Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

wixfjord

phog wrote: »

You're also talking crap, Munster's special relationship couldn't have been down soley to winning, we didn't win the H/C until 20006, our support was massive from 2000. Have you realised we're in a recession maybe the privileged still the same disposable income but I know I dont and now pick and choose what games I go to, hence I didn't travel to the Aviva this season.

I know nothing of CBC and PBC but the majority of pupils attending Munchins would be from a working class background.

What's the population of Leinster and Munster?

Yes, since 2000 when Munster got into the semi finals.
There's not much point arguing with you, you'll never admit anything, but anyone looking at it objectively will see that Munster is nowhere near as "salt of the earth" as is made out, and Leinster is nowhere near as "D4" as is made out.
Recession is absolutely part of it (sure the working class Munster demographic would be feeling the pinch more than most ), but look at last weeks game. Munster fans were very downbeat going into it, and the game was barely sold out. This is a HEC first round game against an English team we're talking about!

I've no more to say on the matter, if you want to delude yourself into following Hook, Thornley et al into believing Munster are the "people's team" and Leinster are only supported by people who caused the banking crisis go ahead, just don't get caught in the traffic coming from Laois, Kildare, Offaly, Louth, Meath, Wicklow and Wexford next time you visit the RDS eh?

GerM

Can we not get this locked by abusing each other for once? It actually has potential for a half rational discussion.

Phog's right. Munchins isn't fee paying nor is it known to be particularly middle class. Somewhere like Crescent would be more in that bracket I would have though as it's a former fee paying school. For the most part, Limerick players are not from privately educated backgrounds although that's not to say they're not from comfortable socio-economic backgrounds either.

EDIT: They got to the final in 2000, wixfjord.

desertcircus

I've honestly not felt an attitude of snobbery or wealth at a Leinster game. There are fans who happen to be quite well off (it'd be weird if there weren't), but they certainly don't spend the game looking down on anyone. The D4 idea isn't real anymore, if it ever was, and talk about it nowadays seems to come exclusively from a specific set of people who dislike Leinster.

phog

wixfjord wrote: »

Yes, since 2000 when Munster got into the semi finals.
There's not much point arguing with you, you'll never admit anything, but anyone looking at it objectively will see that Munster is nowhere near as "salt of the earth" as is made out, and Leinster is nowhere near as "D4" as is made out.
Recession is absolutely part of it (sure the working class Munster demographic would be feeling the pinch more than most ), but look at last weeks game. Munster fans were very downbeat going into it, and the game was barely sold out. This is a HEC first round game against an English team we're talking about!

I've no more to say on the matter, if you want to delude yourself into following Hook, Thornley et al into believing Munster are the "people's team" and Leinster are only supported by people who caused the banking crisis go ahead, just don't get caught in the traffic coming from Laois, Kildare, Offaly, Louth, Meath, Wicklow and Wexford next time you visit the RDS eh?

Where have I said anything about Leinster being D4? In fact, if you search this forum I actually mentioned the D4tress banner as being an excellent banner in the RDS during one of the L V M games.

Recession - how many jobs have been created in the Midwest in the last two years? How many jobs have been created in the greater Dublin area?

Re last week game in TP, most of the tickets that came available came from the Saints, I wonder could their supporters afford the cost of travelling? Why didn't the RDS sell out for the ML Semifinal final last year when a couple of years earlier the same 2 teams filled Lansdowne Rd?

eoferrall

phog wrote: »

Where have I said anything about Leinster being D4? In fact, if you search this forum I actually mentioned the D4tress banner as being an excellent banner in the RDS during one of the L V M games.

Recession - how many jobs have been created in the Midwest in the last two years? How many jobs have been created in the greater Dublin area?

Re last week game in TP, most of the tickets that came available came from the Saints, I wonder could their supporters afford the cost of travelling? Why didn't the RDS sell out for the ML Semifinal final last year when a couple of years earlier the same 2 teams filled Lansdowne Rd?

he didn't say you, he said as is being made out in the thread. read the conversation over last few days. it's posters complaining 'leinster is D4'. hence the debate and the annoyance at the same posters (from leinster) supporting munster because they are the 'salt of the earth'.

All media driven and no truth to either of the teams, both would have fairly similar make up to me.

Burgo

From the Northside myself and have been a Leinster supporter since my early teens, and I come from an area with a massive GAA following, but in the past two years I have noticed an increasing number of people wearing Leinster gear and flags around the place, and on my way in to work every morning going through drumcondra there is always loads of people wearing Leinster gear, tis a great sight.

