Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

totallegend

Realistically, if Leinster cannot give the Heineken Cup a good rattle, and by that I mean semi-finals, without Brian O'Driscoll then our claim to being the best team in Europe will be shown up badly.

I'm not too worried, I think:
a) either McFadden or Luke will do a reasonable job at 13. This talk of switching Nacewa in there is nonsense, IMO (and it certainly won't help Ireland).
b) we have plenty of leaders in the team with Cullen, Jennings, Heaslip, Sexton etc.
c) we got on reasonably well without him in last year's pool; a losing bonus point in Clermont and an away win at Saracens are excellent results no matter who we have playing, and Luke Fitz and EOM acquitted themselves well at 13 in those matches.
d) BOD has shown himself to be a quick healer in the past (or maybe he's come back when not fully healed...) so we may yet seem him for some of the campaign.

That said, I'm not sure we'd have beaten Toulouse without him last year. As for the final, well you could point the finger at him for that missed tackle for the Northampton try, and when he broke the line in the first half but got tackled five metres out, would Foden have caught McFadden?

A win on Saturday would be a massive boost for everyone concerned, a defeat will have the players questioning themselves and it could all go pear-shaped. Damn I love the Heineken Cup.

iamjenko

Watching that highlight reel of the final, you'd forget what a massive influence Horgan can be and was in the run to the final last year. While its a massive to lose both BOD and Horgan at the same time it says a lot for the strength in depth that we can still have a lot of faith in their replacements!

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

That said, I'm not sure we'd have beaten Toulouse without him last year. As for the final, well you could point the finger at him for that missed tackle for the Northampton try, and when he broke the line in the first half but got tackled five metres out, would Foden have caught McFadden?

Would he have caught him? No. Would McFadden have read the situation and hit the line at the right time? Not 100% on that. BOD isn't the player he was but his ability to come up with the big play at the crucial time is unparalleled. The turn over and break against Wales that led to our opening score. The pick and go from the ruck that led to our first try against Northampton. What he lacks in mobility and pace he almost makes up for these days in rugby intelligence and reading of the game. There's not another player in the country that would have scored those tries against England and NZ in the past year. Hopefully he can come back fit and use his experience and brain to have one last hurrah. I'd love to see him part of a winning Lions squad even if it is hugely unlikely.

justsomebloke

totallegend wrote: »

Realistically, if Leinster cannot give the Heineken Cup a good rattle, and by that I mean semi-finals, without Brian O'Driscoll then our claim to being the best team in Europe will be shown up badly.

The problem is we are going to have to do it without BOD and Hines this year both of whom are massive loses you could probably also throw shaggy in as a big loss.

So it's a bit unfair to say that he would have been the only player to make a difference between this year and last

iroced

totallegend wrote: »

A win on Saturday would be a massive boost for everyone concerned, a defeat will have the players questioning themselves and it could all go pear-shaped. Damn I love the Heineken Cup.

I hardly see how you reasonably would not manage to beat us on Saturday. I mean if Montpellier beats Leinster it'll have to be the greatest achievement of the HCup history. You're the (impressive) defending champion. That's our first ever participation in the competition. 1 year and a half ago, we were just fighting to stay in the top 14. We had a fantastic but totally unexpected season last year. Lots of credit to the Galthié/Béchu duo. They implemented a nice offensive rugby that was boosted by the early victories in the Top 14. And with confidence sky high the team overachieved.

But this season, we're back to the bottom. The WC was very penalising for us as with our major players away and a few injuries, we struggled to field 15 players (Galthié had to give their chance to a few youngsters). As a result we had a catastrophic start in the Top 14. The internationals are back now but haven't yet played a game. And last week-end, we didn't play because of the mumps epidemic in Lyon, so we might lack rhythm.

Anyway, I'm not too sure how we'll play this competition as clearly the main objective is to fight our way back up in the top 14. We're the rookies in the HCup and it's a dream start against the number one team in Europe in La Mosson (35000 places football stadium). The only pro is that we have absolutely nothing to lose. In fairness the defensive bonus point would already be an achievement and will be remembered as a successful entrance in the competition.

totallegend

justsomebloke wrote: »

The problem is we are going to have to do it without BOD and Hines this year both of whom are massive loses you could probably also throw shaggy in as a big loss.

So it's a bit unfair to say that he would have been the only player to make a difference between this year and last

Not saying that at all, but I think most Leinster fans would have been confident of a pool win at least up to a week ago whereas now things are a bit less rosy and the only thing that has changed in the meantime is BOD. Hines is a massive loss, we're agreed on that but Leinster will have planned accordingly and likewise it's been flagged for a while that Horgan would be out, but losing O'Driscoll a week before the start of the HC is not something Schmidt will have anticipated.

iroced wrote: »

I hardly see how you reasonably would not manage to beat us on Saturday. I mean if Montpellier beats Leinster it'll have to be the greatest achievement of the HCup history.

