Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

GerM

There's no point in saying "the last Leinster scrum half" or "the last Munster centre" etc. There are only 4 provinces in the country. A handful of players had positions nailed down and we went years without other players getting a sniff of a jersey. Only one or two players were ever going to have a shot at any position. When Leinster played a backs game and Munster played a ten man game they were always going to provide players from the areas they specialised in. Luckily things are changing now with both supplying backs and forwards and competition increasing across the board.

Also, AIADR, Bernard Jackman was getting caps and was starting at hooker in the 6N in 2008.

how many accounts can thehighground possibly get away with?

durkadurka

Let's not forget Shane Byrne

Fireball07

Just going back to an earlier point about movement between provinces and the possibility of players like Ruddock, Macken and D. Kearney going to Munster with Nagle or Foley or whoever going in the opposite direction.

Now I agree that each province should try to produce players to cover every position but that doesn't mean movement between provinces shouldn't be done too.

I mean...look at Ruddock. He's a very promising player, and could be a future Ireland regular, he certainly has the talent. But because SOB and Heaslip are so good, he's not going to start regularly for Leinster unless one of them gets an injury. POM has now got ahead of him in the Ireland reckoning (in theory anyway) because he's starting for Munster. If Ruddock was starting regularly, he'd be in with a chance.

Same with Nagle. He's not going to make any Ireland squad while he's not even making the bench for Munster. If he was in Leinster, if he's as good as he's supposed to be, he could be challenging for a first-team place.


I know this is obvious to most people but some people are just saying "develop your own players, keep ours here" but for the benefit of those players, they've got to realise that starting for another province regularly beats playing 2nd fiddle, unless they really think they can cement a starting position.

Look at the Felix Jones situation...outside of his injury, it's been a good move for him. He came down, and as soon as he got a good run of games, he took the full-back position as his own. He'd be unlikely to do that at Leinster with Kearney, Nacewa and Conway coming up too. He got himself into the Ireland squad and looked like he was going to the World Cup if not for getting injured.

danthefan

POM being ahead of Ruddock in the Ireland pecking order isn't remotely relevant really, because neither are going to be starting or get any meaningful gametime in the 6N. It's all just about developing at this stage of their careers. Ireland will come into it in the next 2 or 3 years. Ruddock is also over a year younger than POM.

Principal Skinner

Fireball07 wrote: »

Just going back to an earlier point about movement between provinces and the possibility of players like Ruddock, Macken and D. Kearney going to Munster with Nagle or Foley or whoever going in the opposite direction.

Now I agree that each province should try to produce players to cover every position but that doesn't mean movement between provinces shouldn't be done too.

I mean...look at Ruddock. He's a very promising player, and could be a future Ireland regular, he certainly has the talent. But because SOB and Heaslip are so good, he's not going to start regularly for Leinster unless one of them gets an injury. POM has now got ahead of him in the Ireland reckoning (in theory anyway) because he's starting for Munster. If Ruddock was starting regularly, he'd be in with a chance.

Same with Nagle. He's not going to make any Ireland squad while he's not even making the bench for Munster. If he was in Leinster, if he's as good as he's supposed to be, he could be challenging for a first-team place. He got himself into the Ireland squad and looked like he was going to the World Cup if not for getting injured.


I know this is obvious to most people but some people are just saying "develop your own players, keep ours here" but for the benefit of those players, they've got to realise that starting for another province regularly beats playing 2nd fiddle, unless they really think they can cement a starting position.

Look at the Felix Jones situation...outside of his injury, it's been a good move for him. He came down, and as soon as he got a good run of games, he took the full-back position as his own. He'd be unlikely to do that at Leinster with Kearney, Nacewa and Conway coming up too.

Any player who starts for munster are automatically ahead of the Leinster player in the pecking order! No matter what o'malley does earls will start as 13 in the 6 nations, mark my words

Fireball07

danthefan wrote: »

POM being ahead of Ruddock in the Ireland pecking order isn't remotely relevant really, because neither are going to be starting or get any meaningful gametime in the 6N. It's all just about developing at this stage of their careers. Ireland will come into it in the next 2 or 3 years. Ruddock is also over a year younger than POM.

While that is true, you never know. Say if POM is on the bench and he gets some gametime and he does well, then Kidney will know he's a player he can use in those situations. And once they've been used in a first-team squad, players generally stay around for a while. But the point would also be that SOB and Heaslip are fairly young. Jennings is getting on but only one of Ryan/Ruddock can replace him (And players like Gilsenan coming through too). They'll only improve by playing more games and Leinster just have a lot of back-row prospects at the moment.

Principal Skinner wrote: »

Any player who starts for munster are automatically ahead of the Leinster player in the pecking order! No matter what o'malley does earls will start as 13 in the 6 nations, mark my words

And I don't think this at all. POM will be ahead of Ruddock because he's producing regularly in the HC, while Ruddock is not first-choice, McLaughlin started ahead of him too.

And while Earls is a possiblity at 13, I'd hope that Kidney will pick someone who's playing there regularly. If EOM plays well right up to the 6N, I'm pretty sure he'll get picked. Cave and Griffin have their chance too. Earls needs to play wing or not at all.

totallegend

@ fireball07, did I take you up wrong or did you say that Nagle would have made the world cup if not for injury?!

michelledoh

totallegend wrote: »

@ fireball07, did I take you up wrong or did you say that Nagle would have made the world cup if not for injury?!

