Vision for the future.

af_thefragile

I have had this idea for how the future motoring system should be set up like. Everyone in the future either wants you to drive around in dreary plastic boxes running on laptop batteries to work or take the awful bus service which is never on time and you have to share your ride with people sitting at the back blaring out "techno tunes" on their mobile phones.

But I have a different set up in mind. Inspired by something once said by James May and a few sci-fi movies.

My idea set up would include an electricity grid network running on the motorways and major roads.
All electric cars will be like slot cars. You drive upto the motorway as you'ld normally do an then when you get on the motorway, you'ld "slot" into the electricity grid. This way you'ld be using the electricity from the grid network to drive along. And as you'ld be using the electricity from the grid network, its gonna be more efficient than charging batteries off a plug in your house and your batteries could also get charged while they're on the motorway grid. Then when you wanna get off the motorway, you just "deslot" your car and drive off it like you'ld normally do.
This would need a big change in driving attitudes and technology for this to work efficiently. The cars would probably need some sorta GPS automatic driving system and/or radar guided cruise/collision control so that the cars can slot in and out of the grid efficiently without causing any disruption to the flow of traffic.

Then is to solve the city center traffic problem. This could be done by building tunnel roads under the city and all the streets on the city center could be converted into pedestrian (or tram) zones. Well, you'ld only need a few tunnels. These tunnels will then lead to car parks around the city. You drive to whichever car park is closest to your destination. You then park your car there and then walk/cycle to your destination or if its far away, you can take a tram/luas to there.

This way the city center will remain traffic free, everyone can drive across the country in their electric cars without worrying about running out of juice. Also as all the cars on the motorway are running at the same speed controlled by computers and GPS guidance, there will never be any sorta grid lock or traffic delays unless one of those systems catastrophically fails.

Its a very far fledged vision for an efficient and green future city which I doubt will ever happen, especially here in Ireland. But its an idea.

hobochris

af_thefragile

I was thinking more along the lines of this:

smash

How to take the fun out of motoring forever....

Anan1

I'd imagine it'd be extremely expensive to build the infrastructure, but very efficient once done. Would an inductive coupling work, I wonder - ie wires under the road and no direct contact between them and the cars? Cars could perhaps have small batteries, recharging while they're on 'wired' roads and using that charge when they're not.

Marty McFly

Im in two minds would get rid of the likes of rad rag, senseless crashes etc. But half the fun of motoring is the joy of owning a car you enjoy to dive and care for.

af_thefragile

Yeah, but 90% of motorway journeys are all boring anyway.
Think about it. You're coming home from work all tired and you just wanna relax. You can pop onto the motorway and the car mostly drives itself and you just sit in there and relax.

And as all bureaucracies in the future wants us to go electric, you're not gonna have much fun left in motoring anyway. Though you can still drive around the country roads in your petrol cars (if they're still spared) for the fun aspect.

The electricity grid/slot car system would only be done to the major routes such as the motorways and the tunnels leading into town. All/most other roads would still remain normal. Which is what you need the batteries in the electric car for. To drive from your home onto the motorway and back.

colm_mcm

it'd probably be cheaper to have charging stations installed in every car park in the cities!

Dartz

steve06 wrote: »

How to take the fun out of motoring forever....

It's official Green Party policy isn't it?

af_thefragile

colm_mcm wrote: »

it'd probably be cheaper to have charging stations installed in every car park in the cities!

That'll only be a temporary solution to a much growing problem.
Soon there will be much more cars on the road than the current town designs can handle.

What my system will do is sort out the traffic congestion problem, make the cities cleaner by sending all the cars from the city into the underground tunnels and into the carparks and sort out traffic jams on the motorways and in the city center.

Also if you plan on traveling from Dublin to Cork in your electric car, you'll probably have to fully charge your battery overnight, drive to cork, charge the batteries there again over night and then get back to Dublin the next day.

With my system you just drive onto the motorway. Reach Cork with a fully charged battery. Do whatever you have to there. Get back on the motorway and come back to Dublin the same day without spending any time to stop and charg your car batteries.

CtrlAltDelete

'And as all bureaucracies in the future wants us to go electric, you're not gonna have much fun left in motoring anyway. Though you can still drive around the country roads in your petrol cars (if they're still spared) for the fun aspect.'

Take a look at the latest development by Audi - the E-Tron range...:)

af_thefragile

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

'And as all bureaucracies in the future wants us to go electric, you're not gonna have much fun left in motoring anyway. Though you can still drive around the country roads in your petrol cars (if they're still spared) for the fun aspect.'