Steady on!

wixfjord

iroced wrote: »

I hardly see how you reasonably would not manage to beat us on Saturday. I mean if Montpellier beats Leinster it'll have to be the greatest achievement of the HCup history. You're the (impressive) defending champion. That's our first ever participation in the competition. 1 year and a half ago, we were just fighting to stay in the top 14. We had a fantastic but totally unexpected season last year. Lots of credit to the Galthié/Béchu duo. They implemented a nice offensive rugby that was boosted by the early victories in the Top 14. And with confidence sky high the team overachieved.

But this season, we're back to the bottom. The WC was very penalising for us as with our major players away and a few injuries, we struggled to field 15 players (Galthié had to give their chance to a few youngsters). As a result we had a catastrophic start in the Top 14. The internationals are back now but haven't yet played a game. And last week-end, we didn't play because of the mumps epidemic in Lyon, so we might lack rhythm.

Anyway, I'm not too sure how we'll play this competition as clearly the main objective is to fight our way back up in the top 14. We're the rookies in the HCup and it's a dream start against the number one team in Europe in La Mosson (35000 places football stadium). The only pro is that we have absolutely nothing to lose. In fairness the defensive bonus point would already be an achievement and will be remembered as a successful entrance in the competition.

Do you reckon that Montpellier will be focusing on staying up now rather than the HEC?

I think, given the way things have panned out, it's a pretty good time to be playing Montpellier.
The French stars haven't played since the WC, they're at the bottom of the Top 14, and we've a good game under our belt, with no injuries.

Two wins from this and the Glasgow game would be what I'm after, although I'm under no illusions that it should be a toughie on Sat.

What a competition though!

vinny chase

I don't think we'd be being honest with ourselves if we didn't acknowledge that we certainly didn't get the worst of draws. That said; the losses of all three (Drico, Hines & Shaggy) are all huge in different ways.

I've been impressed with Toner this season, but he still isn't giving us that absolute hard edge that Hines put into the pack.

Shaggy will always be one of my very favourite Leinster players; his tendency to score crucial tries for Leinster and Ireland can't be underestimated.

Noticed how many times on Friday night Sexton switched the point of the restart to put it up on Earls (for the first one) and thereafter most of the time on Barnes. He was generally, imo, placing the kicks nicely and I know we recovered some ball on these, but we definitely miss Shaggy's abilities in this regard.

We've never really been a 15man team, and certainly haven't been for the past 4 seasons at least. We have a squad, we'll use them.

No use pretending we have like for like swaps available to us, but the guys that are there have stepped up before. I'm pretty excited at seeing how the challenges pan out.

wixfjord

I agree, I think that this was bound to happen at some stage, and better it happened now post WC, when the man has won two HECs, and when we have plenty of time and players to slot in than before another HEC final or something.

I'm very interested to see the teams in the next few weeks.

Anyone think we could see an interesting one against Glasgow in the RDS if we win this Sat?
I think Ryan, Hagan, Cronin, O Malley etc could all start against Glasgow.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

wrt BOD, there's definitely an element of Gaillimh about him these days. The things that he does on the pitch without the ball these days are just as important for the team as he does with the ball. He reorganises the backline constantly, and there is no better 13 at the "shooter" defence that we can use against teams with quick half backs. The thing that's important about such a defence is not to always make your tackle, it's to always force the first receiver into making the decision a split second sooner. This is a double edged sword if you get it wrong though, as if the 13 is in any way out of position, forcing the first receiver to throw a pass quicker than he normally would can cost you hugely, as a good pass will almost certainly put the opposition over the gain line.

He's not the player he once was in terms of always making space, always finding gaps, but he's still the type of player that with 3 minutes on the clock, and trailing by 4, you want to be trying to get the ball to as often as possible.

Let's not also forget that because of who he is he also has a tendency to draw defenders just by being there. Because he is BOD he attracts their attention which can be exploited by those around him.

vinny chase wrote: »

I've been impressed with Toner this season, but he still isn't giving us that absolute hard edge that Hines put into the pack.

Hines is a huge loss. Not just his hard edge but his handling and passing were excellent as well. He wasn't afraid to keep the ball moving when required instead of going into contact. I'd hoped Sykes was going to fill that role but there's not much sign of that happening so far.

GerM

wixfjord wrote: »

Anyone think we could see an interesting one against Glasgow in the RDS if we win this Sat?
I think Ryan, Hagan, Cronin, O Malley etc could all start against Glasgow.

