What's With This Rally In Dublin on Saturday?

Morlar

Originally Posted by Morlar View Post
If the person stabbed had been white & in the same circumstances do you think the media would be asking more questions about the injuries on the person arrested and the background to this ?

Do you think the communists, socialists, & parties of the left would organise a march for a white victim if the perpetrators had been black instead ?

K-9 wrote: »

There have been protests against violent crime before so yes, it does happen.

That's not answering the question I asked though is it.

General Zod

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

There was an interesting post in a different thread ( now deleted ) but it was quoted subsequently here which pretty much matched exactly what the residents in the TT area have been trying to get out but nobody in the media seems willing to entertain.

I'm amazed at the unprofessional behaviour of the person who posted that, if true.

Hugo Drax

Morlar wrote: »

Originally Posted by Morlar View Post
If the person stabbed had been white & in the same circumstances do you think the media would be asking more questions about the injuries on the person arrested and the background to this ?

Do you think the communists, socialists, & parties of the left would organise a march for a white victim if the perpetrators had been black instead ?



That's not answering the question I asked though is it.

Assume the answer you're looking for is "No, they wouldn't".

But who knows, maybe they would.

vibe666

General Zod wrote: »

I'm amazed at the unprofessional behaviour of the person who posted that, if true.

yes, heaven forbid that someone would dare to expose the truth about something which the media at large is ignoring in order to sell more papers and paint an incorrect version of events. :rolleyes:

"scumbag 1 stabs scumbag 2" is a lot less of a story and wouldn't sell nearly as many newspapers as an outrageous unprovoked, racially motivated attack on an innocent boy on his way home who was just minding his own business.

Hugo Drax

vibe666 wrote: »

yes, heaven forbid that someone would dare to expose the truth about something which the media at large is ignoring in order to sell more papers and paint an incorrect version of events. :rolleyes:

"scumbag 1 stabs scumbag 2" is a lot less of a story and wouldn't sell nearly as many newspapers as an outrageous unprovoked, racially motivated attack on an innocent boy on his way home who was just minding his own business.

Well until the 2 gentlemen accused of this crime have their day in Court we can't say what the motivation was, good bad or indifferent.

The media have inferred, as seems reasonable to do that since the victim was a black child of good character and standing and the 2 accused are white men in their 30s it seems the motive was probably racial.

This may be proved wrong at trial.

It's not unreasonable to assume a racial motive.

Furthermore, those who are planning a protest are well meaning if a little misguided politically.

K-9

Morlar wrote: »

Originally Posted by Morlar View Post
If the person stabbed had been white & in the same circumstances do you think the media would be asking more questions about the injuries on the person arrested and the background to this ?

Do you think the communists, socialists, & parties of the left would organise a march for a white victim if the perpetrators had been black instead ?



That's not answering the question I asked though is it.

OK, if a black man stabbed a white man in similar circumstances, I'd say some media would be very interested, the Mail etc.

Would they just get the initial reports and not really bother following it up? Yes, like the case you quoted in Louth, they just go on the initial reports and move onto the next murder etc.

Would they march? Probably not, it is the SWP types etc. a couple of thousand turned up, so I'm not getting too bothered about it!

General Zod wrote: »

I'm amazed at the unprofessional behaviour of the person who posted that, if true.

Exactly, plus it seems to be exaggerating the case.

Morlar

K-9 wrote: »

Would they march? Probably not, it is the SWP types etc. a couple of thousand turned up, so I'm not getting too bothered about it!

Except it was less than a thousand. Also it wasnt just the socialist workers party, there was an MEP, labour TD, public sector unions and so on.

K-9

vibe666 wrote: »

yes, heaven forbid that someone would dare to expose the truth about something which the media at large is ignoring in order to sell more papers and paint an incorrect version of events. :rolleyes:

"scumbag 1 stabs scumbag 2" is a lot less of a story and wouldn't sell nearly as many newspapers as an outrageous unprovoked, racially motivated attack on an innocent boy on his way home who was just minding his own business.

Shock horror, media in sensationalising story shocker.

OutlawPete

K-9 wrote: »

Don't think you'll ever comprehend it so keep up the personal attacks.

Personal attack?

I made no personal comment about you, okay.

I quoted what you said and commented on it, that couldn't be any further from a personal attack, bizarre.

K-9 wrote: »

I haven't really commented on the reaction at all, so wrong there.

This is quite unbelievable, I am not wrong. People can read you know K9.

