Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Fireball07

castie wrote: »

Ryan out according to Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0327/1224313955233.html

Shít, massive blow.

DOC and MOD, or DOC and Nagle? I suppose MOD will get the nod, might need his experience with POC out.

With Thorn and Cullen available for them, it really gives them an advantage in the 2nd row which is one place where we have tended to have the upper hand, thanks to POC.

Amazotheamazing

Fireball07 wrote: »

Shít, massive blow.

DOC and MOD, or DOC and Nagle? I suppose MOD will get the nod, might need his experience with POC out.

With Thorn and Cullen available for them, it really gives them an advantage in the 2nd row which is one place where we have tended to have the upper hand, thanks to POC.

POC has missed a lot of the leinster games over the past few years, and it's told imo. Personally, this game isn't a must win, so I'd go with Nagle and DOC.

Flincher

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Gaffney is brilliant at one thing (and one thing only imo) desinging backs moves to launch off a scrum or lineout.

This disappeared completly from the Irish game after 2009, while in 2009 I'd say half of our breaks came from backs moves off the back of scrum or lineout.

Every team he has been with (except for Ireland after 2009) has been very good at launching backs moves off the back of a lineout or scrum so why would he have stopped doing it. Someone must of given orders to stop or else Gaffney decided to stop doing the only thing he knows how to do competantly as a backs coach.

In 09, our tries from set piece moves were O'Driscoll's outside break off the lineout v France, maybe Bowe's v Wales, and the 2 variations of the same scrum move which we used 2 weeks in a row against Australia and Fiji. Even including the November tests in 08, I think Bowe scored from a scrum-move against Canada, but that was it as far as I recall.

I think it is more likely that our attack was worked out rather than orders came from above to be honest. Gaffney's refusal to employ depth has been shown up by the tries we have scored this year. I'm keeping half an eye on the Waratahs to see how he gets on with them. He has a lot of talented players at his disposal.

Amazotheamazing

Flincher wrote: »

In 09, our tries from set piece moves were O'Driscoll's outside break off the lineout v France, maybe Bowe's v Wales, and the 2 variations of the same scrum move which we used 2 weeks in a row against Australia and Fiji. Even including the November tests in 08, I think Bowe scored from a scrum-move against Canada, but that was it as far as I recall.

I think it is more likely that our attack was worked out rather than orders came from above to be honest. Gaffney's refusal to employ depth has been shown up by the tries we have scored this year. I'm keeping half an eye on the Waratahs to see how he gets on with them. He has a lot of talented players at his disposal.

He's had a lot of talented players since he went back to Leinster, and even with Saracens. Just think the game has moved on.

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

padraig.od

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He's had a lot of talented players since he went back to Leinster, and even with Saracens. Just think the game has moved on.

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

LOL that would put the cat among the pigeons!

Fireball07

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He's had a lot of talented players since he went back to Leinster, and even with Saracens. Just think the game has moved on.

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

While I do really rate Luke Fitz, unless he's willing to play in the centre (as a 12), I'd nearly say no. I think we should be aiming to develop our own young wingers like LOD and Zebo as much as possible. I think they both have a lot of potential.

Flincher

I rate Fitz highly, but no.

It'd feel durty.

We have our own lads coming through. We should use them

Fireball07

Flincher wrote: »

I rate Fitz highly, but no.

It'd feel durty.

We have our own lads coming through. We should use them

Yeah if we're robbing Leinster players, I'd take Healy, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton, Nacewa :P

I would have taken Ruddock but tbh, people like DOC2, TOD, POM and Butler are very promising themselves.

We haven't had an awful lot of players coming through recently- now that we are finally getting some players that look good enough, we should try to bring them on as much as possible while they're young- unlike the Ryan and Coughlan situations.

Amazotheamazing

Fireball07 wrote: »

While I do really rate Luke Fitz, unless he's willing to play in the centre (as a 12), I'd nearly say no. I think we should be aiming to develop our own young wingers like LOD and Zebo as much as possible. I think they both have a lot of potential.

