Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Podge_irl

He's had some injury problems as far as I know but it might be deeper then that. Pretty sure he was fit for the latter half of the season but still saw no game time. He's a on a three year contract too

Hagz

Matt Berquist has joined the squad. Also, a look at the Pro 12 official ball, made by RHINO.

Hagz

Michael Keating get's a hat-trick on his debut for Doncaster Knights in a dominating performance over Hull rfc that saw the Knights cross the line 10 times. Ex-Leinster prop Royce Burke Flynn got involved with his own try, and Irish David Mcilwayne got a brace.

Final score 68 - 14

Good to see him shine, hopefully it continues and he makes his way to top flight rugby.

totallegend

roycon wrote: »

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php?player=5036&includeref=dynamic

interesting stuff...as if we dont have enough second rows already. ed odonoghue is still listed as being part of the squad despite his absence from training or team related activities

Maybe I have too much time on my hands, but I note that in the new Leinster squad pics, only he and Mike Ross haven't been snapped in the new kit:
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php

Does this mean anything?

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

Maybe I have too much time on my hands, but I note that in the new Leinster squad pics, only he and Mike Ross haven't been snapped in the new kit:
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/profiles/index.php

Does this mean anything?

They don't make a size big enough for Mike Ross?

Hagz

Niall Morris is expected to get some game-time of the bench for the Tigers this evening against Montpellier.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/17546.php

irishbucsfan

I kindve watched the Tigers match but it was in terrible quality.

I couldn't tell who was who, but some Leicester player with shaggy hair looked absolutely brilliant for their tries. I think it was an outside back or a center. Don't think it was Morris but I might be wrong.

Couldn't tell if Morris even got on tbh, that's how bad the quality was!

GerM

He didn't get a mention on the Tigers board. Anthony Allen was mentioned as someone that did well for the tries so perhaps that's who you saw, IBF. Montpellier destroyed a decent Tigers side though. Leinster cannot take these guys lightly at all. Considering we've to go out there first game, it's going to be a very tough encounter. We'll really need to put in a big performance to get something out of the game.

anonymous_joe

GerM wrote: »

He didn't get a mention on the Tigers board. Anthony Allen was mentioned as someone that did well for the tries so perhaps that's who you saw, IBF. Montpellier destroyed a decent Tigers side though. Leinster cannot take these guys lightly at all. Considering we've to go out there first game, it's going to be a very tough encounter. We'll really need to put in a big performance to get something out of the game.

Second in Top 14 and our coach is an old Top 14 head. We won't underestimate anybody.

Hagz

http://inpho.ie/cgi-bin/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/2/wo/fRf2qBtOwWzHQLU89qpblg/0.0.27.5.3?KeywordSearch=leinster&Cat_1=3&Cat_2=WONoSelectionString&SortResults=0&x=119&y=19&wosid=fRf2qBtOwWzHQLU89qpblg

ambid

Hagz wrote: »

http://inpho.ie/cgi-bin/WebObjects/INPHO-Shop.woa/2/wo/fRf2qBtOwWzHQLU89qpblg/0.0.27.5.3?KeywordSearch=leinster&Cat_1=3&Cat_2=WONoSelectionString&SortResults=0&x=119&y=19&wosid=fRf2qBtOwWzHQLU89qpblg

Matt Berquist in the academy profile pics? Eh?

Hagz

ambid wrote: »

Matt Berquist in the academy profile pics? Eh?

No. You see the link I provided, takes you to the most recent photo's that are relevant to Leinster. So it is not actually a specific page about Academy profile pictures. That is why Mat Berquist's picture is amongst the lot. However, this does not mean Mat Berquist is in the Academy. Mat Berquist is in the full senior squad.

ambid

Hagz wrote: »

No. You see the link I provided, takes you to the most recent photo's that are relevant to Leinster. So it is not actually a specific page about Academy profile pictures. That is why Mat Berquist's picture is amongst the lot. However, this does not mean Mat Berquist is in the Academy. Mat Berquist is in the full senior squad.

Ah. That makes a little more sense

Cheers.

GerM

Looking at the new academy intake and I'm taken aback at just how big the players are. The majority are backs but they're nearly all over 90kg aside from McGrath who is only 84kg but has only just finished school and is only 5'9". A year in a professional set up could well see him up to 90kg as his body naturally adapts to the conditioning.

