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Dawkins & Hitchens plan to arrest Pope.

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12467…11

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    #92
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Pittens wrote: »
    Catholic bashing has really taken off.
    Well catholic church bashing is kinda justifiable...


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    #93
    ghostdancer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    Sheeps wrote: »
    Isn't the Pope a head of state, thus immune from this kind of thing?

    no.

    The Vatican is not a state.

    it has some diplomatic roles similar to states, but I don't think it is legally recognised as one.


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    #94
    Chorcai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Chorcai


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Dawkins is an attention whore.

    He's only doing this to push his own agenda rather than out of concern for victims of child abuse.

    I have no idea who they are but at least they are doing something other than the wringing hands and tut tut's from politcal parties.


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    #95
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,771 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    What nefarious agenda are people accusing Hitchens and Dawkins of using this issue to promote exactly?


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    #96
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    The Pope is evil.


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    #97
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    "Your Honour, I believe my client's case should be dismissed on the grounds that I don't personally like Dawkins or Hitchens. I rest my case."

    (Warning: contains sarcasm.)


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    #98
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    bleg wrote: »
    The Pope is evil.

    Sinead O'Connor is not looking so crazy now when you look back.

    She maybe as mad as a box of animal crackers, but she was the first high profile person that I can remember that attacked the Catholic Church of child abuse.

    I must send her this pic ... :p


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    #99
    Bodhisopha
    Registered Users Posts: 4,068 ✭✭✭Bodhisopha


    keane2097 wrote: »
    What nefarious agenda are people accusing Hitchens and Dawkins of using this issue to promote exactly?

    Book promotion, the bastards!


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    #100
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    keane2097 wrote: »
    What nefarious agenda are people accusing Hitchens and Dawkins of using this issue to promote exactly?


    Fully grown men not raping kids.



    How dare they?


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    #101
    Prof.Badass
    Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Sheeps wrote: »
    Isn't the Pope a head of state, thus immune from this kind of thing? Dawkins is a prick and pop atheists are literally the scum of the earth.
    wtf????

    :confused:
    banquo wrote: »
    Not really. Name three people in the Vatican apart from the pope without using google? You can't. And if you can it's not because they're attention whores.

    Dawkins doesn't love science; he hates religion and his hatred gets rewarded with attention, so he carries on with it. I'm not of the faith; if another person is then great, more power to them. their leader
    fyp.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    Anybody who believes in a set menu of beliefs laid down to them from an organisation of celibate old men is an idiot and all right thinking people should identify them as such. It's not as if they live in a rain forest, in modern society information is everywhere and effectively free. There is no excuse for believing in silly Bronze Age stories in the modern world.

    Any person who fully believes in anything that cannot be proven is not right in the head (idiot is not the right word as craziness isn't related to intelligence... some of the biggest geniuses in certain fields were completely gaga).
    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Fundamentalist atheists ramming their atheism down our throats are as bad as any religious fundamentalists.
    To take your logic to it's ultimate conclusion, fundamentalist abolishionists were as bad as the racist slave-owners they were fighting. hardly.
    Pittens wrote: »
    What happened? Catholic bashing has really taken off.

    Yeah, and a lot of it can be kinda dumb at times. Normally i'd appeal to reason but i think i'll sit this one out. The storm of hate being whipped up against the entire church might be the only way our generation can free itself from the shackes of religion (be it organised or not). After which time we can finally begin to live in a rational, intelligent society.


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    #102
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Personally I'd look forward to them getting skewered by the Papal guard if they tried.


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    #103
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    People who accuse Hitchens of "furthering his own agenda" should be ashamed of their lives. That man has spent the greater part of tens year coming down strong on religion and openly criticising Islam (which Dawkins slightly shys from), and criticises theocracy, wherever it stands. He receives countless death threats from Islamists, not to mention Christian nutjobs and yet he continues to get on TV and put his face out there, and writes pieces, informing people just why religion, theocracy and our apathetic attitudes towards them are such a danger to the freedoms we take for granted.

