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Dawkins calls for pope's arrest

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    #32
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    The AH thread on this angers the blood...

    Doubt anything will come of this, but it's great to make people realise he is human and should be as accountable as anyone else.

    Really noticing an increase in people not taking crap from the church in the last year and it's great to see.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #33
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    I'll expect a retraction from those accusing him of generating a media frenzy, or carrying out a publicity stunt etc etc etc etc etc etc...
    That's a trifle unlikely :)

    Here's the Times article from above, together with Dawkins' own account of what actually happened:

    http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415


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    #34
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    robindch wrote: »
    That's a trifle unlikely :)

    Here's the Times article from above, together with Dawkins' own account of what actually happened:

    http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5415

    I quoted the same article on the previous page of this thread.


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    #35
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    I quoted the same article on the previous page of this thread.
    Yep, but you didn't include a link to the text -- primary sources are much appreciated hereabouts :)


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    #36
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,374 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think this will be counterproductive. dawkins should have talked to some of the abuse survivor groups and offered his aid for their attempt at this, if this is what he seeks, rather than doing this with hitchens; it will seem like a solo run, a way of getting the boot into the pope under the cover of the abuse issue.


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    #37
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i think this will be counterproductive. dawkins should have talked to some of the abuse survivor groups and offered his aid for their attempt at this, if this is what he seeks, rather than doing this with hitchens; it will seem like a solo run, a way of getting the boot into the pope under the cover of the abuse issue.

    Did you not read any of the above posts?


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    #38
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,374 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i missed those two posts.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    It raises some important questions. Hitchens has asked them; should the Pope be allowed travel freely? Shouldn't the EU and US Congress become involved in some form of sanctions?
    the crimes of the catholic church in the last few decades pale into insignificance with the crimes of people the US and UK administrations have been happy to rub shoulders with in the past. i don't expect any official action by those governments on this.


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    #39
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    Did you not read any of the above posts?

    Facts schmacts. it's Dawkins bashing time!!!!

    edit: is it time the thread title was changed?


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    #40
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i missed those two posts.


    the crimes of the catholic church in the last few decades pale into insignificance with the crimes of people the US and UK administrations have been happy to rub shoulders with in the past. i don't expect any official action by those governments on this.

    Just because things have been done wrong in the past does not mean it is acceptable to continue to do wrong now.


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    #41
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    The AH thread has now descended entirely into Dawkins bashing. There's just no point trying to fix that now. May as well try steering a car with no wheels on it. :D Oh AH.


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    #42
    ColmDawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭ColmDawson


    iUseVi wrote: »
    The AH thread has now descended entirely into Dawkins bashing. There's just no point trying to fix that now. May as well try steering a car with no wheels on it. :D Oh AH.

    I'm so used to reading about this stuff in nice, rational A&A that the thread in AH took me aback. So much nonsense...


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    #43
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,374 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Doctor DooM wrote: »
    Just because things have been done wrong in the past does not mean it is acceptable to continue to do wrong now.
    i was talking about expectations, not aspirations, just in case there's any confusion.

    but given the evidence available so far, international sanction levelled at the pope would be hysterical.


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    #44
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Facts schmacts. it's Dawkins bashing time!!!!

    Excellent.

    He's so arrogant, plus his accent is all posh and clever like, with his fancy book-lurnin' and big words.


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    #45
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    but given the evidence available so far, international sanction levelled at the pope would be hysterical.

    I agree. We all know it isn't actually going to materialise, it just would be hilarious if it did. :)


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    #46
    D4RK ONION
    Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    Has everyone seen the post of the day?

    Another amazing victory for After Hours. :rolleyes:

    On topic though, I think if nothing else, it's a great statement from people that some of us are not content with how this is being dealt with and we wont sit back and let this blow over. Fair play to them.


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    #47
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    D4RK ONION wrote: »
    Has everyone seen the post of the day?

    Another amazing victory for After Hours. :rolleyes:

    On topic though, I think if nothing else, it's a great statement from people that some of us are not content with how this is being dealt with and we wont sit back and let this blow over. Fair play to them.

    There's no emoticon that demonstrates my feelings about this. Maybe a *facepalm* will suffice.


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    #48
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    D4RK ONION wrote: »
    Has everyone seen the post of the day?

    Another amazing victory for After Hours. :rolleyes:

    On topic though, I think if nothing else, it's a great statement from people that some of us are not content with how this is being dealt with and we wont sit back and let this blow over. Fair play to them.

    I don't know how you deduce that.
    That poster is in favour of a legal action being taken against the pope.


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    #49
    D4RK ONION
    Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    dvpower wrote: »
    I don't know how you deduce that.
    That poster is in favour of a legal action being taken against the pope.
    How did I deduce what, that it was post of the day?

    Drop down menus>boards.ie>post of the day


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    #50
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Dear lord.



    (Pun intended)

    Not AH'es finest hour.


