Motorists encouraged to buy electric

Victor

While this will hopefully do something for local air pollution, is it merely replacing one problem with another?

There will still be the same amount of congestion, the electricity needs to be generated somehow (mostly gas in Ireland's case) and the amount of material used in making the car is about the same, although there may be some shift in what materials are used.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0412/cars.html

Motorists encouraged to buy electric
Monday, 12 April 2010 07:45

Financial incentives to encourage motorists to purchase electric cars are expected to be unveiled today.

The details come as some of the electric vehicles that will soon hit the Irish market are showcased.

The Government wants Ireland to become an effective test site for electric cars, with the goal that 10% of all vehicles here run on electricity by 2020.

Last year the Government signed a strategic deal with Nissan Renault and this morning, Renault will showcase its new electric vehicle, the Fluence.

The ESB has already committed to installing 1,500 charging points across the country before the end of next year.

Today Energy Minister Eamon Ryan is expected to announce financial incentives that will help offset the cost of the expensive electric batteries.

Electric vehicles are far cheaper to run than their petrol or diesel equivalents. Motorists will be keen to find out whether Government grants and no VRT makes the purchase price competitive too.

Sponge Bob

Tht green fanny Eamon Ryan is diverting more of his communications budget into stupid green ideas I see.

The current generation of electric cars cannot make it to Galway and back to Dublin on a charge, they should not incentivise any electric car with a sub 300 mile range and that is that.

Won't stop Ryan babbling crap about it and wasting money though, or Cuffe

Sponge Bob

Renault are about to release a 'range' of electric cars next year. They will have a range of 160km on average thanks to an "evolution" . It was 100km . Ryan has been heard babbling Ryan style about how wonderful they are.

Galway - Dublin is 200km FFS The shaggin renaults will not be able to do any inter city journey in Ireland and starting in Dublin bar maybe Dublin - Waterford and then they will probably be stranded down there

old_aussie

Sooner we go electric and get rid of the dependancy on the middle east the better.

markpb

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The current generation of electric cars cannot make it to Galway and back to Dublin on a charge, they should not incentivise any electric car with a sub 300 mile range and that is that.

For plenty of people, travelling across the country isn't a necessity.

Sponge Bob

These things have fuk all range. They will have fuk all range for another 8-10 years minimum.

We SHOULD be incentivising the creation of CHARGING POINTS at this time. If I get a grant to put a charging point in my yard I should have it connected to BB 24/7 and let people book a charging slot in it online and use that. If it generates its own electricity ( eg wind) it should get priority in the booking system when someone is looking for a charging slot.

No car parks should be allowed minus charging points, you should be able to book a car park and charging slot BOTH , online. Every time you leave the house you will be planning the next charge for the damn think anyway.

That is where the money needs to be spent. But Ryan is much too thick to conceive of a charging architecture matrix and too busy babbling his meaningless green sh1te to care.

Charging the feckin things with their 120km real world ranges and their 160km nominals is the key, once people know they wont be caught short they will adopt the things...up to a point anyway.

JHMEG

Plenty of people never need to go to Galway. These would be great for urban use and commuting. Especially since they can be charged off night rate, or better again solar on your own roof.

the_syco

After having watched "Who Killed the Electric Car", I'm wondering how long this will last? Hopefully it takes off nicely.

Also, I'm hoping GM start making electric cars, so that they can use the advanced battery technology that they own.

foggy_lad

other factors will lead to your range being decreased significantly such as the many hills in ireland and winds working against you and also even carrying something as simple as a bit of luggage for a weekend away can decrease your range enough that you may be staying in a thomastown B&B rather than a waterford hotel!

loyatemu

don't we generate a lot of our power using oil, coal and peat? How much CO2 are we really saving with this? (I'm not channeling J Clarkson here, I genuinely don't know the answers).

ocokev

old_aussie wrote: »

Sooner we go electric and get rid of the dependancy on the middle east the better.

Most of our electricity is generated by oil burning electric power stations, anyway so charging electric cars from the national grid is still going to use vasts amounts of oil.
We need to build a proper neuclear power infrastructure to decrease our carbon emmisions, and if there is going to be a serious upturn in electric cars and trains etc then we need to stop fooling ourselves by continuing to using oil to generate electricity.