    And yet people try to assume he does this to further his agenda? What does this mean exactly? He was already a wealthy and famous journalist long before his 2002 book, but he didn't have to look over his shoulder constantly then. So what is he doing it for? His personal reason is stated in the video below, I suppose he is taking advantage is 9/11 too? If there were more like him in this country, we would have every bishop, on trial.

    As someone said, you all bitch away about the CC in here, and when someone steps forward to take them on, you roll over to the other side. Pathetic.

    Hitchens: Why fight religion?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1aIuoCq4w


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    #104
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Dawkins and Hitchens, taking on the role of Reason Police. The thought brought a brief smile to my face :)

    As others have said, it is incredibly unfair of Hitchens, and Dawkins to piggyback on something only to get attention for themselves. They are effectively hijacking the attention from what it should be and dragging it towards new-atheism.

    I'm fairly sure such gimmicks will become tiresome.

    Its also a bit ill-advised to publish internationally that you plan to arrest someone isn't it? :pac:


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    #105
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Misread, sorry >.<


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    #106
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Its also a bit ill-advised to publish internationally that you plan to arrest someone isn't it? :pac:
    No, not in this case. If it was some drug dealer then yes it would be foolish, but it will be interesting to see what the pope does. e.g. will he cancel his trip like the Israeli politician? which would show he is running scared.


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    #107
    Rabies
    Registered Users Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Rabies


    wes wrote: »
    Also, I have 0 respect for Hitchens, who supported the Iraq war. The man supported a US war of aggression to look for something that didn't exists, and is no position to claim moral superiority over anyone. Dawkins should have ditched him and launched this on his own, as Hitchens drags him down.

    Do you not find it funny.

    He believed in something that turned out not to exist. The war was pointless but he still supports it. Won't admit to being wrong. But people will hold that against him still.


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    #108
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    The Queen will not be happy, herself and the government invited the Pope and now fundamentalists are trying to wreck it.

    Richard Dawkins is just odd though, if a country has an official religion, lets say Islam he would blame Islam if the country did something terrible, if it is a country with state Atheism, he says it has nothing to do with Atheism.
    He must have very greasy hands by buttering his bread on both sides.....

    In 2004 the Vatican state was given all the rights of the UN bar voting rights as it still holds observer status.

    Does Britain want to become a pariah state?

    It was Germany in the 1940's that last wanted to arrest the Pope, that time it was for hiding Jews but they decided it was a very bad idea....


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    #109
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Fundamentalist atheists ramming their atheism down our throats are as bad as any religious fundamentalists.

    Dawkins is odd.

    Who's ramming atheism down anyone's throat?


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    #110
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    rubadub wrote: »
    No, not in this case. If it was some drug dealer then yes it would be foolish, but it will be interesting to see what the pope does. e.g. will he cancel his trip like the Israeli politician? which would show he is running scared.

    He would have the British government telling him not to come as it would be really damaging for Britain but I say he would go and face any of the consequences, Britain would be in trouble with a lot of nations that have a high percentage of Catholics, the US would react negatively towards Britain.

    Let the British arrest the Pope, it will not be the Pope who will be in trouble with other nations.


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    #111
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Rabies wrote: »
    Do you not find it funny.

    He believed in something that turned out not to exist. The war was pointless but he still supports it. Won't admit to being wrong. But people will hold that against him still.


    Yes, it is pretty funny.


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    #112
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    Who's ramming atheism down anyone's throat?

    Who asks for Richard Dawkins to come over to Ireland to preach about atheism and how we theists are all terrible and support God knows what and we are all stupid?

    It is usually when he has a book out about how we are all deluded....is that not ramming atheism down people's throats?


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    #113
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Min wrote: »
    He would have the British government telling him not to come as it would be really damaging for Britain but I say he would go and face any of the consequences, Britain would be in trouble with a lot of nations that have a high percentage of Catholics, the US would react negatively towards Britain.

    Let the British arrest the Pope, it will not be the Pope who will be in trouble with other nations.
    I would back up the British if they arrested this aider and abbeter of paedophiles.


