Is the standard of the EPL in serious decline?

Hank Scorpio

My main question is, Is the EPL going to sink to the likes on Italy and Germany in next few years standard wise?

Just been thinking about this lately and a few factors that spring to mind.

The amount of games lost by the top clubs in the EPL this season yet there is still a 3 way title race.

Liverpool having there worst season in years and about to miss out on CL football next season; No more "Big 4"

All 4 CL qualifiers failing to make the European semis for the first time since 2003(might be 2004 not 100%).

High taxes on wages dis-encouraging high profile players to join english clubs.

The leaving of what were called "EPL" top players to play in Italy and Spain.

The ageing squads of Man UTD and Chelsea and apparent lack of funds/debts making the acquisition of good players impossible for many clubs.

Imo the domination of the past few seasons by English teams is truly over and the power now lies in Spain

gimmick

^ Yet Spain only have one team in the semis, and only one also in the quaters.

The panic button is being pressed all too quickly.

Chardee MacDennis

across all 20 clubs it is much strong than La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga...

M5

Nope, these things go in cycles, a few years ago there were 3 teams from England in the Semi Final of the CL!!!!

That was a bad thing for football. Competition is what makes it interesting.

Ush1

BastardPrince wrote: »

across all 20 clubs it is much strong than La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga...

Strongly disagree.

Pepe LeFrits

German football is resurgent while the PL has dropped off a little financially. I wouldn't say there's been a huge shift but it's probably fair to say we won't see as many PL teams in the CL semis in the future.

Morzadec

The strength of the League as a whole is still very good though. Just look at average EPL teams like Fulham getting to the latter stages of the Europa League against top teams from Portugal, Germany, Spain etc...

The quality of the Big Four has probably declined, but I think for now the English league should be considered up there with Spain, rather than on the level of Germany. Next years CL will say a lot about whether this was just a temporary blip for the top English teams in the CL.

I for one would be surprised if we saw no English teams in the semis of next years Champions League.

So, to directly answer to your question, I would say sort of, but not drastically so - ask again this time next year and we will have more information to make a better judgment, but for now I think the EPL is a stronger League than all those except perhaps Spain.

JimsAlterEgo

another person needing to understand what "decline" means

come back to us in 3 or 4 years if what happended this year is consistent

peabutler

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2010/04/man_utd_fall_as_e.html


Article by BBC Chief Football writer about the Decline? I suppose he should come back in 3 or 4 years aswell.

Paleface

I think while the standard of football has not declined the spending power has most definitely.

City will be probably be the only English club throwing money around in the summer.

CR 7

I think I already know who will have the most posts here.:D

No, it ain't in decline, if United had gone through last night, this thread would not exist.

redout

The amount od ridiculous threads gone up over the past 18hrs makes one wonder do some posters on here really have a fcukin notion!

Aidric

Morzadec wrote: »

Just look at average EPL teams like Fulham getting to the latter stages of the Europa League

..And Liverpool.

V9

I knew this would happen.

For goodness sake its just a blip. The English League is still probably the strongest in Europe and will continue to be so for a number of years to come.

Silly, silly over reactions. I blame the media.

cson

Is that the excuse now for Liverpool/Chelsea/Manchester United/Arsenal fans?

Decline should really be measured in the medium to long term, not by a reactionary thread to all of the English clubs being knocked out before the Semi Finals of the Champions League.

cson

Aidric wrote: »

..And Liverpool.

Look up average while you're at it.

More of this trying to provoke a reaction ****e.

speedboatchase

After 24 votes, 100% no

Thread fail

Ush1

Real question is, was it ever that good apart from the top four?

Those using the CL as a gauge, the Uefa Cup doesn't back up their theory of English dominance.

peabutler

Hey,Hey

Although I don't think the EPL is in serious decline I do think ti is in a small decline. This coincides with two of the top sides squads (Man U and Chelsea) are older and not amazingly strong anymore. I can't see either squad winning a CL without some improvement where as last year and the years before I could, so yes it's in a decline but a very small one and one that can be halted with 4 or 5 top signings between the two.

Chardee MacDennis

Ush1 wrote: »

Strongly disagree.

why is that now?

Ush1

BastardPrince wrote: »

why is that now?

See post #18.

dfx-

Tottenham 9-1 Wigan
Chelsea 7-1 Villa
Hull 1-5 Spurs
Burnley 1-6 Citeh
Bolton 0-4 Utd
Liverpool 6-1 Hull
Spurs 5-0 Burnley
Everton 5-1 Hull
Everton 1-6 Arsenal

So yeah I'd strongly agree with Ush1 too..

keane2097

dfx- wrote: »

T
Everton 5-1 Hull
Everton 1-6 Arsenal

So yeah I'd strongly agree with Ush1 too..

