Union Members betrayed by leaders in the Croke Park Sellout...

Silvio.Dante

zootroid wrote: »

Maybe you missed the part directly beneath that

worthless rhetoric as if management want the employee moved there's not a damn thing the union can do about it... remmeber we'd have enshrined a no strike clause for good measure... Pathetic from our leaders. Truely pathetic...

Silvio.Dante

Riskymove wrote: »

ah....no!......that means that the staff will move with the functions....i.e. they will move from working for one org to working for another...it does not say anything there about physically moving location

up to now, in may cases, functions would move to another org but not the people working in those areas

So can you guarantee to me that functions moving will never mean a movement of location..?????

Riskymove

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

So can you guarantee to me that functions moving will never mean a movement of location..?????

of course not, people move from department to agency etc (within dublin for example) all the time...but people cannot be suddenly moved to the other end of the country on that basis

what i am saying is that the detail of the redeployment of people put on 'resource panels' as they call it does not relate to transfer of functions between agencies..there a re a few different ideas at play in the document

Silvio.Dante

Riskymove wrote: »

of course not, people move from department to agency etc (within dublin for example) all the time...but people cannot be suddenly moved to the other end of the country on that basis

At present you are absolutely correct. However an acceptance of this deal would change everything. Agreement that Govt Depts can be restructured at the descretion of the Dept of Finance, staff go with Sections moving and those in sections renderred no longer serving a function go on to a 'Redeployment Panel' with no say as to where they'll be sent... Disgraceful...

tunney

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

At present you are absolutely correct. However an acceptance of this deal would change everything. Agreement that Govt Depts can be restructured at the descretion of the Dept of Finance, staff go with Sections moving and those in sections renderred no longer serving a function go on to a 'Redeployment Panel' with no say as to where they'll be sent... Disgraceful...

Should you not be f*&king working?

The_Honeybadger

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

worthless rhetoric as if management want the employee moved there's not a damn thing the union can do about it... remmeber we'd have enshrined a no strike clause for good measure... Pathetic from our leaders. Truely pathetic...

I doubt they will start moving people all over the country for the fun of it silvio. This is a necessary condition to make savings and efficiencies that will help keep your job in the longer term, if ye refuse the deal and they cannot renegotiate then you really are going into the unknown, and do remember that the government is going to have to make savings one way or another, ye can work with them and have at least some say or ye can be out in the cold while they come up with ways to save money, I know where I would prefer to be if I was in your shoes.

The_Honeybadger

tunney wrote: »

Should you not be f*&king working?

Perhaps he is on a day off or a weeks holidays? That comment really doesn't add anything to the debate.

danbohan

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I agree with you that we've no guarantee on pay. Why then would we voluntarily sign up to a deal that gives huge concessions, castrates our power to have a strike option for nothing concrete in return..?

ok don't sigh up , you don't like 400 per week that's fine , resign today , then head off to the airport and go to any other European country that will pay you more for the wonder-full job you do in public service , cant find one ,ogh dear , ok extend out, try the rest of the world , still having trouble , well unless you can find a vacancy on Mars you better stay in your job there so , and you know the reason its so hard to get job on Mars ? its because most the Irish public servants live there .

Silvio.Dante

mickeyk wrote: »

I doubt they will start moving people all over the country for the fun of it silvio. This is a necessary condition to make savings and efficiencies that will help keep your job in the longer term, if ye refuse the deal and they cannot renegotiate then you really are going into the unknown, and do remember that the government is going to have to make savings one way or another, ye can work with them and have at least some say or ye can be out in the cold while they come up with ways to save money, I know where I would prefer to be if I was in your shoes.

Also there's the concern that the current of new regime in Govt Buildings could resurrect Decentralisation. If we accept this deal as it stands we'd have little or no say in where we'd be redeployed and the contention that a 45km radius is the furthest one can be sent is rendered null and void by paragraphs 15 & 17 of the document where it states that in certain circumstances this radius can be widened.

Why would I vote for this? Seriously?

The_Honeybadger

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Also there's the concern that the current of new regime in Govt Buildings could resurrect Decentralisation. If we accept this deal as it stands we'd have little or no say in where we'd be redeployed and the contention that a 45km radius is the furthest one can be sent is rendered null and void by paragraphs 15 & 17 of the document where it states that in certain circumstances this radius can be widened.