Take a look at the latest development by Audi - the E-Tron range...:)

I'ld rather have an Audi TT or R8 than any of those electric sports cars.
Electric sports cars imo have no soul or passion. A large portion of what makes a good sports car exciting is all the noise and drama that goes along with it. The whole sense of opening the throttle pushing it to 6k revs, the engine roar and all of that. Along with the speed and acceleration.

With an electric sports car all you get is the speed and acceleration. You press on the pedal, the car whoozes ahead and thats it. Also the battery pack adds a lot of weight to the car, one reason why the Tesla doesn't handle as well in the corners as a Lotus Elise.

IMO the only thing electric cars are good for is for small city cars or large saloon cars cuz they're pretty much like owning a diesel car. Economical and lots of torque to make it easy overtaking in. Though they don't have the range of one...

Marty McFly

af_thefragile wrote: »

Yeah, but 90% of motorway journeys are all boring anyway.
Think about it. You're coming home from work all tired and you just wanna relax. You can pop onto the motorway and the car mostly drives itself and you just sit in there and relax.

And as all bureaucracies in the future wants us to go electric, you're not gonna have much fun left in motoring anyway. Though you can still drive around the country roads in your petrol cars (if they're still spared) for the fun aspect.

The electricity grid/slot car system would only be done to the major routes such as the motorways and the tunnels leading into town. All/most other roads would still remain normal. Which is what you need the batteries in the electric car for. To drive from your home onto the motorway and back.

I think your starting to sway me now;) the being able to relax bit would be great just kick back and let the car do the work.

Plus im also thinking if you were to use your system im guessing travel time could be shortened by considerably a bit in say a dublin to cork drive because the cars would be able to travel at a far greater speed without fear of crashing? Since sped and distance from other cars would be controlled electronically therefore ruling out human error.

As long you could keep your petrol car too for the joy of driving id be ok with it if not happy with it.

colm_mcm

Surely some work should be done on making people not have to commute so much instead?

CtrlAltDelete

af_thefragile wrote: »

I'ld rather have an Audi TT or R8 than any of those electric sports cars.
Electric sports cars imo have no soul or passion. A large portion of what makes a good sports car exciting is all the noise and drama that goes along with it. The whole sense of opening the throttle pushing it to 6k revs, the engine roar and all of that. Along with the speed and acceleration.

With an electric sports car all you get is the speed and acceleration. You press on the pedal, the car whoozes ahead and thats it. Also the battery pack adds a lot of weight to the car, one reason why the Tesla doesn't handle as well in the corners as a Lotus Elise.

IMO the only thing electric cars are good for is for small city cars or large saloon cars cuz they're pretty much like owning a diesel car. Economical and lots of torque to make it easy overtaking in. Though they don't have the range of one...

Maybe read a little more about the E-Tron, I wasn't referring to the sports car version but more in the line of your original post about the aspect of commuting and therefore the E-Tron A1 concept which was unveiled recently. I couldn't agree more about the feel of a true sports car but the future will determine what a sports car is rather than a sports car determining the future... the technology is there for future sports cars to leave the sports car as we know it today standing still.

af_thefragile

colm_mcm wrote: »

Surely some work should be done on making people not have to commute so much instead?

The way things happen, especially here in Ireland is all very reactionary.
The population is going to grow over the next few years due to better healthcare and globalisation and so we can't just sit around and moan about the increasing number of people and traffic in the cities. We'ld have to do something about it.

Though obviously what I plan is gonna take a lot of RnD and would be a massive investment in building the infrastructure but from what I see it, its more of a permanent solution to the congestion and environment problems of motoring.

You would need big companies to start producing suitable cars which can do this job efficiently and safely and set up a template for all cars to go by which is going to requite a complete change in the motoring legislation and car manufacturing. As only the suitable cars can go on the roads with the electrical grid. All the cars would either need to be replaced for the ones which can go onto the grid or be somehow converted to be suitable to go on it.

So yes, its big money and big risk investing in the completely radical new infrastructure. Which is why I don't see it happening in a country like Ireland.

A more short term solution is to build taller buildings to accomodate more people in town or as things happen in Ireland, add more taxes and levys on the motorist to eventually force him to stop driving and take public transport. A temporary solution to a long term problem.

af_thefragile

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

Maybe read a little more about the E-Tron, I wasn't referring to the sports car version but more in the line of your original post about the aspect of commuting and therefore the E-Tron A1 concept which was unveiled recently. I couldn't agree more about the feel of a true sports car but the future will determine what a sports car is rather than a sports car determining the future... the technology is there for future sports cars to leave the sports car as we know it today standing still.