Sign him as a 12 and we'd be away in a hack.

Hyperbullet

Being reported now that Stringer has signed a one year contract extension. Not sure how to feel about that, not a bad back up to have on the bench I guess.

Fireball07

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Being reported now that Stringer has signed a one year contract extension. Not sure how to feel about that, not a bad back up to have on the bench I guess.

Definitely good because TOL is going. Don't have faith in Williams and I don't know how good Sheridan is.

Hyperbullet

Fireball07 wrote: »

Definitely good because TOL is going. Don't have faith in Williams and I don't know how good Sheridan is.

No faith in Williams either, so I agree it's good for now. I'm just wondering what the long term plan is, give Williams one more year to prove his worth or sign someone at the end of next season?

Fireball07

Hyperbullet wrote: »

No faith in Williams either, so I agree it's good for now. I'm just wondering what the long term plan is, give Williams one more year to prove his worth or sign someone at the end of next season?

Yeah maybe Williams deserves more time. Hopefully Sheridan can step up. If we really have to, we could sign a NIQ as cover next season. Hopefully it won't be needed though.

buck65

Jaysus I'd take Luke Fitz any day, lad like that you would find a place for him.

Fireball07

buck65 wrote: »

Jaysus I'd take Luke Fitz any day, lad like that you would find a place for him.

I suppose :P

It is a bit unrealistic though

jm08

Fireball07 wrote: »

While I do really rate Luke Fitz, unless he's willing to play in the centre (as a 12), I'd nearly say no. I think we should be aiming to develop our own young wingers like LOD and Zebo as much as possible. I think they both have a lot of potential.

Luke Fitz started his rugby career in Cork Con. Played there until the family moved back to Dublin when he was 12/13. also nearly signed a contract with munster when leinster were not going to give him a contract when he left school.

Hed be a fantastic addition to Munster.

Amazotheamazing

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Being reported now that Stringer has signed a one year contract extension. Not sure how to feel about that, not a bad back up to have on the bench I guess.

It's not great imo, he's not the player he was.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's not great imo, he's not the player he was.

He is still essential to have around the squad because of TOL's departure, but he is not the player he once was.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Should Munster make an audacious bid for Luke fitz, bring him back to Cork!

Wait your turn Leinster haven't been allowed negotiate with him yet so wait in line:D

Amazotheamazing

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

He is still essential to have around the squad because of TOL's departure, but he is not the player he once was.

I'd still rather Williams ahead of Stringer now, I genuinely think he's now poorer than people are recognising.

thomond2006

Neither Conor Murray nor Paul O'Connell have been included in the Munster squad for Saturday's RaboDirect PRO12 clash with Leinster.


There had been optimism that Murray might make it back in time for this top of the table clash whereas O'Connell was always a doubt. It's hoped however that both may be in contention for inclusion in the squad for the game against Ulster on saturday week.

.... Meanwhile Munster have confirmed that Peter Stringer and Dave Foley have agreed one year contract extensions.

Stringer is currently on loan to Newcastle Falcons while Foley who is out injured with a shoulder injury opted for a one year contract instead of the offered two year deal.

Munster Squad (28):
Marcus Horan, Wian du Preez, BJ Botha, John Ryan, Stephen Archer,
Damien Varley, Mike Sherry, Denis Fogarty,
Donncha O’Callaghan, Mick O’Driscoll, Billy Holland,
Dave O’Callaghan, Peter O’Mahony, Tommy O’Donnell, David Wallace, James Coughlan,

Duncan Williams, Tomas O’Leary,
Ronan O’Gara, Ian Keatley,
Danny Barnes, Lifeimi Mafi, Keith Earls,
Simon Zebo, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy, Scott Deasy, Felix Jones

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/10290.php

No word in the article about Donnacha Ryan but he's not included in the squad, so one can assume he's out as well. No Nagle or LOD either, although LOD did pick up a knock last week.