Why would I vote for this? Seriously?

Why would they resurrect decentralisation? It was a costly disaster that I think they are keen to forget. I think you are clutching at straws now, looking for excuses to reject the deal. I would be looking for some sort of assurance that relocation outside of 45k would be in exceptional circumstances only, and that a substantial relocation package be paid in cases where employees have to move their family, or give them the option of voluntary redundancy.

Silvio.Dante

mickeyk wrote: »

Why would they resurrect decentralisation? It was a costly disaster that I think they are keen to forget. I think you are clutching at straws now, looking for excuses to reject the deal. I would be looking for some sort of assurance that relocation outside of 45k would be in exceptional circumstances only, and that a substantial relocation package be paid in cases where employees have to move their family, or give them the option of voluntary redundancy.

Decentralisation where a civil service employee cohort have signed up to it on a mandatroy basis as seen in this proposed agreement would be a no brainer for a General election campaign. An area hit hard by the recession have an empty office block or two in NAMA's hands. What better way to bring economic stimulus back than to send down a couple of hundred docile Civil servants.

This is of course a hypothetical but one that is very possible with this deal. Now why would I sign up for this..?

IrishTonyO

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

.................. Now why would I sign up for this..?

To keep you job maybe?? That might be a good reason. To stop the extra 8% pay cut next budget might be another.

Silvio.Dante

IrishTonyO wrote: »

To keep you job maybe?? That might be a good reason. To stop the extra 8% pay cut next budget might be another.

Those alternatives are not on the table therefore are red herrings straight out of the Daily Mail/Zanu FF Propaganda Department...

The_Honeybadger

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Decentralisation where a civil service employee cohort have signed up to it on a mandatroy basis as seen in this proposed agreement would be a no brainer for a General election campaign. An area hit hard by the recession have an empty office block or two in NAMA's hands. What better way to bring economic stimulus back than to send down a couple of hundred docile Civil servants.

This is of course a hypothetical but one that is very possible with this deal. Now why would I sign up for this..?

Decentralisation cost millions and would cost further millions to fully implement, there is no way it will be rolled out in full on economic grounds. If that is your reason for rejecting the deal then like I said, you are clutching at straws. I can't really give you a reason to vote for the deal, but there are plenty of reasons not to vote against it. I think alot of PS are letting their anger and emotions get in the way of rational thinking.

robtri

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Decentralisation where a civil service employee cohort have signed up to it on a mandatroy basis as seen in this proposed agreement would be a no brainer for a General election campaign. An area hit hard by the recession have an empty office block or two in NAMA's hands. What better way to bring economic stimulus back than to send down a couple of hundred docile Civil servants.

This is of course a hypothetical but one that is very possible with this deal. Now why would I sign up for this..?

yes why would a CS sign up for a deal that might have implications that could bring economic stimulus back....... thats riddiculous:rolleyes:

Silvio.Dante

mickeyk wrote: »

Decentralisation cost millions and would cost further millions to fully implement, there is no way it will be rolled out in full on economic grounds. If that is your reason for rejecting the deal then like I said, you are clutching at straws. I can't really give you a reason to vote for the deal, but there are plenty of reasons not to vote against it. I think alot of PS are letting their anger and emotions get in the way of rational thinking.

What millions...? The infrastructure is already in place in many county towns. It's an appalling vista but a huge possibility in the future if we give the politicians the ammunition...

Silvio.Dante

robtri wrote: »

yes why would a CS sign up for a deal that might have implications that could bring economic stimulus back....... thats riddiculous:rolleyes:

I'm all for voluntary decentralisation but accepting this deal would end that as a concept. we'd be moved around willy nilly and have little or no say in it...

IrishTonyO

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Those alternatives are not on the table therefore are red herrings straight out of the Daily Mail/Zanu FF Propaganda Department...

The only thing that IS on the table is the deal negotiated by your union leaders. If that is not accepted, well who knows what will be on the table then, I reckon forced redundancies more pay cuts will all follow.. as the government have to make the savings one way or another

airvan

I completely agree with the original premise that the union members were betrayed by their leaders. But I'm amazed none of you saw it coming. It was inevitable. They could never deliver what they promised. The unions led their members to believe that they could somehow retrieve the pay cuts, pandered to the notion that their members were hard done by. Played up the fictional private/public sector split.

