Is it selfish of a parent to force their religion onto their child

JimiTime

Erren Music wrote: »

Is it selfish of a parent to force their religion onto their child.

Your use of the words 'selfish' and 'forced' are misplaced. A parent generally teaches and instructs in all things, and that may include matters of sprituality. Judging by your general anti-religion stance, you probably did it for effect, but its certainly a poor reflection on your observation of how a parent acts with their child.

Also, 'If' your poor propagandist term 'forced' was accurate, then the word 'selfish' would be a bad word to use also. All in all, its such a poorly thought out sentance. Its really not a question, but a venting of a view you hold, framed as if you are asking a question.

It is far more important that a child be taught how to think instead of what to think."

Couldn't agree more, but used in the context which you are using it shows a stupendous lack of understanding in what is required in raising and teaching a child.

philologos

So, if this is "wrong", how many of you support enforcing that parents shouldn't be allowed to share their faith with their children in law?

Dades

The thread title is somewhat provocative. Forcing religion implies a parent telling a child what to believe and giving them no choice or allow them to question the matter. That indeed is selfish, and maybe small minded and insecure to boot.

However, teaching your kids what you believe whilst allowing them the choice is different. Personally I don't think it's any more selfish than me telling my kids what I (don't) believe, and why.

Jakkass wrote: »

Christianity provides people with a moral and ethical framework, which is the responsibility of an adult to share with their children to facilitate them in making moral decisions in this world.

Christianity provides essential guidance for a child when growing up in the knowledge of God, prayer, Scripture and other things.

Agree to completely disagree.

If it's so 'essential', how come non-religious kids turn out okay?

philologos

It isn't about "turning out okay". It's about people providing the best moral, and social education they can provide for their child. As Christians, naturally we believe the Gospel is superior to any secular framework for behaviour.

Dades

That was just a figure of speech! Like I said, agree to completely disagree that being raised a Christian is essential for a proper moral and social education.

It's all in the genes anyway!

Erren Music

Jakkass wrote: »

It isn't about "turning out okay". It's about people providing the best moral, and social education they can provide for their child. As Christians, naturally we believe the Gospel is superior to any secular framework for behaviour.

Jackass
You do not even know who wrote those bloody gospels.

please go back to your own forum and stop trying to inflict that rubbish in A+A.

Any catholic who continues to practise and support the RCC deserves a good kick in the bol0 x. Look at what you are supporting.



MODS
Can we have a new rule in our charter.

Dubhghaillix

Jakkass wrote: »

d. As Christians, naturally we believe the Gospel is superior to any secular framework for behaviour.

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

This is the bit where he critizes the Jews for not killing their children like Skygod told them to. You know, since Jesus really had this whole "morality" thing down.

JimiTime

Dades wrote: »

The thread title is somewhat provocative. Forcing religion implies a parent telling a child what to believe and giving them no choice or allow them to question the matter. That indeed is selfish

No its not. Even if its 'forced', whatever that means, its still not necessarily selfish. In fact, I'd say the natural instict of a parent is 'selflessness' with regards to their children. You'll find that the decisions and qualities they bestow in general, they feel is whats best 'for the child'.
You should look at Jesus' teachings about the heart and motivations:)

If it's so 'essential', how come non-religious kids turn out okay?

And many kids from religious upbringing can be wounded by such an upbringing. It comes down to the wisdom of the parents.

I second Jackass' question at this point. Those who think teaching their children with relation to their religion is wrong, what do you propose be done? is it a case that you just want to whinge about it, or are you looking to legislate against it? If so, what do you propose?

philologos

How about reading the chapter in context Dubhghaillix?

Here's a linky. If you read the passage, it is very much about hypocrisy amongst the Pharisees.

philologos

Erren Music wrote: »

Jackass
You do not even know who wrote those bloody gospels.

Do we not?

Erren Music wrote: »

please go back to your own forum and stop trying to inflict that rubbish in A+A.

I've been posting on this forum for a good deal longer than you have. If you post something that is worthy of discussion. I'll post. That's the way it works.

Erren Music wrote: »

Any catholic who continues to practise and support the RCC deserves a good kick in the bol0 x. Look at what you are supporting.