They're just another bunch of electric cars with all sorts of promises about improves efficiency and all that. But I get it what you say about the future determining what a sports car is.

I guess its because we're from a generation of petrol lovers, we're more attached to the petrol engine. The playstation generation that comes after us might not be that attracted to the mechanical cogs and bolts that has fascinated us but is going to be more of a bits and bytes generation.
Even lego nowdays has been making toys with not mechanical bits but computer chips instead.

For them power and excitement might not come from seeing cranks move and gears engage but from the processing power of computers.
Its evident in F1 already where once it used to be the ultimate in mechanical automobile engineering, now it has more computer power in it than Bill Gates briefcase!

So yes, probably the next generation might not see the sports car as we do.

Anyway, still my plan is only to convert the large major roads so that the daily commute can be made more relaxing. No one while getting back from work is looking for a fun, exciting and sporty drive back home. They just wanna wind down and relax...

bongi69

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

I think your starting to sway me now;) the being able to relax bit would be great just kick back and let the car do the work.

Plus im also thinking if you were to use your system im guessing travel time could be shortened by considerably a bit in say a dublin to cork drive because the cars would be able to travel at a far greater speed without fear of crashing? Since sped and distance from other cars would be controlled electronically therefore ruling out human error.

As long you could keep your petrol car too for the joy of driving id be ok with it if not happy with it.

Reminds me of that film IRobot with Will Smith

hi5

They are already working on it.

http://www.citelec.org/eviac/eviac1.htm#State

pajero12

Could be along time before any of this comes in..In back to the future 2 they imagined everyone in hovercars!
Hurry up science!!!

af_thefragile

bongi69 wrote: »

Reminds me of that film IRobot with Will Smith

Actually thats where I got part of the idea from. Especially about all the traffic diverted into underground tunnels and carparks while the city streets turned into pedestrian zones...

GTE

Overtaking?

How about an electric plate that is flush with the tarmac which a metal wheel in the middle of the car extends down and runs on. Then that lets you overtake.

But when you change lane you would damage the wheel . . Hmmmmmmmm.
Bumps and humps in the road could make the wheel jump and cause epic sparkage. .
Good idea, will take crazy money to implement though.

af_thefragile

bbk wrote: »

Overtaking?

How about an electric plate that is flush with the tarmac which a metal wheel in the middle of the car extends down and runs on. Then that lets you overtake.

But when you change lane you would damage the wheel . . Hmmmmmmmm.
Bumps and humps in the road could make the wheel jump and cause epic sparkage. .
Good idea, will take crazy money to implement though.

Why would you wanna overtake though?
It just would be like slot cars go. Most of it is gonna be computer controlled.
The driver will have to do minimal work.
The whole point of the system is that all the cars travel at the same speed controlled by a computerised system so all the traffic could flow smoothly without any collisions, incidents or traffic jams.

And there would be these kind of things for when cars need to change lanes on the motorway.


The cars could just be like slot cars, with a little pin like thing that slots into the groove in the road and brushes underneath the car to gain power from. these could be retrievable so when the car gets off the motorway, the pin thing and brushes retrieve up into the car and you can drive off normally.

And yes, the roads would have to be smooth.

GTE

af_thefragile wrote: »

Why would you wanna overtake though?

Because Im a man and the person in front of me is too slow

If its a fully automated system ie. the drives itself then frankly I want nothing to do with it. If the driver still controls the action, at least it terms of speed then overtaking will have to be considered.

Even if it was fully automated there should have a provision to set the speed at which you wish to travel. A speed which they feel safe driving at.

If a cars motors breaks down or becomes less efficient to the point it cant maintain speed that would mean there would be a major tailback.

The system you are talking about is similar to trains and when a train wants to change track they use the points.

So if I wanted to change lane to overtake I would have to wait for a set of "points" to come up and even then it would be down to who is coming up behind.

These are just things coming to my head.

I do like the idea of a continuous charging mechanism for electric cars on motorways however giving it fully automated features would have me wary of it.

af_thefragile

^There are things to consider about breakdowns and such. Which could potentially cause tailbacks until they're cleared away. Maybe there could be like a hard shoulder lane where any car that has broken down could be moved to till some sorta assistance can come and tow it away.

Though the motorway is pretty much like a train line. Its not meant for "driving pleasure" or anything as such. Its to get people to and back from work.
As I mentioned, when you're coming back from work, the last thing you wanna do is to go on a sporty/fun ride. You just wanna wind down and relax in your own little space which is what this system offers. You get off work, drive onto the motorway and relax till you get off the motorway.

The advantage of a computer controlled system is that the computer can control all cars to be able to travel at high speeds and as the person is not controlling the car, the human error element is removed making the commute much faster and safer.