The members including our OP lapped it up. But when push came to shove. The unions had to face reality and frankly got the best deal they could. But it's backfired and the membership still believe the fantasy. Naturally they feel betrayed because of course they were. The leadership either couldn't or wouldn't tell the members the truth.

The fact of the matter is that in general major parts of the public service are underworked, overpaid, inefficent and overstaffed. Other parts are quite the opposite. That has to be reformed. The pay bill has to be reduced too. The trick was to do in the least painful way possible. Now it's going to be done the hard way.

OP you need to face reality. The union leadership finally has. Get rid of them by all means but elect new ones who are prepared to tell the truth this time, however unpleasant it is.

Silvio.Dante

IrishTonyO wrote: »

The only thing that IS on the table is the deal negotiated by your union leaders. If that is not accepted, well who knows what will be on the table then, I reckon forced redundancies more pay cuts will all follow.. as the government have to make the savings one way or another

At least we'll meet those challenges with our right to strike intact if the nuclear option is required...

The_Honeybadger

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

What millions...? The infrastructure is already in place in many county towns. It's an appalling vista but a huge possibility in the future if we give the politicians the ammunition...

Some of the infrastructure is yes, much of it is not and would incur huge costs to finish. I think it is more likely that the government will mothball or rent some of the properties for now and sell them when they can get something for them.

Sizzler

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Firstly I'm a CPSU member on €400 a week.

This 'deal' was not about pay. Its about members being asked to agree to possible mandatory decentralisation in the future. To their disgrace the union leaders tried to pull the wool over members eyes by spinning the non commitments on pay and totaly left out the Redeployment and Pensions documents which concede massive Terms and conditions of employment we currently hold and on top of that we were asked to accept a no strike clause for the next four years.

Now we've come to expect this type of slash and burn tactics from the Dept of Finance but its downright reprehensible for our union leaders to do the Govt's grubby work for them.

Thankfully members across the Public service have read the small print and will reject it out of hand...

Your CPSU subscription is helping to pay Blair Horan €120k a year plus expenses, now thats an outrage.

Silvio.Dante

mickeyk wrote: »

Some of the infrastructure is yes, much of it is not and would incur huge costs to finish. I think it is more likely that the government will mothball or rent some of the properties for now and sell them when they can get something for them.

You might be right but I'm not willing to take that chance...

Silvio.Dante

Sizzler wrote: »

Your CPSU subscription is helping to pay Blair Horan €120k a year plus expenses, now thats an outrage.

Given his recent performance I tend to agree with you...

Sizzler

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Given his recent performance I tend to agree with you...

Nothing to do with his performance. The reality is he does not give a toss if you or your comrades get your wages cut by another 20% he will still collect his nice big pay chq every month.

If Unions were outlawed in the morning where else would the likes of Begg and O'Connor, Horan etc. get a six figure salary? In short they wouldnt.

I would be more concerned as a union member why they feel the need to extract such a large amount from the coffers when people like you are are complaining about low wages.

Why dont you put a motion up at the next meeting and ask for them to take a pay cut and reduce union subscription rates for all their suffering members Leadership comes from the front, not seeing any where it counts, i.e. helping their members in their pockets. They seem to be more interested in bullying a near bankrupt government :rolleyes:

IrishTonyO

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

At least we'll meet those challenges with our right to strike intact if the nuclear option is required...

You can have your right to strike all you want, if the government does an Aer Lingus and sacks people and employs them on new contracts or employs new people. You can then strike away to your hearts content.

The basis of the whole story here is that your unions bullsh1tted ye into believing the impossible was possible, and now they are trying to u-turn on it. Recommending voting against an agreement they negotiated? How more two faced can you get than that?
I have never seen as much support among the general public for the governments stance over this, and I am sure they aware of this as well

danman

This is probably the best vote getter that the government has.