I'm not a Roman Catholic. Rights and freedoms of beliefs are something which all people should be concerned about. I'm supporting the freedom of parents to share their faith with their children.

Erren Music wrote: »

MODS
Can we have a new rule in our charter.

Because you're too closed-minded to even consider the Christian position? Most of the atheists here, are actually reasonable enough to facilitate respectful discussion.

Dades

Erren Music wrote: »

MODS
Can we have a new rule in our charter.

You clearly haven't read the existing charter so I don't see the point.

This isn't your forum to do and say what you like. Consider this your final warning.

PDN

Dubhghaillix wrote: »

Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

This is the bit where he critizes the Jews for not killing their children like Skygod told them to. You know, since Jesus really had this whole "morality" thing down.

Hmm, this leads us to another question, doesn't it?

Is it selfish of a parent to force their child to learn how to read and to gain elementary literary skills such as comprehension of the English language?

Dubhghaillix

PDN wrote: »

Hmm, this leads us to another question, doesn't it?

Is it selfish of a parent to force their child to learn how to read and to gain elementary literary skills such as comprehension of the English language?

Yes, because Mandarin will be more important by the time they grow up.

Blank_

Joey the lips wrote: »

Really its a stupid question in this subject. Its no more extreme than forcing atheism...

Everybody is born atheist afaik :pac:
Parents want to teach their children what they think is good for them, I think its normal. It doesnt mean the kids will become religious after all, might even get them out of religion pretty fast is the parents are obsessed with it.

So I would say its ok to teach your kids what you want, as long as you don't force it and let them free to disagree.

philologos

Blank_ wrote: »

Everybody is born atheist afaik :pac:

I would say people are born agnostic. They haven't decided, they don't know much about anything in existence, let alone about what could have caused everything to be.

Atheism is a different kettle of fish to agnosticism.

Blank_

Jakkass wrote: »

I would say people are born agnostic. They haven't decided, they don't know much about anything in existence, let alone about what could have caused everything to be.

Atheism is a different kettle of fish to agnosticism.

True but non-belief doesnt require any "effort", when on the other hand you have to find which religion/deity, which branch, etc...

(Not sure how to phrase this, sorry English is not my first language )

Dades

Jakkass wrote: »

I would say people are born agnostic. They haven't decided, they don't know much about anything in existence, let alone about what could have caused everything to be.

Atheism is a different kettle of fish to agnosticism.

I'd go further and say they're neither. They're just kids.

Galvasean

I suppose it boils down to whether or not you class people without the ability to recognise or comprehend what a God is as atheists. Since an atheist is technically someone who doesn't believe in God, they probably are technically atheists, in the same way that rocks and trees are atheists.

Nick_oliveri

Jakkass wrote: »

Although, I think this isn't about forcing, it's about offering. Hypothetically, if I had children, I would of course want them to know about Jesus, because of what it has come to mean for me, and the greater implications of salvation. I would want my children to know God, and to love Him, and to grow each day in Him as I have.

That's selfish? Give me a break. That's the most compassionate thing I can do for anyone.

Offering my ass tbh. Its indoctrination and forced idealism. "I want my children to love god"..... "I would want my children to know God, and to love Him, and to grow each day in Him as I have".

There it is right there, you wont offer anything, you want them to do as you do. How can you offer them anything when you would refer to god as factual before they are even old enough to question anything. Hell, you would even baptise them before they could understand words. Is it all about what you want?

Would it not be enough to consider giving them their individuality and letting them decide for themselves at a reasonable age? Do you not think your god will love them anyways? Is that not enough?

Santa Claus/Tooth fairy just go to show how easy it is. I believe that we should encourage nothing only individualism, i.e the individual decides Her or His affiliations,ideals, sexual preference, morals and stances on their own. Out of the Jewish, moslem, christian, buddist etc. labels.

Yes, it is quite selfish.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

Is it selfish of a parent to force their child to learn how to read and to gain elementary literary skills such as comprehension of the English language?

No, because the parent is teaching something that is true (however one defines that for a language). Teaching a religion is effectively teaching a world-view, and in christianity's case, a pretty bizarre one.

Parents have a right to teach their kids, but they have a reciprocal responsibility not to abuse the trust that kids place in them by passing off fable as fact.