:eek:
I do hope that's not what he said!!
Nagle was light years away from that squad!

Fireball07

totallegend wrote: »

@ fireball07, did I take you up wrong or did you say that Nagle would have made the world cup if not for injury?!

I don't think so... :eek:


I'm almost sure I meant Jones.


EDIT: I see now, I went back to edit my post and the part I meant for Jones was included in Nagle's section. Sorry about that, I'll edit it.

I'm not actually crazy...

tolosenc

Fireball07 wrote: »

POM will be ahead of Ruddock because he's producing regularly in the HC

He's played 2 games in the HC.

Fireball07

tolosenc wrote: »

He's played 2 games in the HC.

Good point.

But he was Munster's best player in both. And in a few weeks he'll have played 4.

I probably worded it wrong...my point was that he his first choice, playing in all the big games and playing well. Ruddock is probably capable of at least the same but won't get the same time because SOB, Jennings and Heaslip are too good and he has more competition from people like McLaughlin and Ryan.

tolosenc

tolosenc wrote: »

He's played 2 games in the HC.

ah but you should never ruin a good story with the truth!

But by the time we get to the 6N, he should have 6 more high level games under his belt, so long as he can avoid any more head injuries.

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

ah but you should never ruin a good story with the truth!

But by the time we get to the 6N, he should have 6 more high level games under his belt, so long as he can avoid any more head injuries.

Other things aside, that's a significant issue with POM and one I hope is being addressed with him one on one. He seems to be the latest player that plays with their heart first and thinks later. He'll end up curtailing his career if he doesn't work on it. He came off against Aironi after clashing heads and lying face down appearing to be out for the count. He came off against Castres after getting another blow to the head and was completely out of it. It's very easy to believe the stories from John Fogarty and Bernard Jackman of players regularly being played after concussions when you see these examples. There is no way POM wasn't concussed in at least one of those instances. I really hope he goes without any more knocks to the head this season or he will be on a slippery slope. Concussions are cumulative; each one makes you more susceptible to another.

.ak

So, what's everyone's choice for next weekend? It's a little hard to pick, based on away selection policies and a hot'n'cold Bath (albeit more cold than hot).. They're peculiar in the fact they defend very well in the loose. I don't know how many times Monty and Glasgow broke loose and had certain tries on their hand only to be turned over by their scrambling defense. It's a funny trait that could lead to teams becoming infuriated. Based on form it's hard to see us losing it, even away, but I'd like to see a more experienced pack being selected and not letting the likes of Moody and Caldwell get under the skin...

irishbucsfan

I think it'll be something like:

VDM, Strauss, Ross, Cullen, Toner, McLaughlin, O'Brien, Heaslip;
Boss, Sexton, Fitzgerald, D'Arcy, O'Malley, Nacewa, Kearney.

Away from home is why I think we'll see Boss/VDM and the rest are just based on prior selections.

durkadurka

Bath seem to have a major injury crisis.

I was having a nose around their forum
http://www.rugbynetwork.net/main/s105/st173340.htm

And they seem to be pretty depressed , with not very high hopes.

Lots of stuff about the attitude of players , cluelessness etc.

Re the team my guess is:

Vdm, strauss,Ross
Leo, toner
Locky, sob, heaslip
Boss, sexton
Luke, dorce,eom,nacewa
R Kearney

Cronin,Healy,White, Browne, Jennings,
Reddan, madigan, Fergus

RuggieBear

lot of posts

thomond2006

but still behind Munster! :pac:

durkadurka

thomond2006 wrote: »

but still behind Munster! :pac:

That's cos you support munster. One player can make all the difference.

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

That's cos you support munster. One player can make all the difference.

Wha? I was referring to Ruggie's post?

danthefan

durkadurka wrote: »

That's cos you support munster. One player can make all the difference.

Pretty sure he's talking about the number of posts in the thread.

durkadurka

Ah bloody hell I was referring to thomonds posting frequency.

Thus explaining why the munster thread had more posts. Thomond being the 'one player' who makes all the difference.

Podge_irl

durkadurka wrote: »

Ah bloody hell I was referring to thomonds posting frequency.

Thus explaining why the munster thread had more posts. Thomond being the 'one player' who makes all the difference.

That's ok. I knew what you meant :P

irishbucsfan

Ah well. The Munster thread will always be more "complete" than this one. Sure look at their tags! :cool:

EKClarke

We'll beat Bath easily enough if the 'Beaver' does this again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9eKGvYuy08

tolosenc

durkadurka wrote: »

Bath seem to have a major injury crisis.

So that explains why their scrum collapsed to the might of the Mush over the weekend. Were their props essentially fat lads pulled out of the pub at the last minute?

durkadurka

Well their hooker was 19....

Also apparently the scrum fell apart AFTER Buckley went off...

We should defo be going out to win this though.

.ak

I'd like to see Ferg at 12 again. He was showing promise there last week, and is looking for that offload more and more. Tough call though cuz Darce is one of those kind of players that needs more and more game time to hit form imo. Aside from that I'd be happy with the team irishbucsfan and durkadurka selected.

chancer12

Would agree with team selection but would prefer Luke at 12 and McFadden at 11