The future of Man Utd

Headshot

Dempsey wrote: »

Man City will be definitely spending in the summer
Chelsea will be spending
Arsenal will spend if Wenger wants to
Will Man United spend? Will they have the money to improve and keep pace with the above? I'm not sure tbh

Its looks like United will slip down the pecking order next season. Man United fans have been trying everything to get this thread locked because they dont want to discuss the problem.

we only spent around 12m last summer and we're keeping up with the rest just fine

SlickRic

Xavi6 wrote: »

Indeed, and they have come out of simar slumps, for want of a better word, before.

However that was in large part due to the core group of homegrown talent that has been there for 15 years or so. What happens when they're gone? That safety net won't be there.

fair point with the homegrown stuff, but I just feel it's all a bit premature.

the OP's main problem was indeed the OTT nature of the original point. it sent this thread all a bit wonky.

and i'll be honest, it's late, and i posted my 'laughing clip' without reading the OP, after just seeing a ton of people take the p*ss out of Utd's demise and lack of a future.

Paul Tergat

Dempsey wrote: »

Its looks like United will slip down the pecking order next season. Man United fans have been trying everything to get this thread locked because they dont want to discuss the problem.

The same was said this season. See the prediction thread at the start of the season for proof. Typical overreaction bs

Chucky the tree

Headshot wrote: »

we only spent around 24m last summer and we're keeping up with the rest just fine

FYP.

Mr Alan

if you're not moving forward, you're going backwards in the premier league. there is no doubt about that in my mind. it'll just be interesting to see if indeed there is money there in the summer for United.

recylingbin

m@cc@ wrote: »

Same was said last season as it has been said many seasons before that.

and they've been caught by Arsenal and Chelsea. Neither of which are having 'stellar' seasons.

BTW, I reported your previous post. If you can stick to discussing the topic instead of levying abusing at me, I'd appreciate it.

Headshot

Chucky the tree wrote: »

FYP.

list'em

val was 12m according to saf (inside utd) obertan 3m, so im out by 3m

smalling was bought during jan so i wasnt including him.

adox

Dempsey wrote: »

Man City will be definitely spending in the summer
Chelsea will be spending
Arsenal will spend if Wenger wants to
Will Man United spend? Will they have the money to improve and keep pace with the above? I'm not sure tbh

Its looks like United will slip down the pecking order next season. Man United fans have been trying everything to get this thread locked because they dont want to discuss the problem.

Do you really think spending money is the bee all and end all?

Despite spending most countries national debts on players in the summer, Real Madrid didnt even make it to the quarter finals of this years competition.

Jesus if only football was as straight forward as many on this thread seem to think.

As for the OP, well a valid question or not to ask, his subsequent ridiculous listing and opinions of United players is just trolling and he has backed it up even more with his replies.

I`m actually annoyed with myself now for getting sucked into this nonsense.

Mr Alan

Headshot wrote: »

list'em

val was 12m according to saf (inside utd) obertan 3m

smalling was bought during jan so i wasnt including him.

Ferguson lies. Alot. Just in case ya didn't know!

m@cc@

recylingbin wrote: »

BTW, I reported your previous post. If you can stick to discussing the topic instead of levying abusing at me, I'd appreciate it.

Just for future reference, I don't need to know this kind of stuff.

recylingbin

m@cc@ wrote: »

Just for future reference, I don't need to know this kind of stuff.

Just in case you were wondering.

Dempsey

m@cc@ wrote: »

Same was said last season as it has been said many seasons before that.

Alot more changes need to happen this summer though. I dont think it was said for many seasons before that as Man United was one of the biggest spenders season in season out.

Headshot wrote: »

we only spent around 12m last summer and we're keeping up with the rest just fine

The rumour is that Valencia cost €20M, and obertan cost €5M, dunno where you got 12 from tbh.

If Man United spend then they will be fine but where is the finance going to come from. Ye keep missing that point. Man United hasnt been in this financial position before

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ferguson lies. Alot. Just in case ya didn't know!

he never lies, he was damn about those pesky german cheaters

UnitedIrishman

Dunno if it's a wind up or genuine, either way it's the most stupid thread I've seen in quite some time.