JimiTime

Both myself and Jackass have asked the following question, but it is mixed up in other posts we wrote. I think its a very good question for those who think a parent teaching a child a particular religion is wrong. here it goes:

Those who think teaching their children with relation to their religion is wrong, what do you propose be done? is it a case that you just want to talk about it, or are you looking to legislate or do something against it?
If so, what do you propose be done?

philologos

Galvasean wrote: »

I suppose it boils down to whether or not you class people without the ability to recognise or comprehend what a God is as atheists. Since an atheist is technically someone who doesn't believe in God, they probably are technically atheists, in the same way that rocks and trees are atheists.

Rocks, and trees, also have qualities that most atheists wouldn't take too kindly to.

Most notably that they lack any cognitive faculties to be able to reason.

Perhaps not the best analogy :pac:

I second JimiTimes question. What do you suggest be done? Should teaching children about faith be illegal?

iUseVi

Jakkass wrote: »

Rocks, and trees, also have qualities that most atheists wouldn't take too kindly to.

Most notably that they lack any cognitive faculties to be able to reason.

Perhaps not the best analogy :pac:

I second JimiTimes question. What do you suggest be done? Should teaching children about faith be illegal?

There's a difference between telling a child about Christianity and brainwashing. We don't like the brainwashing.

Tell your child what you believe, and that others believe other stuff. Is that so hard?

philologos

iUseVi wrote: »

There's a difference between telling a child about Christianity and brainwashing. We don't like the brainwashing.

Tell your child what you believe, and that others believe other stuff. Is that so hard?

It's not so hard. Christians don't regard all other beliefs as being equally valid. So of course I would put particular emphasis on the Gospel and on Christianity.

There appears to be a lack of understanding on the side of atheists, particularly robindch on where the Christian is coming on this one:

robindch wrote:

No, because the parent is teaching something that is true (however one defines that for a language). Teaching a religion is effectively teaching a world-view, and in christianity's case, a pretty bizarre one.

It never arose to robindch to think that Christians believe that the Gospel is true, in the same way as the English language is true and functional in conversing. In fact it isn't only as true, it is more true. It is the epitome of all truth.

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

So, if this is "wrong", how many of you support enforcing that parents shouldn't be allowed to share their faith with their children in law?

Parents can do plenty of things that are "wrong" but not illegal. It is not illegal to teach your children that the banking crisis was started by black people, or that homosexuals invented AIDS. Still not a particularly good idea either.

Far better to "whinge about it" as Jimi so inaccurately put it, than try and in act laws, because the purpose is to get the parents to realize it is a bad idea not simply make them stop.

Better parenting should be the goal, not legislation.

Dubhghaillix

Wicknight wrote: »

Far better to "whinge about it" as Jimi so inaccurately put it, than try and in act laws, because the purpose is to get the parents to realize it is a bad idea not simply make them stop.

That's pretty much all anyone can do. Any legislation that interferes with the autonomy of the marital family would be unconstitutional in Irish law. A change in the zeitgeist like what happened with smoking or drink driving is what's needed.

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

It never arose to robindch to think that Christians believe that the Gospel is true, in the same way as the English language is true and functional in conversing. In fact it isn't only as true, it is more true. It is the epitome of all truth.

Do you think it's ok for a parent to teach a child anything as long as the parent believes what they are saying to be true or do you think there are cases where even though the parent thinks something is the truth, you still don't like the idea of their children being taught that it is the truth?

iUseVi

Jakkass wrote: »

It never arose to robindch to think that Christians believe that the Gospel is true, in the same way as the English language is true and functional in conversing. In fact it isn't only as true, it is more true. It is the epitome of all truth.

I understand that you think its 100% true. But surely your faith is personal to you? I'm guessing that you came to accept Christianity over a period of time and because of a series of events. You cannot prove to your child that its 100% true anymore than you can prove that to us.

Not allowing a child to discover their world-view for themselves makes them into a Christian zombie. I've seen this happen, people brought up in this way don't question anything. More than 9 times out of 10 they stick 100% to what they were brought up us.

If you start teaching a specific world view when a child is small, this will be in no small way ingrained into them. This is of course how hundreds of religions all over the world still flourish. Religions are much more resilient than for example languages.

