Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

pajunior

justsomebloke wrote: »

The problem is BOD is out for the rest of this season and given his age you have to question what sort of player he will be and how many games he will be able to play if he comes back. I would also question if Darcy will be good enough next year to be an effective 12 especially in the big games.

So this could leave us with Fitz and McFadden as our centre partnership and you have to truthfully ask the question are they really the world class centres a team needs to compete in the highest level of HEC rugby? this would then lead to what would happen during Ireland windows as both players would probably be called up leaving Leinster without any centres with any real match experience.

Just because players aren't quite up to top class standards does not mean we should get NIQ's. If we have Irish players who can play at a HEC level then they deserve to start.
We're not going to replace BOD it's as simple as that, even if we went down the NIQ route we still wouldn't have anyone as good. We should think ourselves lucky for the times he is with us not unlucky for the times he is not. BOD is the exception not the rule. When he retires there will be a step down in quality that's just the way it is. Fitz or McFadden or EOM or someone else will step up to the plate. Munster supporters would crave that kind of depth of young Irish players in the center.

pajunior

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Rumour mill has it that NIQ allocation is down to 4+1 next season. Strauss qualifies next november and Berquist White and VDM all have contracts that expire at the end of this season.

Delighted about that, 4 more Irish players will be getting game time next season. If a team has so many holes in their team that they need 6 foreign players then you would have to worry.
Hopefully it will encourage more movement of players between provinces. I don't like that our second best TH is warming Leinster's bench if even that while a Kiwi and Springbok get HC starts with other teams. Obviously there is a lot more to where a player wants to play then just NIQ's but a near guaranteed start for Munster would turn just about anyones head.

justsomebloke

pajunior wrote: »

Just because players aren't quite up to top class standards does not mean we should get NIQ's. If we have Irish players who can play at a HEC level then they deserve to start.

Truthfully provinical rugby is only as popular as it is right now in Ireland due to the success of Irish teams success in the HEC. Take away that success and money will start diasppearing from the game quite quickly.

So my feeling is if you don't use some NIQ in key positions where Irish players just aren't good enough to have strength in depth then you are risking money coming into the game to use for the development of future palyers.

Squad rotation is the key factor in giving players their break through opportunities and getting up to the point where we can then get rid of the NIQ and that's how NIQ players should be used i.e. stop gaps until Irish players are as of a standard to replace them.

shuffol

Couple of quaity NIQs are also very important to holding a side together during international breaks. The likes of Nacewa isnt just important for the big games, he plays in just about every game unlike the Irish internationals who are away for weeks on end and are regularly rested for pro 12 games. Leinster have gotten great mileage out of him in particular.

wixfjord

Glasgee team:

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Peter Murchie
12 Graeme Morrison
11 Colin Shaw
10 Duncan Weir
9 Chris Cusiter
1 Ryan Grant
2 Pat MacArthur
3 Mike Cusack
4 Richie Gray
5 Al Kellock (Captain)
6 Rob Harley
7 John Barclay
8 Ryan Wilson

SUBSTITUTES
16 Finlay Gillies
17 Jon Welsh
18 Ed Kalman
19 Tom Ryder
20 Henry Pyrgos
21 Chris Fusaro
22 Troy Nathan
23 Federico Aramburu


Not a huge amount to fear there. 9 and 10 are good, and Weir can kick penalties from anywhere.
Second row is good, hopefully we can keep Gray quiet.

pajunior

I've nothing against NIQ's I just think 6 is maybe 2 too many.

And I would consider two internationals on the wane with two internationals on the rise as plenty of cover for two positions.
In my opinion NIQ's should be used like when Leinster had no-one to play TH so Green and La Roux and a few others were brought in, or when they had no fly-half so Contepomi was brought in. However we do have centers. The only position Leinster need and NIQ right now is at lock, Hooker (arguable) and 1 to cover LH. Nacewa is grand then to cover 10 - 15 so we have less worries there.

wixfjord

pajunior wrote: »

I've nothing against NIQ's I just think 6 is maybe 2 too many.

And I would consider two internationals on the wane with two internationals on the rise as plenty of cover for two positions.
In my opinion NIQ's should be used like when Leinster had no-one to play TH so Green and La Roux and a few others were brought in, or when they had no fly-half so Contepomi was brought in. However we do have centers. The only position Leinster need and NIQ right now is at lock, Hooker (arguable) and 1 to cover LH. Nacewa is grand then to cover 10 - 15 so we have less worries there.

Strauss is not a NIQ though.

pajunior

wixfjord wrote: »

Strauss is not a NIQ though.

Right now he is counted as our +1 which is still NIQ.

