Gaelforce West 21/8/10

watergal

seanie500 wrote: »

you might be in for a surprise with the new cycling section leading up to C.P.!

drove the route on monday in a transit and its pretty bad to be honest

wouldnt put my bike through that twice!

ok you can avoid the potholes but you will need to be v careful to avoid a puncture here. there's a tough hill on it as well

I think I'm going to be running a lot more in this race that I first thought !
Haven't practised running with bike yet..

yop

seanie500 wrote: »

you might be in for a surprise with the new cycling section leading up to C.P.!

drove the route on monday in a transit and its pretty bad to be honest

wouldnt put my bike through that twice!

ok you can avoid the potholes but you will need to be v careful to avoid a puncture here. there's a tough hill on it as well

`

A good number of us on here have cycled that leg and haven't found it that bad to be honest, I don't think any of us have puncture on it either. Its a bog road fair enough, but there is a good few 100m of it which is tarmac.

All of it is well well cycleable, maybe the last hill you might need to walk it at the very peak of it but its well fit to cycle on.

Orion

Wonkagirl wrote: »

i dont think so- this eejit isnt really a boards type (too cool)- plus, i think the 7.30 bus is the 6th wave, no? 5, 5.30, 6, 6.30... i'm on the 6.30 bus. Bloody early start, we'll need to be up by 5 bells!

6:30 wave here too. We'll have to get the driver to ask all boardsies to stand up

snailsong

CKWPORT wrote: »

I know what ya mean!

I did 3 weeks ago in 30mins from reek base to the quay, had 60k behind me and was totally shattered....cycled down skelp no problem.

Did it again on Saturday and punctured twice in 5 mins....it has gotten a lot worse though, been a good bit of rain here, and it has made the offroad sections a lot worse. Its still doable on the bike, lad that was with me got over it fine that day, there is a lot of luck involved cycling over that section. I might throw the bike on my shoulder and jog it at the cost of a five minutes on the day, cycling it by far quicker, but the risk of the puncture is very high.

Cycled to the reek today, up and down and over Skelp home. Base station to the Quay was about 32 mins (obv no 300m run included). I'm not fast and I wasn't pushing it. My wrists were sore from squeezing the brakes by the time i hit the coast road. Almost spilled it twice on Skelp. I reckon if you hit a certain speed you won't have enough grip to slow down until... That speed is as low as 12kph in some steep bits in the wet. That said I left the base station in the company of a few fast guys and they were soon out of sight on skelp.
You might do it in 20 if you were prepared to risk life and limb.

FWIW I took 1.58 for the whole route, mountain and cycle. Ran very little of it. Saw about a dozen GFers (the gear marks them out) and spoke with a few. Makes the race seem very close.

snailsong

Wonkagirl wrote: »

cool, tks.. i will definitely be jogging the skelp bit. the extra bit gained by cycling it unscathed is not worth the risk.. jog with bike might lose you 2 minutes, but cycling it and getting a blow out and youre down 15 mins. Even on a hybrid last yr it was treacherous. good to hear the other bit isnt as bad.

After 5 hours or whatever I can't imagine jogging with a bike being so easy. I did it twice on a road bike and regular tyres. I'll get some Armadillos shortly and The chance of a puncture will be low I reckon. It's just a matter of technique to avoid a few dodgy spots and keep the vitesse under control.

helimachoptor

snailsong wrote: »

FWIW I took 1.58 for the whole route, mountain and cycle. Ran very little of it. Saw about a dozen GFers (the gear marks them out) and spoke with a few. Makes the race seem very close.

to get up CP and the last cycle into Westport?

Wonkagirl

helimachoptor wrote: »

to get up CP and the last cycle into Westport?

1.58 is about right i'd say, for a 5.5-6.5 hourer.. i did both in pretty much the same last yr

Did a bit of offroad on the bike last nite in the Gatorskins.. not as bad as i anticipated- more grip than i expected.