The public in general are turning away in droves from the union stance, the more the unions stir up public unrest, the more are supporting the government.

miju

For anyone actually wondering what is being asked of the public service in general you can read the agreement in full at http://www.onegov.ie/eng/Public_Service_Agreement_2010_-_2014.shortcut.html

It's a fairly short agreement document but will give you the full agrrement

IrishTonyO

Brian Cowen has just refused to deny that there will be more pay cut for the public service in the next budget if this deal is rejected. He said the only thing on the table is this deal. He was asked if the rumours out over the weekend about more paycuts were true and he would not deny it.

"What's before you at the moment is the deal that was worked out in Croke Park - that provides for us to identify savings on the non-pay side, which would help us to look and see what way we can assist people in the future" he said.

"And it also in the meantime provides as I say income stability (and) job security" he added.

and now the CPSU have recommended rejection of the deals

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0412/breaking13.html

dvpower

@Silvio.Dante
Where do you think rejection of the deal is going to lead?
If there are some new negotiations Blair Horan will enter them knowing that if he comes back without something his members can accept, his leadership of the CPSU is finished. So he has to go for all or nothing. Since the Government is broke and with a careful eye on the bond markets, it’s unlikely that they will concede enough for the CPSU.

So a collapse of negations followed by escalating industrial action seems likely. Are you ready for this kind of industrial action with little or no prospect of anything substantially better at the end of it?

You seem to be clear on what you wont accept. You’re less clear on what you will accept.

bonzos

Its amazing the amount of people (in the real world) who hate FF but support the gov and agree that this "we are entitled not to work" BS that the PS are using has to be ended once and for all. Every person public or private should do the job that their employer is paying them to do, thats just life. If you dont like it let someone else earn a days pay!

bonzos

blair horan is on matt copper now talking about "work/life balance"......someone please tell this clown that april fools day was last thursday week:rolleyes:

thebaldsoprano

miju wrote: »

For anyone actually wondering what is being asked of the public service in general you can read the agreement in full at http://www.onegov.ie/eng/Public_Service_Agreement_2010_-_2014.shortcut.html

It's a fairly short agreement document but will give you the full agrrement

Public Service Agreement 2010 wrote:

The Government gives a commitment that compulsory redundancy will not apply within the public service, save where existing exit provisions apply. This commitment is subject to compliance with the terms of this Agreement and, in particular, to the agreed flexibility on redeployment being delivered.

Public Service Agreement 2010 wrote:

There will be no further reductions in the pay rates of serving public servants for the lifetime of this Agreement. This commitment is subject to compliance with the terms of this Agreement.

Your unions did rather well. I hate to say it, but fair play to them. I take it you have noticed that there are 430,000 people on the dole and will be accepting this, right?

Silvio.Dante

Sizzler wrote: »

Nothing to do with his performance. The reality is he does not give a toss if you or your comrades get your wages cut by another 20% he will still collect his nice big pay chq every month.

If Unions were outlawed in the morning where else would the likes of Begg and O'Connor, Horan etc. get a six figure salary? In short they wouldnt.

I would be more concerned as a union member why they feel the need to extract such a large amount from the coffers when people like you are are complaining about low wages.

Why dont you put a motion up at the next meeting and ask for them to take a pay cut and reduce union subscription rates for all their suffering members Leadership comes from the front, not seeing any where it counts, i.e. helping their members in their pockets. They seem to be more interested in bullying a near bankrupt government :rolleyes:

Nice anti union rant. fact is our union membership is the one thing stopping us being treated disgracefully like so many in the private sector. We embrace the protection our membership grants while dealing internally with any under performing leaders.

Silvio.Dante

dvpower wrote: »

@Silvio.Dante
Where do you think rejection of the deal is going to lead?
If there are some new negotiations Blair Horan will enter them knowing that if he comes back without something his members can accept, his leadership of the CPSU is finished. So he has to go for all or nothing. Since the Government is broke and with a careful eye on the bond markets, it’s unlikely that they will concede enough for the CPSU.

So a collapse of negations followed by escalating industrial action seems likely. Are you ready for this kind of industrial action with little or no prospect of anything substantially better at the end of it?

You seem to be clear on what you wont accept. You’re less clear on what you will accept.

No one can predict the future but what is sure is we won't accept any deal that has a no strike clause and compulsory redeployment.

