Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash

Yitzhak Rabin

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Any train tracks in the area ? there was the noise from a trains horn on the vid

I think that was the general alarm siren from the air base. They are extremely loud, and looking at google earth, the crash was very very close.

Brown Bomber

Russian officials say

"Polish pilots couldn't speak Russian"

Reality

"Arek spoke perfect Russian.

Ideally, both maintain correspondence in Polish, Russian and English.

April 7, when we flew there, no one reported any comments - added Colonel Stroiński.

"Kapitan Protasiuk znał to lotnisko i był do tego lotu przygotowany"

"Captain Protasiuk knew the airport was prepared for this flight"

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80708,7764434,Kpt__Protasiuk__doskonale_znal_jez__rosyjski_i_lotnisko.html&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhhXGlelILedzbzvdPjmV9hRJkd2ZQ

He practiced martial arts, he ran, including the Warsaw Marathon.

-

- As soon as I had a free moment he walked onto the mat or in the gym - a former officer tells the BOR He knew English and Russian.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80708,7767322,Kapitan_Dariusz_Michalowski.html&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhjgrah2EygOpbSpRxfocWuz3rb-ug

Russian officials say:

"Air traffic control offered the crew to land in Minsk, Belarus"

Reality

Belarus denied Russian version of Kaczynski's death
10/04/2010 15:39





Belarus denied statements made in Russia regarding the death of the President of Poland. The representative of the Belarusian Ministry of Transport and Communications told reporters that " the plane crew never made any request towards the Belarusian side regarding a landing " and during transit passage of aircraft with Lech Kaczynski onboard through the airspace of Belarus "no comments were made, the plane was flying at a appropriate height and according to established route"


Prior to this, press secretary of the Administration of Smolensk region of Russia Andrei Evseenko said that the plane with Lech Kaczynski was "trying to land three or four times in conditions of a heavy fog," and that "an air traffic controller offered the crew to land in Minsk, but the crew decided to land at the Smolensk airport".

http://eng.expertclub.ge/portal/cnid__4169/alias__Expertclub/lang__en/tabid__2546/default.aspx

Brown Bomber

yekahs wrote: »

I think that was the general alarm siren from the air base. They are extremely loud, and looking at google earth, the crash was very very close.

Assuming shots fired why do you think there may have been soliders/rescue workers before the alarrm?

Brown Bomber

Yitzhak Rabin

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Assuming shots fired why do you think there may have been soliders/rescue workers before the alarrm?

Personally I think it is likely that its was exploding rounds from the polish.

However, in the picture below, the two buildings circled in red could be guardroom locations(there are military vehicles parked there), AFAIK the area in blue is the crash site. Its very close to the crash site, so I imagine the commander sent a patrol to do a quick recce and radio back, and then he would have issued the general alarm.

The general alarm is an antiquated thing though, and is mainly only still in use in larges bases at war, so that everyone can stand too. Its a defensive measure, as most bases would have a scheme of defence and every soldier knows where to go and what part of the base they are defending if they hear it.

In the context of a domestic airbase, it must be raised in a case of an air disaster, and alerts nearby firecrews, ambulance and police.

All of the above is speculation mind you, as I really know very little about russian procedures, and am just going by what I know.

Brown Bomber

yekahs wrote: »

Personally I think it is likely that its was exploding rounds from the polish.

Note to self - no more Mr Sheen in the hand luggage

yekahs wrote: »

All of the above is speculation mind you, as I really know very little about russian procedures, and am just going by what I know.

Which is quite a lot. Thanks for the insight.

Yitzhak Rabin

Originally Posted by yekahs
Personally I think it is likely that its was exploding rounds from the polish.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Note to self - no more Mr Sheen in the hand luggage

Another mystery solved thanks to the CT forum

...and just to keep mysterious happy, the atlanteans invented Mr. Sheen:p

uprising2

Great work all, I read somewhere yesterday that there was "speculation" that in the area of the crash, lights were laid out to make it appear as though it was the runway. The person who was speculating said the lights could be seen in the video, I'll try dig it out and post a link, and also I'll get my mate to translate from the video without subtitles.

TalkieWalkie

Some new info...

Shocking news comes out that the guy who filmed the video minutes after the Polish air crash has been murdered. He was stabbed then rushed to hospital, where he has stabbed again by three men who came in and switched off his life support system.

Next up - Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy and Prince Charles all cancelled their visits to the funeral of President Kaczynski at Krakow. Merkel could have driven there from Berlin easily enough so what's going on?

The gun-shots videoed in the wood in Smolensk are said to be from a small calibre pistol. It is speculated that a military group went in and shot the survivors of the plane crash.

The Tupolev plane had its own terrain proximity warning device, so the pilot would have known he was in trouble when he was sent on the wrong descent line, but as I've found on pilot websites, it was tragically too late when he realised he had been duped into taking a lethal descent line into a depression.

The bodies and the personal belongings have all been removed from the crash site and sent to Moscow. Journalists were prevented from reaching the crash site.