Definitely jogging the skelp bit though, it's just not worth it. Watergal, do practice joggging with the bike- it's a doddle to be honest... although NOTHING is a doddle when you've 5 hours of slog behind you:)

Already looking fwd to the first glass of cold white wine that evening.. i jsut hope i'll be able for it this yr- was in such a heap last yr that my body rejected alcohol- disaster.com!

Mr Freeze

Did ye all see the email re the route change for the 1st run?

For an average runner it will increase your over time by 11 minutes.

Looking at the map, I ran that route last year, its a good bit longer alrite, we were doing a bit of recon last year and went wrong and ran that, adds a fair bit.

As I shave time off each section in training, they seem to be adding it back on via route changes this year.

Its beyond their control, so not giving out about it.

Wonkagirl

yeah just saw the mail. looks like it'll cut out that horrible hilly part, so i'm happy out to be honest.

i assume it's weather related- that hill was in sh&te last yr, people were skidding all over the place

it's adding 1.9km.. sure that's only just over a mile. let there be no panic.

i do think they should cut a bit off the end but i suppose that'd be a logistical nitemare!

between that, and the new cycle route- there's no way i'll be shaving the hour off last yrs time as expected.. ah well

Wonkagirl

between that and the new cycle bit, theres no way i'm on target to go from 6'20 to 5'30:mad:

only good thing is it cuts out the horrible hilly part.. I assume that's in **** after the recent weather and that's the logic?

cant get into gmail at the mo so havent seen the mail, but i believe it adds 1.9km? sure that's just over a mile..

spurscormac

I think I'm just gonna have to find an evening to head out there and check it out for myself.

Also liking the 250ml bottle idea from a couple of pages back - easy to carry in your hand and refill @ the kayak stop.

Will just combine all the thoughts on here to come up with my own strategy - though studying the map to get the food in ahead of the tough sections is a great idea.

spurscormac

CKWPORT wrote: »

Did ye all see the email re the route change for the 1st run?



Looking at the map, I ran that route last year, its a good bit longer alrite, we were doing a bit of recon last year and went wrong and ran that, adds a fair bit.

As I shave time off each section in training, they seem to be adding it back on via route changes this year.

Its beyond their control, so not giving out about it.

So its gonna be a 13.9k run to the kayaks - hmmmm, looks like I'll have to take water with me from the start, whether I leave the camelbak at he bike or not.

watergal

spurscormac wrote: »

So its gonna be a 13.9k run to the kayaks - hmmmm, looks like I'll have to take water with me from the start, whether I leave the camelbak at he bike or not.

I'll be happy to land at the finish with my two legs still attached to my body:P

nerraw1111

Went to the talk last night. Very informative evening and the speakers were great and refreshingly down to earth.

Was surprised at the high turnout. Interesting to hear other racers questions and the different concerns they have. I don't want to risk repeating their advice lest I misquote them but i think watergal covered the basics.

The diarolyte tip is a pretty good one for cramp and there was a suggestion that there is an over reliance on gels. Eoin Keith's advice by racing intelligently could save you a lot of time.

Really enjoyed Avril Copeland's talk on multiday races. Very inspirational.

The Base Camp shop looks really good too, some top gear in there and the space they have for the talks is great, so hopefully it'll be the first of many talks there.

Great evening and rather than gear being pushed on, they gave away some great kit. A guy from innov 8 shoes there, very helpful and informative.

Pity to see the route changed. I really enjoyed that hill. I want it tough!

nerraw1111

Re the last leg. My cycle last year was shockingly bad but managed to do the last leg in 33 mins.

I finished 700 odd or so overall.

But I did fling myself down the dirt trail and didn't get off the bike once. It was a risk but I reckon I gained about ten minutes on most people and was up there with some of the elites in terms of time on that leg.

Just highlights how much time you can shave off my taking some risks.

