child a place if they're not baptised.

I love the educate together concept. Where are children are welcomed equally. Isn't it a sad indictment of this country that this is the exception rather than the rule!

It's a terrible sad state of affairs that people are having their children baptised into a religion just so they can go to the school they want rather than out of a religious conviction. And so the cycle continues.

I've read posts here on boards from people wanting to get married and wondering should they have a catholic wedding because it might inpact on their future children's schooling options.

Sad, sad state of affairs.

Absolutely agree. The lack of choice when it comes to finding a secular school in this country is nothing short of shameful.

Luckily, we live very near an educate together school and have managed to enrol our son.

However, my first three children went to a catholic school and were asked to supply a baptismal cert. I provided one for the first two, but as we didn't have our third baptised, sent her in without it.
There was never anything said until the class started preparing for their first holy communion, when she was asked to produce it.
I told the principle she wasn't baptised and I got the third degree about why we hadn't christened her and was made to feel like a bad mother for not doing so. When I explained we weren't religious and would feel like a hyppocrite doing so, she said that my daughter would be the only one in the class not to make her communion and wouldn't that be terrible.

In the end, my daughter felt so excluded, she begged me to baptise her in order to fit in and make her communion with the rest of her class. I really resented doing it, but didn't want to cause her any undue upset and bit the bullet and had her christened.

Thank goodness for Educate Together is all I can say. Now, at least my son will be encouraged to accept all people, whatever their creed and not be indoctrinated and made to conform to something we don't believe in.