Sponge Bob

Most of our generation capacity is Hydrocarbon and will be for the next 20 years given how policy is formulated here ( it is not ) . There has been a shift from oil to gas in recent years, that is all.

Wind is too intermittent to be considered 'capacity' . We can go from 1000Mw at best to 20Mw at worst with the exact same wind plant.

Nor do we allow "spillover" where surplus electricity is fed back to the grid from your solar ( if available obviously ). We need a very sophisticated approach to charging points but the greens are too thick to come up with it and refuse to admit the problem because they are green.

EG

1. Cars have feck all range, if you go to Connemara for the weekend you will need a charge or two enroute and while there .

2. As there are feck all charging points in Connemara there should be a bidding system for slots on the charger.

3. Based on the market price highest bidder gets the slot, the rest are dynamically queued. If they increase their bids they get bumped up. How do you tell the others they are outbid, there is bugger all mobile infrastructure in Connemara and data prices are too high on mobile networks

4. If charging points in Connemara are a nice earner because of bid prices for a slot then that incentivises the installation of more capacity based on a MARKET for them.

5. A car will charge in 3-4 hours but the night rate lasts 8-10 hours, should one car be allowed to tie it up all night when it could charge 3 cars ?? Should 3 cars park and plug in and bid for these night slots and be charged in sequence. When should the slots be allocated, by 8pm or 10pm ?? Should dynamic queuing based on bids for NIGHT slots have a cutoff of 7pm so that people can plan ???

6. Should there be a rebate on the meter standing charge for night time electricity if you have a car charging station AND are on the bidding and queing national grid matrix ??

7. What about insurance and liability, should there be a legal exemption from house insurance for cars on your charger BUT also on your property albeit ONLY to be charged ??

8. Should you have to pay coproration tax or income tax on any windfall profit, you could make a lot of profit if you had a charger during that feshtival in July ???


etc etc etc etc

None of this has been considered by our thicko greens and yet it is all most logical

ocokev

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Most of our generation capacity is Hydrocarbon and will be for the next 20 years given how policy is formulated here ( it is not ) . There has been a shift from oil to gas in recent years, that is all.

Wind is too intermittent to be considered 'capacity' . We can go from 1000Mw at best to 20Mw at worst with the exact same wind plant.

Nor do we allow "spillover" where surplus electricity is fed back to the grid from your solar ( if available obviously ). We need a very sophisticated approach to charging points but the greens are too thick to come up with it and refuse to admit the problem because they are green.

EG

1. Cars have feck all range, if you go to Connemara for the weekend you will need a charge or two enroute and while there .

2. As there are feck all charging points in Connemara there should be a bidding system for slots on the charger.

3. Based on the market price highest bidder gets the slot, the rest are dynamically queued. If they increase their bids they get bumped up.

4. If charging points in Connemara are a nice earner because of bid prices for a slot then that incentivises the installation of more capacity based on a MARKET for them.

5. A car will charge in 3-4 hours but the night rate lasts 8-10 hours, should one car be allowed to tie it up all night when it could charge 3 cars ?? Should 3 cars park and plug in and bid for these night slots and be charged in sequence. When should the slots be allocated, by 8pm or 10pm ?? Should dynamic queing based on bids have a cutoff of 7pm ???

6. Should there be a rebate on the meter standing charge for night time electricity if you have a car charging station ??

7. What about insurance and liability, should there be a legal exemption from house insurance ??


etc etc etc etc

None of this has been considered by our thicko greens

We can just wait to see what England do and copy them!

Sponge Bob

ocokev wrote: »

We can just wait to see what England do and copy them!

England allows spillover and we never copied that

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nor do we allow "spillover" where surplus electricity is fed back to the

We do, for just over a year now.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Cars have feck all range, if you go to Connemara for the weekend you will need a charge or two enroute and while there .

Very simple solution: don't travel to barren or remote places then.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

As there are feck all charging points in Connemara there should be a bidding system for slots on the charger.