Kinger83

phog wrote: »

Why didn't the RDS sell out for the ML Semifinal final last year when a couple of years earlier the same 2 teams filled Lansdowne Rd?

Probably because the HEC final was on the following weekend and a lot of people put their money towards tickets, travelling etc for that.

I think you'll find people from all backgrounds supporting Leinster and Munster. That's one of the great things about it these days, there was a time when certain people frowned on rugby being played in this country so we've come a long way.

Foxtrol

phog wrote: »

Re last week game in TP, most of the tickets that came available came from the Saints, I wonder could their supporters afford the cost of travelling? Why didn't the RDS sell out for the ML Semifinal final last year when a couple of years earlier the same 2 teams filled Lansdowne Rd?

The game didn't sell out because we had a HC Final on the horizon and as this wasn't a season ticket match some people had make a priority. Despite Leinster having the HC final they actually had more supporters in the RDS than Munster managed to get into Thomond, despite not having anything else to play for (14,476 vs 13,147).

I still know a few people who have the same thought process as TomsOnTheRoof and I honestly see them clinging/wishing that it is still a "D4" team so they dont have to face the fact that they have no longer have any excuse not to support their own province (not that I think they had any excuse in the first place).

"Haters gonna hate".

On all sides.

wixfjord

Thank God most people have more sense.
I'd hate to think that this ridiculous hypothesis is still in vogue around Ireland.
Supporters from all backgrounds follow Leinster, just like Munster, Ulster and Connacht.
There's always going to be an upper class element following rugby, and that's great, and it happens in every province and every club around the country. One province in particular doesn't hold a monopoly on passion, heart and salt of the earth supporters, but it was portrayed that way, and still is to some degree.

chancer12

phog wrote: »

You're also talking crap, Munster's special relationship couldn't have been down soley to winning, we didn't win the H/C until 20006, our support was massive from 2000. Have you realised we're in a recession maybe the privileged still the same disposable income but I know I dont and now pick and choose what games I go to, hence I didn't travel to the Aviva this season.

I know nothing of CBC and PBC but the majority of pupils attending Munchins would be from a working class background.

What's the population of Leinster and Munster?

Phog, have you lost the plot? Munchins is a totally middle-class school right in the middle of suburbia, they have a justifiably proud tradition of being rugby men, but very definitely middle-class ones!

justsomebloke

this is just a preemptive warning to people to be civil etc as this topic can spiral out of control pretty quickly

Big Nelly

phog wrote: »

Why didn't the RDS sell out for the ML Semifinal final last year when a couple of years earlier the same 2 teams filled Lansdowne Rd?

This statement has been made 3-4 times already.

I was at every match last season in RDS or in Aviva but I missed this one, I was going to Cardiff from the Friday to Sunday the following weekend and decided to leave this match. I think the same can be said about a lot of fans. I know the 5 lads that go to all the matchs with me done the exact same.


Cant see the big issue here but seems like this comes up every few weeks on here

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

You're also talking crap, Munster's special relationship couldn't have been down soley to winning, we didn't win the H/C until 20006, our support was massive from 2000.?

Axel Foley thinks it is anway, if you read his book. And you realise that Munster were very succesful in 2000 right? Before Munster were succesful they were just as popular as Leinster were at the same time. They became succcesful and rocketed ahead, and then Leinster caught up somewhat from 2009 onwards.


I'm from Kildare. I was a season ticket holder for a long time until last year (live abroad now). When I first started attending games there was very much a south Dublin feel to them (D4 is a stupid term because the fools who use it are generally referring to people from places outside D4) but there was very definitely a larger minority of fans like myself from all over the province. As the RDS and Leinster became more and more popular that changed more and more and nowadays I don't think you'd notice it at all, if you went in there without preconceived notions and unfair bias.

The truth is though that we'll never be able to convince Lunsters that their provincial team isn't a D4-dominated boys club where everyone sips hot whiskey while laughing about the banking crisis. These people abandoned their own province for success and need a way to justify that to themselves, and so they pretend they don't like the fans and they pretend it's full of D4s. If they didn't do that then they'd have no reason to be the turncoats that they are!