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    #51
    ColmDawson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭ColmDawson


    I am saddened by that.:(


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    #52
    branie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭branie


    Dawkins does see relgious indoctrination of children as a form of chld abuse


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    #53
    Erren Music
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Erren Music


    branie wrote: »
    Dawkins does see relgious indoctrination of children as a form of chld abuse

    And he is completely correct.


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    #54
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I always said After Hours was the Zeitgeist of the Irish people. So apparently, the only thing Irish people hate more than the Catholic Church right now is smug gits.


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    #55
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    (Just posted this in the After Hours thread. I strongly suggest you don't click that link if you haven't already been drawn in.)

    Richard Dawkins has written a very good article for the Guardian today, making a defence of his position.

    This analogy I'm quite fond of - and if anyone can dispute it, I'd very much like to see it:
    Suppose the British secretary of state for schools received, from a local education authority, a reliable report of a teacher tying up his pupils and raping them. Imagine that, instead of turning the matter over to the police, he had simply moved the offender from school to school, where he repeatedly raped other children. That would be bad enough. But now suppose that he justified his decision in terms such as these:

    "Although I regard the arguments in favour of prosecution, presented by the local education authority, as of grave significance, I nevertheless deem it necessary to consider the good of the government and the party, together with that of the offending teacher. And I am also unable to make light of the detriment that prosecuting the offender can provoke among voters, particularly regarding the young age of the offender."

    The analogy breaks down, only in that we aren't talking about a single offending priest, but many thousands, all over the world.


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    #56
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    (Just posted this in the After Hours thread. I strongly suggest you don't click that link if you haven't already been drawn in.)

    Richard Dawkins has written a very good article for the Guardian today, making a defence of his position.

    This analogy I'm quite fond of - and if anyone can dispute it, I'd very much like to see it:

    The guardian comments are almost a copy and paste job from AH.

    "How characteristic of Mr Dawkins to turn a traumatic and tragic affair into a farcical, juvenile side-show."

    "I agree with much of what Dawkins says here, but the problem with having him and Hitchens involved (as other commenters have pointed out in related threads) is it turns the issue into Christians v Atheists."

    etc. Although to be fair there are a few more people who can actually get past their petty hate of Dawkins and see the point. EDIT: actually a lot more, but still a lot of people who just don't get it.


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    #57
    sparkfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭sparkfire


    branie wrote: »
    Dawkins does see relgious indoctrination of children as a form of chld abuse

    What's the difference between religious 'indoctrination' and atheist 'indoctrination'?


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    #58
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    sparkfire wrote: »
    What's the difference between religious 'indoctrination' and atheist 'indoctrination'?

    Atheism is a lack of belief. How can someone be indoctrinated into a lack of belief. Is it even possible?
    If it is possible then every single child all over the world is being indoctrinated into thousands of non beliefs. I read my kid a bedside story with a dragon in it last night and just incase he was scared I told him dragons dont exist. Have I indoctrinated him in a-dragon-ism?:confused:


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    #59
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    sparkfire wrote: »
    What's the difference between religious 'indoctrination' and atheist 'indoctrination'?

    A child will always require an explanation for lots of things, including some pretty big questions like "where did I come from", "what will happen when I die", "who made the world?". It's very difficult to answer those questions for a child but it's child abuse to to indoctrinate them into the Catholic faith which is anti-human; filling them up with silly lies about Bronze Age gods, telling them there's a chance they'll burn in hell for all eternity, that the devil is out to get them, that they're inherently sinful (or "bad" as a child might understand it), telling them to dedicate themselves to a religion which is based on spectacularly inaccurate (even by historical standards) texts which describe a petty, sadistic and jealous God who routinely terrorizes civilians is nothing something I'd be prepared to inflict on any child in place of the truth.

    Not lying to your child is not the same as indoctrinating them. You're not indoctrinating them to believe in anything if you explain to them, in the best terms you can, what the verifiable truth is. Maybe the child will be quite happy wondering about what scientists will discover about the world in their lifetime. As for the life and death question, the life question is pretty easy to answer, the death one not as easy but you could probably get away with saying it'll be 100 years away and telling him/her "you can come to your own conclusions when you grow up".


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    #60
    pinksoir
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭pinksoir


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I always said After Hours was the Zeitgeist of the Irish people. So apparently, the only thing Irish people hate more than the Catholic Church right now is smug gits.
    That's a pretty grim outlook. Probably correct though...


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    #61
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    D4RK ONION wrote: »
    Has everyone seen the post of the day?

    Another amazing victory for After Hours. :rolleyes:

    On topic though, I think if nothing else, it's a great statement from people that some of us are not content with how this is being dealt with and we wont sit back and let this blow over. Fair play to them.

    Although not quite as thanked, this post by Dave! is the second most thanked post in the thread, so it's only as bleak as the integral of the two.


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