I'm sure you've heard the Jesuit quote "Give me the child until he is seven and I care not who has him thereafter." (There are variations on what the quote is.) This is horrific precisely because it is true. Children are sponges at a young age and their brains are still forming a stable pattern. So if you want to bring your child up as Christian there is a high probability you will succeed.

I think it boils down to whether you want your child to be a zombie clone of yourself or whether you want your child to have the privilege of making their own way in the world. Whether or not Christianity is true has no bearing on whether a child has been forced down a certain path, without the same freedom to choose. They should be taught how to think, not what to think.

Think about this: if Christianity really is true, then your child will be able to discover this truth for themselves. Don't you agree? If they cannot be a Christian unless it is hammered into them as a child, then it doesn't seem very likely that it is true.

philologos

Wicknight wrote: »

Better parenting should be the goal, not legislation.

And atheists are better parents than Christians? I find this interesting.

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

And atheists are better parents than Christians? I find this interesting.

Groan

Zombrex

Dubhghaillix wrote: »

That's pretty much all anyone can do. Any legislation that interferes with the autonomy of the marital family would be unconstitutional in Irish law. A change in the zeitgeist like what happened with smoking or drink driving is what's needed.

+1

Smoking is a very good example. You don't legislate that a parent cannot smoke around their child. That would simply be ignored. You try and get the parent to realize why smoking around their child may be harmful.

philologos

iUseVi wrote: »

I understand that you think its 100% true. But surely your faith is personal to you? I'm guessing that you came to accept Christianity over a period of time and because of a series of events. You cannot prove to your child that its 100% true anymore than you can prove that to us.

This is the "private matter" card. Christianity for me, is a part of my public identity. I would want to share my experiences of Christianity with any children I potentially have (too young still :pac:) because of how it has benefited my life. It's the best thing I could desire for anyone to have a full and living relationship with God.

Ultimately, it is up to any thinking individual to decide if this is a good enough case. This includes any children with Christian parents.

iUseVi wrote: »

Not allowing a child to discover their world-view for themselves makes them into a Christian zombie. I've seen this happen, people brought up in this way don't question anything. More than 9 times out of 10 they stick 100% to what they were brought up us.

Teaching about Christianity at home doesn't allow a child to discover their own world view?

This is based on the assumption that children automatically believe the same thing as their parents do. This isn't exactly true. I personally share disagreements with family members about Christianity, how I regard certain aspects of it, amongst other things. So, yes I am a Christian, but I have discovered this through my own reasoning for the most part, rather than what I learned as a child.

iUseVi wrote: »

If you start teaching a specific world view when a child is small, this will be in no small way ingrained into them. This is of course how hundreds of religions all over the world still flourish. Religions are much more resilient than for example languages.

I don't know where you are getting the notion that teaching about Christianity deprives the child of thought. It is the responsibility of the parent to teach a child about how best it is to act in the world. Christianity provides a solid basis for moral and ethical behaviour.

As for what children decide to do in later life, that is up to them.

iUseVi wrote: »

I'm sure you've heard the Jesuit quote "Give me the child until he is seven and I care not who has him thereafter." (There are variations on what the quote is.) This is horrific precisely because it is true. Children are sponges at a young age and their brains are still forming a stable pattern. So if you want to bring your child up as Christian there is a high probability you will succeed.

What's wrong with someone becoming / remaining Christian? I believe thoughtful and questioning Christianity should be encouraged rather than unquestioning faith.

Thankfully, this type of Christianity seems to be becoming more prevalent. Engaging with peoples minds more seriously rather than telling them just believe, people are starting to say, this is why I believe this to be reasonable.

iUseVi wrote: »

I think it boils down to whether you want your child to be a zombie clone of yourself or whether you want your child to have the privilege of making their own way in the world. Whether or not Christianity is true has no bearing on whether a child has been forced down a certain path, without the same freedom to choose. They should be taught how to think, not what to think.

Not at all.

iUseVi wrote: »

Think about this: if Christianity really is true, then your child will be able to discover this truth for themselves. Don't you agree? If they cannot be a Christian unless it is hammered into them as a child, then it doesn't seem very likely that it is true.