Am I missing something about Connemara?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

there is bugger all mobile infrastructure in Connemara

I must go to Connemara. Feels like I'm missing somthing.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If charging points in Connemara

Do GoBus serve Connemara? What time's the next bus?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A car will charge in 3-4 hours but the night rate lasts 8-10 hours, should one car be allowed to tie it up all night when it could charge 3 cars ??

Car, like its owners, is usually at home at night.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Should there be a rebate on the meter standing charge for night time electricity if you have a car charging station ??

You're already getting half price electricity.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

None of this has been considered by our thicko greens

I don't think Connemara is high on their agenda.

Sponge Bob

JHMEG wrote: »

I don't think Connemara is high on their agenda.

It is, but only for shaggin bicycle safaris

This is allegedly a national plan but rural Ireland is meant to subsidise this technology in urban areas where the green TDs are. And yet the greatest opportunity for green charging is in the windy west.

Dublin charging will be carbon based Not green at all .

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This is allegedly a national plan but rural Ireland is meant to subsidise this technology in urban areas where the green TDs are. And yet the greatest opportunity for green charging is in the windy west.

No, I think you'll find it's the other way around. There are more tax payers in urban areas, who subsidise roads, schools, and services in general in rural areas.

RichieO

When you think of the first cars, with a guy walking in front waving a flag, then look at where we are now and bear in mind the American guzzlers of the last 50 years, some were only getting a few mpg, only their massive fuel tanks (filled with dirt cheap petrol) allowed them to make a decent run...
Compare this to where we are now, with some cars getting 50 - 60 mpg and more.
Now imagine the EV with a similar line of evolution, you can begin to see the potential, but they need to be there in large numbers and many different types, then you will see them evolve into what is needed/demanded...

The bigger the bucket of milk, the more cream rises...

Sponge Bob

JHMEG wrote: »

No, I think you'll find it's the other way around. There are more tax payers in urban areas, who subsidise roads, schools, and services in general in rural areas.

We would soon see how smart and green Ryan was if Wickila started to charge for ITS water that Dublin takes off it

These vehicles are clearly only limitedly fit for purpose in urban areas like Dublin and it follows that the whole electric car scam is an urban subsidy unsubtly cloaked as a green initiative.

More smart green drivel from Eamon Ryan. The batteries and the waste will obviously be dumped in rural areas, of course, same as always .

gpjordanf1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Most of our generation capacity is Hydrocarbon and will be for the next 20 years given how policy is formulated here ( it is not ) . There has been a shift from oil to gas in recent years, that is all.

Wind is too intermittent to be considered 'capacity' . We can go from 1000Mw at best to 20Mw at worst with the exact same wind plant.

Please have a look at www.spiritofireland.org all of the above has been rectified very simply and will be coming soon, fingers crossed.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nor do we allow "spillover" where surplus electricity is fed back to the grid from your solar ( if available obviously ). We need a very sophisticated approach to charging points but the greens are too thick to come up with it and refuse to admit the problem because they are green.

Yes we do I actually read it here last year, dont have a link but I'm sure you can search.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

1. Cars have feck all range, if you go to Connemara for the weekend you will need a charge or two enroute and while there .

I presume you will be there longer than 5 minutes? Can you not charge it up?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

2. As there are feck all charging points in Connemara there should be a bidding system for slots on the charger.

ESB to provide 1500 charge points by end of year nationwide

Sponge Bob wrote: »

3. Based on the market price highest bidder gets the slot, the rest are dynamically queued. If they increase their bids they get bumped up. How do you tell the others they are outbid, there is bugger all mobile infrastructure in Connemara and data prices are too high on mobile networks

What?

Sponge Bob wrote: »

4. If charging points in Connemara are a nice earner because of bid prices for a slot then that incentivises the installation of more capacity based on a MARKET for them.

5. A car will charge in 3-4 hours but the night rate lasts 8-10 hours, should one car be allowed to tie it up all night when it could charge 3 cars ?? Should 3 cars park and plug in and bid for these night slots and be charged in sequence. When should the slots be allocated, by 8pm or 10pm ?? Should dynamic queuing based on bids for NIGHT slots have a cutoff of 7pm so that people can plan ???