The forwards aren't exactly small guys either. The smallest is Gilsenan who is an openside which is traditionally the lightest forward. He's 96kg and also only out of school. Others are up to 115kg. I'd expect Gilsenan to put on about another 8kg over the next 2 years. Some serious levels of conditioning taking place at underage level.

Monty Burnz

GerM wrote: »

Looking at the new academy intake and I'm taken aback at just how big the players are. The majority are backs but they're nearly all over 90kg aside from McGrath who is only 84kg but has only just finished school and is only 5'9". A year in a professional set up could well see him up to 90kg as his body naturally adapts to the conditioning.

The forwards aren't exactly small guys either. The smallest is Gilsenan who is an openside which is traditionally the lightest forward. He's 96kg and also only out of school. Others are up to 115kg. I'd expect Gilsenan to put on about another 8kg over the next 2 years. Some serious levels of conditioning taking place at underage level.

Are the heavy because they are naturally big guys, or are the heavy because they are already bulked up at school? If the latter, then presumably they won't put on as much more bulk when training full time.

GerM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Are the heavy because they are naturally big guys, or are the heavy because they are already bulked up at school? If the latter, then presumably they won't put on as much more bulk when training full time.

Fair point and it's probably a bit of both. Players are certainly bulking up more at a younger age so that will reduce the amount of growth they will experience in the academy but they will still bulk up. I would more see it that in previous years it could take 3 or 4 years for a player to reach the level of conditioning and power to play regular professional rugby whilst now they are well down the road by the time they come into the academy. The likes of McFadden, Sexton, McLaughlin and Toner didn't get any significant game time until they were around 22 or 23. The work at underage level appears to have players much better prepared at a younger age now and players are ready to make the breakthrough a year or two earlier.

Before it was rare for a player to have both the power and ability to survive in the pro game at 19 or 20 and the Fitzgeralds and Kearneys were the exceptions but now there seems to be a few players every season capable of playing and making an impression at 19 years old.

Irish Gunner

Off topic but what away games is anyone going to? Looking at Bath, Munster and Ulster.

Is anyone going to Bath as trying to get there without having to car and boat. Flights bit much so looking at boat and train. The supporters club are not running any buses anyone looked into this?

ktulu123

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Off topic but what away games is anyone going to? Looking at Bath, Munster and Ulster.

Is anyone going to Bath as trying to get there without having to car and boat. Flights bit much so looking at boat and train. The supporters club are not running any buses anyone looked into this?

Planning to hopefully go to all the Heineken Cup away games, booked Montpellier already. For bath i was gonna go with Joe Walsh Tours, went with them to the final and they were grand! Gonna drive and get the ferry to the Glasgow game!

Monty Burnz

GerM wrote: »

Before it was rare for a player to have both the power and ability to survive in the pro game at 19 or 20 and the Fitzgeralds and Kearneys were the exceptions but now there seems to be a few players every season capable of playing and making an impression at 19 years old.

I wonder how long before we produce a freak like James O'Connor, playing HC level at 17?

Amazotheamazing

GerM wrote: »

Before it was rare for a player to have both the power and ability to survive in the pro game at 19 or 20 and the Fitzgeralds and Kearneys were the exceptions but now there seems to be a few players every season capable of playing and making an impression at 19 years old.

The same guys who just missed seasons due to injury?

Sometimes I think people want to play young players simply for the novelty value of playing a young player, pro rugby is a brutal sport, how many guys who start off as fulltime pros at 18 make it to 30 or 35 and are still playing? Players from the SH seem to hit a pretty steep decline in their late 20's.

Look at guys like Leamy and Ferris, their bodies are wrecks and I'd be amazed if we don't see something similar happen with SOB.

tolosenc

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Look at guys like Leamy and Ferris, their bodies are wrecks and I'd be amazed if we don't see something similar happen with SOB.

You're forgetting the fact that SOB isn't actually human, there...

GerM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

The same guys who just missed seasons due to injury?

Sometimes I think people want to play young players simply for the novelty value of playing a young player, pro rugby is a brutal sport, how many guys who start off as fulltime pros at 18 make it to 30 or 35 and are still playing? Players from the SH seem to hit a pretty steep decline in their late 20's.

Look at guys like Leamy and Ferris, their bodies are wrecks and I'd be amazed if we don't see something similar happen with SOB.