How will they discover this truth for themselves if the wishes of the people on this forum are fulfilled.

If Christianity is a private matter, and if nobody speaks about it in public, or at home, it won't be found and it won't be learned. I hate this idea of peoples faiths being regarded as merely something "private". Faith is never intended to be something private, but something that informs every day behaviour. I don't consider hate a strong word in this case.

Wicknight: You brought up the "better parenting" case, and that regarding Christianity as something to be shared in the family context as being "bad parenting". So the logical conclusion is that atheists who don't do either, are better parents.

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

This is the "private matter" card. Christianity for me, is a part of my public identity. I would want to share my experiences of Christianity with any children I potentially have (too young still :pac:) because of how it has benefited my life. It's the best thing I could desire for anyone to have a full and living relationship with God.

Ultimately, it is up to any thinking individual to decide if this is a good enough case. This includes any children with Christian parents.

You are ignoring though that children have an instinctive tendency to accept what they are told by their parents because they are told it by their parents.

So they won't "decide it this is a good enough case" if you simply tell them it is true. They will simply accept that it is true. That is actually a good thing in many ways, it allows parents to very quickly instill basic sense of things in a child, such a the main road is dangerous, don't steal your brothers ice cream, listen to your father etc etc

But parents shouldn't take advantage of this bond between parent and child to instill all the parents beliefs in the children. It is up to the parent to mindful of what they are teaching their children and when they are teaching them.

If you genuinely care about your children deciding for themselves about Christianity you should be mindful of this as well.

meditraitor

It begs the question, Would some of the more Vocal A&A posters be willing to give their own children an education in religion without forcing their opinion on the child?

See I dont think so and this brings us back to the main point which in my opinion is either ignorant or arrogant in the extreme.

Only a person who has no kids could come up with a crazy idea of not forcing your beliefs on the child, its human nature and therefore will happen!

BTW I do not subscribe to any religion....... I do however think that people who over emphasise or spend their life preaching their lack of beliefs are wasting to much time in what is a short life...... I even think my replying to this post is a waste but this thread is annoying me.

philologos

Wicknight wrote: »

You are ignoring though that children have an instinctive tendency to accept what they are told by their parents because they are told it by their parents.

I'm actually questioning this assumption that you have. Why aren't you still Christian, if this is true?

Wicknight wrote: »

So they won't "decide it this is a good enough case" if you simply tell them it is true. They will simply accept that it is true. That is actually a good thing in many ways, it allows parents to very quickly instill basic sense of things in a child, such a the main road is dangerous, don't steal your brothers ice cream, listen to your father etc etc

There is a time, when kids become adults, and in that frame of time end up thinking about whether or not belief or unbelief is a reasonable position to hold. I ended up wrestling with this myself as a teenager. I eventually after several years came to the conclusion that God does exist, and indeed it is by far the most reasonable conclusion to hold.

Wicknight wrote: »

But parents shouldn't take advantage of this bond between parent and child to instill all the parents beliefs in the children. It is up to the parent to mindful of what they are teaching their children and when they are teaching them.

It isn't "taking advantage". It bears no advantage to them to give their child a real relationship with God. That's why I question the whole notion of it being selfish. People don't share the Gospel with others for their own benefit, but rather for the benefit of others.

I'm quite sure those who do teach their children about Christianity are mindful of what they are doing, and are not only mindful, but do so out of a belief that they are offering their child an invaluable opportunity to know their God as they have.

Wicknight wrote: »

If you genuinely care about your children deciding for themselves about Christianity you should be mindful of this as well.

If I had children, and it's not just in the case of children. I care for people in general, coming to know their God in a full, meaningful and thoughtful manner.

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

Parents can do plenty of things that are "wrong" but not illegal. It is not illegal to teach your children that the banking crisis was started by black people, or that homosexuals invented AIDS. Still not a particularly good idea either.

thats not the question though. The question was would you like something to be done?

Far better to "whinge about it" as Jimi so inaccurately put it,

Indeed I did, so apologies for that. Using 'whinge' was rather contentious of me. 'Venting frustrations about' would probably have been better. I did use a bit more decorum when I reposted the question though. Forgive?:)

than try and in act laws, because the purpose is to get the parents to realize it is a bad idea not simply make them stop.