This system would only be functioning on the motorway and the tunnel systems going into the city. As these road networks would be like the "commuting lines". For people to get to and from work fast and safe and for people to get from one city to another fast and safe.

All other suburban, national and regional roads will be normal roads where you can drive around normally as you like to.

This way as all the roads don't need to be converted into electrical grid lines, the costs will be minimal and practical and there would still be plenty of roads around for driving pleasure!

MCMLXXXIII

Right now the infrastructure is built with homes and shoppes and offices etc. all along the side of the road. Cars pull over all the time to drop someone off, without actually going into a car park - you wouldn't be able to do that on a one-lane road where you can only switch lanes every so often. This would be great if there were attractions only at main corners with large car parks, but that's not how it is.

Also, would buses be automatic drive? How will they know to stop if there is someone at the station? Will the bus still stop even if there is no one getting on or off? What if a tram that is driven by a real person gets into an accident with another car and blocks the road? The people already on that road would be stuck behind the accident. Then when the police/fire/paramedics come by to the accident, no one could pull off the road to let them through.

What if there is a large storm that puts the electricity out? What if a tree falls onto a power line that leads to the grid? If there is too much traffic in one area will it “blow the fuse?” Remember what happened in the Midwest in 2003? Detroit to Cincinnati to New York to Boston to Toronto had no electricity for three days because a surge in Ohio overworked the system. I have no idea is the ESB is still considering an nuclear plant, but those take 3-5 days to reset after going out like they did in Canada and the US.

For now, and in the long run, I think it is much less expensive to keep buying petrol at €2 (and research other alternative fuels) instead of paying more in taxes to upkeep that system and somehow pay for the electricity being used.

daveharnett

af_thefragile wrote: »

My idea set up would include an electricity grid network running on the motorways and major roads.
All electric cars will be like slot cars. You drive upto the motorway as you'ld normally do an then when you get on the motorway, you'ld "slot" into the electricity grid. This way you'ld be using the electricity from the grid network to drive along. And as you'ld be using the electricity from the grid network, its gonna be more efficient than charging batteries off a plug in your house and your batteries could also get charged while they're on the motorway grid. Then when you wanna get off the motorway, you just "deslot" your car and drive off it like you'ld normally do.

The first generation of 'driverless' cars will work like this.

There will be a dedicated lane in each direction on motorways for automated cars. The lanes will be shielded from general traffic, with slips every x miles.

Once a car enters one of the slips, it will start to communicate with other cars in the auto-lane, and merge automatically and seamlessly. Cars in 'auto lanes' will be able to travel faster and much closer together than human-controlled cars, because the whole convoy can react to any hazards instantly.

When the driver wants out, they just use the indicator and the car will pitch them out at the next slip, and return control to them.


Lots of benefits to this scheme. From the road planner's point of view, it allows for narrow, high capacity, high speed, safe lanes. From the driver's point of view, it allows you to read the newspaper while hurtling through the most boring part of any commute. From the polar bear's point of view, it allows clever fuelling options like the op's, and the slipstream effect of cars in close convoy will save lots of energy.

af_thefragile

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

Right now the infrastructure is built with homes and shoppes and offices etc. all along the side of the road. Cars pull over all the time to drop someone off, without actually going into a car park - you wouldn't be able to do that on a one-lane road where you can only switch lanes every so often. This would be great if there were attractions only at main corners with large car parks, but that's not how it is.

Also, would buses be automatic drive? How will they know to stop if there is someone at the station? Will the bus still stop even if there is no one getting on or off? What if a tram that is driven by a real person gets into an accident with another car and blocks the road? The people already on that road would be stuck behind the accident. Then when the police/fire/paramedics come by to the accident, no one could pull off the road to let them through.

What if there is a large storm that puts the electricity out? What if a tree falls onto a power line that leads to the grid? If there is too much traffic in one area will it “blow the fuse?” Remember what happened in the Midwest in 2003? Detroit to Cincinnati to New York to Boston to Toronto had no electricity for three days because a surge in Ohio overworked the system. I have no idea is the ESB is still considering an nuclear plant, but those take 3-5 days to reset after going out like they did in Canada and the US.

For now, and in the long run, I think it is much less expensive to keep buying petrol at €2 (and research other alternative fuels) instead of paying more in taxes to upkeep that system and somehow pay for the electricity being used.

You really didn't read through the thread didn't you...
This system is only for the motorways. No one stops in the middle of the motorway to do some shopping or anything as such.