Interesting that Foley only signed a one year deal, perhaps he isn't sure if his long term future is with Munster and wants to keep his options open.

I haven't seen the last few Munster matches so I'm not sure on the team I want to see! One prop, one hooker, one backrower and 2 outside backs will not be included in the matchday 23. The interesting selections will be in the backrow (is Wallace ready?) and in the backthree where there are a lot of players in form.

Amazotheamazing

It makes sense for foley to sign a one year deal. Leinster and Connacht will be looking for locks in a season if he doesn't break into the Munster team.

As for O'Dea, he's picked up a lot of small knocks this season, there's no need to rush him.

justsomebloke

Fireball07 wrote: »

If we really have to, we could sign a NIQ as cover next season. Hopefully it won't be needed though.

Fraid not. With Pienaar contracted with Ulster till the end of the 13/14 season a NIQ scrum half is not an option

Fireball07

justsomebloke wrote: »

Fraid not. With Pienaar contracted with Ulster till the end of the 13/14 season a NIQ scrum half is not an option

Forgot about that...but are the 1 player per position restrictions in place. Realistically, we only want someone to be decent cover for Murray and there are 3 NIQ tightheads in the provinces at the moment, 2 looseheads...



Pity LOD is injured, but I suppose he wasn't realistically going to play anyway. Ryan and POC both being out will be a big loss.

I want to see a back 3 of Zebo-Hurley-Jones and a backrow of POM-TOD-Coughlan. Wallace to come off the bench.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Fireball07 wrote: »

Forgot about that...but are the 1 player per position restrictions in place. Realistically, we only want someone to be decent cover for Murray and there are 3 NIQ tightheads in the provinces at the moment, 2 looseheads...

It doesn't apply at the moment, it comes in the season after next

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Fireball07 wrote: »

Forgot about that...but are the 1 player per position restrictions in place. Realistically, we only want someone to be decent cover for Murray and there are 3 NIQ tightheads in the provinces at the moment, 2 looseheads...

It doesn't apply at the moment, it comes in the season after next

It applies to any contracts that run into that season it seems. Or so Pienaars contract announcement implied.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It applies to any contracts that run into that season it seems. Or so Pienaars contract announcement implied.

yep thats my understanding as well

Amazotheamazing

There's absolutely no reason to waste an NIQ spot on a scrumhalf, we have depth of sorts there.

thomond2006

Detractors of Keatley would say that we need a Berquist type of signing to cover 10, but I think Keatley is good enough.

A top backrower would be nice, but it would have to be a seriously top drawer signing to be worth keeping someone like Coughlan out, the level of Pocock or Brussow. If Wallace gets back to 60% of what he was last season then Munster will be fine. Ronan and Leamy will be back from injury by next season too.

+1 to amazo's point, we definitely don't need a scrum half. We have 4 signed up anyway with Murray on a central contract (I assume?!), Stringer and Williams on provincial contracts and Sheridan on a development contract.

Podge_irl

It took Wallace a fair while to reach the level of performance he was displaying at the close end of last season. He had a middling first few months. I'd be worried about banking anything on him coming back strong now he's a year older (machine and all that he is).

Amazotheamazing

thomond2006 wrote: »

Detractors of Keatley would say that we need a Berquist type of signing to cover 10, but I think Keatley is good enough.

A top backrower would be nice, but it would have to be a seriously top drawer signing to be worth keeping someone like Coughlan out, the level of Pocock or Brussow. If Wallace gets back to 60% of what he was last season then Munster will be fine. Ronan and Leamy will be back from injury by next season too.

+1 to amazo's point, we definitely don't need a scrum half. We have 4 signed up anyway with Murray on a central contract (I assume?!), Stringer and Williams on provincial contracts and Sheridan on a development contract.