Inquitus

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

No one can predict the future but what is sure is we won't accept any deal that has a no strike clause and compulsory redeployment.

Its comical watching you deluded PS Workers, the problem is a simple one, the country needs to save billions, those savings have to come from your area among others, they can be achieved via 2 main methods - Pay cuts or Headcount reductions, yet despite this being the case and blatantly obvious to all and sundry, you refuse to accept what was a very generous deal, given the state of the public finances, and instead wish to strike in order to try and obtain something that cannot be given...........

thebaldsoprano

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

our union membership is the one thing stopping us being treated disgracefully like so many in the private sector.

Oh, right. So that explains why PS sick leave is twice as high

http://tinyurl.com/yzpj54g

Silvio.Dante

Inquitus wrote: »

Its comical watching you deluded PS Workers, the problem is a simple one, the country needs to save billions, those savings have to come from your area among others, they can be achieved via 2 main methods - Pay cuts or Headcount reductions, yet despite this being the case and blatantly obvious to all and sundry, you refuse to accept what was a very generous deal, given the state of the public finances, and instead wish to strike in order to try and obtain something that cannot be given...........

its far too generous. We're giving away too much up front for nothing in return. Not going to happen. Simple as.

IrishTonyO

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

its far too generous. We're giving away too much up front for nothing in return. Not going to happen. Simple as.

Well in that case enjoy your new paycuts to come and redundancies

Silvio.Dante

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Oh, right. So that explains why PS sick leave is twice as high

http://tinyurl.com/yzpj54g

Working in many areas of the public service is very stressful and does take its toll on employees health.

Silvio.Dante

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Well in that case enjoy your new paycuts to come and redundancies

Time will tell and we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. However we'll not countenance pension changes and compulsory redeployment.

IrishTonyO

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Time will tell and we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. However we'll not countenance pension changes and compulsory redeployment.

Earlier, the Taoiseach Brian Cowen refused to deny a claim that public sector workers faced another 8% pay cut if they reject the Croke Park Agreement.

Speaking in Tipperary, Mr Cowen refused to reject the weekend claim about further pay cuts, saying the Croke Park deal is "what is now on the table".

The Health Minister Mary Harney urged public servants to "think carefully" about the public sector pay-and-reform deal and warned unions that there was no other alternative on offer.

\http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/deal-can-be-renegotiated-cpsu-453638.html

Silvio.Dante

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Earlier, the Taoiseach Brian Cowen refused to deny a claim that public sector workers faced another 8% pay cut if they reject the Croke Park Agreement.

Speaking in Tipperary, Mr Cowen refused to reject the weekend claim about further pay cuts, saying the Croke Park deal is "what is now on the table".

The Health Minister Mary Harney urged public servants to "think carefully" about the public sector pay-and-reform deal and warned unions that there was no other alternative on offer.

\http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/deal-can-be-renegotiated-cpsu-453638.html

To be expected.

Fizzical

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Earlier, the Taoiseach Brian Cowen refused to deny a claim that public sector workers faced another 8% pay cut if they reject the Croke Park Agreement.

Speaking in Tipperary, Mr Cowen refused to reject the weekend claim about further pay cuts, saying the Croke Park deal is "what is now on the table".

The Health Minister Mary Harney urged public servants to "think carefully" about the public sector pay-and-reform deal and warned unions that there was no other alternative on offer.

\http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/deal-can-be-renegotiated-cpsu-453638.html

Typical bullying tactics.

'No other alternative on offer' means only that - they are not offering an alternative at the moment.

Unions fell out of fashion during the good times - 'who needs them in this modern society? and who wants to pay a union sub?!'

The poor treatment of some people working in the private sector shows the need for unions. It is not an argument that all workers should be treated in the same way.

The conditions in this 'agreement' are draconian and derisory. It seems apparent that most people on this thread have not read the agreement - certainly not from the point of view of the worker being asked to sign it.

changes

If the deal is accepted they probably won't need to cut pay. They are planning on moving alot of the jobs to centralised areas. E.g Medical card processing is being moved to dublin, and all of the local medical card offices are closing. This is likely to be duplicated throughout the PS/CS.

So the choice for some will be an 8% cut or a longer commute and all the expenses that that entails.

