Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Fireball07

molloyjh wrote: »

Franno floated the idea but it was quickly dropped. I think they were kind of making the point that there really isn't anyone we'd want to send down.

I can see why they wouldn't want to lose Conway but at the same time, with all the young backs they're bringing through, there must be someone who they'd be willing to let go to Munster. Although Munster mightn't want to let Nagle go either.

Cpt_Blackbeard

It would all depend on Jones' fitness and Zebo/O'Dea's ability to step up but, I don't think it would be a great deal for Munster. We would be much better off getting in a centre, backrow or prop. We have enough strength in the back 3 to serve us well going forward whereas Leinster need to find a lock or continue bringing in journeymen.

.ak

I wonder if the Route 6'6'' programme will yield any promising results...

.ak

Re-watching last years Round 1 HEC game... Interesting to see how well Kearney did before injury with Isa on the wing. Infact, exactly the same as the current starting back three at the mo: Fitz, Kearns and Isa. Fitz was on fire in that match before his form slipped. The tackles he put in were monster. Darce was also nearly man of the match... Interesting developments since then.

danthefan

.ak wrote: »

Re-watching last years Round 1 HEC game... Interesting to see how well Kearney did before injury with Isa on the wing. Infact, exactly the same as the current starting back three at the mo: Fitz, Kearns and Isa. Fitz was on fire in that match before his form slipped. The tackles he put in were monster. Darce was also nearly man of the match... Interesting developments since then.

You mean got injured.

.ak

Hmm.. Yeah, that's the catalyst, but his form slipped after it, as he admits in a recent interview. Trying to force things rather than think about it etc., etc.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Listening to the breakdown and Franno doesn't rate Sykes. The lads on the breakdown are suggesting a trade Conway or Carr for Nagle. They are saying Sykes was bad against Cardiff personally but I thought he was average enough.

After the result on Friday was beyond doubt, I went into 'player cam' mode and tried to follow Sykes, can't say I was terribly impressed by anything he did and he was particularly poor on a couple of restarts. He needs more gametime but I'd like to see something positive from him soon enough.

In other news, ticket sales for Bath game now up to 38,000, very impressive with two weeks still to go.

durkadurka

Leinster are flogging tickets cheap-there was a 20% off deal offered in my work.

Better to fill the place I suppose

WeeBushy

.ak wrote: »

I wonder if the Route 6'6'' programme will yield any promising results...

Directly from this one, I don't think so. But it will raise the profile of the game amongst people who, of a certain size, mightn't have thought of before. If continued with other positions it can only help raise the profile of Leinster in areas of little interest before.

profitius

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Listening to the breakdown and Franno doesn't rate Sykes. The lads on the breakdown are suggesting a trade Conway or Carr for Nagle. They are saying Sykes was bad against Cardiff personally but I thought he was average enough.

For Irish rugbys sake it would do no harm to loan them out for a few months. A win win for all involved.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It would all depend on Jones' fitness and Zebo/O'Dea's ability to step up but, I don't think it would be a great deal for Munster. We would be much better off getting in a centre, backrow or prop. We have enough strength in the back 3 to serve us well going forward whereas Leinster need to find a lock or continue bringing in journeymen.

If I was McGahan I'd be on the phone to Rhys Ruddock telling him there's a HEC spot for him in Munster. He's on a 1 year deal and I'm sure his head could be turned. Munster have a fair few back row players but I don't think TOD or Holland will be of HEC winning standard. A back row of Butler, POM and Ruddock could be fantastic in a few years.

Cpt_Blackbeard

GerM wrote: »

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It would all depend on Jones' fitness and Zebo/O'Dea's ability to step up but, I don't think it would be a great deal for Munster. We would be much better off getting in a centre, backrow or prop. We have enough strength in the back 3 to serve us well going forward whereas Leinster need to find a lock or continue bringing in journeymen.

If I was McGahan I'd be on the phone to Rhys Ruddock telling him there's a HEC spot for him in Munster. He's on a 1 year deal and I'm sure his head could be turned. Munster have a fair few back row players but I don't think TOD or Holland will be of HEC winning standard. A back row of Butler, POM and Ruddock could be fantastic in a few years.

