How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame

flahavaj

inforfun wrote: »

A league where you can have Wolfgang Wolf managing Wolfsburg.....

starbelgrade wrote: »

Well, in England, a guy called Arsene manages Arsenal.

I am waiting for the day Stefan Kuntz takes over at Liverpool......:pac:

Bodhisopha

inforfun wrote: »

Definitely my favourite team in the premier league.
Not just for the way they play the game but also for the way they do their business.

For continually poaching children from smaller clubs denying them the chance to a larger fee when the players have matured more?

flahavaj

Bodhisopha wrote: »

For continually poaching children from smaller clubs denying them the chance to a larger fee when the players have matured more?

All big clubs sign young players under 16 for-paltry or often no-transfer fee.

Dempsey

Reading that article makes me want to move to Germany!

inforfun

Bodhisopha wrote: »

For continually poaching children from smaller clubs denying them the chance to a larger fee when the players have matured more?

Well, with "business" i meant spending money that the club actually generates, not spending from the wallet of sugardaddy.
And as for poaching kids, as Flavahaj already pointed out, all big teams do that. Even big teams in small leagues.
At least at Arsenal they get the chance to play when they are young.

Boskowski

Arguably Hoffenheim could be called the German sugardaddy example, although in Hoffenheims case it sounds like a good sugardaddy story (so far). Its the story of Mr. Dietmar Hopp, one of the co-founders of SAP software, deciding to give back to his boyhood club.
But rather than simply go nuts on the first team he invested steadily and over the years and put regional structures in place first. Like training grounds for kids, infrastructure etc. Eventually he also brought the first team along and they now find themselves in the Bundesliga after nearly 10 years of steady promotion and consolidation and promotion etc.
It IS a sugardaddy story no doubt and has attracted envy and frustration from local rivals like Stuttgart claiming that its all so artificial and that Hoffenheim has no real background for Bundesliga football with a population of 5000 or so. However the town/village of Hoffenheim is located in a pretty wealthy region with high population density and has plenty of local followers to fill their brand-new 30,000 seater also build by Mr. Hopp.

I rather like them

http://www.achtzehn99.de
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSG_1899_Hoffenheim

CSF

Stuff like this makes you realise all the more how soulless and boring the Premiership really is.

OPENROAD

OPENROAD wrote: »

Stewards tend to turn a blind eye to occasional standing in my expereince especially when the action is in the penalty area, it is only if it is persistent that they tend to step in which as far as I know by law they have to.

I have never sat down once during play while in the KOP. Everybody stands for the whole game.

adamski8

starbelgrade wrote: »

I was born in Manchester, so despite the thanks whoring, your post = fail.

Well it was only meant in jest
Just thought it was funny if you were one of the 99% of people in this forum who were irish and supported english teams to be dismissing the idea of supporting a german team. Guess i hit the 1%.
P.S. I have no problem with people supporting whoever the hell they feel like.

OPENROAD

CSF wrote: »

Stuff like this makes you realise all the more how soulless and boring the Premiership really is.

In your opinion

CSF

Fair enough, the boring thing is open to personal taste, but the soulless thing is as close to fact as you can possibly get without sticking fact at the end of your statement. FACT.

OPENROAD

CSF wrote: »

Fair enough, the boring thing is open to personal taste, but the soulless thing is as close to fact as you can possibly get without sticking fact at the end of your statement. FACT.

Would disagree with the souless bit, in my experience anyway, agreed you have far less swearing etc.. but that is not a bad thing, I still find the atmosphere is great

parker kent

CSF wrote: »

Fair enough, the boring thing is open to personal taste, but the soulless thing is as close to fact as you can possibly get without sticking fact at the end of your statement. FACT.

Once you hear the word brand or project used in relation to football, you know that are in soul free territory! Garry Cook please stand up....

CSF

I'd argue that most of the big clubs have completely lost track of the culture and roots that make the clubs so special to the local supporters. Arab investors, football matches watched via 3D glasses, and with more talk about the business dealings (not even the transfer dealings) of the top clubs (probably barring Tottenham and Arsenal) than the football, I think its safe to say that English football isn't the cultural landmark for the local cities and towns that it once was.

starbelgrade

adamski8 wrote: »

Well it was only meant in jest
Just thought it was funny if you were one of the 99% of people in this forum who were irish and supported english teams to be dismissing the idea of supporting a german team. Guess i hit the 1%.
P.S. I have no problem with people supporting whoever the hell they feel like.

I don't think anyone would dismiss the idea of supporting a German team, or any other team in the world, but generally there has to be a reason for it. Most Irish people support English teams because they grew up watching Match of the Day.

