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How good a parent would you be? (Or are you)

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    #32
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Did you adopt these children or did your partner ? The main concern I have with couples of the same sex adopting is the danger of the child being sent back to the orphanage if their legal guardian dies.

    If the law changes to allow gay parents to marry then I will no longer have a problem with gay people adopting but untill that happens it is just selfish in my opinion for gay couples to adopt.

    Then the childs rights are in danger because the legislature has not recognised the realities of family life

    What happens if a married couple who have adopted die?

    What happens if a single parent dies?

    Are married and single people selfish to want to adopt because they might die?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #33
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    That is why marriage is needed... not the opposite.
    It is a similar situation as with single mothers for whom the father name is not on the birth certificate.
    Or as with ANY adoption by singles...
    Agreed, but untill gay marriage is brought in I don't believe that gay couples should adopt.
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    The difference is that the partner, or the family network of both partners, can step up and apply to adopt the child.
    Which is the same situation as for any unmarried couples adopting.
    They can apply to adopt the child. But there is no guarantee they will succeed. There can be no gurantees with gay people adopting, that's why I'm not infavour of it.
    Johnnymcg wrote:
    What happens if a married couple who have adopted die?
    If both people of a married couple die then the child will be sent back to the orphanage if a relative or friend dose not apply for adoption. Of course again there is no guarantee that this adoption will succeed. But it's far less likley that two people in a hetrosexual relationship will die then one in the case of a homosexual couple.
    Johnnymcg wrote:
    What happens if a single parent dies?
    I don't believe that single people should adopt.
    Johnnymcg wrote:
    Are married and single people selfish to want to adopt because they might die?
    No, because a couple are much less likely to die then one single person.


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    #34
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Did you adopt these children or did your partner ? The main concern I have with couples of the same sex adopting is the danger of the child being sent back to the orphanage if their legal guardian dies.

    If the law changes to allow gay parents to marry then I will no longer have a problem with gay people adopting but untill that happens it is just selfish in my opinion for gay couples to adopt.

    Perhaps they're the fruit of his own loins? Gay and Bisexual people conceive children, some even raise them. It's a bit of a shocker I know.


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    #35
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There can be no gurantees with gay people adopting, that's why I'm not infavour of it.

    There's no guarantees with anyone adopting - whats your point?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #36
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Boston wrote: »
    Perhaps they're the fruit of his own loins? Gay and Bisexual people conceive children, some even raise them. It's a bit of a shocker I know.
    A homosexual male couple cannot conceive children.


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    #37
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    There's no guarantees with anyone adopting - whats your point?
    I think you missed my point. I ment there can be no guarantees on the childs security.


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    #38
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A homosexual male couple cannot conceive children.

    With each other no, but that doesn't mean they can't have children.

    Really no one can tell if a person no matter what sexuality will be a good parent until they are the parenting trenches.

    Loving the child and doing what is best for the child is all that a parent need to be able to do.

    Does my sexuality impact on how I parent my kids? Yup, they are aware that there are more then just heterosexual relationships in the world and that they may grow up to like boys, or girl or boys and girls.
    They also think that a law which would stop them marrying whom ever they fall in love with just because they are the same gender is dumb.


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    #39
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I think you missed my point. I ment there can be no guarantees on the childs security.

    No I didn't - People cannot offer 100% guaranteed security Married or Not Married, Gay or Straight - we have even seen some cases recently where married couples have not been in a position to offer permanent security to adopted children

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #40
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A homosexual male couple cannot conceive children.