Signing Ruddock would be a real possibility. He is a very similar player to SOB but hell probably never get ahead of him at 6. He doesn't have the same allegiance to Leinster as some of the other youngsters either. The biggest problem with him is that if you look at the Irish U20s, its clear to see that daddy Ruddock doesn't rate the underage setup/ players in Munster.

christianhughes

wixfjord wrote: »

Couple of great videos up on Blue Magic.ie

Are these from some DVD I wonder?

https://www.bluemagic.ie/champions-of-europe-ii/video/1/Recovering-Shaky-Start/

Hey wixfjord,

These aren't on any dvd, these are totally exclusive videos made for BlueMagic.ie.

disclaimer - I'm involved with the BlueMagic site


CH

ambid

GerM wrote: »

I think we're getting way ahead of ourselves in relation to Madigan. He has 13 senior starts to his name and is still a long way from where he needs to be if I was going to be genuinely comfortable with him starting a crunch HEC game let alone being in contention for international selection. He's a gifted runner and passer but there's more to playing 10 to a high level than that. His game management is still lacking significantly. His kicking from hand needs work as does his decision making. That will come with experience and I'm seriously impressed how far he has come in the past year but he still has some distance to go. I don't think a match goes by where he doesn't make a very noticeable mistake in his kicking from hand such as a bad kick out on the full or missing touch from a penalty. I think he's about 2 years away from being brought into the Irish training squad. He needs to tighten up his game and eradicate these errors. He certainly doesn't lack natural ability. However, I can say the exact same about Ian Humphreys or Ryan Lamb. He's actually not totally dissimilar to those guys currently but the one difference is he has shown the ability to develop and improve the weak points in his game and I've no doubt he will continue to do so.

Also, yes, he has to start to goal kick soon ahead of the likes of Nacewa if he wants to progress; this is Ireland and if you don't kick, you don't progress as a 10. He does kick but if he doesn't show he can be trusted in big provincial games he'll struggle to be go much further. And no, lets not take a very promising player in a position we're not overly blessed in and try and turn him into something else entirely where he wouldn't be able to move a backline or squeeze through midfield gaps.

There was an interesting debate on the Cardiff match thread on where Madigan ranks in the heirarchy of Irish fly halfs. Maybe I shouldn't bring it up again, but on the Breakdown Franno said he thought Madigan was currently third in the international squad, just behind Sexton and ROG. They were comparing him to Larkham (which I thought was just a little excessive).

I'm a big fan of Madigan, but suspect he'd have to be behind Keatley who is much more experienced at league level. Still though, his development has been extremely impressive. Last year many of us would have been nervous seeing Madigan's name on the teamsheet but now he really seems like a viable option.

Hopefully he'll continue to get lots of league starts and a couple of Wolfhound caps next Spring.

Hype710

I very much doubt ROG will travel to NZ next summer after saying he didn't feel it was worth it for him and missing his family on the tour in 2010 so that would open up the possibility for at least 1 of Keatley and Madigan to tour and gain international experience.

Burgo

Hype710 wrote: »

I very much doubt ROG will travel to NZ next summer after saying he didn't feel it was worth it for him and missing his family on the tour in 2010 so that would open up the possibility for at least 1 of Keatley and Madigan to tour and gain international experience.

Well like whats been said on here before, unless he starts kicking for goal its not going to happen.

ambid

Burgo wrote: »

Well like whats been said on here before, unless he starts kicking for goal its not going to happen.

Why? McFadden can kick goals and he will likely be in the squad next summer. Besides I don't think it's an issue, Madigan was goalkicker at underage levels and took a conversion for Leinster a couple of weeks ago. Leinster have four goalkickers (including Madigan) in the senior squad and there appears to be a heirarchy. In time I imagine Madigan will take on that responsibility.

In the meantime, it's great to be able to talk about options at fly half because a couple of years ago we were talking about the lack of Irish talent at fly half.

AtItAllDayRef

GerM wrote: »

If I was McGahan I'd be on the phone to Rhys Ruddock telling him there's a HEC spot for him in Munster. He's on a 1 year deal and I'm sure his head could be turned. Munster have a fair few back row players but I don't think TOD or Holland will be of HEC winning standard. A back row of Butler, POM and Ruddock could be fantastic in a few years.

Munster were onto Ruddock last season but he chose to stay for one season to see how progressed with the international players out for so much of the season. Munster should be looking at the likes of Ruddock and Dave Kearney at Leinster as well as the likes of O'Halloran and Griffin at Connacht. Guys like Macken and Conway should be on the radar as well.

vinny chase

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

Munster were onto Ruddock last season but he chose to stay for one season to see how progressed with the international players out for so much of the season. Munster should be looking at the likes of Ruddock and Dave Kearney at Leinster as well as the likes of O'Halloran and Griffin at Connacht. Guys like Macken and Conway should be on the radar as well.