Seriously ****ing stupid.

Chucky the tree

Headshot wrote: »

list'em

val was 12m according to saf (inside utd) obertan 3m, so im out by 3m

smalling was bought during jan so i wasnt including him.

Valencia was £16m according to BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/8127596.stm. Oberton £3.6 from the site I use. Your man diouf cost a few million as well didn't he?

Mr Alan

adox wrote: »

Do you really think spending money is the bee all and end all?

Despite spending most countries national debts on players in the summer, Real Madrid didnt even make it to the quarter finals of this years competition.

Jesus if only football was as straight forward as many on this thread seem to think.

As for the OP, well a valid question or not to ask, his subsequent ridiculous listing and opinions of United players is just trolling and he has backed it up even more with his replies.

I`m actually annoyed with myself now for getting sucked into this nonsense.

Actually spending on transfers and wages is the single biggest factor in making a team successful. I'd advise you read 'why england lose-and other curious phenomena explained', it goes into quite a bit of detail about this kind of thing. And despite Real being out of the champions league, they are top of their league currently ahead of possibly the greatest club side of all time.

m@cc@

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ferguson lies. Alot. Just in case ya didn't know!

Is that a FACT?

Dempsey

adox wrote: »

Do you really think spending money is the bee all and end all?

Despite spending most countries national debts on players in the summer, Real Madrid didnt even make it to the quarter finals of this years competition.

Jesus if only football was as straight forward as many on this thread seem to think.

As for the OP, well a valid question or not to ask, his subsequent ridiculous listing and opinions of United players is just trolling and he has backed it up even more with his replies.

I`m actually annoyed with myself now for getting sucked into this nonsense.

If spent right, it improves the team.

Man City have improved a good bit with the investment they have gotten. Chelsea improved alot aswell, so did Aston Villa.

Read Madrid is just a bad example tbh and doesnt reflect what happens when money is spent wisely

Headshot

Dempsey wrote: »

Alot more changes need to happen this summer though. I dont think it was said for many seasons before that as Man United was one of the biggest spenders season in season out.



The rumour is that Valencia cost €20M, and obertan cost €5M, dunno where you got 12 from tbh.

If Man United spend then they will be fine but where is the finance going to come from. Ye keep missing that point. Man United hasnt been in this financial position before

link ?

I just said where I got my details from saf himself, i think he might know what he's talking about....

Mr Alan

m@cc@ wrote: »

Is that a FACT?

Yes.

wobblyknees

Seriously though, how many £10, 20 and 30m players has Ferguson bought in the last 10 years?

adox

Dempsey wrote: »

If spent right, it improves the team.

Man City have improved a good bit with the investment they have gotten. Chelsea improved alot aswell, so did Aston Villa.

Read Madrid is just a bad example tbh and doesnt reflect what happens when money is spent wisely

I dont disagree with any of that but what I do take issue with is if United dont spend alot of money this summer they are basically fooked.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

if you're not moving forward, you're going backwards in the premier league. there is no doubt about that in my mind. it'll just be interesting to see if indeed there is money there in the summer for United.

I have my doubts Al there will be.

recylingbin

How many of the current man united team would make Barca's team?
How many would have 5 or 10 years ago?

Headshot

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Valencia was £16m according to BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/8127596.stm

so man utd never give our transfer details anymore, undisclosed transfer as they say

while I get my details from saf himself

I also lol at this "Valencia's transfer is reported to have cost United as much as £16m"

note to Chucky. "Must try harder"

Chucky the tree

Headshot wrote: »

so man utd never give our transfer details anymore, undisclosed transfer as they say

while I get my details from saf himself

I also lol at this "Valencia's transfer is reported to have cost United as much as £16m"

My bad, I didn't know you and alex were such good mates.

Dempsey

Headshot wrote: »

link ?

I just said where I got my details from saf himself, i think he might know what he's talking about....