Also the ESB will put in a home charge point for the first customers to avail of these cars. Why would you queue to charge your car overnight? Do you do the same with your phone?

Also alot of these cars will be capable of a 80% charge from these ESB charge points in 10 minutes or less. So how is that any different to pulling in to a petrol station filling up your car, going into shop, get a sambo, paper coffee and pay and away you go. There isn't much in it?

Anyway I'm looking forward to this new tech, in a few yearswe'll wonder what all the fuss was about. Here's hoping anway?

Sponge Bob

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Also the ESB will put in a home charge point for the first customers to avail of these cars. Why would you queue to charge your car overnight? Do you do the same with your phone?

Also alot of these cars will be capable of a 80% charge from these ESB charge points in 10 minutes or less.

Now that is different. If they can be topped up usefully in 10 minutes they start to make sense. Yet I believe this is impossible. I also believe that chargers will be incompatible between cars save for SLOW charging over many hours and will be car specific for fast or fast(ish) like mobile chargers are and always have been.

The Renault Fluence will allow an ultra quick charging option. You will swap a FULLY CHARGED battery INTO the car and leave the old one behind at the charging point. They call this "Quickdrop".

This "Quickdrop" is what Ryan is announcing today, it is pure bollox. They weight a ton FFS and require a contraption UNDER the car for removal and insertion Look at this video, and LAUGH!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Azrt_wUkc

I am very sceptical that anyone will be cable to rapidly charge to 80% in any less than 1 to 3 hours and a full charge will take 8-10 hours.

markpb

Sponge Bob wrote: »

These vehicles are clearly only limitedly fit for purpose in urban areas like Dublin and it follows that the whole electric car scam is an urban subsidy unsubtly cloaked as a green initiative.

Perhaps the reason it will have an urban bias is because it's easy to provide the infrastructure there? One charging station in Dublin will serve tends of thousands of people. One charging station in Connemara will serve a few hundred. Also there are more cars and more pollution in an urban environment so changing some of them to electric will have a bigger impact (assuming reducing pollution is the goal). Do you think car based airbourne pollution is a big problem in Connemara?

bk

The ironic thing is that if we had a high quality broadband network to every home in Ireland and incentivised companies to let their employees work from home (where possible), starting with the civil servants, we would vastly reduce pollution more then by this sham.

Sponge Bob

markpb wrote: »

Perhaps the reason it will have an urban bias is because it's easy to provide the infrastructure there? One charging station in Dublin will serve tends of thousands of people. One charging station in Connemara will serve a few hundred. Also there are more cars and more pollution in an urban environment so changing some of them to electric will have a bigger impact (assuming reducing pollution is the goal). Do you think car based airbourne pollution is a big problem in Connemara?

You know Mark that all makes perfect sense. Electric cars will be an urban technology for short runs for at least the next 10 years. They will be utterly impractical in rural areas given the charging/range problems.

I merely pointed out these problems, what I like to call the "Connemara Conundrum" . How does one get there and get around there and get back to D4 ina weekend. The answer is one does not and will not. These are uttterly impractical outside the M50.

Therefore they should always be presented as an urban initiative and the subsidies will always be to urban areas. I do not disagree with that but I do insist that some honesty prevails on teh matter

Once the range and charging problems are substantially licked there will be no further subsidies, charging will become a commodity like petrol pumps. Ireland is a small country, 400km from one end to the other. Once range doubles to 300km for the same battery/weight ratio it will be game on.

Our greens, however, are much too thick to make them a commuter belt prospect never mind a rural or mixed use prospect. The best thing for commuters, like BK said, is to stay at home until the rush hour is over and optimally cruise to work on empty roads. This green figleaf is to allow d4 mammies to pretend to be green on school runs, that is all.

But a NATIONAL initiative this most certainly is not. For NATIONAL use you need a sophisticated mechanism for predicting and obtaining your next charge or indeed fractional charge and Ryan has done nothing as communications minister to deliver the communications that would underpin such a predictive mechanism.

Logically the car would know where the next charge will be and when and would be told that in real time and brought to it on autopilot by GPS. It would be a dynamic auction system, you would pay a premium for convenience and speed and for the guarantee of a charging slot at peak periods. The rest of the time you would drive up and plug in.