There's also guys like Gerry Hurley and Brian Haugh about, I don't think we'll be too badly caught.

Don't think we can really bank on Wallace, Leamy or even Ronan coming back as good as they were, and it'd be foolishness on our part to think we could.

thomond2006

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

There's also guys like Gerry Hurley and Brian Haugh about, I don't think we'll be too badly caught.

Don't think we can really bank on Wallace, Leamy or even Ronan coming back as good as they were, and it'd be foolishness on our part to think we could.

Who do you think would fit into the first team along with the group of backrowers we currently have?

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Detractors of Keatley would say that we need a Berquist type of signing to cover 10, but I think Keatley is good enough.

A top backrower would be nice, but it would have to be a seriously top drawer signing to be worth keeping someone like Coughlan out, the level of Pocock or Brussow. If Wallace gets back to 60% of what he was last season then Munster will be fine. Ronan and Leamy will be back from injury by next season too.

+1 to amazo's point, we definitely don't need a scrum half. We have 4 signed up anyway with Murray on a central contract (I assume?!), Stringer and Williams on provincial contracts and Sheridan on a development contract.

Aren't Munster down to project NIQs only? Rule is 4+1 for next year afaik
Botha, WDP, Lualua, Howlett is your four NIQs so only the project slot remains unavailable in terms of NIQ signings.

Anyway I think Munster might be a little stacked in terms of backrow numbers for next year.

Ronan, Leamy, Coghlan, POM, TOD, DOC2.0, Butler and that new 7 signed from the championship. If Wallace finds form I'd say he will get another year as well.

Amazotheamazing

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who do you think would fit into the first team along with the group of backrowers we currently have?

I genuinely don't know. It was obvious POM was going to be a good player if he could stay fit, if we'd bought somebody in we'd have probably missed out on POM. I think Butler is in a similar bind. I don't think guys like DOCv2.0 and TOD are in the same category but I'm not sure. I'd be reluctant to bring in any NIQ backrower unless it was a McCaw or Pocock type signing because it's so hard to judge backrowers without seeing a lot of them.

Amazotheamazing

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Aren't Munster down to project NIQs only? Rule is 4+1 for next year afaik
Botha, WDP, Lualua, Howlett is your four NIQs so only the project slot remains unavailable in terms of NIQ signings.

Anyway I think Munster might be a little stacked in terms of backrow numbers for next year.

Ronan, Leamy, Coghlan, POM, TOD, DOC2.0, Butler and that new 7 signed from the championship. If Wallace finds form I'd say he will get another year as well.

We are. It's possible our project will be Borlase, do we risk giving him a contract on the basis that he'll be IQ in 12 months?

bantron

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

We are. It's possible our project will be Borlase, do we risk giving him a contract on the basis that he'll be IQ in 12 months?

Why? He's not deserving of a professional contract and he can't serve much use to the squad, no point in having him around.

Amazotheamazing

bantron wrote: »

Why? He's not deserving of a professional contract and he can't serve much use to the squad, no point in having him around.

Don't know how anyone outside the squad can be sure eitherway tbh.

irishbucsfan

Has Borlase been playing AIL?

Amazotheamazing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Has Borlase been playing AIL?

No. Because of certain rules in the AIL Dolphin have preferred to play Christy Condon as their contracted tighthead. Shows the dangers of having two contracted players in the same position for any club.

irishbucsfan

The IRFU need to sort out their AIL rules sharpish.

Has Borlase been playing B&I then? I'm just wondering if there's any evidence of him improving.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The IRFU need to sort out their AIL rules sharpish.
.

yes they do but at the same time you cant have all the contracted players playing for 1 or 2 clubs. i played in a successful underage team in cork but once it gets to senior level all our best players had to go to con or dolphin because they wouldn't get a look in with munster otherwise as a result our senior team is very average and this is unfair

Amazotheamazing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The IRFU need to sort out their AIL rules sharpish.