And as for the tunnel system in the city, its no different from parking your car at a carpark and then walking around the city center to do your shopping, go to work, whatever you do in the city center. Only difference would be that instead of driving on the road between all the pedestrians, you'ld be driving in underground tunnels which lead straight to the car parks. Freeing up space in the city center making it safer. There would be no cars driving around on the city center roads, they'll all be made into pedestrian zones.

As for the buses, the busses could still drive on the existing roads (remember only the motorways are converted into the electric grid) and they could maybe drive upto the city center from where people could take the tram service going across the city center to get around. So in the city center there would be no cars or busses, only pedestrians, cyclists and the tram lines.

As for an electrical failure, the system could have a backup generator. If that doesn't work either, the cars would then have to run on their own battery power till the electricity is back online.

You are going to eventually pay more taxes on the petrol car and petrol prices are going to go past €2 in the near future. This would definitely be a massive project which would cost billions. Which is why I say its never going to happen in Ireland (though Ireland is small enough for this set up to run perfectly here as a prototype/experiment). The only thing about the massive investment would be that this would be a permanent solution to the traffic, congestion and motoring problems that could and will arise in the future. Its a very long term thing and as governments don't think about long term things, its not going to happen.

Also it doesn't all need to happen at once. It could happen one thing at a time. Like first build electric cars with a GPS guidance and radar guided collision control system as standard. Then build them with the "slot car mechanism" kit (i.e. the pin thing and conducting brushes). Then install the electrical grid on one lane of the M1 and use that as a prototype lane to iron out all the problems with the electrical and computer control system.
Once that works, this could applied to all the lanes on the M1 and see how the full system works and fix all the problems with it. Once that is done, then you can take it to the next step of building the tunnels to run under the city center leading to the car parks. An extensive tram network could be built around the city connecting the car parks and bus stops that stop outside the city center "pedestrian zone". Once that's done, then divert all city center traffic to the tunnel network and convert the city center into a pedestrian zone with tram lines connecting different parts of the city center.

This way you're not looking at doing it all at once but in little steps...

MCMLXXXIII

af_thefragile wrote: »

You really didn't read through the thread didn't you...
This system is only for the motorways. No one stops in the middle of the motorway to do some shopping or anything as such.

Sorry, I read it, and I guess I just forgot to mention that it seems like A LOT of work for something that's just on the motorways. If there's something sticking out of the bottom of the car it could be easily damaged while driving on regular roads. I know it can be retracted, but don't drive over any debris or anything because it might get caught. It's unlikely, and a bad argument, so let's talk about the one other major issue: cost.

The petrol tax is kind of ridiculous, but the government is going to get its money from somewhere. So no matter what, people are going to hand over the money. The cost is also going to come in with the price of cars. I agree that if this were to happen, Ireland would be a great testing site (you would need to include Northern Ireland) because it is small enough, but still has enough people to get real results from the test. The only thing left is to get Volkswagen/GM/Toyota/anyone to design, manufacture, and sell cars to a market that buys (MAYBE) 250k new cars per year (http://www.scotiacapital.com/English/bns_econ/bns_auto.pdf I took population ratio based on German sales, and I think that's generous). At that rate, it would take 24 years for everyone to have one of these "slotted" cars. There would need to be heavy government subsidies to buy the cars, and the government would also be spending money to implement the system. There would also need to be a way to charge for the electricity on the roads (tolls?). So basically, the government and the people would need to spend money like it's going out of style. It's an awesome idea, I just don't think the demand is enough to make it work.

CtrlAltDelete

Hi all,

This thread actually really interests me and I must thank af thefragile for starting it in the first place because I was about to start a very similar thread myself !

Reason being I am actually currently working on a concept project with a market leading premium car manufacturer as part of my degree studies & will be presenting this in Germany in May.

I have conducted extensive research on this through the last number of months and have come up with a concept idea based on my findings.

However, this is were your posts, comments ( positive and negitive ) will benefit me.

Yes we can have gps guided cars in the future that could allow use to grab a nap on our commute to work or indeed wizz the boys off to the pub in our new motor Saturday night and let our pride and joy retrace our movements back home while we share a kebab but even sophisticated ideas such as this will not address the issue of urban congestion..lets face it, you can put cars on all the tracks you want, make them as small as is possible for our ever increasing posteriors to fit into but no matter how small they are the shear volume of them over time would still lead to congestion.