I'll probably vote for the agreement and will take my chances. But i believe if the government gets up to any funny business or messes us around then we should down tools and walk out.

ParkRunner

changes wrote: »

I'll probably vote for the agreement and will take my chances. But i believe if the government gets up to any funny business or messes us around then we should down tools and walk out.

I think this is really the central point to this agreement. Unfortunately if the government does get up to any 'funny business' the ability to take industrial action will have been severly curtailed. If industrial action were then to be taken it will render the deal void and also the guarantees not to impose further cuts.

The question members will have to ask themselves is do they trust the government to honour their side of the deal? If the trust was there I think this deal could be passed, however given the deficit that exists I find it very hard to believe that they will be able to afford to honour the deal. The only way I can see some of the paycuts being restored is by eroding our pensions to a significant degree in the Spring 'review'. The Government has wanted for years to look at public sector pensions and the pension levy is not a solution so they need to find an easy way to 'review' the pensions.

In addition, members are going to have to look at what happens if the deal is rejected? I dont think there is appetite there for all out industrial action, however targetted industrial action may be an option, which may also achieve nothing. I do think the most likely outcome of a rejection of the deal is a return to talks, despite the Government saying that there is no alternative. They are hardly going to say if the deal is rejected we'll go back in and try again. The effort the Government are making to say there is no alternative leads me to believe that there is, they just don't want to go there.

The deal itself has virtually no guarantees other than that a review of pay, pensions and working conditions will take place. As much as I was looking forward to a deal being agreed so that we could all get on with getting this country back to a position of economic growth, I dont see that this document will be the solution...

also I can't help but notice how little activity there has been on this thread since office hours ended

IrishTonyO

Fizzical wrote: »

Typical bullying tactics.

and what would you call industrial action taken by the unions affecting innocent members of the public?

Sizzler

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Nice anti union rant. fact is our union membership is the one thing stopping us being treated disgracefully like so many in the private sector. We embrace the protection our membership grants while dealing internally with any under performing leaders.

Under performing leaders LOL GTFO! Are you serious?

The fact is your union membership helped get you tremendous benefits during the boom times thru benchmarking, accounting for a shed load of all those budget surpluses being pi$$ed up against the wall on PS salaries. The irony now being twofold, the likes of Blair Horan and JOC are back around the table begging with cap in hand and promising wholesale public sector reform, when that was supposed to be delivered in the first instance :eek: Unbelievable. Secondly whilst everybody else in the economy be those lucky enough to still be employed to those on welfare have pretty much all taken cuts the PS think they are exempt, WTF.

LOL at the comment about sick days. Come on out of that. The real story is PS workers know they wont get sacked, its well versed that there is barely a disciplinary process in most govt depts, you would have to walk bollock naked around a PS office with horns on your head before someone would even think about having a word, let alone fire your a$$.

Company I work in had union reps harrass the staff for months on and off promising X,Y, and Z. Eventually they managed to get 10% or so of the workforce on board, they did NOTHING. Failed promises, staged one event and went underground. I know a handful of people who didnt cancel their subs.

Unions work in PS as its the culture, plenty of flourishing industry in Ireland with real accountability without the need for unions.

If you dont like your employer (in this case the govt) then leave, I dont ever recall reading about PS workers being tied into lifelong contracts :rolleyes:

Silvio.Dante

changes wrote: »

If the deal is accepted they probably won't need to cut pay. They are planning on moving alot of the jobs to centralised areas. E.g Medical card processing is being moved to dublin, and all of the local medical card offices are closing. This is likely to be duplicated throughout the PS/CS.

So the choice for some will be an 8% cut or a longer commute and all the expenses that that entails.

I'll probably vote for the agreement and will take my chances. But i believe if the government gets up to any funny business or messes us around then we should down tools and walk out.

But what if the Govt comes back in a years time after we've accepted this massive concession on redeployment and says sorry lads and lasses but we have to cut your pay anyway. We'd have signed up to a no strike clause to boot.

Mister men

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Working in many areas of the public service is very stressful and does take its toll on employees health.

God help them. Of course we all know every private sector workers job is a cake walk what with pay reductions,constant threat of being made redundant, three day weeks, no pension need i go on. Put your violin away.