Arsenal beat Hull 2-1 with a late goal a couple of weeks ago.

What point are you making with these scorelines?

cson

Ush1 wrote: »

Real question is, was it ever that good apart from the top four?

Those using the CL as a gauge, the Uefa Cup doesn't back up their theory of English dominance.

English clubs have done alright in it all the same. Middlesbrough of all clubs got to the final a few years ago where they were beaten by Ramos' Sevilla who were arguably at their peak. Sevilla are a Champions League side by all accounts.

Villa should have done better in it last season but O'Neill prioritised the League and their small squad didn't help matters much either. To add to this the usual top 4 rarely figured in it until Liverpool this season as in the past few years all of them have been making the Champions League knockout phases. I'm not going to go through the facts of it but off the top of my head the last few UEFA Cups have been won by teams that would be considered Champions League standard [Sevilla] the Champions of decent leagues [Shaktar]. The teams left in it are of good standard and which many would consider to be Champions League certainties 4 years out of 5.

Ush1

keane2097 wrote: »

Arsenal beat Hull 2-1 with a late goal a couple of weeks ago.

What point are you making with these scorelines?

That four teams don't make a league.

Ush1

cson wrote: »

English clubs have done alright in it all the same. Middlesbrough of all clubs got to the final a few years ago where they were beaten by Ramos' Sevilla who were arguably at their peak. Sevilla are a Champions League side by all accounts.

Villa should have done better in it last season but O'Neill prioritised the League and their small squad didn't help matters much either. To add to this the usual top 4 rarely figured in it until Liverpool this season as in the past few years all of them have been making the Champions League knockout phases. I'm not going to go through the facts of it but off the top of my head the last few UEFA Cups have been won by teams that would be considered Champions League standard [Sevilla] the Champions of decent leagues [Shaktar]. The teams left in it are of good standard and which many would consider to be Champions League certainties 4 years out of 5.

I'm not sure what you mean by a CL team. Alot of EPL nut huggers simply believe 4 teams make a league. The top four in England are fairly strong indeed. The other 16 teams however aren't at all and are reguarly beaten, often easily in the Uefa cup. So to say the English league is dominant is inaccurate. You could pick 6 very decent sides from Spain apart from Real and Barca.

The English top four are strong but that's about it.

evil_seed

it's looking like something that could happen. This will be due to the massive rise in taxes that players will have to pay on their massive wages. it's always about the money. when the money isn't as enticing the better players will be heading to italy/spain/germany.

Catenaccio!

Germany is going to be the big league in years to come. The money will go there.

keane2097

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Germany is going to be the big league in years to come. The money will go there.

What are you basing that on?

cson

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by a CL team. Alot of EPL nut huggers simply believe 4 teams make a league. The top four in England are fairly strong indeed. The other 16 teams however aren't at all and are reguarly beaten, often easily in the Uefa cup. So to say the English league is dominant is inaccurate. You could pick 6 very decent sides from Spain apart from Real and Barca.

The English top four are strong but that's about it.

England
Chelsea
Manchester United
Arsenal
Liverpool
Manchester City
Tottenham Hotspur
Everton
Aston Villa

Spain
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Mallorca
Valencia
Atletico
Sevilla
Villareal

Both leagues equivilant top 6/7 iirc in the past 5 or so years. Count up the number of participants from each at the semi final stages of both European competitions and I'd imagine it's broadly similar. You're argument simply doesn't exist though it is convienent for you.

Ush1

cson wrote: »

England
Chelsea
Manchester United
Arsenal
Liverpool
Manchester City
Tottenham Hotspur
Everton
Aston Villa

Spain
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Mallorca
Valencia
Atletico
Sevilla
Villareal

Both leagues equivilant top 6/7 iirc in the past 5 or so years. Count up the number of participants from each at the semi final stages of both European competitions and I'd imagine it's broadly similar. You're argument simply doesn't exist though it is convienent for you.

Sorry, how does my arguement not exist? The argument is about English dominance. The clearly don't dominant the Uefa cup tournament, aside from comparing them to Spain.

But since you're interested. In the past 2 years, teams from neither Spain or England featured in the final 4 of the Uefa cup.
'07, 3 teams from Spain, 0 from England.
'06, 1 team from each.
'05, 0 each.
'04, 1 team from England and 2 from Spain.

Where is the English dominating?

Sir Gallagher

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Germany is going to be the big league in years to come. The money will go there.

Where are you getting this from? I reckon you just posted this to make it look like you're "in the know" :rolleyes:

Jazzy

lol no

Chardee MacDennis

Ush1 wrote: »

See post #18.

so your argument is dont use the cl use the europa league, surely if you see a flaw in the logic of one there is a flaw in the logic of the other...