Maybe they should be having a look at their own systems and developing their own young backs rather than attempting to raid the other provinces?

AtItAllDayRef

vinny chase wrote: »

Maybe they should be having a look at their own systems and developing their own young backs rather than attempting to raid the other provinces?

Like Leinster???? Cronin, Shawe, EOD, Reddan, Boss, Ross......

There is little difference in Munster's problems with developing back five players as there is with Leinsters problems in producing tight five players.

molloyjh

vinny chase wrote: »

Maybe they should be having a look at their own systems and developing their own young backs rather than attempting to raid the other provinces?

This all came from the fact that Leinster need another option at lock and Nagle was identified as a real option. The question was what would Munster get from the deal.

Personally I'd hate to see the likes of Conway or D Kearney go. D Kearney has been great this season and must be knocking on the door for HEC selection at this stage. Conway has only been out of the picture due to injury. He's been doing the business with the A side but hasn't managed to stay fit for long enough to break into the senior side. I've no idea who I would be happy to send down, but then Munster wouldn't be happy letting someone like Nagle go I'm sure. Don't see it happening myself.

vinny chase

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

Like Leinster???? Cronin, Shawe, EOD, Reddan, Boss, Ross......

There is little difference in Munster's problems with developing back five players as there is with Leinsters problems in producing tight five players.

There is no comparison at all between Munster raiding Connacht's backline to pilfer their best young players like Griffin and O'Halloran, or raiding Leinster's young talent like Conway, Macken, Kearney, Ruddock etc and Leinster signing guys like Simon Shawe (playing AIL rugby for Ballymena and in his late twenties), Ed O'Donoghue, Eoin Reddan (signed from Wasps) or Mike Ross (signed from Harlequins).

None of these guys were young developing players, they were seasoned pros.

Picking players from other's academies by promising them first team rugby elsewhere (especially given Munster's poor record of blooding their own youngsters in the first XV) is different entirely.

AtItAllDayRef

molloyjh wrote: »

This all came from the fact that Leinster need another option at lock and Nagle was identified as a real option. The question was what would Munster get from the deal.

Personally I'd hate to see the likes of Conway or D Kearney go. D Kearney has been great this season and must be knocking on the door for HEC selection at this stage. Conway has only been out of the picture due to injury. He's been doing the business with the A side but hasn't managed to stay fit for long enough to break into the senior side. I've no idea who I would be happy to send down, but then Munster wouldn't be happy letting someone like Nagle go I'm sure. Don't see it happening myself.

There needs to be more movement between the provinces especially with the IRFU reducing the NIQ quota. Guys like Foley and Nagle at Munster, Kearney Jnr and Macken at Leinster etc would benefit hugely from a move even it was structured as a loan agreement for a few years.

Foxtrol

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

Like Leinster???? Cronin, Shawe, EOD, Reddan, Boss, Ross......

There is little difference in Munster's problems with developing back five players as there is with Leinsters problems in producing tight five players.

There's a difference between taking senior players and poaching young players who in the process of being blooded.

I see a stark contrast between taking Mike Ross from Quinns when he was 28/29 and Felix Jones from Leinster when he was 21/22.

Yes fringe players should move for gametime but it shouldn't be the case were one province is going out to pillage the star young players another has produced.

GerM

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

Munster were onto Ruddock last season but he chose to stay for one season to see how progressed with the international players out for so much of the season. Munster should be looking at the likes of Ruddock and Dave Kearney at Leinster as well as the likes of O'Halloran and Griffin at Connacht. Guys like Macken and Conway should be on the radar as well.

Whatever about Macken or Conway, I would hate to see Munster or Leinster go near Connacht's indigenous players. They've enough trouble without the big boys raiding them and pinching the players they have brought through the ranks and developed themselves. TOH and EG should be off limits and allowed to continue to develop where they are.

AtItAllDayRef

vinny chase wrote: »

There is no comparison at all between Munster raiding Connacht's backline to pilfer their best young players like Griffin and O'Halloran, or raiding Leinster's young talent like Conway, Macken, Kearney, Ruddock etc and Leinster signing guys like Simon Shawe (playing AIL rugby for Ballymena and in his late twenties), Ed O'Donoghue, Eoin Reddan (signed from Wasps) or Mike Ross (signed from Harlequins).

None of these guys were young developing players, they were seasoned pros.

Picking players from other's academies by promising them first team rugby elsewhere (especially given Munster's poor record of blooding their own youngsters in the first XV) is different entirely.