A Russian journalist said that the radar equipment at Smolensk was dismantled after a visit by Donald Tusk and Putin. Another report says that the runway lamps were seen being replaced after the accident.

Their temporary removal would have made finding the runway impossible in one kilometre visibility.

The most likely explanation from all the known facts is that the pilot approaching the airport was given false information as to the real location of the runway, and was lured into a depression nearby on a wrong descent line.

There are also allegations being made that many of the people alleged to have died on the plane were not there at all, but were arrested in Poland and murdered and delivered to the crashed plane. The shots were necessary to ensure that no one survived the air crash.

This could not have happened without the cooperation of Donald Tusk, the Polish Prime Minister, working in cahoots with Putin. The Heads of State from around the world might have feared that more assassinations were planned at the funeral of President Kaczynski, or they simply realised the full shocking truth of what has happened and cannot attend a funeral organised by Kaczynski's murderers.

This was not a plane crash, but a coup d'état by the Polish Prime Minister Tusk supported by the Russians and the EU. Poland's maintaining of the Zloty will likely be terminated from here, and Poland's willingness to cooperate with the US over the placing of missiles and defences ended.

Central Europe is now effectively defenceless, and the front line to the East, that was once Poland, Czechoslovakia and Romania will become Germany and Austria once more. The greatest shock to me is not that these events have happened, but that there has not been one report in the British Press, or TV.

In a political debate, one of the leading candidates Clegg of the Liberal Democrats, attacks the Polish independent opposition as homophobes, anti-Semites and racists. The freedom of Europe including the freedom of Britain is once more at serious risk, but this time from its own internal political structures, as well as from foreign military threats. Danger bells should be ringing. A country that can do this, can go to war, and intends to do so.

Germany has become a defenceless weakling. Europe is now in serious military danger, and the Polish coup d'etat demonstrates that. Nick Clegg is on the inside of this latest threat to our freedom, just as was Blair. Their biggest mistake is not their vanity though that is indisputable in both cases, but their naivety and their tendency to trust the Russians, who are rearming rapidly while their internal economy disintegrates.

Danger. Danger. Danger. Danger. Danger.

The Polish Plane Crash is Europe's warning. This was a coup d'etat. From here we must move fast to defend ourselves. Yet dear old Clegg wants to help the Russians yet more by removing Trident. David Cameron, it's going to down to you.
Posted by tapestry at 12:53 PM

SOURCE
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2010/04/poles-smell-rat.html

Lab_Mouse

And that blogger doesnt givbe a link to where he got that information from.He also doesnt even give the chaps name that was murdered.

Why turn off the life support after they have killed him?Doesnt add up

uprising2

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Why turn off the life support after they have killed him?Doesnt add up

I dont think they waited to have him confirmed dead, and also its "Life Support", people can be brain dead and remain on life support, it pumps the heart.

It wouldnt make sense to stab him and leave it on, would it?:rolleyes:

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_support

namloc1980

uprising2 wrote: »

I dont think they waited to have him confirmed dead, and also its "Life Support", people can be brain dead and remain on life support, it pumps the heart.

It wouldnt make sense to stab him and leave it on, would it?:rolleyes:

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_support

Has this part of the story been confirmed yet i.e. the guy who filmed the crash site being stabbed, going to hospital in another country and then being stabbed to death by at least 3 assailants while in hospital?

uprising2

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Why turn off the life support after they have killed him?Doesnt add up

uprising2 wrote: »

I dont think they waited to have him confirmed dead, and also its "Life Support", people can be brain dead and remain on life support, it pumps the heart.

It wouldnt make sense to stab him and leave it on, would it?:rolleyes:

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_support

namloc1980 wrote: »

Has this part of the story been confirmed yet i.e. the guy who filmed the crash site being stabbed, going to hospital in another country and then being stabbed to death by at least 3 assailants while in hospital?

Not that I know of, but I was replying to the one point I quoted and why it would be a good idea to turn off a life support machine while hoping to end life with a knife, personally I've read conflicting reports whether it did or didn't happen. But nodody knows for certain either way.

Bodys are back in Poland so see what happens now.

Lab_Mouse

uprising2 wrote: »

It wouldnt make sense to stab him and leave it on, would it?:rolleyes:

Dont think it matters.Life support wont help if your bleeding to death from stab wounds.:rolleyes:

Yitzhak Rabin

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Dont think it matters.Life support wont help if your bleeding to death from stab wounds.:rolleyes:

Life support pumps your heart. If you stab someone who is still on a life support machine, then it is very messy. By turning it off, they were presumably trying to reduce the amount of blood spilling everywhere.

Lab_Mouse

yekahs wrote: »

Life support pumps your heart. If you stab someone who is still on a life support machine, then it is very messy. By turning it off, they were presumably trying to reduce the amount of blood spilling everywhere.