Here is what you said in black and white:

K-9 wrote: »

Plenty of cases in the last few years of public outrage at white victims of knife crime and other violent crime too.

I suppose people dismiss this stuff as it doesn't fit with the white persecution complex, so common on AH. Is it coz I'm white?

Hugo Drax

Morlar wrote: »

Except it was less than a thousand. Also it wasnt just the socialist workers party, there was an MEP, labour TD, public sector unions and so on.

I don't know exactly what "protests" are supposed to achieve?

K-9

Morlar wrote: »

Except it was less than a thousand. Also it wasnt just the socialist workers party, there was an MEP, labour TD, public sector unions and so on.

So even less.

If the TD and MEP are local, I'd say that is perfectly reasonable. Apart from the details of this case, there is an even more important concern here, community relations.

Hugo Drax

K-9 wrote: »

So even less.

If the TD and MEP are local, I'd say that is perfectly reasonable. Apart from the details of this case, there is an even more important concern here, community relations.

The greatest concern here is that an innocent child was attacked and murdered for no apparent reason.

This further illustrates the lawlessness that is endemic in Irish society at present.

prinz

K-9 wrote: »

If the TD and MEP are local, I'd say that is perfectly reasonable. Apart from the details of this case, there is an even more important concern here, community relations.

Having listened to some of the rhetoric that was spouted down near the Dáil, this protest did nothing for commuity relations, the opposite was true.

vibe666

Hugo Drax wrote: »

Well until the 2 gentlemen accused of this crime have their day in Court we can't say what the motivation was, good bad or indifferent.

i think we can agree on that much at least.

anything else is speculation until the courts decide what is true, but newspapers printing their own speculation as fact seems to be getting worse and worse recently and needs to be stopped.

K-9 wrote: »

Shock horror, media in sensationalising story shocker.

at what point should they be called on it though?

Hugo Drax

vibe666 wrote: »

i think we can agree on that much at least.

anything else is speculation until the courts decide what is true, but newspapers printing their own speculation as fact seems to be getting worse and worse recently and needs to be stopped.

Freedom of the press is guaranteed under Bunreacht na hEireann and will rarely if ever be stopped.

The press are making what seems to be a logical inference given the circumstances, that this child was murdered because he was black...

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

Personal attack?

I made no personal comment about you, okay.

I quoted what you said and commented on it, that couldn't be any further from a personal attack, bizarre.



This is quite unbelievable, I am not wrong. People can read you know K9.

Here is what you said in black and white:

Jaysus, knife crime was a major issue and subject of public alarm 3/4 years ago. Huge media coverage. It still is Pete. If you cannot grasp that or want to ignore it, fair enough.

Orange69

Hugo Drax wrote: »

The press are making what seems to be a logical inference given the circumstances, that this child was murdered because he was black...

A logical inference? Are you high?

OutlawPete

prinz wrote: »

Having listened to some of the rhetoric that was spouted down near the Dáil, this protest did nothing for commuity relations, the opposite was true.

Exactly and it has just created tension and bad feeling in the area.

Bad feeling that is being portrayed as racism.

If it comes out that the people at that march knew race had little to do with the attack, then it's a absolute disgrace.

K-9

prinz wrote: »

Having listened to some of the rhetoric that was spouted down near the Dáil, this protest did nothing for commuity relations, the opposite was true.

What was said?

prinz

K-9 wrote: »

What was said?

Listened in long enough to hear that the certain sections of the community were being victimised by the Gardaí especially, bit of rabble rousing that people were going to have to 'take care of themselves' because no one else could be relied upon to take care of them. After that I gave up, utter twaddle that leads to nothing but an us versus them mentality.

vibe666

Hugo Drax wrote: »

The press are making what seems to be a logical inference given the circumstances, that this child was murdered because he was black...

nope, not at all. the press are jumping to conclusions with no evidence whatsoever and totally ignoring eyewitness accounts in favour of a sensationalist headline.

• he is dead (until there is a criminal conviction for murder nobody can state that he was murdered). it may have been murder, but so far there has been only a single charge of manslaughter, not murder.
  
• he was black (i have seen no evidence it was a racially motivated attack, on the contrary from what i've read and heard about it, if he had been white it would have ended the same way).

anything more than that is wild speculation at this stage until the full details come out in court, but it's fairly clear already that there is a lot of very onesided reporting going on in favour of a version of events that will sell more papers.