Ryan does not care anyway, his political career is over but sadly we still have to listen to his babbling green irrelevant sh1te until he slopes off the stage

The sooner the better

gpjordanf1

bk wrote: »

The ironic thing is that if we had a high quality broadband network to every home in Ireland and incentivised companies to let their employees work from home (where possible),we would vastly reduce pollution more

Yes I completely agree with this, a great Idea. A tiny country like this should have broadband in every home, and by extension this tiny country should be easily served by electric vehicles. And as such we should become market leaders in research in this area along with green energy research. What we have on our door steps is amazing, wind, sea & solar power should be utilized for all our needs and for export of energy too.

bk wrote: »

starting with the civil servants

no, no, no, no, This is so wrong I dont know where to start with that one

gpjordanf1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You know Mark that all makes perfect sense. Electric cars will be an urban technology for short runs for at least the next 10 years.

Case closed ladies & gentlemen, CASE CLOSED!

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/

Sponge Bob

I well remember the Top Gear Tesla test GPJ , the range was ...shall we say...unproven ...unless you are an Irish green that is where the range does not matter as it potters over and back across the grand canal.

Jeremy really wanted that car to deliver, you can see that clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DfHyGD7_pM

gpjordanf1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I well remember the Top Gear Tesla test GPJ , the range was ...shall we say...unproven ...unless you are an Irish green that is where the range does not matter as it potters over and back across the grand canal.

Jeremy really wanted that car to deliver, you can see that clearly.

Hey Sponge Bob

It was fun watching that again, whats that a couple of years back? Also thats the roadster prototype a pure sports car to get the media attention. This new TeslaS is the money maker, just look at the figures. I'll be buying one for sure.

You asked for a quick charging, cross country mileage, beautiful family car and here it is, the Tesla S. Welcome to the future of motoring.

Tesla S : "With a range up to 300 miles and 45-minute QuickCharge, the Model S can carry five adults and two children in quiet comfort – and you can charge it from any outlet, without ever stopping for gas. World’s first mass-produced electric vehicle offers performance, efficiency and unrivaled utility for a base price of $49,900*, making it the only car you’ll ever need."

And Clarkson and Co promote battery cars, ha ha, never mate, as he said himself its snowing in hell!

Funny though!

When is this announcement anyway?

dynamick

Victor wrote: »

While this will hopefully do something for local air pollution, is it merely replacing one problem with another?

Less air pollution in cities - comes out instead in rural power stations where less people breathe it in. Less noise pollution. Some electricity is generated by renewables and more will be in future. Battery charging suits the unpredictable supply from renewable sources.

Battery swapping is not so ludicrous. The device doesn't look any more complicated than a carwash.

Top Gear staged the breakdown of the Tesla to suit their agenda. They later admitted that the battery was not flat but that they pushed the car to show what would happen if the car had run out of charge.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/24/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-tesla-electric-car

gpjordanf1

dynamick wrote: »

Less air pollution in cities - comes out instead in rural power stations where less people breathe it in. Less noise pollution. Some electricity is generated by renewables and more will be in future. Battery charging suits the unpredictable supply from renewable sources.

Battery swapping is not so ludicrous. The device doesn't look any more complicated than a carwash.

Top Gear staged the breakdown of the Tesla to suit their agenda. They later admitted that the battery was not flat but that they pushed the car to show what would happen if the car had run out of charge.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/24/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-tesla-electric-car

Thanks DynaMick

I Had my suspicions and Tesla really showed them up in that article and definetley came out on top. Love the way the logged into the car and said, sorry guys ye didn't run out of juice and then the BBC back peddeling! Funny!

Nice one!

cianof

I wouldn't listen to top gear talking about EVs.

Top gear are sponsored by Shell

http://live.topgear.com/world_tour/worldtour2009/sponsor
http://www.marketing-interactive.com/news/10321
http://vfactor.topgear.com/Pages/About-V-Power.aspx

Top gear is about entertainment, not technical information.