Most Irish football supporters also support their local team, because they went to / go to their matches & the Irish team, of course. Then there are other teams people pick for different reasons, like Celtic, because of the Irish links.

I support Man U, Bohs (coz I grew up beside Dalymount), Ireland & Sporting Gijon (coz I lived a few years in Asturias).

I've no doubt that the German league is cool, but I'm not going to start supporting Bayern Munich just because their ticket prices are low & you can get a nice beer at the stadium.

Though if I move to Munich, maybe I might add them to my list.

GLaDOS

starbelgrade wrote: »

Most Irish football supporters also support their local team

In my experience this simply isn't the case

starbelgrade

ScienceNerd wrote: »

In my experience this simply isn't the case

I'd say a lot did when they were younger, but the LOI is a joke - I don't go as many games as I used to because the ticket prices are ridiculous & the FAI constantly p*ss me off.

Bundesliga games are cheaper & the league is run a lot better.

loveissucide

As regards the idea of Premiership as soulless?It's not reached Serie A levels yet bar the Top 4, there's still plenty of life in the provincial sides.

CiaranC

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'd say a lot did when they were younger

No, they didnt. Thats a large part of the problem.

parker kent

starbelgrade wrote: »

I've no doubt that the German league is cool, but I'm not going to start supporting Bayern Munich just because their ticket prices are low & you can get a nice beer at the stadium.

When I posted that article I was thinking "wouldn't it be great if everywhere could be like that" instead of "lets all support German teams now!". It would be great if most leagues had a similar set up whether it be League of Ireland, Premiership or La Liga. It just seems like the element of fun is being taken away from the sport so it is nice to see somewhere that still has it.

Catenaccio!

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Pity about the quality of the football. Teams can win the league and come no where the following year

German league is far more exciting to watch than the Premier League fwiw (presuming you're comparing).

Oat23

Catenaccio! wrote: »

German league is far more exciting to watch than the Premier League fwiw (presuming you're comparing).

Bundesliga
2009/2010 current top 4:
Bayern
Schalke
Leverkusen
Dortmund

2008/2009 top 4:
Wolfsburg
Bayern
Stuttgart
Hertha

2007/2008 top 4:
Bayern
Bremen
Schalke
Hamburg

Premier League
2009/2010 current top 4:
Chelsea
Manchester United
Arsenal
Manchester City

2008/2009 top 4:
Manchester United
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal

2007/2008 top 4:
Manchester United
Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool

The problem I have with following other leagues is that I don't have the same interest as with the premier league, obviously I would rather watch Liverpool play than anyone else but most of the excitement for me anyway with watching other premier league teams play is that I will usually have a dislike for one of the teams so will have reason to support the other team.

For instance shouting for who ever manchester united are playing against being the main one but almost any premier league game I will have some level of dislike for one of the teams or want a certain result for pool's sake.

I don't get the same enjoyment sitting down and watching a game for the sake of it (be it Spanish, Italian, German) no matter how good the football is if I don't have some reason to want one team to win.

Boskowski

Hijackin this thread for a question that's been bothering me for some time.

Why are the Irish club football leagues as weak as they are? Scotlands population isn't much bigger than irelands and their league has some sort of standing. Other small countries have produced European cup winners. But irelands leagues just seem like a small insignicant appendix to the epl. Feeding their talents into it but not allowed to participate.
But yet Irish people are passionate about football. There is significant revenue in apparel, pay-tv, travelling to matches etc. But all this is sucked up by the epl.

So what's the reason? Wherit'dit it all go wrong with Irish club soccer? Any chance of ever breaking the vicious circle?

dreamers75

Boskowski wrote: »

Hijackin this thread for a question that's been bothering me for some time.

Why are the Irish club football leagues as weak as they are? Scotlands population isn't much bigger than irelands and their league has some sort of standing. Other small countries have produced European cup winners. But irelands leagues just seem like a small insignicant appendix to the epl. Feeding their talents into it but not allowed to participate.
But yet Irish people are passionate about football. There is significant revenue in apparel, pay-tv, travelling to matches etc. But all this is sucked up by the epl.

So what's the reason? Wherit'dit it all go wrong with Irish club soccer? Any chance of ever breaking the vicious circle?

Stupid question but i`ll bite. St Pats have more Ex players playing in the premier league than any scottish or championship side.

So yeah where did it all go wrong for them. We doing fine i reckon we have 2 atm who will be PL players one day. Rovers took one so could have been 3.


been to many german stadiums, once with pats and a few times with VFL and **** me. They cater to our needs and provide. The police are low key but there and you know it. There does be some problems with fans tbh they prepare for it more so. The train thing with free travel is there to get away fans out of the ****ing area fast. Handy for me tho on a few occasions.