K-9

prinz wrote: »

Listened in long enough to hear that the certain sections of the community were being victimised by the Gardaí especially, bit of rabble rousing that people were going to have to 'take care of themselves' because no one else could be relied upon to take care of them. After that I gave up, utter twaddle that leads to nothing but an us versus them mentality.

The usual suspects then. Its important to have community workers, councillors, TD's etc. making sure this doesn't happen.

OutlawPete

K-9 wrote: »

If you cannot grasp that or want to ignore it, fair enough.

I quoted you as saying something you denied commenting on and this is your reply?

And you accuse other posters of "ignoring" things, how ironic.

I have addressed each and every one of your paper thin arguments (as have others) and you keep coming back with nonsensical statements.

I see no point in discussing this with you any further, as your beliefs that people on After Hours have a 'White persecution complex' say everything that needs to be said quite frankly.

donkey balls

a lot of perople who live in the area including myself are pissed off the way the media is portraying the area,some of the people here have tried to get in contact with the papers including myself to give our side of events to no avail.
the sunday tribune had an article about it on their website and at the bottom of it you could leave a message of support,some knobhead then posts a message saying he wants all africans out of ireland and he would start an irish k*K.
this only stirred things up amongst the african comunity who started posting crap and making threats that they would avenge toys death and one particular poster posted three times that Ireland would see an 9/11 and that the gardai&security svcs would get a going over.

Nodin

People will type any oul crap when the bloods up. Sure look at the "torture" threads that pop up here after certain cases. I wouldn't pay much heed to it.

donkey balls

Nodin wrote: »

People will type any oul crap when the bloods up. Sure look at the "torture" threads that pop up here after certain cases. I wouldn't pay much heed to it.

well a certain section in the govt who i contacted looked on it as been seriious and will investigate it also the article has since been taken down

MagicSean

Hugo Drax wrote: »

The greatest concern here is that an innocent child was attacked and murdered for no apparent reason.

This further illustrates the lawlessness that is endemic in Irish society at present.

How do you know he was innocent and he was attacked for no reason?

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

I quoted you as saying something you denied commenting on and this is your reply?

And you accuse other posters of "ignoring" things, how ironic.

I have addressed each and every one of your paper thin arguments (as have others) and you keep coming back with nonsensical statements.

I see no point in discussing this with you any further, as your beliefs that people on After Hours have a 'White persecution complex' say everything that needs to be said quite frankly.

I said I hadn't commented much on the protest, which I hadn't at that stage. You are seeing things that aren't there pete. You took it up as me denying the white persecution complex. I understand why you misread that as you seem fixated on it. Don't take it personally pete, I didn't say you have a white persecution complex, I don't think you know what it is.

Edit: I have commented on the reaction to the reaction, which IMO has an element of the white persecution complex about it, it is allowed pete. Don't take it personally.

There has been plenty of concern over knife crime, maybe even hysteria.

Pacing Mule

Hugo Drax wrote: »

The greatest concern here is that an innocent child was attacked and murdered for no apparent reason.

This further illustrates the lawlessness that is endemic in Irish society at present.

That's exactly in keeping with the media reporting but completely at odds with what the residents and eye witnesses to the events are reporting.

Pacing Mule

K-9 wrote: »

Exactly, plus it seems to be exaggerating the case.

Then every resident and eye witness who were not actually involved but who saw this and have made statements to the Gardai are also exaggerating.

OutlawPete

K-9 wrote: »

I said I hadn't commented much on the protest.

You are seeing things that aren't there pete.

Really?

K-9 wrote: »

I haven't really commented on the reaction at all so wrong there.

Still "seeing things" am I?

Nodin

donkey balls wrote: »

well a certain section in the govt who i contacted looked on it as been seriious and will investigate it also the article has since been taken down

Christ help them if they look on here then so.

youcrazyjesus!

Nodin wrote: »

People will type any oul crap when the bloods up. Sure look at the "torture" threads that pop up here after certain cases. I wouldn't pay much heed to it.

I found the comment on google, the actual cached copy doesn't contain the comment, google probably updates the search index and cache copies on a different schedule. This is sort of thing is a disgrace. If it's true the Gardaí are looking at it then I'm very happy with that. Imagine I did something similar in the Australia or the USA? Threatened terrorism over an attack on an Irish immigrant. They'd do a no knock on my door at dawn and kick lumps out of me. Nobody should get away publishing those type of threats in any civilised country.

