Qualifications and Work.

Scamp-

I saw the thread 'Qualifications' and thought is was about college stuff.

But it makes me wonder.... a lot of you know what you are talking about and are professionals...

So out of you guys that are making your living out of photography (full or part time), how far did you go college wise ?

melekalikimaka

i''m study photography. its certainly not needed, it helps but is not needed.

Paulw

Scamp- wrote: »

So out of you guys that are making your living out of photography (full or part time), how far did you go college wise ?

For college in general, or specifically relating to photography??

For photography, never did anything at all photography related in college.

pete4130

I did a 1 year PLC course waaaaaay back in 2001 and thats it. All self taught by going out, shooting sh!t loads over the years and teaching myself everything.

It came up in conversation yesterday about going to college to study photography etc... I've friends that have gone through the course in DIT and IADT and who are currently in IADT. I came to realise the college doesn't actually tell you or really show you how to use a camera. It's more about the thought process and articulating an idea/theme into images and the history behind it (I know there is a lot more to the courses than that).

It struck me when friends of mine in their 2nd and 3rd year in IADT were coming to ask me how to shoot something. I've noticed that a fair few end of year exhibitions are very "samey" in their style and content and not that imaginative. A few pieces stand out but for me they are more the exception than the rule.

It also made me think about a trip I did across America with a friend of mine who finished up a 4 year photography degree in Columbus, Ohio. How she bragged and bragged about her 4 years of schooling was amazing and she was so in debt ($100,000) for photography because she loved it so much and her school taught her everything she needed to know (including how to use a camera seemingly). She also belittled me somewhat for NOT having a formal education in photography.......so I waited until my last day of the trip to tell her she had been shooting her D200 on "P" mode the entire trip :eek:
She was still convinced it stood for "person" mode or something where she had full control....until I pointed out that the apertures kept changing on their own and she had no control over them. To which she replied "yeah, I was wondering why that was happening?"

Photography isn't like an academic subject. You can get a degree in photography and your final year project could be as obscure as shooting blank walls once you have a reason/idea behind it and can justify that.
Just because you have a degree in photography doesn't mean you are a good photographer. I've seen a fair few final year pieces of work with weak ideas that have been poorly executed.

A photographer with no formal credentials and 10-20 years experience and hard work wold rate more as a photographer than someone who has just finished a degree IMO.

Now it might seem like I'm knocking the idea of going to 3rd level to study photography. I'm not. It's a great way to explore photography, learning how to think photographically and how to articulate an idea through images.

My point is that you don't need to go to college to become a good photographer.

What is more important, being a photography student or a photographer?

Paulw

pete4130 wrote: »

She also belittled me somewhat for NOT having a formal education in photography.......so I waited until my last day of the trip to tell her she had been shooting her D200 on "P" mode the entire trip :eek:
She was still convinced it stood for "person" mode or something where she had full control....until I pointed out that the apertures kept changing on their own and she had no control over them

And there was I thinking that "P" stood for "Professional" mode. :eek:

PCPhoto

photography is a practical thing.... only with practical experience will you learn.

no matter how much you read about it in a textbook - its the practical application of that learning which will be remembered.


PS. I did applied chemistry in college, worked at it for a couple of years but got bored of the mundane day to day, all the time I was doing photography on the side....have been working fulltime as a photographer for about 8yrs and part-time a couple of years before that.

melekalikimaka

pete4130 wrote: »

I came to realise the college doesn't actually tell you or really show you how to use a camera. It's more about the thought process and articulating an idea/theme into images and the history behind it (I know there is a lot more to the courses than that).

there is a large portion of fine art to it, learning how to use a camera is pretty easily picked up, the biggest benefit imo, is the 5 studios with full lighting/darkrooms/mf cameras/lf camera and all the other services on hand for duration of course. Structured projects, ywt with open ended are very good ways of learning, and the thought process behind it needs to be all recorded, so aids in critical thinking.

And the end of the day its an ARTS degree, qualifies you for nothing, and what you learn, it depends on what you put into the course. Some students i can see making alot of money, some i can see not so much

pete4130

@ melekalikimaka,

I totally agree. I wasn't dismissing studying photography at 3rd level or any level. I would love the opportunity to do 3-4 years in a structured environment because I know I would gain a lot from it, being willing to put a lot into it.
It would only serve to improve my thought process regarding photography.

dazftw

I'm just about finished a 1 year PLC course myself. At the start I was loving it and was convinced I would come back to do the next level. Now I'm not and the reason behind that is I found I was being pushed to take my photos a certain way to qualify which I didn't like at all.