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    #114
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    People who accuse Hitchens of "furthering his own agenda" should be ashamed of their lives. That man has spent the greater part of tens year coming down strong on religion and openly criticising Islam (which Dawkins slightly shys from), and criticises theocracy, wherever it stands. He receives countless death threats from Islamists, not to mention Christian nutjobs and yet he continues to get on TV and put his face out there, and writes pieces, informing people just why religion, theocracy and our apathetic attitudes towards them are such a danger to the freedoms we take for granted.

    And yet people try to assume he does this to further his agenda? What does this mean exactly? He was already a wealthy and famous journalist long before his 2002 book, but he didn't have to look over his shoulder constantly then. So what is he doing it for? His personal reason is stated in the video below, I suppose he is taking advantage is 9/11 too? If there were more like him in this country, we would have every bishop, on trial.

    As someone said, you all bitch away about the CC in here, and when someone steps forward to take them on, you roll over to the other side. Pathetic.

    Hitchens: Why fight religion?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1aIuoCq4w

    Does Hitchens speak out against state atheism?


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    #115
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    Min wrote: »
    The Queen will not be happy, herself and the government invited the Pope and now fundamentalists are trying to wreck it.

    There are no fundamentalists involved in this. Having a fundamental belief does not make you a fundamentalist. Dawkins, nor Hitchens, is a fundamentalist. Resolutely opposing religious claptrap or illegal practices under the cover of a collar and cloak and refusing to yield does not make you a fundamentalist.
    Richard Dawkins is just odd though, if a country has an official religion, lets say Islam he would blame Islam if the country did something terrible, if it is a country with state Atheism, he says it has nothing to do with Atheism.
    He must have very greasy hands by buttering his bread on both sides.....

    There is no such thing as state atheism. Atheism has no structure. The absence of a religious state does not make it an atheist state. Atheism is not the opposite of Christianity. They are not two sides of the same coin.
    Does Britain want to become a pariah state?

    It wouldn't be a political decision, it would be a legal one. The law applies for Ratzinger just as it applies to everyone else. The law was changed in this country to create legal recourse when people in this country did the same things the Pope is accused of. In fact, these laws could be used against the Pope.

    It was Germany in the 1940's that last wanted to arrest the Pope, that time it was for hiding Jews but they decided it was a very bad idea....

    You're equating arresting Ratzinger for facilitating child abuse with arresting him for hiding away Jews during WWII?


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    #116
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    Min wrote: »
    Does Hitchens speak out against state atheism?
    Atheism isn't a religion...


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    #117
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Min wrote: »
    Who asks for Richard Dawkins to come over to Ireland to preach about atheism and how we theists are all terrible and support God knows what and we are all stupid?

    Er, the people who ask him to do interviews?
    It is usually when he has a book out about how we are all deluded....is that not ramming atheism down people's throats?

    No.

    You are free to read his book, and if you disagree with his arguments, you are free to keep your religion. That's what it's all about. But he doesn't (and I don't see why he should) treat religion or religious absurdities with kid gloves just because religion says it should be treated so.


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    #118
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    Atheism isn't a religion...

    It's fast becoming one


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    #119
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    blinding wrote: »
    I would back up the British if they arrested this aider and abbeter of paedophiles.

    Does it matter what you do, it is what countries like the US, European nations et cetera do.

    Lets just say, if you hate Britain, then hope the Pope is arrested.


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    #120
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Min wrote: »
    Who asks for Richard Dawkins to come over to Ireland to preach about atheism and how we theists are all terrible and support God knows what and we are all stupid?

    It is usually when he has a book out about how we are all deluded....is that not ramming atheism down people's throats?
    No it's holding an opinion and sharing it with others

    Shoving things down throats would be the purview of religious types
    Min wrote: »
    Does Hitchens speak out against state atheism?

    Why would he? Atheism is not a creed, it doesn't have a book that advocates killing, etc.

    Stalinism, however, does.
    My name is URL wrote: »
    It's fast becoming one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY


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    #121
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    My name is URL wrote: »
    It's fast becoming one


    No it's not. People are becoming more educated and abandoning their backward belief systems.


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