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

These vehicles are clearly only limitedly fit for purpose in urban areas like Dublin and it follows that the whole electric car scam is an urban subsidy unsubtly cloaked as a green initiative.

No, it's called economies of scale. An expensive public charge point will pay for itself a lot quicker in Carrickmines than it will in Connemara.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

We would soon see how smart and green Ryan was if Wickila started to charge for ITS water that Dublin takes off it

Dublin local authorities fund the construction and running of its water plants, regardless of where.

Sponge Bob

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Hey Sponge Bob

It was fun watching that again, whats that a couple of years back?

Late 2008 !!

"With a range up to 300 miles and 45-minute QuickCharge, the Model S can carry five adults and two children in quiet comfort – and you can charge it from any outlet, without ever stopping for gas.

I am well aware of the TeslaS and I do hope it works out, honest.

But you are not reading the careful marketing BS there although it is thankfully free of south Dublin green pixiebollix.

"With a range up to 300 miles and 45-minute QuickCharge"

FROM A SPECIAL QUICKCHARGER not any old charger.

"and you can charge it from any outlet"

IN 16 Hours like Jeremy said, you need a Quickcharger to charge it in 45 mins and they cost €1000s and are only usable on a Tesla S .

"without ever stopping for gas"

Because it is electric not because charging is quicker than gassing it. It is true that it takes no gas.

And I am sure the 300 mile range is with no seats in the back or kiddies or wives or luggage, it will only get to Athlone when it is fully loaded and very hopefully Eamon Ryan is lounging in the back and does not make it to Galway for the speech he wanted to bore us with

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Therefore they should always be presented as an urban initiative and the subsidies will always be to urban areas.

I really don't know how you work out this is an urban subsidy. The urban charge points will pay for themselves, the rural ones won't, and by definition it's the urban that will subsidise the rural.

There isn't the population in Connemara to pay for the maintenance of the roads in Connemara, never mind the one or more charge points that'll be installed there.

cianof

Spong Bob, you driving 300 miles every day then?

If you do, you should probably stick with your fossel fuel car.

EVs will suite some people, they don't suite everyone's driving requirements.

It's idiotic to think EVs will replace all cars. That's not the plan.

They'll make up a % of all cars on the road.

Speaking of rural EVs:
http://www.aran-isles.com/blog/2009/11/aran-drivers-go-electric.php

gpjordanf1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Late 2008 !!

Mid 2010

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I am well aware of the TeslaS and I do hope it works out, honest.

But you are not reading the careful marketing BS there although it is thankfully free of south Dublin green pixiebollix.

Every product has PR Bollix, everyone is responsible for themselves and what they believe.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

"With a range up to 300 miles and 45-minute QuickCharge"

FROM A SPECIAL QUICKCHARGER not any old charger.

That may be true, but these will be available at these new charge points. Where theres money to be made, people will provide the facilities.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

"and you can charge it from any outlet"

IN 16 Hours like Jeremy said, you need a Quickcharger to charge it in 45 mins and they cost €1000s and are only usable on a Tesla S .

Again your quoting the Tesla Roadster charging figures there, your misleading people, we'll have to start calling you Jeremy
Heres the charge figures:
Charging time is 4 hours on a 220V outlet,
45 minutes at a 440V charging station

Sponge Bob wrote: »

And I am sure the 300 mile range is with no seats in the back or kiddies or wives or luggage, it will only get to Athlone when it is fully loaded and very hopefully Eamon Ryan is lounging in the back and does not make it to Galway for the speech he wanted to bore us with

I'm pretty sure no car lives up to its max advertised MPG when fully laden, same with this car, but I do believe the Tesla S will traverse this country with ease on a single charge.
Cang be charged from any socket in the country in 4 hours and from a charge station in 45 minutes (enough time for lunch).

I dont know about the rest of ye but I could easily live with those figures.

Sponge Bob

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure no car lives up to its max advertised MPG when fully laden, same with this car, but I do believe the Tesla S will traverse this country with ease on a single charge.

I don't, the family will not make it from Dublin to Galway crusing at 40mph and that is that. Then they gotta charge up to cross Galway ..bless

Can be charged from any socket in the country in 4 hours and from a charge station in 45 minutes (enough time for lunch).