I would show her 5 skateboarding images and was told I had to show "motion" and "action" which is all fine and good but this is my project and I want to do it my way. That's what its all about expressing your way of doing things..

I just found myself hating photography the last few weeks because I'm pushed to do it a certain way which I don't like at all.

I would rather be out doing it for myself where I know 100000000000% ill create something way better. I think Iv'e taken about 2 shots through all of the college year that I actually like..

melekalikimaka

dazftw wrote: »

I'm just about finished a 1 year PLC course myself. At the start I was loving it and was convinced I would come back to do the next level. Now I'm not and the reason behind that is I found I was being pushed to take my photos a certain way to qualify which I didn't like at all.

I would show her 5 skateboarding images and was told I had to show "motion" and "action" which is all fine and good but this is my project and I want to do it my way. That's what its all about expressing your way of doing things..

I just found myself hating photography the last few weeks because I'm pushed to do it a certain way which I don't like at all.

I would rather be out doing it for myself where I know 100000000000% ill create something way better. I think Iv'e taken about 2 shots through all of the college year that I actually like..

pretty sure i woulda done a similar course, it depends greatly on who is 'teaching', guiding would be more at i guess

dazftw

melekalikimaka wrote: »

pretty sure i woulda done a similar course, it depends greatly on who is 'teaching', guiding would be more at i guess

Yeah I have one teacher and she will let you do it whatever way you wanted. The rest of them were "no do it THIS way to pass"

I'm looking forward to being finished now to get started on my own projects.

melekalikimaka

dazftw wrote: »

Yeah I have one teacher and she will let you do it whatever way you wanted. The rest of them were "no do it THIS way to pass"

I'm looking forward to being finished now to get started on my own projects.

yeah mine was a bit more like that. its all bout 'just justify why and you can do whatever you wish'

Borderfox

19 years as a Mechanical Engineer specialising in heavy packaging machinery!!

tullie

This might not be related, but as the op says there appears to be alot of pros on this forum. So question in your experience are pros open to taking on interns? Like even for a day or two a week for a little while?

smelltheglove

I have no qualifications, I have years of photography learning from getting my first camera aged around 11, editing software around 17 to finally taking the dslr step a few years back. I did a short evening course and then learnt through putting myself in the hardest photographic situations I could.

To me photography is part business, part photography and part people skills, you need them all to succeed. You need business sense and marketing to get the clients to see you, to find you, you need the portfolio to grab them and you need the people skills to finalise the deal.

Borderfox

tullie wrote: »

This might not be related, but as the op says there appears to be alot of pros on this forum. So question in your experience are pros open to taking on interns? Like even for a day or two a week for a little while?

Yeah definitely, I have had a lot of people off Boards.ie give me a hand at Weddings as an assistant but if somebody wanted to do a day or two I could give them some experience in digital workflow/shooting

Hugh_C

Borderfox wrote: »

19 years as a Mechanical Engineer specialising in heavy packaging machinery!!

25 years in the tv industry, degrees in maths and electronics

tullie

Borderfox wrote: »

Yeah definitely, I have had a lot of people off Boards.ie give me a hand at Weddings as an assistant but if somebody wanted to do a day or two I could give them some experience in digital workflow/shooting

Sounds interesting, I'll drop you a pm if that's ok?

Paddy@CIRL

dazftw wrote: »

I'm just about finished a 1 year PLC course myself. At the start I was loving it and was convinced I would come back to do the next level. Now I'm not and the reason behind that is I found I was being pushed to take my photos a certain way to qualify which I didn't like at all.

I would show her 5 skateboarding images and was told I had to show "motion" and "action" which is all fine and good but this is my project and I want to do it my way. That's what its all about expressing your way of doing things..

I just found myself hating photography the last few weeks because I'm pushed to do it a certain way which I don't like at all.

I would rather be out doing it for myself where I know 100000000000% ill create something way better. I think Iv'e taken about 2 shots through all of the college year that I actually like..

I know the feeling, I wouldn't listen to MOBM too much mate

I always had an interest in photography, specifically in motorsports since I was 12/13. Got very lucky when I was 17 and started working with Prodrift Series as the series photographer. Finished school and done a 1 year PLC in Media & Journalism (photography was a module). Finished that and done a four year BA Hons in Design & Visual Communications which I graduated from last year.

I found college to be a great eye opener and thought me a lot in how to fight my side and push what I thought I knew. The background in design and journalism has been invaluable to me though, really helped me get an edge over the competition.

I started my own company in March and I've never been happier working for myself with no one (except the bank) to answer to. Things get done my way and my tastes, it's a great freedom to have.

dazftw

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

I know the feeling, I wouldn't listen to MOBM too much mate

hahaha

Fair play on the business also