Look at DOC and Hayes who have played for years and seen many years relatively injury free. Rugby is attritional sport and injuries will happen. There's a lot of luck involved if you don't pick up injuries regardless of age. Ferris and Leamy have been injured a large amount due to the very high impact and aggressive nature of how they play the game. SOB didn't make his Leinster debut until he was 21 and was almost 22 before he played 80 minutes. His injuries, past and future, are a result of his attritional nature, not being introduced at a young age to pro rugby.

Bodies will get battered, injuries will occur regardless. This is the case whether they take up professional rugby at 20 or 25. Look at McLaughlin who didn't play until he was 23. The injuries sustained by Kearney and Fitz were freak injuries that could happen to me having a kick around and didn't have anything to do with them coming through at a younger age.

Once a player is properly conditioned and physically developed for professional rugby, they're ready in my opinion. It doesn't matter if they're 20 or 25. The likelihood is that they'll suffer injuries at some point anyway. I don't think any player in rugby will have a career of that length; it's impossible in such a physically demanding environment.

If teams were throwing in extremely talented players who are physically ready to meet the demands of professional rugby then I would be concerned but I don't see that as being the case really in this country anyway. Any young player being brought through has been more than capable of holding their own.

Deleted User

GerM, you're completely neglecting the fact that many people haven't finished their "natural" growth before they're 17/18, and as a result, training for an attritional sport can make them far more injury prone.

There's a huge trade-off between speed of development and longevity of career, and I think that we've got it fairly right on the island here.

We really don't need to rush anyone through.

Deleted User wrote: »

I am not talking about stunting growth, I'm talking about longevity of careers.

We do not need 18 year olds playing professional rugby.

Having a brother in the Leinster setup for the last 2 years I know how the development works, that weight training etc is essential and won't harm growth. That is not an issue, what is an issue is having kids playing rugby before they are mature in their own bodys and minds. Here's a post I made a month ago on the issue..

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed, we don't develop near as quickly as many other countries, but we don't really want to either tbh.

Guys peaking at 18stone aged 19 are going to have a huge trade off with longevity of career imo.

The difference between the Irish U19 squad and the U20 squad is insane. Consider 2/3 more years of conditioning and strength training, and most of the guys who are light, skillful and full of beans aged 18, can tone up, bulk up, and retain a lot of the skills and agility that they'd had before.

Whereas an 18 year old already at that weight / size, can struggle with mobility exercises, effectively becoming muscle bound by the exercises that they've pushed through at an early age. These guys will be doing Yoga and Pilates to try to push agility and flexibility back into their games, while others are getting stronger and sharper doing pitch and weight exercises (When they're 22-25).

There's also the problem with injuries, an overly large teen will struggle to recover from any injury far more than his limber Irish counterpart. Also, he will open himself up to new injuries that his Irish counterpart won't be susceptible to as his range of motion is limited by his "oversized" body.

There are costs and benefits to hitting the gym and eating like a horse early, but I think that we have the right idea, considering that there isn't many U7s leagues, there isn't rugby played on streets etc. Rugby is a small but growing sport in this country, and getting the skills through before getting the size up takes longer as a result.

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

GerM, you're completely neglecting the fact that many people haven't finished their "natural" growth before they're 17/18, and as a result, training for an attritional sport can make them far more injury prone.

There's a huge trade-off between speed of development and longevity of career, and I think that we've got it fairly right on the island here.

We really don't need to rush anyone through.

I'm not advocating the exposure of players to the professional game at 17/18, Emmet. I would agree that is lunacy and has been seen on here by people commenting on Gilsenan or McGrath possibly being involved at Pro12 level this season which is madness. But by the age of 20 (following a couple of years working in a training environment detailed to their requirements), I'm happy to see them introduced into the professional level if their conditioning has attained the necessary levels and the staff in the pro set up feel they are ready. I am sure (or would like to think) that those who are brought into the academy training environment are managed carefully and their training is tailored to ensure that they progress at the correct speed in relation to their natural growth.

I'm advocating the introduction of players at 20 years old due to an improved development system as opposed to 23 years old several years ago when they were only reaching the physical requirements then. The obvious examples are players like Ruddock and Ryan who seem to have been conditioned very well and are more than powerful enough for professional rugby whilst not having shipped any injuries at this point but obviously they've a long road ahead of them yet.