It's appalling behaviour but from what I can see in tune with the reaction of a lot of people this crime. Blaming the whole population, the Government, the Gardaí, whoever. I took a look at Stormfront's website to this killing and even some of the simian racists over there accept that killing an innocent child is unacceptable. 99.999% will see such a killing is wrong and oppose it. Why are these groups mobilising and slandering all of Ireland? It's a disgrace and actually the cause of division not the solution to it. It's clear there is an encouraging level of cohesion among the young people of the area. They should be left to grieve and the boy should be remembered appropriately. Left wing groups who seem to exist only to blame, blame, blame and the usual suspects who go along to any march as a reflex without even thinking for a second about the issue really piss me off. They are stirring up trouble where there is none. If Stormfront simians can muster up even begrudging sympathy for this killing then I think we're ok as a society.

People shouldn't confuse casual xenophobia and misconceptions about immigrants with hardcore racism too. We do not have a serious racist problem in this country. We are doing very well on the integration front. It's not perfect, not by a long way, but it's in our nature to be friendly to all those around us. I know for a fact that the younger generation are (and will) growing up together properly and we won't have a serious problem in the future.

Shame on people slandering all of us and stirring up trouble at these marches.

youcrazyjesus!

comment.jpg

There is the comment btw.

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

Really?



Still "seeing things" am I?

Reaction = people jumping to racist assumptions.

Reaction to the reaction = if this was a white man type stuff.

K-9

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Then every resident and eye witness who were not actually involved but who saw this and have made statements to the Gardai are also exaggerating.

Could well be, I haven't seen the statements. The post you are referring to has holes in it as well. Usually with these things, there are 2 sides to the story, the truth is usually the third version, the objective one.

donkey balls

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I found the comment on google, the actual cached copy doesn't contain the comment, google probably updates the search index and cache copies on a different schedule. This is sort of thing is a disgrace. If it's true the Gardaí are looking at it then I'm very happy with that. Imagine I did something similar in the Australia or the USA? Threatened terrorism over an attack on an Irish immigrant. They'd do a no knock on my door at dawn and kick lumps out of me. Nobody should get away publishing those type of threats in any civilised country.

It's appalling behaviour but from what I can see in tune with the reaction of a lot of people this crime. Blaming the whole population, the Government, the Gardaí, whoever. I took a look at Stormfront's website to this killing and even some of the simian racists over there accept that killing an innocent child is unacceptable. 99.999% will see such a killing is wrong and oppose it. Why are these groups mobilising and slandering all of Ireland? It's a disgrace and actually the cause of division not the solution to it. It's clear there is an encouraging level of cohesion among the young people of the area. They should be left to grieve and the boy should be remembered appropriately. Left wing groups who seem to exist only to blame, blame, blame and the usual suspects who go along to any march as a reflex without even thinking for a second about the issue really piss me off. They are stirring up trouble where there is none. If Stormfront simians can muster up even begrudging sympathy for this killing then I think we're ok as a society.

People shouldn't confuse casual xenophobia and misconceptions about immigrants with hardcore racism too. We do not have a serious racist problem in this country. We are doing very well on the integration front. It's not perfect, not by a long way, but it's in our nature to be friendly to all those around us. I know for a fact that the younger generation are (and will) growing up together properly and we won't have a serious problem in the future.

Shame on people slandering all of us and stirring up trouble at these marches.

all i can say is that the gardai and another govt dept were informed off the comments posted, as someone who has worked for a major US airline even pre 9/11 we take security very serious and all airlines are updated by the govt dept&gardai on possible threats. and all threats no matter how trival are investigated

vibe666

K-9 wrote: »

Usually with these things, there are 2 sides to the story, the truth is usually the third version, the objective one.

unfortunately it seems like everyone is having an allergic reaction to the 2nd version of events and doesn't seem to want to entertain any idea that doesn't involve racism.

OutlawPete

vibe666 wrote: »

unfortunately it seems like everyone is having an allergic reaction to the 2nd version of events and doesn't seem to want to entertain any idea that doesn't involve racism.

The ferocious appetite for it to be a 'racist killing' is nauseating.

K-9

vibe666 wrote: »

unfortunately it seems like everyone is having an allergic reaction to the 2nd version of events and doesn't seem to want to entertain any idea that doesn't involve racism.

Not everyone, that's a massive generalisation. I'd be surprised if the young lad was killed for no reason whatsoever, just out of the blue, for being black. Sometimes people don't want to hear the second version, thinking of the Listowel sexual assault case as an example. There are 2 different versions here, there are probably elements of truth in both.