Ush1

BastardPrince wrote: »

so your argument is dont use the cl use the europa league, surely if you see a flaw in the logic of one there is a flaw in the logic of the other...

Read my original post. My question is was it ever that great to begin with apart from the top four? This thread was clearly created as a reaction to no EPL team in the CL semi-finals, if there was no EPL team in the Uefa Cup semi-finals, nobody cares and they would still say England is the strongest because of the CL.

The CL is only measuring the top four in England, constantly the same top four who are indeed strong. It's not measuring the other 16 so to say it's the best league is misleading imo.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Chardee MacDennis

dfx- wrote: »

Tottenham 9-1 Wigan
Chelsea 7-1 Villa
Hull 1-5 Spurs
Burnley 1-6 Citeh
Bolton 0-4 Utd
Liverpool 6-1 Hull
Spurs 5-0 Burnley
Everton 5-1 Hull
Everton 1-6 Arsenal

So yeah I'd strongly agree with Ush1 too..

lol those results happen in la liga too

Barcelona 5 - 2 Atlético Madrid
Barcelona 6 - 1 Real Zaragoza
Tenerife 0 - 5 Barcelona
Barcelona 4 - 0 Sevilla FC
Barcelona 4 - 0 Racing Santander

Real Madrid 5 - 0 Xerez
Real Madrid 6 - 0 Real Zaragoza
Tenerife 1 - 5 Real Madrid

havent looked through the rest of the teams though...

Spiritoftheseventies

Lets look at it. Arsenal got Barca in quarter finals. Chelsea got Inter in last sixteen. United in all honesty should have beaten Bayern over the two legs but conceded some sloppy goals. Liverpool are having a season horribulus So know wouldnt place too much emphasis on how english teams fared in Champions league.
Re finances there is a world wide recession going on. So clubs everywhere are going to struggle.

Bodhisopha

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

Lets look at it. Arsenal got Barca in quarter finals. Chelsea got Inter in last sixteen. United in all honesty should have beaten Bayern over the two legs but conceded some sloppy goals. Liverpool are having a season horribulus So know wouldnt place too much emphasis on how english teams fared in Champions league.
Re finances there is a world wide recession going on. So clubs everywhere are going to struggle.

Disagree, Bayern would've comfortably beaten United but conceded some sloppy goals.

Spiritoftheseventies

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Disagree, Bayern would've comfortably beaten United but conceded some sloppy goals.

Yes but Nanis first goal was particulary bad but think for United to concede so late on in first half was poor in second leg
Cant see Bayern winning champions league on strength of that display

JPA

keane2097 wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? I reckon you just posted this to make it look like you're "in the know" :rolleyes:

If UEFA bring in the new stringent financial rules then German clubs are the ones which are best placed to benefit as they are already the best run clubs in Europe.

v3ttel

JPA wrote: »

If UEFA bring in the new stringent financial rules then German clubs are the ones which are best placed to benefit as they are already the best run clubs in Europe.

Typical Germans.....

Efficient bastards :pac:

civis_liberalis

kinaldo

Newky will bring the standard back up next season.

Helix

the standard of the premiership has been slipping for a long time, i dont think european performance bears any relevance to that though

Helix

Iolar wrote: »

Dont worry folks in the coming years you will see the re-emergence of Russian,Ukranian teams:D

fairly sure this will be the case

the russians will be big players in years to come

Paparazzo

nuxxx wrote: »

Is the standard of the EPL in serious decline?

Eamonn? Is that you?

Morzadec

Fulham (12th in the Premiership) beating the Bundesliga champions in their own turf at half-time puts this argument in perspective I think.

Could you imagine the likes of Hoffenheim beating Chelsea or United?

kinaldo

Morzadec wrote: »

Fulham (12th in the Premiership) beating the Bundesliga champions in their own turf at half-time puts this argument in perspective I think.

Could you imagine the likes of Hoffenheim beating Chelsea or United?

Look where they are in the league... 9th. Hardly comparable to Manchester or Chelsea.

Kinda like Blackburn in Europe after they won the Premiership.

Morzadec

kinaldo wrote: »

Look where they are in the league... 9th. Hardly comparable to Manchester or Chelsea.

Kinda like Blackburn in Europe after they won the Premiership.

And Blackburn won the Premier League when it was very weak compared to now

The point still stands that if a team like Wolfsburg was capable of winning the Bundesliga it says a lot about the quality of the German League.

kinaldo

Morzadec wrote: »

And Blackburn won the Premier League when it was very weak compared to now

The point still stands that if a team like Wolfsburg was capable of winning the Bundesliga it says a lot about the quality of the German League.

Wolfsburg this season are clearly not the side they were last season, so the point is moot.