Better parenting should be the goal, not legislation.

I don't have issue with people discussing it, but some use such pejorative terms etc about it, I find it hard to believe that they'd stop there. At the end of the day, if you 'truly' believe that me teaching my child Christianity constitutes 'child abuse', then why wouldn't you look to stop it?

iUseVi

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm actually questioning this assumption that you have. Why aren't you still Christian, if this is true?


There is a time, when kids become adults, and in that frame of time end up thinking about whether or not belief or unbelief is a reasonable position to hold. I ended up wrestling with this myself as a teenager. I eventually after several years came to the conclusion that God does exist, and indeed it is by far the most reasonable conclusion to hold.

I'm just answering in between jobs, so forgive me please if I pick and choose points a bit.

The point I was trying to make is that if children are exposed predominantly to a single position, most of them will remain in that position. Their brain patterns will be trained a certain way. This is not to say that they don't have doubts, but that they are much less likely to form a different position. Now there are exceptions to this rule, myself being one of them. But the huge majority of my Christian childhood friends are still Christian. And still the same denomination of Christianity.

If we had grown up in an Islamic state....well you know.

Sam Vimes

meditraitor wrote: »

It begs the question, Would some of the more Vocal A&A posters be willing to give their own children an education in religion without forcing their opinion on the child?

See I dont think so and this brings us back to the main point which in my opinion is either ignorant or arrogant in the extreme.

I'd have no problem with my child learning about any religion. Religion is a big part of our history so you can't just airbrush it out. I'd want my child to learn about all the major religions, just not that one is true and the rest are false

ColmDawson

meditraitor wrote: »

Would some of the more Vocal A&A posters be willing to give their own children an education in religion without forcing their opinion on the child?

Definitely. Religious culture is a huge part of human history and by learning about it, people can make educated choices. Don't forget that many A&A posters are deeply interested in theology.

Sam Vimes

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't have issue with people discussing it, but some use such pejorative terms etc about it, I find it hard to believe that they'd stop there. At the end of the day, if you 'truly' believe that me teaching my child Christianity constitutes 'child abuse', then why wouldn't you look to stop it?

Surely you believe that anyone teaching their child that any religion but christianity is true (or that no religion is true) is the worst form of child abuse possible because they are drastically increasing the possibility that their child will go to hell. Their child must have the strength of will to reject the religion of their parents and peers and accept christianity instead and we both know that that doesn't happen in >95% of cases. Why don't you look to legislate to stop this?

iUseVi

meditraitor wrote: »

It begs the question, Would some of the more Vocal A&A posters be willing to give their own children an education in religion without forcing their opinion on the child?

I'd want religions taught in a similar way to Greek mythologies. And I'd say some people still believe in these myths now, and that different people believe different things. Oh and that some believe none. :P

axer

ColmDawson wrote: »

Definitely. Religious culture is a huge part of human history and by learning about it, people can make educated choices. Don't forget that many A&A posters are deeply interested in theology.

I would echo this. I will teach any future children I have all the different religions and what people believe and what they don't believe. I would have no reason to indoctrinate my children in any particular way of thinking as I would want them to be open minded and tolerant to all ideas. To tell my children there is no god would be akin to telling them that there is - just as bad. If they want to join a particular religion I would support them (except if the religion is a dangerous type of cult that encourages them to block out non believers from their lives).

meditraitor and the other religious people, the question is would you?

meditraitor

ColmDawson wrote: »

Definitely. Religious culture is a huge part of human history and by learning about it, people can make educated choices. Don't forget that many A&A posters are deeply interested in theology.

Theology is neither here nor there, the thread is advocating non indoctrination of children by parents and you think that just because an agnostic has a theology degree they would not influence the child?

Human psycology would say different, a more scientific sciense than theology,

The compulsion to teach a child your own beliefs far outweighs any study you can or will do!

A&A patrons for the whole have very firm beliefs, more so even than the christianity forums, you must see that they will force these beliefs on their offspring! And denying this would only prove that practising A&A is not good for the old common sense, nearly- or more than that God crowd

ColmDawson

meditraitor wrote: »

Theology is neither here nor there, the thread is advocating non indoctrination of children by parents and you think that just because an agnostic has a theology degree they would not influence the child?