I don't believe that either . Charging Time and Charge retention is VERY SENSITIVE to ambient temperature and Ireland is colder than California so it will ALWAYS take longer.

Are those figures for Death Valley maybe or did the Tesla gang take the easy route and simply not SAY what the ambient temperature was at the time GP Maybe they will build preheated garages and we will drive in and charge at room temperature or something???? Maybe there will be a solar powered preheated glasshouse or bubble here and there ??

I dont know about the rest of ye but I could easily live with those figures.

I could ....were they true. And you dodged the fact that quick chargers for a Tesla will be completely different to a quick charger for a Renault and that quick charge will always be manufacturer specific for the next 10 years until standards form.

And the charged battery silo idea ...while minorly to medium useful....will not work across cars until a standard form is agreed by the lot of them....like an AA is a standard form

Ryan has not started his green pixiebollix waffle yet.

gpjordanf1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I don't, the family will not make it from Dublin to Galway crusing at 40mph and that is that. Then they gotta charge up to cross Galway ..bless

This has not been tested yet, but based on the figures it should do it with ease, my opinion only.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I don't believe that either . Charging Time and Charge retention is VERY SENSITIVE to ambient temperature and Ireland is colder than California so it will ALWAYS take longer.

Are those figures for Death Valley maybe or did the Tesla gang take the easy route and simply not SAY what the ambient temperature was at the time GP Maybe they will build preheated garages and we will drive in and charge at room temperature or something???? Maybe there will be a solar powered preheated glasshouse or bubble here and there ??

Look SpongeBob these are the release specs from the company, I'm not making it up as I go along? I dont care about ambient temp, its irrelevant. If its 4 hrs or 5 hrs I dont care, i 'll be asleep while its doing that? As will everybody else who will own one? I'm guessing you'll be the only one up all night with a stop watch and thermometer cursing!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I could ....were they true. And you dodged the fact that quick chargers for a Tesla will be completely different to a quick charger for a Renault and that quick charge will always be manufacturer specific for the next 10 years until standards form.

And the charged battery silo idea ...while minorly to medium useful....will not work across cars until a standard form is agreed by the lot of them....like an AA is a standard form

Again I couldn't give a rats arse about what plug or battery pack drop out is required!
I didn't dodge the question either, read back again please.
I said these stations will cater for all chargable cars, that will be their business model & plan, they will hardly say "Sorry we only do Renault Bud" , these will be computer controlled charging points with all necessary adaptors & fitting required to make a buck!

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Ryan has not started his green pixiebollix waffle yet.

Ok thanks, might catch it on lunchtime news!
Might have a pixiebollix waffle, starving!

Sponge Bob

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Look SpongeBob these are the release specs from the company, I'm not making it up as I go along? I dont care about ambient temp, its irrelevant. If its 4 hrs or 5 hrs I dont care, i 'll be asleep while its doing that?

It is highly relevant and I am not questioning your sourcing in the least GP ..merely what your source has carefully avoided saying coz they would wouldn't they

I said these stations will cater for all chargable cars, that will be their business model & plan, they will hardly say "Sorry we only do Renault Bud" , these will be computer controlled charging points with all necessary adaptors & fitting required to make a buck!

I will bet right now they will all be in Renault or Nissan garages...so emm No!

Might have a pixiebollix waffle, starving!

Charge that stomach fully , catch you after Ryan does his green pixiebollix routine.

Victor

Sponge Bob, perhaps you are a bit excited about things this morning and should tone it down a bit?

Do you have personal knowledge of this stuff?

dowlingm

climate wise I'd say Ireland will be pretty good for electric (less chance for battery failure in cold/overheating). However, it seems to me that promoting this stuff merely suits car dealers who like vintners and property guys are coddled by TDs, even though Ireland has no auto industry any more. I'd rather see the government make every local service bus in Ireland a hybrid first and push on with rail network electrification. As for charging stations - push the price of petrol high enough and the market will figure out how to handle the rest.

cianof

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/govt-launches-5k-incentive-to-buy-electric-cars-453589.html

2011
€5,000 incentive
0% VRT

It's generous but I think they could have done a little bit better.