    But one in the couple can. Just like one can (and some have) adopt as sole adopter.
    Might have had a heterosexual past. Might be bisexual.
    Might have by surrogacy. (Artificial or natural insemination)

    This is the same in EVERY infertile couples: they cannot conceive. Never mind why.
    Should only fertile couples be allowed to marry?
    Should only fertile couples be allowed to adopt?
    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    No I didn't - People cannot offer 100% guaranteed security Married or Not Married, Gay or Straight - we have even seen some cases recently where married couples have not been in a position to offer permanent security to adopted children

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055879409


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    #41
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    With each other no, but that doesn't mean they can't have children.
    Do you mean via surrogacy ? To be honest I didn't know very much about this but then I looked up citizensinformation.ie and came across this:
    Citizensinformation.ie wrote:
    Under current legislation in Ireland, the surrogate mother is legally the natural mother of the child and is the guardian of the child. Private adoptions are not permitted in Ireland, and a parent of a child is prohibited from receiving any payment for giving away a child for adoption. If the child is being adopted, this must be done through the Adoption Board, and there is no guarantee* that the child of a surrogate mother will be placed with the biological father.
    *Note that citizensinformation.ie highlighted this part, not me.


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    #42
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    No I didn't - People cannot offer 100% guaranteed security Married or Not Married, Gay or Straight - we have even seen some cases recently where married couples have not been in a position to offer permanent security to adopted children
    There is a greater risk of one guardian dying then two. I'm against both single people and gay couples adopting because of this.


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    #43
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Do you mean via surrogacy ? To be honest I didn't know very much about this but then I looked up citizensinformation.ie and came across this:


    *Note that citizensinformation.ie highlighted this part, not me.

    There is no reason why the father can't be made guardian of the child and have joint or sole custody.


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    #44
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There is a greater risk of one guardian dying then two. I'm against both single people and gay couples adopting because of this.

    There's is a higher risk of the child being physically or sexually abused in the care of the state then there is of a young adult suddenly dying.


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    #45
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    But one in the couple can. Just like one can (and some have) adopt as sole adopter.
    As I've wrote on this thread before I believe gay people adopting a child without the legal securities that marriage provides is selfish.
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    Might have had a heterosexual past. Might be bisexual.
    But then the childs mother may battle for custody of the child and as it writes here:
    Citizensinformation.ie wrote:
    the Judge could hold that the parent's involvement in a same-sex relationship may affect the child's welfare.
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    Might have by surrogacy. (Artificial or natural insemination)
    See above.
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    Should only fertile couples be allowed to marry?
    Yes, and they should be allowed to marry.
    Pink Adoptions wrote: »
    Should only fertile couples be allowed to adopt?
    No adoption should be open to all married individuals.


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    #46
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Boston wrote: »
    There's is a higher risk of the child being physically or sexually abused in the care of the state then there is of a young adult suddenly dying.
    That's an outrageous claim. Do you have any proof of this ?


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    #47
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That's an outrageous claim. Do you have any proof of this ?

    Nah, I've been living under a rock for the last 20 years. :rolleyes: young sudden death syndrome is rare. Neglect in state care isn't. Anyone who thinks a child is better off in the care of the state is simply wrong.


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    #48
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    OK, I think everybody made clear their point of view, and we are not here to change people's minds... just to offer them food for thoughts.

    Remember, the topic is not "should gays be allowed to adopt, or even marry." It is "tell us about real-life stories about gay parenting."

    Any more testimonials, the three we got so far were very interesting and compelling.

    Here is a template you can use to post replies:
    - What is your relationship to the LGBT community?
    - What is your family and marital status?
    - Do you have or want children?
    - Do you know LGBT people who raise or want to raise children?
    - Do you have a short story to tell about your/their qualities (or lack of) that makes you/them more or less good parent material?


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    #49
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Boston wrote: »
    Nah, I've been living under a rock for the last 20 years. :rolleyes: young sudden death syndrome is rare. Neglect in state care isn't. Anyone who thinks a child is better off in the care of the state is simply wrong.
    You cannot make outlandish claims like that on an internet forum and use it as evidence in the discussion. I've known many children brought up under state care and I've known many children brought up by bad parents.

    I can safely say the children brought up in state care where much better disciplined and did better in life then those brought up by bad parents.


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    #50
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Did you adopt these children or did your partner ? The main concern I have with couples of the same sex adopting is the danger of the child being sent back to the orphanage if their legal guardian dies.