Farold

A few things:

• There is not one player on the Leinster team from Dublin 4.
• Dublin 4 contains massive working class areas such as Ringsend and Irishtown
• Leinster have fewer players in their squad from fee-paying schools than Munster
• Leinster have much more varied representation of players from different counties than any other province (maybe Ulster would contend that, I'm not sure)
• Leinster have made a huge effort to make in-roads in traditional GAA and soccer dominated areas such as Clondalkin, Tallaght, Ballymun.

Pictures from the Ballymun National school blitz



Lets look at the Leinster players in the starting 15 from the province...
Healy - Clontarf (shock - northside Dublin)
Cullen - Wicklow
Toner - Kildare
O'Brien - Carlow
Jennings - Rathfarnham, Dublin 14
Heaslip - Kildare
Sexton - Rathgar, Dublin 6
Fitzgerald - Wicklow
D'arcy - Wexford
O'Driscoll - Clontarf (shock -northside Dublin)
Horgan - Meath
Rob Kearney - Louth

Where does the nonsense come from?

wixfjord

As an aside, Tallaght Rugby club is one of the fastest growing clubs in the country I believe.
Huge numbers out there now.
It could really become a powerhouse if it keeps going the right way.

wixfjord

Mal on Toner from today's Indo:

MALCOLM O'KELLY knows a bit about making it as a beanpole second-row.

O'Kelly came through with St Mary's back in the pre-lifting days when giant second-rows like Martin Bayfield and Derwyn Jones were accommodated primarily for their line-out ability. At 6ft 8ins, O'Kelly was a noted exponent out of touch, but when lifting allowed shorter men greater opportunity to win ball, he had to widen his brief as professionalism eased out the skyscrapers in favour of mobile, multi-purpose locks who tended to measure in around the 6ft5ins mark.

That O'Kelly managed to do this successfully is emphasised by his 92 caps for Ireland and 183 appearances for his native province, and the two-time Lions tourist, who retired from rugby a couple of seasons ago, believes one of his successors at Leinster has the ability to embark on an equally productive international career.

Devin Toner is even taller than O'Kelly at 6ft 10ins and has been floating around the Leinster squad for the past four or five seasons, picking up three Ireland caps in the process, without ever nailing down a regular starting role next to captain Leo Cullen.

This season, with Nathan Hines gone to Clermont, O'Kelly believes it is time for Toner to kick on and says that with Damian Browne and Steven Sykes also on Leinster's books, he does not see any problems at second row for Leinster in the post-Hines era.

"This has to be a huge season for big Devin," said O'Kelly. "It is time for him to make his mark on the squad, be it coming on for Leo after 50 minutes or starting alongside Leo. Nathan Hines was exceptional and it was sad to see him go -- a great guy and a great player -- but Damian Browne is a really solid, hard-working player, perhaps not with the flair of Nathan but a good addition, and Steven Sykes is there as well.

"But it's very important now for Devin to step up. You look at Luke Charteris for Wales who was probably the form second-row at the World Cup, he has really come on and shown that you can be 6ft 10ins, 6ft 11ins and really effective.

"Devin has to use Charteris as a role model, whether he is there yet, he still has to prove but it shows that you can be a real force at that side."

O'Kelly is also expecting Jamie Heaslip to come to the fore as the season progresses, believing that the Lions No 8 should take on a more central role again, with Sean O'Brien garnering all the plaudits and attention in the Leinster and Ireland back-rows.

"It'll be really important for Jamie to reignite his performances," said O'Kelly. "The rise to power of the likes of Sean O'Brien in terms of ball-carrying has had an effect; Jamie is a different type of player, he plays more of a covering role, stealing ball on the ground, going wide, he plays a lot of different roles, taking on bad ball and so on.

"If I was giving Jamie advice it would be just to take more ball up -- what you want from a guy like him is yardage now because Sean O'Brien is going to be targeted with teams trying to mark him out of the game -- he certainly was against Wales.

"Jamie is a top player and it is the nature of the game, you always have to raise yourself and reach new standards and the likes of Seanie and Stephen Ferris have really raised the bar and Jamie is well capable of raising the bar again."

While accepting that the World Cup quarter-final defeat was "sickening" because he is convinced that Ireland would have beaten France in the semi-final, O'Kelly says there were a lot of positives to come out of the tournament and thinks the Heineken Cup is providing a welcome lift.

Battling

Leinster began their campaign to retain the title by battling back for a draw in Montpellier last weekend and O'Kelly believes, in the circumstances, it was an excellent result ahead of next weekend's home clash with Glasgow.