Given what happened against Glasgow earlier this season I don't think we'll be so cavalier. I can see the usual changes possibly taking place. Loosehead, scrum half, possibly a change in the backrow with McLaughlin coming in. I don't think we'll see Cronin or EOM get a start.

molloyjh

wixfjord wrote: »

I agree, I think that this was bound to happen at some stage, and better it happened now post WC, when the man has won two HECs, and when we have plenty of time and players to slot in than before another HEC final or something.

I'm very interested to see the teams in the next few weeks.

Anyone think we could see an interesting one against Glasgow in the RDS if we win this Sat?
I think Ryan, Hagan, Cronin, O Malley etc could all start against Glasgow.

I'm sure they'll fancy their chances here after a few weeks ago and we'll be looking to atone for that slip up. I doubt we'll see many changes. Maybe one or two (Ryan for example) but that's it.

justsomebloke

molloyjh wrote: »

Hines is a huge loss. Not just his hard edge but his handling and passing were excellent as well. He wasn't afraid to keep the ball moving when required instead of going into contact. I'd hoped Sykes was going to fill that role but there's not much sign of that happening so far.

Hines was generally also our replacement SH when our number 9 was in the scrum, somehow I just can picture toner as a secondary SH

XVs will be something like this

1. VdM
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Boss
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. D'Arcy
13. McFadden
14. Nacewa
15. Kearney

followed by the Glasgow game with

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Hagan/White
4. Cullen (will be calling as much gametime onto himself as possible after holding bags at the WC)
5. Browne/Sykes
6. McLaughlin
7. Ryan
8. Ruddock
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Fitz
13. O'Malley
14. Carr
15. Nacewa

imo

totallegend

I don't see Leinster making wholesale changes for the Glasgow game, especially if we win against Montpelier. Those early Sunday games have a funny effect on the team and the crowd plus Glasgow have already beaten us this year and the last thing we want to do is give them more motivation by fielding anything other than our strongest side.

I think if #13 (whoever it is) plays well in France, he has to be left there the following week, regardless of what else happens.

iroced

wixfjord wrote: »

Do you reckon that Montpellier will be focusing on staying up now rather than the HEC?

I think, given the way things have panned out, it's a pretty good time to be playing Montpellier.
The French stars haven't played since the WC, they're at the bottom of the Top 14, and we've a good game under our belt, with no injuries.

Yes.

We are a young team that is constantly progressing for over 10 years now. We have a beautiful "new" (made for the WC 2007 even though all big games are played in the football stadium) stadium (capacity 15 000). We have a "golden" generation with a few very good players that made it to international level ("the fantastic 4" they used to call them a few years ago: Trinh-Duc/Ouedraogo/Thomas/Picamoles(now at Toulouse)) who still need and have the potential to improve. So getting relegated would be a disaster and would destroy all our ambitions.

Then, I don't know which team we're gonna put on Saturday. But as you summarised, it's the worst time for us to play such a big team. There's no confidence in our team at the moment. And the internationals are just back. Trinh-Duc seemed very affected bu the WC final defeat so I'm not sure in which state of mind he'll be. He's clearly our "star" player even though Gorgodze and Ouedraogo have key roles in the team.

What seems sure to me is that the HCup will just be a way of "forgetting" the Top 14. Maybe trying new things to find a bit of confidence in our playing, no matter the result. Because we're 12th in the Top 14 with a game in hand in Lyon (they are 13th so it could be one of the most important game of the season) and after that, during the period spanning over the 4 first games of the HCup, we'll have a terrible run of fixtures in the Top 14 : Clermont (H), Biarritz (A) (Biarritz are doing absolute sh/te at the moment being last in the league so this is gonna be an 8 points game to use a football expression), Toulouse (H), Racing Metro 92 (H).

That being said a victory over Leinster would overboost our confidence. But let's face it honestly. We have (almost) no chance.

totallegend wrote: »

iroced wrote: »

I hardly see how you reasonably would not manage to beat us on Saturday. I mean if Montpellier beats Leinster it'll have to be the greatest achievement of the HCup history.

Steady on!

Yeah I may have been a tad over the top here but realistically this is like last year Auxerre-Real Madrid in soccer (and it's possible to try and keep a 0-0 and hope for a counter attack in soccer where in rugby this tactic is impossible).

wixfjord

Sean O Brien on Ear to The Ground now lads!

I presume that's a milestone for a Leinster player!

Burgo

wixfjord wrote: »

Sean O Brien on Ear to The Ground now lads!

I presume that's a milestone for a Leinster player!

Bought a tractor with his first pay cheque :pac:

tolosenc

wixfjord wrote: »

Sean O Brien on Ear to The Ground now lads!

I presume that's a milestone for a Leinster player!