There are a couple of guys in the top 100 or so, who completed the leg to CP, 40 odd minutes quicker than me. But I did the last leg 10 minutes quicker than some of them.

I'm guessing they either had cycling shoes on and was really careful going through the last cycle section.

Wonkagirl

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Eoin Keith's advice by racing intelligently could save you a lot of time.

The Base Camp shop looks really good too, some top gear in there and the space they have for the talks is great, so hopefully it'll be the first of many talks there.

Great evening and rather than gear being pushed on, they gave away some great kit. A guy from innov 8 shoes there, very helpful and informative.

Pity to see the route changed. I really enjoyed that hill. I want it tough!

A few words on eoin keith's 'racing intelligently'- if you have time.. cheers

where exactly is the store- is it opposite the back of arnotts? need to get some new gear this wend. really need a superthin warm layer for the CP climb, was cold and MISERABLE doing that last yr, wont be risking that again this yr, i was semi-hypothermic i'd say- and at that, i had a north face rain jacket on and a buff around my neck. i'm sure the lack of food and exhaustion wasnt helping, but an extra layer is essential this yr.

Mr Freeze

A gilet and arm warmers is what I am gonna get for the reek, extremely compact and will squeeze into a bag or back pockets of jerseys easier than an extra layer.

Will pop up on if cold on the reek climb, no doubt I will have them on! Along with a buff and skull cap.

ThisRegard

One piece of advice I picked up is to wear a long sleeved top with a zip of some form, that way you can zip yourself up when cool or roll the sleeves up and zip down when warm. I have a decent light rain proof cycling jacket that I'm bringing with me anyway, that will be my fallback if I do get cold, and it will be worn on the kayaks unless it's a scorcher.

2 Wheels Good

Saw the mail this morning, recovering from a foot injury so not what I wanted to see!
Saw the hill as a leveler for myself. My running partner having his appendix out Tuesday hasn't helped either!
My 2 cents from my experiences last year.
Don't do gels or anything if you're not used to them. Jelly beans are a good quick boost. Bring a treat for CP, mars bar or similar tape it to the bike.
Probably using this Camelbak Octane for my bag/hydration.
Shoes are important, did it in trainers and the boggy parts were so much harder, have Inov8 Roclites this year.
Bike - not swapping to cycling shoes, too much time wasted changing wet shoes, wearing toe clips instead. 99% decided I'm going to use a mtb with slicks instead of my road bike with tourers. The roads aren't the best and if the wind is anything like last year no chance of making big gains, and if you can handle a bike at all you should be able to save a good bit of time on the CP sections.
Unless you're in the elites (or trying to beat your ex in your wave ) take a break at the top of CP, give the legs a couple of mins to recover, have something to eat/drink.
Put on your jacket and go for it, you're an hour ish from home!

nerraw1111

Ah I wouldn't want to quote Eoin for fear of misquoting him!

Basically, and I'm not attributing this to any one speaker.

Aim to run a negative split. If you go out too fast, you're fecked. If you go out too slow, you can always ramp up the speed towards the end. Pace is critical. People will fly out at the start but reassure yourself, you'll see them in 30 minutes time. Don't get sucked in to racing others.

Calculate what time you will gain/lose by changing footwear. There is no set answer for this. For some, it'll be worth changing shoes, for others it won't be. Test this out in training over a short distance and calculate how much quicker you are clipped in than not.

Also, break down the race down to 'time' rather than distance. Everyone's race will be different so you need to adjust your food/water/clothing to how long you'll be out there for.

For some, they won't need to carry any water till the bike section. There is no point starting the race with 1 litre on your back and finishing the race with the same litre.

One of the speakers recommended arm warmers. Another said don't use road shoes, another said you might get away with it on a nice day. Another said the time you'll lose with **** grips makes road shoes a liability.

One expert said he prefers to use the zig zag up and down CP as he can run the paths fast up and down. Another said he prefers to go straight down but he's experienced.