OutlawPete wrote: »

The ferocious appetite for it to be a 'racist killing' is nauseating.

So is using that reaction to make some point about a stabbing in Drogheda, but there you are.

FlutterinBantam

Bunch of crusties with nothing better to do,I would opine.


Ignore them.

OutlawPete

K-9 wrote: »

So is using that reaction to make some point about a stabbing in Drogheda, but there you are.

"Some point"?

No K9, THE point, the only point that anyone has made.

One which you still fail to grasp or acknowledge without dismissing it as "White persecution complex".

You are 100% wrong.

You were only to willing to accept this as a racist killing without evidence, why?

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

You were only to willing to accept this as a racist killing without evidence, why?

I said what now?

Away you go and quote where I said that.

OutlawPete

K-9 wrote: »

I said what now?

Away you go and quote where I said that.

You are saying now that you DON'T think it was RACIST attack and never did?

If that is the case then why what is your point, do you even have one?

Pacing Mule

If this was the WWE this would be a pay per view Royal Rumble.

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

You are saying now that you DON'T think it was RACIST attack and never did?

If that is the case then why what is your point, do you even have one?

I said nothing like it, I asked you for quotes which haven't appeared, that is all.

Where did I say the above pete?

Nerin

It doesnt matter whether the kid was black, or white or asian. He got stabbed.
He shouldnt have been stabbed. The white kid that got stabbed shouldnt have been stabbed. All the kids that have been stabbed, shot or beaten to death in Ireland shouldnt have had any of that happen to them.

The march looks hijacked with the political bs. thats not the dead kids fault.
Its not black peoples fault or the jews or the spaghetti monster or whoever. Its the fault of the jerks who just want to cash in on a kids death to make a point or get noticed.

You dont like them marching for a black kid? boo hoo, at least someone organised it. If youre so wound up about white people being murdered and not getting marchs, get off your ass, remove the chip from your shoulder and do something.

whinging that its all about the foreigners and not about the irish helps no one. Sure the march probably helped no one. But at least the people there at that thing (at least the ones that were sincere and not using it as a photo op >_>) that were sincere had the get up and go to stand up and say they were appalled by what happened.

Did any of you (or stormfront, who are loving&loathing the whole thing in equal measures) who are so hung up on white people being killed and not getting enough sympathy actually do anything?

Because if you did, you'd get alot of support, at least from people that count. Get it spread around the web and people will turn up, even wanky politicians who want a photo op.
And i bet you'd get some begrudgers on here too.

OutlawPete

K-9 wrote: »

I said nothing like it, I asked you for quotes which haven't appeared, that is all.

Quotes of what?

And you say I see things that aren't there.

I never said you said anything.

There was a Question Mark at the end of the sentence you quoted, did you miss it?

Your stance and outrage when I suggested on this thread and the other one that the Media interest, Public outrage is only because it is being portrayed as a racist attack would suggest that you think it is a racist attack.

If you don't, then why are you not condemning the march also?

Or at the very least stop replying to my posts when I say that the March should not have happened.

All you are doing is tying yourself to that side of the debate, which is screaming "Racism".

OutlawPete

Nerin wrote: »

You dont like them marching for a black kid?

Yeah, that's it, people are opposed to the march cause he is Black.

It has nothing to do with the fact that TDs and media got behind this killing claiming it was a racist attack when there was no evidence of that.

Nerin wrote: »

If youre so wound up about white people being murdered and not getting marchs, get off your ass, remove the chip from your shoulder and do something.

Who do you think you are coming on to the thread and throwing around personal insults?

How do you know what I do and don't do?

You don't know me from Adam, so keep your personal comments to yourself thanks.

Nerin

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yeah, that's it, people are opposed to the march cause he is Black.

It has nothing to do with the fact that TDs and media got behind this killing claiming it was a racist attack when there was no evidence of that.



Who do you think you are coming on to the thread and throwing around personal insults?

How do you know what I do and don't do?

You don't know me from Adam, so keep your personal comments to yourself thanks.

There are alot of people that are pissed off at the fact a black kid is getting "more attention" than numerous white kids. If you cant see there are SOME or ALOT NOT ALL people pissed because of that, then you need to read all the different stuff on the web again. and again. and again.

Of course it has something to do with tds getting behind it. your sarcasm and crazy defensivness aside, TDs are always gonna latch onto something they think the can get votes or publicity out of.

wow, chill out. ive no idea who you are.
it was a collective you, not a hey important pete im addressing you in my first post.
Now i am. because i quoted you.