Why not just turn off the life support and have no mess.Cant see the point(imo)of stabbing someone,making a mess everywhere(leaving behind possibly palm/finger prints)when all it takes would involves powering off the life support.Just playing devils advocate.

Lab_Mouse

Also I think it was uprising that said it hasnt been confirmed yet so no-one can say for sure if it happened....

PirateShampoo

There still nothing to confirm if this guy even exsists.

Yitzhak Rabin

Oh no, I agree, I was just saying what I thought the killers rationale would be to turn off a LSM if they were going to stab him. I doubt they guy if he exists is related to the Polish crash, as by now, there would be some sort of connection established, other than CT blogs parroting the same story with no original source.

HipLady

Will you please mind your own country business!!!
Im Polish! There was no any conspiracy! Bad day, bad weather condition, human mistak! Thats it!
Instead spreading this bul**** You could just simply say sorry!
Im not saying that we loved our goverment and I dont think that you like yours either, but still, nobody wishd their be dead! and we are not so important to enyone thet some else would try to do it us either!
so please quit this topic coze is quite painfull!!!
thank you

TalkieWalkie

HipLady wrote: »

Will you please mind your own country business!!!
Im Polish! There was no any conspiracy! Bad day, bad weather condition, human mistak! Thats it!
Instead spreading this bul**** You could just simply say sorry!
Im not saying that we loved our goverment and I dont think that you like yours either, but still, nobody wishd their be dead! and we are not so important to enyone thet some else would try to do it us either!
so please quit this topic coze is quite painfull!!!
thank you

It's a discussion, there are many more painfull depending on your issue. I suggest you do not look at it if it is painfull.

Regarding minding our own country business.... Well thats a silly thing to say. Think about it. You are on an Irish Forum :eek:

Lab_Mouse

HipLady wrote: »

Will you please mind your own country business!!!
Im Polish! There was no any conspiracy! Bad day, bad weather condition, human mistak! Thats it!
Instead spreading this bul**** You could just simply say sorry!
Im not saying that we loved our goverment and I dont think that you like yours either, but still, nobody wishd their be dead! and we are not so important to enyone thet some else would try to do it us either!
so please quit this topic coze is quite painfull!!!
thank you

Dont read the damn thread then.Simples.

TalkieWalkie

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Simples.

Lol, compare the meerkat

patrickk

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

It's a discussion, there are many more painfull depending on your issue. I suggest you do not look at it if it is painfull.

Regarding minding our own business.... Well thats a silly thing to say. Think about it. You are on an Irish Forum :eek:

i sympathise completely with Polish but thats exactly what they want for us to brush it under carpet,itll never happen in my lifetime again too much unjust killings have happened now is time for expose of these cowards so called high up in society and they are just pack rottweilers

TalkieWalkie

patrickk wrote: »

i sympathise completely with Polish but thats exactly what they want for us to brush it under carpet,itll never happen in my lifetime again too much unjust killings have happened now is time for expose of these cowards so called high up in society and they are just pack rottweilers

Agreed. What the alternative ? hope they come up with a good enough cover story so that we can bury our heads in the sand again, and pretend all is well ?

namloc1980

Satellite image of the crash site



High resolution image here

namloc1980

Found an interesting image here:



High resolution version here.

The image shows how far offline the plane was on it's approach to the runway. There also appears to be a large piece of wreckage across the road from the main crash site (circled in red). Interesting.

PirateShampoo

That picture also explains how people where able to get to the crash site so fast.

PirateShampoo

patrickk wrote: »

i sympathise completely with Polish but thats exactly what they want for us to brush it under carpet,itll never happen in my lifetime again too much unjust killings have happened now is time for expose of these cowards so called high up in society and they are just pack rottweilers

And what exactly are we brushing under the carpet? How was this murder?

Brown Bomber

I know this isn't really so close

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=uk&u=http://www.mosgorteplo.com/uk/a7346.html&ei=dWjTS9nnOpeInQOD3JC4Dw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B4%2B%25D0%25B7%2B%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B6%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BC%2B%25D1%2583%2B%25D0%25BB%25D1%2596%25D0%25BA%25D0%25B0%25D1%2580%25D0%25BD%25D1%2596%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:sv-SE:official%26channel%3Ds

In Moscow, committed robbery at the Hospital

In Moscow, committed robbery attack at a hospital.

Three unknown entered the building to Cycling street.

Threatening with a knife, they tied the scotch guard , then uncovered the cash machine, reports Interfax with reference to sources in law enforcement bodies .

Offenders managed to escape.

The amount of damage is established.

Official confirmation of this information yet.

Прочитати подробиці

• Murder/Robbery
• Kiev/Moscow
• Hospital/Hospital
• 2 unidentified suspects/3 unidentified suspects
• Knife/Knife
• Escaped/Escaped
• Posted April 20/Posted April 19

Personally am highly dubious there was any murder at this stage, but could this "robbery" of a hospital be a cover for the "killing"?

Anyone else ever heard of a hospital being robbed?