The training that takes place at schools level is hopefully being monitored to a degree also (and I would have thought it is). You're better placed to comment on that. As you say, players haven't finished their natural growth at that point so hopefully their training work keeps that in mind to an extent and the development staff in the provinces are mindful of that at provincial U18 levels when they have them together.

As you say, the balance seems to be fairly well adjusted in this country. Our players are coming through at around 20/21 now and look ready for the professional game without being muscle bound monsters that have neglected their skills but many do have the power required to compete still. I'm happy for these guys to come though if the development is at the correct level and the staff believe they're adequately prepared.

LEIN

From Leinster Rugby Facebook page.

We would like to clarify that there is no Heineken Jersey this season. The Home jersey, pictured, is what we will wear in the Heineken Cup.

We feel it is unfair to launch a Heineken Jersey in the same year as a new home jersey.

There will be a "3rd" jersey released in the coming weeks, but this is not intendend for wear in the Heineken Cup specifically.

http://www.facebook.com/leinsterrugby

keanecm

GerM wrote: »

I'm not advocating the exposure of players to the professional game at 17/18, Emmet. I would agree that is lunacy and has been seen on here by people commenting on Gilsenan or McGrath possibly being involved at Pro12 level this season which is madness. But by the age of 20 (following a couple of years working in a training environment detailed to their requirements), I'm happy to see them introduced into the professional level if their conditioning has attained the necessary levels and the staff in the pro set up feel they are ready. I am sure (or would like to think) that those who are brought into the academy training environment are managed carefully and their training is tailored to ensure that they progress at the correct speed in relation to their natural growth.

I'm advocating the introduction of players at 20 years old due to an improved development system as opposed to 23 years old several years ago when they were only reaching the physical requirements then. The obvious examples are players like Ruddock and Ryan who seem to have been conditioned very well and are more than powerful enough for professional rugby whilst not having shipped any injuries at this point but obviously they've a long road ahead of them yet.

The training that takes place at schools level is hopefully being monitored to a degree also (and I would have thought it is). You're better placed to comment on that. As you say, players haven't finished their natural growth at that point so hopefully their training work keeps that in mind to an extent and the development staff in the provinces are mindful of that at provincial U18 levels when they have them together.

As you say, the balance seems to be fairly well adjusted in this country. Our players are coming through at around 20/21 now and look ready for the professional game without being muscle bound monsters that have neglected their skills but many do have the power required to compete still. I'm happy for these guys to come though if the development is at the correct level and the staff believe they're adequately prepared.

In general I would agree with everything being said. But I think in some cases if your good enough your old enough, and I think Luke McGrath is an example of this. Plus he is quite well physically developed for a scrum half his age. Other examples of "good enough is old enough" are Luke Fitz, and George Ford who played for Leicester when he was 16.

Also given the current structures in Irish rugby it is highly unlikely to ever have a 16/17 year old playing for Leinster 1st vx as they are not eligible until they are out of the schools/youths system. Therefore a George Ford/James O'Connor scenario I cant see happening.

durkadurka

tolosenc wrote: »

You're forgetting the fact that SOB isn't actually human, there...

The result of a chance encounter between Chuck Norris and a Rhino apparently.

shuffol

Anybody feel that Dominic Ryan bulked up a little too much last season and lost some of his dynamism as a result, thought he had the ideal physique for an openside a year ago which I think is his best position but it looks like Leinster see him as a 6 and his physique seemed to change over the season to suit that position.

GerM

shuffol wrote: »

Anybody feel that Dominic Ryan bulked up a little too much last season and lost some of his dynamism as a result, thought he had the ideal physique for an openside a year ago which I think is his best position but it looks like Leinster see him as a 6 and his physique seemed to change over the season to suit that position.

Don't know about that. Ryan played the majority of his rugby in the latter half of the season at 7 and played well there. He's not a traditional groundhog 7 but did very well there and put in some good performances. He is not actually that massive a player. According to his stats he's 98kg which isn't that big; he's actually lighter than the likes of Jennings but he's exceptionally powerful for his size. I don't think he has lost any dynamism, he's very quick for a flanker. Check out his pace last season away to Glasgow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvWcEa0HZf0

shuffol

That clip was opening day of last season, it could just my imagination but I thought he looked heavier as the season went on and lost some of his sharpness around the breakdown, when I saw him for the Irish under 20s and in some of his early Leinster appearances I thought he did look like he could become an excellent groundhog style 7. Wouldnt be so sure about his stats, I imagine they could well be a year old.