On CP, visibility could be terrible. Look back every now and again for features you pass so you don't get lost on the way down. Trying to memorize any turns you take. In previous racers, some people ended up going down the wrong side of the mountain by following non racers down the pilgirm path and had to climb back up.

Don't rely on marshalls for directions. They should be there but you should know where you're going anyway.

On the run immediately after the kayak, the terrain is quite rough and potential for much ankle twisting. Is it worth running fast through this section and gain time on the more cautious people? or should slow down a bit to avoid injury.

The majority of people use racing bikes. It's madness to use a mountain bike. This was brought up when someone suggested that hte recent changes changed the cycle into a mountain bike course. This was discounted out of hand by all the speakers.

All that above comes with a health warning, it may not be accurate as I went for a couple of pints afterwards!

The main advice, is that everyone's race is different and to prepare and race accordingly.

Also, if you haven't been up CP, you really should. But if you can't make it, the Sugar Loaf is similar terrain to the top of the CP. Be worth running up and down that a few times.

Oh and it might be a good idea to bring some power links with you in case of a chain break.

If you feel cramp coming on, stick some diarolyte into whatever drink you have. In the event of no drinks, it's still worth trying to swallow the powder.

Enduro

Good reporting everyone!
I'll just add to, amend or make corrections to a few things...

watergal wrote: »

-Don't go mad on gels. One every half an hour or so should suffice.(unless you've been doing this in training) otherwise you could end up with the scuts
-Same for carbs
-Paul mentioned that he brings small fun sized bars, nutrigrain,powerbar, flap jacks the like . (he doesn't like bananas)
-Don't go out with a full 2 lt bladder of water in the first run. There will be a water tap at the kayak stage and also at the bike transition. Know how much water you'll need via your training.

The most importatn points here:
- Don't do anything new on race day. Make sure you have already practiced your nutrition strategy in training.
- Gels and all other sports specific stuff may not be the right stuff for you. The most important thing to have food you will eat, not food you should eat. Having the best gels that money can buy and regurigitating them immediately won't do you any good.
- You guys were specifically mentioned as obsessing about gels etc. It's not that important.

watergal wrote: »

- Learn to kayak in a straight line if you can before GF

- Have done at least some little bit of kayaking, so that your first kayak trip isn't on the day of the race.

watergal wrote: »

On the GF route itself:
-The cycle is 2km longer this year
-The extra bit is doable on a road bike - Gators or armadillos would be the best option here

Reccommended, as opposed to best. Best is subjective. Also recommended are GP4000s... they're what I use. The underlying point is to have good puncture resistant tyres with the built in Kevlar strips. There are lots of different types out there with different advantages and disadvantages.

toomuchdetail

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Went to the talk last night. Very The diarolyte tip is a pretty good one for cramp and there was a suggestion that there is an over reliance on gels. Eoin Keith's advice by racing intelligently could save you a lot of time.

DO you know if this talk is on the web anywhere or the text of it ? The advice from these guys beats most of the fumbling here hands down.

Enduro

Wonkagirl wrote: »

tks for going to the trouble of posting watergal.. interesting stuff. glad to hear they seem confident about the road bike option. so the 200m bit they are talking about after CP, i assume, is the same bit as last yr? that was fairly treacherous alright.

So, from CP on, it's the same route as last yr?

were there many there watergal?

Yes, from CP on its the same as last year until westport itself, where there will be a different finish. Thetrechorous bit is in this section, just as the last big bike decent beigins.

Juding from the number of chairs we put out I'd say there were about 80 there.

Enduro

watergal wrote: »

There was also a video collage of expedition races by Avril, very impressive but I'm just too old for that malarky ! She must have the mental strength of a terminator. Seriously - unbelievable stuff , don't know how in the hell she can do it , but fair play to her !

I'm glad you enjoyed that. For all of us (the speakers) that was probably the biggest thing we were hoping to get out of it... to encourage you all to give the real adventure races a go. And there is nothing stopping anyone from giving them a go.