Most media outlets rumoured it, google would show that.

Did you really get the information from SAF himself, can you prove it?

If SAF was blabbing on about an undisclosed fees to random people then why didnt the media get wind of it and update their articles?

parker kent

Dempsey wrote: »

Man City will be definitely spending in the summer
Chelsea will be spending
Arsenal will spend if Wenger wants to
Will Man United spend? Will they have the money to improve and keep pace with the above? I'm not sure tbh

Its looks like United will slip down the pecking order next season. Man United fans have been trying everything to get this thread locked because they dont want to discuss the problem.

Same old story since 1995. Of course United will have to replace players. Every team does. But why is everybody so sure that all the other clubs will actually spend money wisely? How can you be sure that Torres or Fabregas wont go to Spain? Liverpool and Chelsea have aging players of their own.

Ferguson not spending money is seen as a sign United don;t have money, but Wenger not spending money is somehow not a sign that Arsenal don't have money. Why is that?

A more pertinent question would be to question the Premier League as a whole. Not on the basis of several narrow defeats in Europe this year. But along the lines of serious money problems across the country. Add in the tax issue too, Spain is much more lucrative now. Just ask Jermaine Pennant Plus the issue of dominance being cyclical, different leagues have periods of dominance. England had it in the late 70s/ early 80s. Italy had it in the 90s. Spain had it at the turn of the century. Now there might be a more egalitarian phase with the return of French and German teams. Or it could be a complete one-off year, a la Porto and Monaco. What odds a Lyon-Inter final?!

But whatever happens, United are not finished. This is not burying my head in the sand, they have issues. But the core team remains that have won the last 3 leagues. They might win another in a few weeks. If Rafael had not been sent off, a team without Giggs, Scholes and Neville would have in all likelihood won tonight. That bodes well for the future. One or two crafty signings and they will challenge strongly again next season.

jaykay74

Why isn't all this in the Utd superthread ? seems a bit pointless having this seperate.

timetogetfit

recylingbin wrote: »

How many of the current man united team would make Barca's team?
How many would have 5 or 10 years ago?

current team 4

Nalz

jaykay74 wrote: »

Why isn't all this in the Utd superthread ? seems a bit pointless having this seperate.

True...but it could get out of hand there so in the end it will act as a filter for all the potential sh^t! Just kidding its an interesting topic

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

I have my doubts Al there will be.

Well then United fans should be very grateful that they have one of the greatest managers in the history of the game and some of their best ever players still at the club because, unless proper investment into the team is forthcoming over the next few years, dunphy's comments about the blue side of manchester may not be as daft as they initially sounded.

recylingbin

parker kent wrote: »

This is not burying my head in the sand, they have issues. But the core team remains that have won the last 3 leagues. They might win another in a few weeks. If Rafael had not been sent off, a team without Giggs, Scholes and Neville would have in all likelihood won tonight. That bodes well for the future. One or two crafty signings and they will challenge strongly again next season.

The core of the triple league winning team is playing in Spain this season.
Just losing out to a poor team isn't much to be bragging about.

recylingbin

timetogetfit wrote: »

current team 4

Really?
Go on then. Make me laugh.

TheDoc

Xavi6 wrote: »

Indeed, and they have come out of simar slumps, for want of a better word, before.

However that was in large part due to the core group of homegrown talent that has been there for 15 years or so. What happens when they're gone? That safety net won't be there.

If the last 10-15 years is anything to go by, is when things look bleak, and a hero is about to walk off the pitch for the last time, there will be someone there to replace them.

Maybe not as good, but someone as good, or there abouts.

Dennis Irwin was a quality left back, and when he came to his end at united, alarm bells went off, incame heinze who was brilliant, when he was looking bleak, incame Evra, who looks immense.

Schmeichal was to never be replaced. It looked bleak, in steps Edwin Van Der Sar.

Eric Cantona decided to calls quits, and everyone panicked, the end was for united, until Van nistelroy stepped in with a stupid amount of goals.