Has Borlase been playing B&I then? I'm just wondering if there's any evidence of him improving.

He's had some gametime, not sure if he's started any games. There's a host of props like Borlase, Cotter, Kilcoyne and Ryan all knocking around, we badly need one or two of them to step up.

CatFromHue

In the circumstances, the ankle injury Ian Nagle picked up in Galway last "Saturday was decidedly ill-timed, and with Dave Foley also sidelined, it means Donncha O’Callaghan and Mick O’Driscoll pretty much pick themselves against Leinster, although they also have the versatility of Billy Holland.

Like Peter Stringer, Foley has agreed a new one-year contract, although given Foley could have taken up a two-year option, that seems like a statement of intent.

“Pre-season injuries robbed him of being the next one in line,” admitted McGahan. “I know he is very keen and he and Ian (Nagles) have a tremendous relationship and a real competitive environement that they have created around themselves, very similar to Paul and Donncha to a certain extent. They check out each others weights and times and I think he is putting himself on a timeline, he is really keen to back himself. He is out for the rest of the season and he is another player we have a lot of time for and are really excited about the prosepcts for him.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0328/1224314008837.html

---

McGahan talking in The Times about the game on the weekend and Nagle and Foley.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

In the circumstances, the ankle injury Ian Nagle picked up in Galway last "Saturday was decidedly ill-timed, and with Dave Foley also sidelined, it means Donncha O’Callaghan and Mick O’Driscoll pretty much pick themselves against Leinster, although they also have the versatility of Billy Holland.

Like Peter Stringer, Foley has agreed a new one-year contract, although given Foley could have taken up a two-year option, that seems like a statement of intent.

“Pre-season injuries robbed him of being the next one in line,” admitted McGahan. “I know he is very keen and he and Ian (Nagles) have a tremendous relationship and a real competitive environement that they have created around themselves, very similar to Paul and Donncha to a certain extent. They check out each others weights and times and I think he is putting himself on a timeline, he is really keen to back himself. He is out for the rest of the season and he is another player we have a lot of time for and are really excited about the prosepcts for him.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0328/1224314008837.html

---

McGahan talking in The Times about the game on the weekend and Nagle and Foley.

so are all 4 out for the ulster game?

Amazotheamazing

Diana Lively Survivor wrote: »

so are all 4 out for the ulster game?

Yep, missing POC, Ryan, Nagle and Foley. Nagle and Foley have had no luck this season.

Edit, missing them for the Leinster game, should be back next week, d'oh!

budhabob

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Yep, missing POC, Ryan, Nagle and Foley. Nagle and Foley have had no luck this season.

I got the impression that there was still strong hope for Ryan and POC for the Ulster game?

Amazotheamazing

budhabob wrote: »

I got the impression that there was still strong hope for Ryan and POC for the Ulster game?

Sorry, misread the post, thought he said Leinster game. Yeah, POC and Ryan should be back for Ulster.

jacothelad

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

He's had some gametime, not sure if he's started any games. There's a host of props like Borlase, Cotter, Kilcoyne and Ryan all knocking around, we badly need one or two of them to step up.

Props need to play every week and to have 'live' scrummaging practice.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Yep, missing POC, Ryan, Nagle and Foley. Nagle and Foley have had no luck this season.

Edit, missing them for the Leinster game, should be back next week, d'oh!

"McGahan was speaking amid the sumptuous and expansive surrounds of the Fota Island Resort, where Munster assembled for a two-day camp, and he remained hopeful Paul O’Connell, Conor Murray and Donnacha Ryan would be fit for the Heineken Cup quarter-final against Ulster."

budhabob

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Sorry, misread the post, thought he said Leinster game. Yeah, POC and Ryan should be back for Ulster.

Oh thank feck, thought you knew something I didnt.

Amazotheamazing

budhabob wrote: »

Oh thank feck, thought you knew something I didnt.

Believe me I know nothing!