I don't know how old you are watergal, but there wasn't a single person in the room last night who was too old for that stuff. Most of the best international racers are in their mid 40s. There's quite a few older than that too.

Yes, Avril has great mental strenght, but fundamentally we're all just normal people who give these things a go. Not terminators or super beings... just ordinary joe and jane soaps. She does by just going out and doing it. Nothing magical at all.

In many ways the longer distance races are easier than the likes of gael force, as the pace is more relaxed, the races themselves are far more interesting, and you have the whole team aspect.

So go on guys... if you liked what you saw just give it a go.

Wonkagirl

Tks for all that Nerraw.. I'm very torn between zig zag and straight on CP. have come to conclusion i'd go zig zag up, and straight down.

Enduro, 80 is a great turn out. The feedback has been excellent so well done.

My legs are tired today. Very tired. have been overdoing it for the last 10 days. Taking today and tomorrow off ahead of Tulfarris10 on sat. really drives it home how hugely important it is to have a full 4-5 days of rest prior to Aug 21!

ThisRegard

Wonkagirl wrote: »

Tks for all that Nerraw.. I'm very torn between zig zag and straight on CP. have come to conclusion i'd go zig zag up, and straight down.

Have the organisers settled on letting people go whatever way they want There were murmurings that competitors will be forced to use the zig zag path rather than allow them choose between that or the more direct route.

Enduro

Wonkagirl wrote: »

only good thing is it cuts out the horrible hilly part.. I assume that's in **** after the recent weather and that's the logic?.

These things are usually about access issues. That would be my guess as to why its changed.

Enduro

nerraw1111 wrote: »

I don't want to risk repeating their advice lest I misquote them but i think watergal covered the basics.

The diarolyte tip is a pretty good one for cramp and there was a suggestion that there is an over reliance on gels. Eoin Keith's advice by racing intelligently could save you a lot of time.

The Base Camp shop looks really good too, some top gear in there and the space they have for the talks is great, so hopefully it'll be the first of many talks there.

Great evening and rather than gear being pushed on, they gave away some great kit. A guy from innov 8 shoes there, very helpful and informative.

Pity to see the route changed. I really enjoyed that hill. I want it tough!

Don't be afraid to quote me! I'll just correct you if you get it wrong, but so far you've been getting it spot on.

The gear in Basecamp is indeed very good. Practically a "who's who" of the best brands in the AR world. Not too surprising when you see the backgrounds of the staff.

It is indeed a pity to loose one of the off-road sections, but if you want it tough, sign up for one of the better races!

Enduro

Wonkagirl wrote: »

where exactly is the store- is it opposite the back of arnotts? need to get some new gear this wend. really need a superthin warm layer for the CP climb, was cold and MISERABLE doing that last yr, wont be risking that again this yr, i was semi-hypothermic i'd say- and at that, i had a north face rain jacket on and a buff around my neck. i'm sure the lack of food and exhaustion wasnt helping, but an extra layer is essential this yr.

Basecamp is next to the abbey street Arnotts entrance.

Make sure you have a good base layer. Personally I'd recommend a Marino Wool top. I've been using some of them for the last year in some varied and extreme conditions to good effect. My favourite one is long sleeved and zipped. Also make sure you have a really good lightweight, but properlly waterprood shell jacket. That's a costly combination, but worth it if the weather turns.

Wonkagirl

Enduro wrote: »

Make sure you have a good base layer. Personally I'd recommend a Marino Wool top. .

Thanks enduro.. will you be wearing it from the start if the weather is ok setting out? or bringing it to change into at base of CP?

impossible to know really until the day i suppose

I am a danger to myself when i enter stores like Basecamp- i guarantee you i'll come out 200-300 quid lighter on sat- as you say though, these are investment pieces and make all the difference on the day.

God, i'm excited now.