So you're against pilering Connacht of their players (Hagan and Carr) or young talent from other provinces (Cronin). So what age according to you is it allowed then to swap young players? Its a pro game and when a player is out of contract or coming to the end of his current contract he can listen to any offer thats put in front of him and decide whats in his best interest, not some message board fan with an idealistic provincially tinted view on it.

Munsters recruitment has been poor specifically in signing (or not signing as has been the case) IQ players from other provinces or abroad as Leinster have done to bolster their problem areas in the tight five and scrum half.

molloyjh

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

There needs to be more movement between the provinces especially with the IRFU reducing the NIQ quota. Guys like Foley and Nagle at Munster, Kearney Jnr and Macken at Leinster etc would benefit hugely from a move even it was structured as a loan agreement for a few years.

Whatever about Macken I wouldn't think moving Kearney Jnr would be a good move. He's getting plenty of game time at Leinster this season and is very close to making the HEC squad. The likes of Macken and Hudson probably won't feature much for another 2 seasons so there's something to be said for them I suppose.

Where would Munster be most in need though? They seems to have guys coming through in the back line at the moment, and if I were a Munster fan I'd rather see that talent get fostered than bringing in someone else. It seems to me that the area they are lacking most is actually in the tight five. Both first XV props are NIQs, there are serious question marks over the hookers they have available, POC & DOC are getting on and while Ryan seems to be doing well there what other second row options are there other than Nagle, who isn't really featuring?

WeeBushy

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

So you're against pilering Connacht of their players (Hagan and Carr) or young talent from other provinces (Cronin). So what age according to you is it allowed then to swap young players? Its a pro game and when a player is out of contract or coming to the end of his current contract he can listen to any offer thats put in front of him and decide whats in his best interest, not some message board fan with an idealistic provincially tinted view on it.

Munsters recruitment has been poor specifically in signing (or not signing as has been the case) IQ players from other provinces or abroad as Leinster have done to bolster their problem areas in the tight five and scrum half.

Hagan and Carr are both from Leinster originally and Cronin from Munster. The circumstances of the examples you are using are completely different.

padser

GerM wrote: »

If I was McGahan I'd be on the phone to Rhys Ruddock telling him there's a HEC spot for him in Munster. He's on a 1 year deal and I'm sure his head could be turned. Munster have a fair few back row players but I don't think TOD or Holland will be of HEC winning standard. A back row of Butler, POM and Ruddock could be fantastic in a few years.

I think Ruddock might have his sights set a little higher than just making a HEC team (which, in fairness, Connacht could have offered him this season!).

If he is genuinely good enough to make it at Leinster, he will do so (Schmidt doesn't hold back our youngsters). If not, I would suspect he will head towards a team that looks to have genuine prospects of winning the HEC (if that's in Ireland I would argue that Ulster is more likely in 2 to 3 years rather than Munster).

vinny chase

AtItAllDayRef wrote: »

So you're against pilering Connacht of their players (Hagan and Carr) or young talent from other provinces (Cronin). So what age according to you is it allowed then to swap young players? Its a pro game and when a player is out of contract or coming to the end of his current contract he can listen to any offer thats put in front of him and decide whats in his best interest, not some message board fan with an idealistic provincially tinted view on it.

Munsters recruitment has been poor specifically in signing (or not signing as has been the case) IQ players from other provinces or abroad as Leinster have done to bolster their problem areas in the tight five and scrum half.

For starters; it's a bit disingenuous to describe Jamie Hagan and Fionn Carr as 'Connacht's players'. They were Leinster lads, who were developed in Leinster. Granted they got a fantastic opportunity with Connacht; but they themselves both desperately wanted to return to Leinster.

But, FWIW, I don't necessarily think it was a good thing for Irish rugby that these players left Connacht to come to Leinster this year. I'd rather see them playing week in week out and getting Irish recognition if their performances warrant it.

I wouldn't be opposed to a swap deal where Leinster trade an outside back for a second row (like Nagle). That wasn't what you were advocating though; you were suggesting McGahan get on the phone to young lads on the fringes of the Leinster squad and try to lure them away. There is nothing reciprocal in that.

Munster's development of young players in problem areas will continue to struggle as long as they keep trying to spend their way out of the problem. For further reference see: Rua Tipoki, Lifemi Mafi, Jean de Villiers, Will Chambers, Paul Warwick, etc etc.

I haven't included Howlett (or Christian Cullen-though that experiment wasn't successful) because I do believe there should be scope for signing headline talents when they become available. The same is the case for years in Leinster; with poor quality imports not addressing the issues we had; issues they are now seeking to tackle.