2 bits that are disappointing.
1) It's the same money as the current scrappage scheme for older cars
2) There's already 0% vrt on EVs.

I'd like to have seen a reduction in road tax to 100 euros.
€6000 incentive for the 1st year, €5000 for yr 2. (reward early adopters)
plus the the 0% vrt.

The ACA has great offers for businesses.
http://www.sustainableenergyireland.com/Your_Business/Accelerated_Capital_Allowance/

Sponge Bob

dowlingm wrote: »

push the price of petrol high enough and the market will figure out how to handle the rest.

That is the only plan and it will kill the economy stone dead before there is any 'market'

cianof

Don't really understand why petrol heads are so against EVs.

Considering more EVs will cause a reduction in the demand/price at the pumps.

Sponge Bob

The usual Ryan slime. He announced the renault alliance in April 2009 and the ESB rollout was supposed to be 1500 points when originally announced last year but is now to be 3500 points. The increase in charge points is the only new news. The VRT angle is from Budget 2008.

Most of these will be in HOMES where the esb runs a cable along the house for slow charging and charges €330 a pop for the service

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/ELECTRIC+CARS+A+REALITY+FOR+IRELAND.htm

The ESB will only install 30 fast Charging points in the WHOLE COUNTRY, the rest are to be slow points that will take all night to charge at peoples homes.

Pixiebollix and a rehash of old announcements, that is all Ryan announced the 1500 slow points again early this year. A photo was taken of Ryan which is what he wanted .

Does the yoke in his right hand look familiar ????

KevR

dowlingm wrote: »

As for charging stations - push the price of petrol high enough and the market will figure out how to handle the rest.

As soon as electric vehicles become common, road pricing or a car charge tax will be introduced along with VRT for electric vehicles. €7 billion taken from motorists every year currently, €1 billion spent on roads annually. That's not going to change - private motorists will always get screwed whether they are driving a Chelsea tractor or a small zero emission electric car.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is the only plan and it will kill the economy stone dead before there is any 'market'

+ 1,000,000,000,000!

RichieO

Shell are not opposed to EV's they are involved in wind energy, they don't have any choice, they KNOW whats coming in the future....

see here..http://www.shell.com/home/content/innovation/alternative_energy/wind/wind.html

cianof

Fair play to the ESB on the charge points. It's a good start.

I'm happy enough with the 30 fast charge points and other regular charge points.

Most people with EV's will charge up at home, when they're sleeping.

The fast charge points will be of most use between the cities.

From the people who are being critical of the EV idea, I have yet to hear your plausible alternatives?

Sponge Bob

cianof wrote: »

Fair play to the ESB on the charge points. It's a good start.

The ESB are to charge €330 to install a 3 pin socket at the front of your house, a RECI would do it for €100. What is green about that ???? Other than that they will install 30 'fast' chargers which may or may not be fast depending on the temperature outside.

From the people who are being critical of the EV idea, I have yet to hear your plausible alternatives?

I am not opposed to EVs.

The technology is highly experimental and generally inadequate and unready for prime time and will be so pending another battery generation.

Following that we need widespread standardisation of battery forms and chargers. Not for another 5 years anyway.

Meanwhile good luck to the lads and their A4 paper in car technology

I am opposed to listening to Eamon Ryan peddling 3 pin sockets as a vision of some sort and to all the complete waffle these bloody greens come up with

gpjordanf1

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The usual Ryan slime.

Look while you might not like what was announced, its at least a start.
Would I buy a renault Fleunce? With a 160km range? No wouldn't suit my needs.

Would I buy a Tesla S, yes absolutley in a heart beat.

But thats where we are at the moment in Ireland. Talking the big talk but not backing it up.

Its a shame, this will appeal to people around Dublin, Cork and Maybe Galway & Athlone. But no one else.

But with no VRT importing a Tesla S could be a runner in 2012

cianof

I am not opposed to EVs

From this end it sounds like you are opposed to EVs.

The reality is we're in the middle of global recession and oil is at $84.45 a barrel. When things start to improve, its unlikely that oil will get cheaper.