"They're more into their cars up there." - Sean O'Brien on buying a tractor with his first Leinster paycheque.

But those videos of him as a ten year old, he played then as he does now.

danthefan

Deleted User wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Hagan/White
4. Cullen (will be calling as much gametime onto himself as possible after holding bags at the WC)
5. Browne/Sykes
6. McLaughlin
7. Ryan
8. Ruddock
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Fitz
13. O'Malley
14. Carr
15. Nacewa

imo

For a HEC game? What are you smoking?

wixfjord

Deleted User wrote: »

XVs will be something like this

1. VdM
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. SOB
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip
9. Boss
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. D'Arcy
13. McFadden
14. Nacewa
15. Kearney

followed by the Glasgow game with

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Hagan/White
4. Cullen (will be calling as much gametime onto himself as possible after holding bags at the WC)
5. Browne/Sykes
6. McLaughlin
7. Ryan
8. Ruddock
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Fitz
13. O'Malley
14. Carr
15. Nacewa

imo

For the Glasgee game, presuming we win in France, I'd have:
Healy,
Cronin
Hagan
Cullen
Toner
SOB
Ryan
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fitz
Darcy
MCF
D Kearney
Isa

We'll need to rotate a little given the marathon nature of the next 13 games, and I think the changes wouldn't have much of an impact on the team.

Bench of something like Ross, VDM, Sykes, Locky, Ruddok, Reddan, Madigan, Carr

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

For a HEC game? What are you smoking?

"followed by the Glasgow game with"

...

wixfjord

danthefan wrote: »

For a HEC game? What are you smoking?

There has to be some element of rotation imo.
We're always banging on about our strength in depth, what's the point of having it there if you don't use it?
I agree, that team looks a bit funny, but we should be looking to give guys like Hagan, Ryan, Sykes, Cronin etc gametime.

CIARAN_BOYLE

For this weekend in the HEC

Healy Strauss Ross Cullen Toner SOB Ryan Heaslip Boss Sexton Fitzgerald D'arcy McFadden Nacewa Kearney
Cronin VDM Hagan Sykes Jennings Redden Madigan DKearney

For this weekend in the B&I cup vs Esher this would be the strongest available team imo however there are a lot of youngsters that could play instead.
McGrath Dundon White Browne Flanagan McLaughlin Ruddock Auva Cooney Reid Carr EOM Macken Hudson Conway
Sexton O'Connell CRuddock Murphy McGrath Marsh Coghlan-Murray

wixfjord

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

For this weekend in the HEC

Healy Strauss Ross Cullen Toner SOB Ryan Heaslip Boss Sexton Fitzgerald D'arcy McFadden Nacewa Kearney
Cronin VDM Hagan Sykes Jennings Redden Madigan DKearney

For this weekend in the B&I cup vs Esher this would be the strongest available team imo however there are a lot of youngsters that could play instead.
McGrath Dundon White Browne Flanagan McLaughlin Ruddock Auva Cooney Reid Carr EOM Macken Hudson Conway
Sexton O'Connell CRuddock Murphy McGrath Marsh Coghlan-Murray

:eek::eek::eek:
I'm flabbergasted when people want to drop Jennings when he's fit. He's a vital cog in our team, on way he won't start this weekend. That'll be the team alright, with Jennings in it, and I'd say O Malley and Locky will come into the bench.

totallegend

Maxine Wrong Grits wrote: »

danthefan wrote: »

For a HEC game? What are you smoking?

"followed by the Glasgow game with"

...

Your post reads like the second xv you've listed is the team you'd pick against Glasgow, is that not what you meant?

Playing that side would be bananas frankly.

totallegend

totallegend wrote: »

Your post reads like the second xv you've listed is the team you'd pick against Glasgow, is that not what you meant?

Playing that side would be bananas frankly.

yeah clearly. First XV for the HEC game, second XV for the Glasgow game.

Why would I start McLaughlin, Ryan and Ruddock in a HEC opener?!

CIARAN_BOYLE

wixfjord wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:
I'm flabbergasted when people want to drop Jennings when he's fit. He's a vital cog in our team, on way he won't start this weekend. That'll be the team alright, with Jennings in it, and I'd say O Malley and Locky will come into the bench.

I know jennings is more likely but sometimes you have to take a bit of a risk and see if a young player can take on the job with the full team around him in a big game and I feel it might be time to throw in Ryan

If not this week then try it against Glasgow in the HEC

wixfjord

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah clearly. First XV for the HEC game, second XV for the Glasgow game.

Why would I start McLaughlin, Ryan and Ruddock in a HEC opener?!

I think wires crossed here, what many are saying is, why start them in any sort of a HEC game.

I'd agree, you don't drop the likes of Heaslip, Darcy and SOB for any HEC game.