Therefore, based on my research I am working on a concept based around the initial idea of 'car pooling by manufacturer' which has now developed into the following : I propose a stand alone public transport network which will in no way rely on existing infrastructure ( or lack of ) . We all know the Germans can produce some of the best cars in the world so therefore they've already proven themselves to the masses ( of course there are individual cases of nightmare scenarios ). I envisage a monorail run by an automobile manufacturer that is available as a park and ride with several key stops at strategically planned locations. so we still have the possibility of owning our own vehicle ( in whatever shape or form it will take in future) but we can drive to the park and ride ( with incorporated service area etc/possibly an actual dealership ) and then join like minded commuters for the remainder of our journey where we will have our pre booked ( or possibly purchased) seat/slumber area/work area ( wifi,audio connections etc ) to relax in for the remainder of our trip or a communal are for people just like us to chat about stuff just like we're doing on boards.ie ! This will be very much a premium service, so basically if your willing to subscribe you can avail of all the bells and whistles, much like the existing service of 'first class' offered by airline companies but as a stand alone system and not just a 'section up the front of the Luas with head rest covers and real cutlery'. This would be available to purchase at a reduced rate when purchasing a new vehicle from this manufacturer,much like BMW's extended warranty principle and so it would be possible to keep you seat on the service exclusive to you, ( simply swipe a card or finger print recognition to gain entry) you own your seat as such but just not in your car. It would also be possible to purchase a seat on this service without owning a vehicle ( for commuters living closer to their place of work ) and all users would build up credits which over time would allow them the use of a chosen model car from that manufacturer for a certain period of time i.e a weekend in the country in a 4x4. This service would also allow the manufacturer to introduce concept vehicle interior technology to the system to receive user feedback without having to mass produce the components. Maybe over time these 'park & ride' facilities could actually become CBDs and therefore reduce urban congestion on an architectural level also.

More and more products are marketed today on the service they provide rather than the actual product, the Apple iPod is probably the most common example where downloads generate the most revenue.

Right .. if you have had the patience to read my post id appreciate all your comments / suggestions on what this service would include ( gadgetry user interaction etc etc )
Would you avail of this? safe in the knowledge your journey will be as enjoyable as meeting up with mates or indeed just sitting in front of the tv at home with your feet up.

Feel free to criticize it also ! I will just look on it as constructive criticism !

Thanks

daveharnett

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

Would you avail of this?

Sure, if I could afford the five figure annual cost.

Given the catastrophic cost of privately developing a rail system in/around a city, I can't see anybody limiting the customer pool to owners of a particular car, or to first class passengers only.

CtrlAltDelete

Cheers for your input Dave,

All comments are appreciated.
I agree the task is a huge one but ( taking Ireland, or more specifically Dublin for example ) its nots as if our government are ever going to plan ahead in any make , shape or form & even if they did they more than likely wouldnt have the funds to develop such a system, whereas a market leading vehicle manufacturer would. I know we cant get caught up in our own little country, but as im sure you know many of the vehicle manufacturers are actually owned by the one company so since this concept is a far distant proposal there is the possibility that several of them will be under the one banner anyway.

Just to touch on the 'first class' issue a little, I used this purely as an example to make my vision clearer, Im not suggesting the service would carry such a tag but from a user point of view surely the question is : why would anyone purchase a new Mercedes,BMW,Audi, or other vehicle from this segment in the first place? its like a woman buying an expensive handbag, surely a handbag is a handbag no? to the likes of myself it is but to the user its not therefore my proposed market for this service is the people that already invest in the more expensive vehicles available.

Cheers for your comment though,
I am aware there are huge issues but this is just a concept.

kodute

Is your name Lyle Lanley by any chance?

CtrlAltDelete

Sorry Kodute, although I do watch the Simpsons from time to time. I guess you do too.:)

af_thefragile

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

Sorry, I read it, and I guess I just forgot to mention that it seems like A LOT of work for something that's just on the motorways. If there's something sticking out of the bottom of the car it could be easily damaged while driving on regular roads. I know it can be retracted, but don't drive over any debris or anything because it might get caught. It's unlikely, and a bad argument, so let's talk about the one other major issue: cost.

The petrol tax is kind of ridiculous, but the government is going to get its money from somewhere. So no matter what, people are going to hand over the money. The cost is also going to come in with the price of cars. I agree that if this were to happen, Ireland would be a great testing site (you would need to include Northern Ireland) because it is small enough, but still has enough people to get real results from the test. The only thing left is to get Volkswagen/GM/Toyota/anyone to design, manufacture, and sell cars to a market that buys (MAYBE) 250k new cars per year (http://www.scotiacapital.com/English/bns_econ/bns_auto.pdf I took population ratio based on German sales, and I think that's generous). At that rate, it would take 24 years for everyone to have one of these "slotted" cars. There would need to be heavy government subsidies to buy the cars, and the government would also be spending money to implement the system. There would also need to be a way to charge for the electricity on the roads (tolls?). So basically, the government and the people would need to spend money like it's going out of style. It's an awesome idea, I just don't think the demand is enough to make it work.