"It's very difficult to judge Leinster on the early part of the season because their squad was stretched to the limit during the World Cup," he said. "But they still found themselves up the table so in comparison to where they were this time last year, they are much more in touch.

"You could look at Montpellier and where they were at during the World Cup and suggest that maybe they are a team Leinster should be looking to beat. But the Heineken Cup always offers stiff challenges, especially away from home, and Montpellier showed last year how resilient they were, getting to the French final. The return of some of their key players rejuvenated them and for Leinster to snatch a last-minute draw was important because a loss would have been damaging.

"You can afford to lose the odd away match but, away from home, in the circumstances, a draw is a great result and now they can look to build on this as they head on into the competition."

Cpt_Blackbeard

chancer12 wrote: »

Phog, have you lost the plot? Munchins is a totally middle-class school right in the middle of suburbia, they have a justifiably proud tradition of being rugby men, but very definitely middle-class ones!

Have you ever been in the school? There is no chance that it is totally middle class. The students would be from a mixture of middle and working class backgrounds.

Would you consider Keith Earls middle class?

pajunior

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Have you ever been in the school? There is no chance that it is totally middle class. The students would be from a mixture of middle and working class backgrounds.

Would you consider Keith Earls middle class?

I know some lads who went to there, probably would be defined as lower middle class. It's a pick and mix like most "suburbs" in the country, you'll get a bit of everything.

Also didn't Keith Earls just go there in his senior years? Might be mixing him up with someone else.

chancer12

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Have you ever been in the school? There is no chance that it is totally middle class. The students would be from a mixture of middle and working class backgrounds.

Would you consider Keith Earls middle class?

Yes, I have been in the school. And I don't know what class Keith Earls is or how relevant it is to his ability as a rugby player. Like most Limerick schools Munchins is mixed year on year but with several friends sending boys to the school I have never heard mention of class as being an issue.

Rugby forum talking about "classes".

is there nothing else we can fight about?

GerM

pajunior wrote: »

Also didn't Keith Earls just go there in his senior years? Might be mixing him up with someone else.

Earls went to St. Nessans and went to Munchins only for his last couple of years. Same story with Danny Barnes.

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

Rugby forum talking about "classes".

is there nothing else we can fight about?

McFadden reportedly out for weekend according to LF, Nacewa is out of form or just nowhere near as good on wing, Leinster have no second row, Hagan isn't looking as good as hoped, opposition sides have figured out SOB, Darce is past it, Fitz is the future for Leinster centres, Sykes is in danger of becoming EOD Mark II.

Have at you!

Cpt_Blackbeard

GerM wrote: »

Earls went to St. Nessans and went to Munchins only for his last couple of years. Same story with Danny Barnes.

He originally went to Munchins in 1st year but he left or something. He was playing junior cup in first year afaik.

justsomebloke

Ok lads I think this conversation has now gone past the scope of this thread, so if yous want to continue it please start a new thread

WeeBushy

GerM wrote: »

McFadden reportedly out for weekend according to LF, Nacewa is out of form or just nowhere near as good on wing, Leinster have no second row, Hagan isn't looking as good as hoped, opposition sides have figured out SOB, Darce is past it, Fitz is the future for Leinster centres, Sykes is in danger of becoming EOD Mark II.

Have at you!

Don't forget: The great white hope at 7 (Ryan) appears to have picked up a bad injury, are back line are about as potent as a crippled emu without BOD, VdM has forgotten how to scrummage, deep down Sexton is a bottler, Heaslip is more interested in his facial hair than his performances.

Nothing like a bit of pessimism in a dreary Thursday morning!

Spud83

WeeBushy wrote: »

Don't forget: The great white hope at 7 (Ryan) appears to have picked up a bad injury, are back line are about as potent as a crippled emu without BOD, VdM has forgotten how to scrummage, deep down Sexton is a bottler, Heaslip is more interested in his facial hair than his performances.

Nothing like a bit of pessimism in a dreary Thursday morning!

Hate to make things worse for you but its only Wednesday.

irishbucsfan

Having watched the game back, I really am worried by VDM's scrummaging. Honestly, I genuinely think McGrath could be a better player than him now. As he is an NIQ maybe it's time to move him aside subtly?

On a more positive note, I think Nathan White looks good!

geekington

Is there a hope in hell that Dekkie would let Joe play Isa at 13???

funky penguin

Damn that Fijian cap....