The debate about the +1 rule is for another thread though. I'll just say I'm no fan of it.

wixfjord

pajunior wrote: »

Right now he is counted as our +1 which is still NIQ.

The debate about the +1 rule is for another thread though. I'll just say I'm no fan of it.

Well he will be an Irish player, so you can't really say that he's keeping an Irish player out of the team imo.
He may not have a name like Cronin, but you've got to look at him as Irish imo, and if he adds as much as he does to Leinster, he'll certainly be welcomed with open arms.

irishbucsfan

justsomebloke wrote: »

The problem is BOD is out for the rest of this season and given his age you have to question what sort of player he will be and how many games he will be able to play if he comes back. I would also question if Darcy will be good enough next year to be an effective 12 especially in the big games.

So this could leave us with Fitz and McFadden as our centre partnership and you have to truthfully ask the question are they really the world class centres a team needs to compete in the highest level of HEC rugby? this would then lead to what would happen during Ireland windows as both players would probably be called up leaving Leinster without any centres with any real match experience.

1. Yes they really could be.

2. Do you really need world class centers to compete in the Heineken Cup? Munster won a Heineken Cup with Trevor Halstead and John Kelly in their centre. Northampton got to the final last year with James Downey and John boring Clarke. Luke Fitzgerald and Fergus McFadden could be a far more creative and exciting centre partnership than both of those succeful combinations.

Leinster are sorted in the centers. Should surely find something from McFadden, O'Malley, Fitzgerald and Macken or even Madigan (can't really see it happening myself yet). If those guys all don't pan out, THEN we can worry about paying an NIQ.

wixfjord

A team for Sunday:

15: Dave Kearney
14: Darren Hudson
13: Brendan Macken
12: Colm O’Shea
11: Andrew Conway
10: Noel Reid
9: John Cooney

1: Jack McGrath
2: Aaron Dundon
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Neilus Keogh
5: Mark Flanagan
6: Ciaran Ruddock CAPTAIN
7: Conor Gilsenan
8: Leo Auva’a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Jack O’Connell
17: Tom Sexton
18: Jordan Coughlan
19: Jack Conan
20: Luke McGrath
21: Cathal Marsh
22: Andrew Boyle

Couple of guys I don't know there. Anyone fill me in on Conan, Coughlan and Keogh?

No Sykes at all in either 22? Must be an injury?

GerM

wixfjord wrote: »

No Sykes at all in either 22? Must be an injury?

Hopefully but I wouldn't entirely count on it. Report from attendee last week on LF said he was pretty muck against Esher. Attitude seems to be poor. There was no comment on any injuries in the press release earlier this week. Interesting stuff to be honest.

CIARAN_BOYLE

wixfjord wrote: »

Couple of guys I don't know there. Anyone fill me in on Conan, Coughlan and Keogh?

No Sykes at all in either 22? Must be an injury?

Coghlan like Gilesenan is one the Clongoes SCT from last year. First year in the academy. 6"4 so maybe they are trying him out as lock cover

Keogh is the brother of Stephen Keogh, was an Ireland U20 a few years ago (same squad as Earls and Jones) although he only made the bench.

Don't have a clue about Conan

wixfjord

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Coghlan like Gilesenan is one the Clongoes SCT from last year. First year in the academy.

Keogh is the brother of Stephen Keogh, was an Ireland U20 a few years ago (same squad as Earls and Jones) although he only made the bench.

Don't have a clue about Conan

Ah yes, Coughlan is highly rated isn't he?

irishbucsfan

Young Sexton is back!

Coughlan is a Clongowes grad. Could be a good player.

Neilus Keogh is famous for having an odd name. Certainly was involved in the team before at some point because I brought up the name.

I don't know who Jack Conan is though, don't recall him from any underage teams.

GerM

Conan was the Irish U19 No. 8. Sub-academy.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Young Sexton is back!

Coughlan is a Clongowes grad. Could be a good player.

Neilus Keogh is famous for having an odd name. Certainly was involved in the team before at some point because I brought up the name.

I don't know who Jack Conan is though, don't recall him from any underage teams.

I think Keogh was on the bench against Ulster A earlier on in the season

irishbucsfan

GerM wrote: »

Conan was the Irish U19 No. 8. Sub-academy.

Pretty impressive for a sub-academy guy to be playing for the A team.

Unless Jordi Murphy and Ben Marshall are injured?

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pretty impressive for a sub-academy guy to be playing for the A team.

Unless Jordi Murphy and Ben Marshall are injured?

Think Murphy is injured. Marshall was taken off 20 minutes after coming on against Esher so assume he picked up a knock too.

GerM

wixfjord wrote: »

Ah yes, Coughlan is highly rated isn't he?