As I said, this is a very far fledged vision and I don't see this happening in the next 10-15 years. Infact I doubt this will happen even in the next 50 years.
Its a very long term plan and as I said, it can only happen one step at a time.
You can't suddenly come up with a totally new system and tell everyone to alrite, buy new cars now cause your old ones will not work on the new system.

The way this would happen is first set up a prototype/experiment lane on one motorway and give/lease out a few cars to selected people to test (like how Honda gave out the FOX hydrogen car to select people for testing out the system). These select people can use the one lane on the motorway and refine the system. This will probably have to be a joint venture between a large car manufacturing company like the VW group and the government. One the system starts to work fine on the one lane, then it could be considered to expand it onto more lanes and put the car up for sale. At this point there would still be the normal lane for people with regular cars to drive on along with the new lanes for people who buy the new electric cars can go onto.
And then yeah, there could be a toll system for people to pay for the electricity they're using on the motorway and as in the future electricity is gonna be much cheaper than petrol, it should be economical.

The major costs here would be the development of the electricity lines on the motorway, the development of the car and the development of the automatic guidance system.

I think it would be a good idea to keep a normal lane or two on the motorway so that people people with normal cars can still use them while this system is being developed and implemented.

The one big problem I see here is that the electric motors and drive train will need to be standardised for these cars so that they can all travel at the same speed. You can't have powerful sports cars and small city cars in the same lane.

Maybe in future they could have different lanes for different cars. The more powerful cars slot into the fast lane and the less powerful cars slot into the slower lane. Though you'ld still need regulation for cars to be able to have a minimum speed limit (as opposed to a maximum speed limit) to be able to use the lanes. Like all cars that can't do over 100mph comfortably can't go into the fast lane, they'll have to slot into the slower 80mph lane. This way you won't have a slow car clogging up the lanes.

About the demand, the demand isn't there right now (neither do I see it being there in the next 15-20years) because petrol is still the choice of fuel for most people. But once electric cars come in, unless they can build batteries that can have a range of over 300miles and can charge to full power in only 5mins, I don't see the EV, as it is now, to be taking over the city streets.

Though I think what we need more than the electric grid motorways are the tunnels leading into the city so that the city streets can be freed of cars creating more space and a cleaner and safer city environment.

af_thefragile

CtrlAltDelete wrote: »

Hi all,

This thread actually really interests me and I must thank af thefragile for starting it in the first place because I was about to start a very similar thread myself !

Reason being I am actually currently working on a concept project with a market leading premium car manufacturer as part of my degree studies & will be presenting this in Germany in May.

I have conducted extensive research on this through the last number of months and have come up with a concept idea based on my findings.

However, this is were your posts, comments ( positive and negitive ) will benefit me.

Yes we can have gps guided cars in the future that could allow use to grab a nap on our commute to work or indeed wizz the boys off to the pub in our new motor Saturday night and let our pride and joy retrace our movements back home while we share a kebab but even sophisticated ideas such as this will not address the issue of urban congestion..lets face it, you can put cars on all the tracks you want, make them as small as is possible for our ever increasing posteriors to fit into but no matter how small they are the shear volume of them over time would still lead to congestion.

Therefore, based on my research I am working on a concept based around the initial idea of 'car pooling by manufacturer' which has now developed into the following : I propose a stand alone public transport network which will in no way rely on existing infrastructure ( or lack of ) . We all know the Germans can produce some of the best cars in the world so therefore they've already proven themselves to the masses ( of course there are individual cases of nightmare scenarios ). I envisage a monorail run by an automobile manufacturer that is available as a park and ride with several key stops at strategically planned locations. so we still have the possibility of owning our own vehicle ( in whatever shape or form it will take in future) but we can drive to the park and ride ( with incorporated service area etc/possibly an actual dealership ) and then join like minded commuters for the remainder of our journey where we will have our pre booked ( or possibly purchased) seat/slumber area/work area ( wifi,audio connections etc ) to relax in for the remainder of our trip or a communal are for people just like us to chat about stuff just like we're doing on boards.ie ! This will be very much a premium service, so basically if your willing to subscribe you can avail of all the bells and whistles, much like the existing service of 'first class' offered by airline companies but as a stand alone system and not just a 'section up the front of the Luas with head rest covers and real cutlery'. This would be available to purchase at a reduced rate when purchasing a new vehicle from this manufacturer,much like BMW's extended warranty principle and so it would be possible to keep you seat on the service exclusive to you, ( simply swipe a card or finger print recognition to gain entry) you own your seat as such but just not in your car. It would also be possible to purchase a seat on this service without owning a vehicle ( for commuters living closer to their place of work ) and all users would build up credits which over time would allow them the use of a chosen model car from that manufacturer for a certain period of time i.e a weekend in the country in a 4x4. This service would also allow the manufacturer to introduce concept vehicle interior technology to the system to receive user feedback without having to mass produce the components. Maybe over time these 'park & ride' facilities could actually become CBDs and therefore reduce urban congestion on an architectural level also.