On the way into any ground in germany you can buy a hotdog and a beer enjoy it with away fans then go in. Oddly the same as in ireland for games

OPENROAD

dreamers75 wrote: »

On the way into any ground in germany you can buy a hotdog and a beer enjoy it with away fans then go in. Oddly the same as in ireland for games

Do Irish LOI club fans mix in the same pub before matches?

dreamers75

OPENROAD wrote: »

Do Irish LOI club fans mix in the same pub before matches?

they do in Mc Dowells/taveys

Paparazzo

Boskowski wrote: »

Hijackin this thread for a question that's been bothering me for some time.

Why are the Irish club football leagues as weak as they are? Scotlands population isn't much bigger than irelands and their league has some sort of standing. Other small countries have produced European cup winners. But irelands leagues just seem like a small insignicant appendix to the epl. Feeding their talents into it but not allowed to participate.
But yet Irish people are passionate about football. There is significant revenue in apparel, pay-tv, travelling to matches etc. But all this is sucked up by the epl.

So what's the reason? Wherit'dit it all go wrong with Irish club soccer? Any chance of ever breaking the vicious circle?

There was a book out a few years ago called "Who Stole Our Game?", think they came to the conclusion that LoI attendences dropped significently when English football started to be shown regularly on TV over here.

OPENROAD wrote: »

Do Irish LOI club fans mix in the same pub before matches?

Yes sometimes, it can depend on the teams. Probably not a good idea to walk into a pub packed with Bohs fans with a Rovers jersey. Some idiots might have a problem with it.

OPENROAD

dreamers75 wrote: »

they do in Mc Dowells/taveys

In general though, do you have people of different teams wearing there team colours in the same pub before and after games?

dreamers75

OPENROAD wrote: »

In general though, do you have people of different teams wearing there team colours in the same pub before and after games?

I have never had a problem wearing a pats jersey in any LOI clubs local pubs or stadium bars, of course there are idiots but tbh anyone who goes to a game and stays after for a pint is pretty much one and the same. We either WLD.

Le King

I refuse to watch LoI anymore after what happened to Kildare County FC. The league is a disgrace. They do nothing for the fans. No wonder it's in massive decline. I know a lot of KC fans that feel the same.

dsmythy

OPENROAD wrote: »

Do Irish LOI club fans mix in the same pub before matches?

Yes, often.

OPENROAD

dsmythy wrote: »

Yes, often.

unless it is Bohs and Rovers?

dreamers75

Osu wrote: »

I refuse to watch LoI anymore after what happened to Kildare County FC. The league is a disgrace. They do nothing for the fans. No wonder it's in massive decline. I know a lot of KC fans that feel the same.

jaysis how is our leage in decline when we beat more teams in europe than scotland and wales combined and have more players playing in the PL* than any other club in those leagues. Seriously what are we doing wrong here ?


*St Pats that is

CSF

Boskowski wrote: »

Hijackin this thread for a question that's been bothering me for some time.

Why are the Irish club football leagues as weak as they are? Scotlands population isn't much bigger than irelands and their league has some sort of standing. Other small countries have produced European cup winners. But irelands leagues just seem like a small insignicant appendix to the epl. Feeding their talents into it but not allowed to participate.
But yet Irish people are passionate about football. There is significant revenue in apparel, pay-tv, travelling to matches etc. But all this is sucked up by the epl.

So what's the reason? Wherit'dit it all go wrong with Irish club soccer? Any chance of ever breaking the vicious circle?

To be honest its not the league, its the population, the Irish people. There are many problems with the league, of that I have no doubt. Aside from the problem of the FAI and their ineptitude (which is shared in most Football Associations to be fair) all the other problems in the league are directly proportionate to the lack of interest among Irish people in attending live football regularly that isn't of CL standard.

CSF

Osu wrote: »

I refuse to watch LoI anymore after what happened to Kildare County FC. The league is a disgrace. They do nothing for the fans. No wonder it's in massive decline. I know a lot of KC fans that feel the same.

What exactly happened Kildare County? Are you referring to the lack of attempts by the FAI to save the club? Was that the issue? Bear in mind that I don't know the specifics of why the club went bust, but its pretty obvious the fact that the club really had under 100 regular supporters was the major factor. How can the league do anything to make the club sustainable? With Cork, Derry and others before it was feasible to get rid of terrible owners, and there are the ingredients of a club that could sustain itself in the future, with Kildare that problem couldn't really be resolved. You cannot run a club in the league on the level of home support that Kildare had, and its likely that the 2 First Division clubs are going to learn that soon. Its a horrible situation I agree, but the fact remains that the people of Kildare just have no real interest in live football, unless Man United or Barcelona moved in next door.