Steve bruce and gary pallister had one of the most formidabble centre back pairings in premier league history. When they called it quits, where was there to look. Now there is just as a formiddable partnership there.

Ronaldo left for a new challenge and there was panic, up steps wayne rooney.

Now these replacements didnt happen overnight, flops came and went until someone else was found that could do as good a job. And I'm even saying this for Ronaldo. There was huge questions about where the goals and supply would come from when he left, well Rooney stepped his game, Valenica shocked everyone with his ease of adaption and Nani has chipped in a big deal.

Valenica did so well in that first half youd nearly forget united had a bloke called Ronaldo, yes he was against a poor left back, but unlike someone like a walcott, a kuyt or a joe cole or arron lennon, Valencia was penetrative every single time he went at him, and capatalised with two goals.


Talent comes and goes, footballers have a short turn around really, and scholes giggs and neville have done fantastic to last this long. But they will be replaced, there might be flops, money lost but in the end the right replacement will be found.

Lets not forget Sir Alex Ferguson has built three conquering teams of titans in his reign, and has gone through some truely great players, and although he has had to create new teams from scratch, he has still contended for titles year after year, and still won.

To reach the champions league 1/4 finals, and be in contention for the title is a good feat for united, considering it could have been worse.

Imagine Valencia didnt settle and nani wasnt firing the way he is this season. You would be looking to the likes of park for your victories. What if Rooney wasnt firing on all cyclinders, who'd be repacing ronaldos goals.

Teams rise, and teams fall, but the one thing that I've always admired about United and their teams, is when they go through transitional phases, be it major or minor, they are still contenders, powerful and major contenders.

And one thing is for sure, about if will SAF stay in the job or retire, nights like tonight, must put his fire through the roof, to drive into next season gunning for victory.

adox

recylingbin wrote: »

The core of the triple league winning team is playing in Spain this season.
Just losing out to a poor team isn't much to be bragging about.

And that "core" of our triple league winning team playing in Spain got knocked out in an earlier round of the competition. Whats your point?

m@cc@

recylingbin wrote: »

Really?
Go on then. Make me laugh.

I'll have a go:

VDS
Vidic
Evra
Rooney

Xavi6

adox wrote: »

I dont disagree with any of that but what I do take issue with is if United dont spend alot of money this summer they are basically fooked.

The reason money is seen as such a big issue is because the direct replacements aren't in the squad. There is no new Giggs or Scoles, Carrck and Berbatov aren't really pulling their weight, and the only good keeper is pushing 40.

Those players need to be replaced very soon, and the quality isn't there to do it internally.

Nalz

recylingbin wrote: »

Really?
Go on then. Make me laugh.

I think Rooney, Van der Saar, Vidic, Rio and Evra would make the Barcelona team. The likes of Nani, O Shea and Hargreaves as decent squad members. Valencia just might make their squad if we're talking a squad of 20/22 players.

Anyone else no. If someone says Carrick or Berbatov they should be permanently band from boards!

recylingbin

adox wrote: »

And that "core" of our triple league winning team playing in Spain got knocked out in an earlier round of the competition. Whats your point?

I really don't get your non sequitors and lack of understanding.

The point is:
Having Ronaldo allowed united to build a poor enough team and still be succesful as he was good enough to carry the team.
Without Ronaldo, it has become obvious that Rooney is there only very good player.
Without Rooney, they are a nothing team.
Surgery needed.

Mr.Nice Guy

Rafa should be sacked thread?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055864143

= Locked

Time to sack Rafa? thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055798468

= Locked.

Are Liverpool and Rafa done?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055713395

= Thread was altered to 'Haters Gonna Hate' and then locked

Apparently the justification for locking them was due to it being worthy of discussing at the end of the season. Fair enough. Can understand that. Then we come to this joke of a thread 'The future of Man Utd' which is nothing more than a blatant wind-up of fans hurting over the loss of their team where the OP offers nothing constructive and instead does a hatchet job of the squad branding players 'a waste of time', 'old and useless', 'prob a ponce' etc. What happens? One would think judging by what happened to other threads it will be locked, right? Wrong.