More and more products are marketed today on the service they provide rather than the actual product, the Apple iPod is probably the most common example where downloads generate the most revenue.

Right .. if you have had the patience to read my post id appreciate all your comments / suggestions on what this service would include ( gadgetry user interaction etc etc )
Would you avail of this? safe in the knowledge your journey will be as enjoyable as meeting up with mates or indeed just sitting in front of the tv at home with your feet up.

Feel free to criticize it also ! I will just look on it as constructive criticism !

Thanks

So what you're saying is that you drive upto the tram/monorail station, park your car there and get into your personal compartment?

Although the idea is not that much different than driving upto the train station and taking the train into town from there. Only difference is that you have a nicer train compartment with like minded people.

What I like about it is that its not gonna take that much more to implement as my idea does. The existing Luas lines could be used for this.
I also like the idea about sitting around with your mates/like minded people and going to work with them.
And I do like the way manufactures can try out concept interiors and all in there and get feedback on it.
There could be large car parks which the people can just drive into and from there they take the train/tram into town.

What I don't like about it is that this might end up in a bit of a class war.
There's gonna be all the fancy "premium/1st class" people at the front in their fancy compartments. Then the less fortunate towards the back in their more basic compartments. This doesn't create much problem in planes but for daily commuting, I don't see people liking this system for long...
Another problem I see is that if a person wants to travel from one end of the city to another, he'ld either have to take the train to that end or drive around the city to get to the other end. Unless there could be a system where the person has a choice of leasing out another car when he gets to the other end of the train network. So he could drive off from the other side.

Maybe a system where people could park their car into a train that goes into town could work better. Like on the eurorail. This way people can stay in their car, they can get off where they want to and drive off from there to where every they need to. Still have all the mobility of owning a vehicle while keeping the city center clear of cars as they're all locked up in the train lines. One problem with this is that you'ld need pretty large trains and trains have to be very frequent. No one likes waiting 20-30mins for the next train to arrive...

Though my views are very idealistic and you'ld need huge pressures from certain people and communities to make them happen.

Unfortunately the world just pushes along by natures entropic forces. Every change that happens is only a short term solution to a long term problem. The problem remains, its just delayed for the next government, next generation to deal with.

Your plan is a lot more economically feasible for the corporations and so would work better for them. Its better than sitting around doing nothing (as we like to do in this country) but I don't see it as a permanent solution.
As I mentioned above, the biggest problem I see with this is a class divide emerging between the people.

CtrlAltDelete

Thanks for the input.

On the points you made.

Firstly, there would indeed be class divide, but not on this system.. no seperate compartments, the only divide would be created by who was willing to pay for the premium service or not. Thus avoiding the kind of 'oh them @*% in first class' attitude. its like, and again i will use Apple as an example - why buy an iPod when you can buy a mp3 player for a fraction of the cost.. its because of the service that is provided.

With the issue you raised regarding final destination... because we're talking WAY down the road here the speed at which this entire system would operate would minimize travel times with a continuous loop monorail but with two lines, in opposite directions and strategically located stations along with a number of trains or 'capsules' depending on the geographical layout of the city and indeed the population.

I'm not saying that once you get off this system you walk everywhere, the city would still require taxis in some shape or form.. electric/hydrogen etc as indvidual needs for specific requirements cannot be catered for on a public level. Its like saying get rid of cars or individual forms of transport altogether..its never going to happen. My proposal is just a solution to the problem of traffic congestion. Drive into the city to work or on a sunday afternoon if you please !

My idea is one of a public transport network but just one that nails the problem on the head and provides a decent service...one thats a pleasure to travel on. Yes expensive.. but but why buy a mercedes when you could buy a Daewoo for a fraction of the cost... ?

views apperciated.

Theanswers

Just thought of this,
The goverment can even get broadband to parts of this country... What makes people think they would be able to get this electric service up and running! I just dont see it working!

THey should fix the roads,
As

On a road near me, there is a large number of potholes one so big a 4x4 jeep (RR) spun coming out of it! Great investment there.