Human psycology would say different, a more scientific sciense than theology,

The compulsion to teach a child your own beliefs far outweighs any study you can or will do!

A&A patrons for the whole have very firm beliefs, more so even than the christianity forums, you must see that they will force these beliefs on their offspring! And denying this would only prove that practising A&A is not good for the old common sense, nearly- or more than that God crowd

I've answered your question. No more food for you.

Zombrex

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm actually questioning this assumption that you have. Why aren't you still Christian, if this is true?

Are you seriously questioning that children accept what they are told by their parents? Did you figure out for yourself that the road is dangerous and that you shouldn't drink drain cleaner?

Jakkass wrote: »

There is a time, when kids become adults, and in that frame of time end up thinking about whether or not belief or unbelief is a reasonable position to hold. I ended up wrestling with this myself as a teenager. I eventually after several years came to the conclusion that God does exist, and indeed it is by far the most reasonable conclusion to hold.

Ok, so if this is something a person should only tackle when a teenager or adult, what is the purpose of telling your kids about Christianity?

This is the contradiction here. You are saying you are going to teach your kids Christianity and then let them make their own mind up. But if that is the case why not simply not teach them Christianity and let them make their own mind up with then get older?

Jakkass wrote: »

It isn't "taking advantage". It bears no advantage to them to give their child a real relationship with God.

Of course it does. Parents worry about their children not becoming the same religion as them because they associate so much of good with religious membership.

By instilling in them very young the parents religion they greatly increase the odds that they will become the same religion as them.

Which of course contradicts the notion that they want them to discover it themselves when they get older, which to be honest I think is a hallow claim.

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm quite sure those who do teach their children about Christianity are mindful of what they are doing, and are not only mindful, but do so out of a belief that they are offering their child an invaluable opportunity to know their God as they have.

You are quite sure of this based on what exactly? That they are Christians and all Christians are good people/parents?

Jakkass wrote: »

If I had children, and it's not just in the case of children. I care for people in general, coming to know their God in a full, meaningful and thoughtful manner.

Which should mean you shouldn't want to take advantage of innate biological forms of implanting knowledge in my head.

For example I'm sure you would agree that it would be pointless to the goals of Christianity to teach me about God while I'm under the effects of a suggestion drug. I would end up accepting what you say without rationally accepting what you say.

Same thing applies with children. Children accept what they are told by their parents without rationally determining what they are told.

It is wrong to use that biological relationship to instill religious beliefs in your children if you believe that it is important that they do in fact figure it out for themselves.

axer

meditraitor wrote: »

A&A patrons for the whole have very firm beliefs, more so even than the christianity forums, you must see that they will force these beliefs on their offspring! And denying this would only prove that practising A&A is not good for the old common sense, nearly- or more than that God crowd

I will never say to my child there is no god whereas a christian will say categorically that there is a god. See the difference?

Joey the lips

axer wrote: »

I will never say to my child there is no god whereas a christian will say categorically that there is a god. See the difference?

Thats aside the point... You tell a child the fire is hot but they only know when they get burnt... In otherwords either is indifferent... The child decided one day if what you said is right or wrong... They rearly these days follow the flock so to speak...

I still maintain its harmless to educate your child with religion... If they join another denomination later are they truly daft or have they become truly inspired... ie they have done more than made up there mind they have ultimatly considered there original faith to be wrong...?

Mark Hamill

meditraitor wrote: »

The compulsion to teach a child your own beliefs far outweighs any study you can or will do!

It is possible to teach a child your beliefs without telling them what to believe. Its the difference between "this is what I believe, make up your own mind" and "this is what you will believe, dont question me".

ColmDawson

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thats aside the point... You tell a child the fire is hot but they only know when they get burnt... In otherwords either is indifferent... The child decided one day if what you said is right or wrong... They rearly these days follow the flock so to speak...

And what about the story of Santa Claus?

magicbastarder

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

i didn't make it very far into the thread, so i may be covering ground already covered, but this stood out for me. completely and utterly ludicrous.

of course parents are going to bring their kids up in their religion. to suggest that they shouldn't is so insane, in the words of pauli, it's not even wrong.