= Left Open.

Can someone please explain this one to me, preferably in a calm and reasonable manner, because I can envisage several people waiting at the keyboard eager to call me all the names under the sun over the audacity of me seeing an inconsistency here. Well hold your horses, whoa Nelly etc. I'm just genuinely puzzled by this and interested in knowing why United fans have to put up with threads like this and Liverpool fans do not. I don't think I am being paranoid over what appears to me to be a disappointing lack of consistency.

Are we supposed to believe a Liverpool equivalent would have stayed open? I think not. Can we expect the Rafa threads to be opened soon? I don't think so.

parker kent

recylingbin wrote: »

The core of the triple league winning team is playing in Spain this season.
Just losing out to a poor team isn't much to be bragging about.

There's no point re-hashing all the Ronaldo stories. He left, Rooney took over etc etc. The defence is still there. Rooney is still there. Don't forget were it not for injuries to the defence, they would in all likelihood be a few points clear at the top too.

Bayern are not a poor side. Ribery, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Van Bommel, Lahm, Olic, Altintop would get in many, many teams. Just because Dunphy said they are poor does not mean they actually are.

timetogetfit

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'll have a go:

VDS
Vidic
Evra
Rooney

correct and you could maybe add rio in there too

recylingbin

Trilla wrote: »

I think Rooney, Van der Saar, Vidic, Rio and Evra would make the Barcelona team. The likes of Nani, O Shea and Hargreaves as decent squad members. Valencia just might make their squad if we're talking a squad of 20/22 players.

Anyone else no. If someone says Carrick or Berbatov they should be permanently band from boards!

VDS maybe
Rio - on this season's form? Go on out of that.
Vidic? can't play football. Not going to fit in.
Evra - maybe.
Rooney - yeah.

The players you mentioned as squad players wouldn't get a kick at a barca training session.

Chucky the tree

TheDoc wrote: »

If the last 10-15 years is anything to go by, is when things look bleak, and a hero is about to walk off the pitch for the last time, there will be someone there to replace them.

Maybe not as good, but someone as good, or there abouts.

Dennis Irwin was a quality left back, and when he came to his end at united, alarm bells went off, incame heinze who was brilliant, when he was looking bleak, incame Evra, who looks immense.

Schmeichal was to never be replaced. It looked bleak, in steps Edwin Van Der Sar.

Eric Cantona decided to calls quits, and everyone panicked, the end was for united, until Van nistelroy stepped in with a stupid amount of goals.

Steve bruce and gary pallister had one of the most formidabble centre back pairings in premier league history. When they called it quits, where was there to look. Now there is just as a formiddable partnership there.

Ronaldo left for a new challenge and there was panic, up steps wayne rooney.

Now these replacements didnt happen overnight, flops came and went until someone else was found that could do as good a job. And I'm even saying this for Ronaldo. There was huge questions about where the goals and supply would come from when he left, well Rooney stepped his game, Valenica shocked everyone with his ease of adaption and Nani has chipped in a big deal.

The huge difference is United had the money to work through the expensive flops like Veron etc etc but now they don't have that luxury.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Rafa should be sacked thread?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055864143

= Locked

Time to sack Rafa? thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055798468

= Locked.

Are Liverpool and Rafa done?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055713395

= Thread was altered to 'Haters Gonna Hate' and then locked

Apparently the justification for locking them was due to it being worthy of discussing at the end of the season. Fair enough. Can understand that. Then we come to this joke of a thread 'The future of Man Utd' which is nothing more than a blatant wind-up of fans hurting over the loss of their team where the OP offers nothing constructive and instead does a hatchet job of the squad branding players 'a waste of time', 'old and useless', 'prob a ponce' etc. What happens? One would think judging by what happened to other threads it will be locked, right? Wrong.

= Left Open.