Quite highly rated although Gilsenan is probably the most highly rated from that Clongowes side. Coughlan was a very classy, footballing 8. Good hands, big enough bloke and quick. He wasn't entirely unlike Heaslip in how he played the game. Anyone that goes straight from schools into the full academy is one to watch.

Hype710

Interesting that Coughlan got ahead of Conan for the Academy. Conan was constantly being talked up by the likes of Cumiskey as being a top player. What i'm wondering is, did Leinster feel they had to offer Academy to Coghlan so he wouldn't take up that professional cricketing contract?

wixfjord

Bath team to play Montpellier:

Much stronger than last week. Donald gets his first start.
Brilliant back row.

15. Nick Abendanon

14. Olly Woodburn

13. Dan Hipkiss

12. Sam Vesty

11. Tom Biggs

10. Stephen Donald

9. Michael Claassens

1. David Flatman

2. Ross Batty

3. David Wilson

4. Stuart Hooper (c)

5. Ryan Caldwell

6. Francois Louw

7. Lewis Moody

8. Simon Taylor

Replacements

16. Mark Lilley

17. Charlie Beech

18. Anthony Perenise

19. Dave Attwood

20. Guy Mercer

21. Mark McMillan

22. Olly Barkley

23. Jack Cuthbert

Farold

How is Cooney ahead of McGrath????

Farold

Hype710 wrote: »

Interesting that Coughlan got ahead of Conan for the Academy. Conan was constantly being talked up by the likes of Cumiskey as being a top player. What i'm wondering is, did Leinster feel they had to offer Academy to Coghlan so he wouldn't take up that professional cricketing contract?

There could be a number of reasons. Leinster have, for example, held back academy contracts for players that need to mature. I'm not saying its the case here but Leinster are generally very cautious about who they give academy contracts to, talent is not the only factor they take into account.

irishbucsfan

Farold wrote: »

How is Cooney ahead of McGrath????

Cooney has been through the academy and played for the first team. McGrath is just out of secondary school. Is he even 19 yet?

As much as many view McGrath as the messiah, he isn't nearly up to the standard many perceive him to be at yet. People are expecting so much of the young lad so soon. Probably the same people who though Andrew Conway would be starting for Ireland at this stage.

Farold

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Cooney has been through the academy and played for the first team. McGrath is just out of secondary school. Is he even 19 yet?

As much as many view McGrath as the messiah, he isn't nearly up to the standard many perceive him to be at yet. People are expecting so much of the young lad so soon. Probably the same people who though Andrew Conway would be starting for Ireland at this stage.

I've seen him play many times, hes a lot better than Cooney.

Also who knows about Andrew Conway if he hadn't had such a torried time with injuries. The guy was top try scorer in the Junior World Cup playing with Ireland, he got 10 tries......the last person to do that is a current All Black (and its much easier to get 10 tries playing for New Zealand than Ireland!)

irishbucsfan

Farold wrote: »

I've seen him play many times, hes a lot better than Cooney.

Also who knows about Andrew Conway if he hadn't had such a torried time with injuries. The guy was top try scorer in the Junior World Cup playing with Ireland, he got 10 tries......the last person to do that is a current All Black (and its much easier to get 10 tries playing for New Zealand than Ireland!)

Have you seen him play at senior level many times? How many games has he even started at senior level?

I'm not a Cooney fan, but thinking that McGrath is going to come out of school capable of starting an axial position at professional level is just expecting far too much of him.

wixfjord

Farold wrote: »

I've seen him play many times, hes a lot better than Cooney.

Also who knows about Andrew Conway if he hadn't had such a torried time with injuries. The guy was top try scorer in the Junior World Cup playing with Ireland, he got 10 tries......the last person to do that is a current All Black (and its much easier to get 10 tries playing for New Zealand than Ireland!)

I agree that Conway has been hyped way too much.
He's still incredibly raw and has barely played ML for us yet!

GerM

Farold wrote: »

I've seen him play many times, hes a lot better than Cooney.

There's a significant difference between underage and senior. He's a fantastic prospect but you need to be conditioned physically to play the game at that level. Cooney has spent 3 years at it. McGrath has had a few months. Talent isn't much use if you're thrown around like a rag doll and then injured due to being unable to adjust to a faster, more intense game. I've no doubt he'll be better than Cooney when the time comes and his conditioning reaches a decent level though.

GerM

The Bath side that lost last week was seriously understrength. If they had won that game it really was game on for the group. They were missing Banahan, Mears, Moody, Barkley and Donald. Going to be a very different proposition when we face them. They'll still be missing Mears but their back row is going to be a seriously tough proposition. Louw and Moody are like rabid animals. Definitely one for Jennings, Healy and Strauss to start in.