    If the law changes to allow gay parents to marry then I will no longer have a problem with gay people adopting but untill that happens it is just selfish in my opinion for gay couples to adopt.

    Your jumping the the assumption when I said I wasn't straight, that I'm gay which would be incorrect!
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    As I've wrote on this thread before I believe gay people adopting a child without the legal securities that marriage provides is selfish.

    How many hetrosexuals have children outside of wedlock? Do you feel the same concerns for single mothers or what would your views be on that?


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    #51
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Your jumping the the assumption when I said I wasn't straight, that I'm gay which would be incorrect!
    If you aren't straight or gay then you must be Bi, which means you could have a partner which means I wasn't wrong.
    stephen_n wrote: »
    How many hetrosexuals have children outside of wedlock? Do you feel the same concerns for single mothers or what would your views be on that?
    We aren't writing about people having children out of wedlock, we are writing about people adopting out of wedlock.

    Big difference.

    Now if you don't mind I don't think we should bring this any futher since the OP has just asked us not to.


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    #52
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Well the first post speaks about gay as the only option which is a flawed premise to start with unless the OP didn't want to hear from bisexuals and if that is the case they should discount my posts.


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    #53
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Well the first post speaks about gay as the only option which is a flawed premise to start with unless the OP didn't want to hear from bisexuals and if that is the case they should discount my posts.
    The OP doesn't say anything about gay only.


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    #54
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    ORLY?

    Last edited by Pink Adoptions; Today at 08:51. Reason: clarify: this is not about debating IF gays can be good parents, but WHEN/HOW they demonstrated they can be


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    #55
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    ORLY?

    Last edited by Pink Adoptions; Today at 08:51. Reason: clarify: this is not about debating IF gays can be good parents, but WHEN/HOW they demonstrated they can be
    Ahhh, I haven't looked at it since it was edited...


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    #56
    Pink Adoptions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Pink Adoptions


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    ORLY?

    Last edited by Pink Adoptions; Today at 08:51. Reason: clarify: this is not about debating IF gays can be good parents, but WHEN/HOW they demonstrated they can be

    I should have said "LGBT", as "pink" is an umbrella term covering LGBT people... etc... etc.
    I will correct... the suggested templates is clear enough I hope.

    Also, when you talk about a couple, then as a couple they are either both of the same gender, or both of the opposite gender. (Unless we talk about the T...)
    There is no "bisexual" couple (by definition), only bisexual individuals.
    As for individuals adopting, then what goes for gays goes for bisexuals (except they can pretend to be hetero)

    Let's not nit-pick in front of the children, but rather give them positive stories to empower them. That will help them face bullies.


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    #57
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If you aren't straight or gay then you must be Bi, which means you could have a partner which means I wasn't wrong.


    We aren't writing about people having children out of wedlock, we are writing about people adopting out of wedlock.

    Big difference.

    Now if you don't mind I don't think we should bring this any futher since the OP has just asked us not to.

    No I had a partner who I am no longer with, which doesn't effect my rights as a father and doesn't effect my childrens well being either should anything happen to me and their mother as in all cases our families would step in. Which is no different than in the case of a gay adoptive parent, unless you are working on the false premis that Gay parents wouldn't have the same family supports behind them?


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    #58
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Originally Posted by Pink Adoptions
    Should only fertile couples be allowed to adopt?
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, and they should be allowed to marry.

    Should infertile couples not be allowed to marry?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #59
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    As much as I find Iwasfrozen's confused and frustrated ramblings fascinating, I'd actually rather hear accounts of LGB people who have raised children.


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    #60
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    Should infertile couples not be allowed to marry?
    No, infertile couples should be allowed to marry.


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    #61
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Boston wrote: »
    As much as I find Iwasfrozen's confused and frustrated ramblings fascinating, I'd actually rather hear accounts of LGB people who have raised children.
    Yes, because anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view must be be confused and/or frustrated. :rolleyes:


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