Can someone please explain this one to me, preferably in a calm and reasonable manner, because I can envisage several people waiting at the keyboard eager to call me all the names under the sun over the audacity of me seeing an inconsistency here. Well hold your horses, whoa Nelly etc. I'm just genuinely puzzled by this and interested in knowing why United fans have to put up with threads like this and Liverpool fans do not. I don't think I am being paranoid over what appears to me to be a disappointing lack of consistency.

Are we supposed to believe a Liverpool equivalent would have stayed open? I think not. Can we expect the Rafa threads to be opened soon? I don't think so.

how about we wait until this has over 3,000 posts then we'll close it?

SlickRic

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Are we supposed to believe a Liverpool equivalent would have stayed open? I think not. Can we expect the Rafa threads to be opened soon? I don't think so.

though i agree with the sentiment that the thread is a bit premature to say the least, that Liverpool/Rafa thread stayed open for months.

this has been open 2 hours approx.

have patience.

adox

recylingbin wrote: »

I really don't get your non sequitors and lack of understanding.

The point is:
Having Ronaldo allowed united to build a poor enough team and still be succesful as he was good enough to carry the team.
Without Ronaldo, it has become obvious that Rooney is there only very good player.
Without Rooney, they are a nothing team.
Surgery needed.

Its hard to understand what points you are trying to make when you are churning out such random drivel.

However your ridiculous post above at least clears that up.

recylingbin

parker kent wrote: »

There's no point re-hashing all the Ronaldo stories. He left, Rooney took over etc etc. The defence is still there. Rooney is still there. Don't forget were it not for injuries to the defence, they would in all likelihood be a few points clear at the top too.

Bayern are not a poor side. Ribery, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Van Bommel, Lahm, Olic, Altintop would get in many, many teams. Just because Dunphy said they are poor does not mean they actually are.

Yes. Only united had injuries.

Good teams don't concede as many goals as Bayern do.

Mr Alan

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Rafa should be sacked thread?

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055864143

= Locked

Time to sack Rafa? thread:

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055798468

= Locked.

Are Liverpool and Rafa done?

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055713395

= Thread was altered to 'Haters Gonna Hate' and then locked

Apparently the justification for locking them was due to it being worthy of discussing at the end of the season. Fair enough. Can understand that. Then we come to this joke of a thread 'The future of Man Utd' which is nothing more than a blatant wind-up of fans hurting over the loss of their team where the OP offers nothing constructive and instead does a hatchet job of the squad branding players 'a waste of time', 'old and useless', 'prob a ponce' etc. What happens? One would think judging by what happened to other threads it will be locked, right? Wrong.

= Left Open.

Can someone please explain this one to me, preferably in a calm and reasonable manner, because I can envisage several people waiting at the keyboard eager to call me all the names under the sun over the audacity of me seeing an inconsistency here. Well hold your horses, whoa Nelly etc. I'm just genuinely puzzled by this and interested in knowing why United fans have to put up with threads like this and Liverpool fans do not. I don't think I am being paranoid over what appears to me to be a disappointing lack of consistency.

Are we supposed to believe a Liverpool equivalent would have stayed open? I think not. Can we expect the Rafa threads to be opened soon? I don't think so.

That tinfoil hat getting a bit tight? One of those threads you listed was open for months and is about 225 pages long. The others were closed cause they were opened on the back of the other being closed. And yes, in answer to your question i'd expect a thread about rafas future in the summer, particularly if we don't get fourth

Pro. F

Here's the deal:
*Ferguson and his teams have been written off so many times and yet come back to be the all conquering champions it's unreal.
*If, however, United don't keep up some sort of respectable net spend on players (not as much as City, Chelsea, Real but respectable) then we will fall away from being one of the top teams in the world. Sooner or later.
*The Glazers have fùcked the club financially - that is beyond doubt - it is therefor reasonable to say that the only hope for continued on field success is if it is concretely part of their business plan and if that business plan actually works.
*The current United squad is only one or two players away from being perfect (for want of a better word). We are right in the top tier, competing for the league again this year. Until we stop doing that it is pointless trying to criticise the quality or future potential of Ferguson's team.