Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Blut2 wrote: »

Sykes is leaving in the next 6 months so thats one down anyway.

really? 3 year contract

durkadurka

Second Row is the only area where I'm worried. This is prob Cullens last year as a HEC starter.

Toner is doing grand.

Then we have Browne and Sykes, and thats it.

Whats more, in a year or two Munster are going to be short of locks too( their three 'O's are all around 32-33) ,so we'll be fighting over a NIQ lock.

ed7890

durkadurka wrote: »

Second Row is the only area where I'm worried. This is prob Cullens last year as a HEC starter.

Toner is doing grand.

Then we have Browne and Sykes, and thats it.

Whats more, in a year or two Munster are going to be short of locks too( their three 'O's are all around 32-33) ,so we'll be fighting over a NIQ lock.

I'd say Munster will be alright there if they hold onto their young players. You have Ryan and Holland who can play lock, then Nagle and Foley, Dave O'Callaghan can play there I think, then Buckley in the u20s.

ongarite

Blut2 wrote: »

Sykes is leaving in the next 6 months so thats one down anyway.

Where are you getting this from?
Its hard to call his move a flop yet when he has hardly played since signing.

wixfjord

It probably impacts us the least in terms of quality, because of the huge, mainly Irish squad. However, it will certainly impinge on our ability to compete with Toulouse, Clermont etc.

shuffol

What about Flanagan in the second row? He looked alright at the start of the season.

vinny chase

wixfjord wrote: »

It probably impacts us the least in terms of quality, because of the huge, mainly Irish squad. However, it will certainly impinge on our ability to compete with Toulouse, Clermont etc.

Yeah, I agree.

This is the point I've repeatedly tried to make and that I think the IRFU are missing.

Sure, increased resources for the academies is a good thing; but in reality, getting young lads interested in the sport is a good way of bringing through the next generation of good Irish players.

Rugby is stronger in non-traditional places today because of the success of the provinces just as much if not more than the success of the national side.

If you hinder the ability of the provinces to compete and succeed at the top stages of the Heineken, then you're limiting the marketing opportunities for the game as a whole and the potential for recruiting more and more youngsters into the game; all for the sake of having the provinces turning out fully Irish sides now.

BoardsMember

I think the most interesting thing will be match day selection. As I understand it, the three provinces are going to have to agree between them which one gets to field a NIE player, as the edict says only one NIE player per position across the three provinces. that's going to be a minefield, there'll be horse trading etc. Maybe what they are looking to effect is the willingness of the provinces to work together to ensure that they dont have excess players in one position when another province has a dearth of the same.

All in all, I think the new rules are going to have a really dramatic effect. It really is groundbreaking stuff, and should really benefit the Ireland team.

On the downside, its hard to see it not affecting the competitiveness of the provinces in the HEC.

Podge_irl

BoardsMember wrote: »

I think the most interesting thing will be match day selection. As I understand it, the three provinces are going to have to agree between them which one gets to field a NIE player, as the edict says only one NIE player per position across the three provinces. that's going to be a minefield, there'll be horse trading etc. Maybe what they are looking to effect is the willingness of the provinces to work together to ensure that they dont have excess players in one position when another province has a dearth of the same.

It's one NIQ player per position in the squads not the matchday selections.

Hagz

The most interesting thing is that when the NIQs contract is up, they can't sign any NIQ for that position. Weird. Basically, if they are going to sign a lock or prop, they need to be developing one while they're using him.

vinny chase

BoardsMember wrote: »

On the downside, its hard to see it not affecting the competitiveness of the provinces in the HEC.

I think if you accept that premise; then I can see this ultimately hurting the national team, and the game as a whole in Ireland in the long term.

Spud83

The weirdest thing to me is that players are being signed per position. 1-15. Does that mean if you sign one as a fullback you can't play him in any other position.

If so it would make more sense if they broke it up IMO. 3 front row players, 2 locks, 3 back row, scrum half, fly half, and then 5 backs, regardless of where they actual line up.

durkadurka

This whole thing seems to work on the premise that each team has only one player in each position for HEC games. But for props the reality is that you have two - we see VDM and Healy interchanging for prop duties.

So Leinster is still producing an international LH prop for ireland - and one who isn't overplayed either, nor does he have to endure 80 minutes every time he plays.

Leinster usually field a team with 12-13 irish players- and one of the NIQs is a project player.

I would make an exception for props and say that each team can have only two NIQ props.

I don't think you can burn the clubs too much here.

Spud83

Spud83 wrote: »

The weirdest thing to me is that players are being signed per position. 1-15. Does that mean if you sign one as a fullback you can't play him in any other position.

If so it would make more sense if they broke it up IMO. 3 front row players, 2 locks, 3 back row, scrum half, fly half, and then 5 backs, regardless of where they actual line up.

This is similar to how the Italians do it, and it's a far better system.

It prevents you having two NIQ props, or two NIQ second Rows, or two NIQ back rows etc...

Definitely the "most correct" way of doing this imo.

vinny chase

Spud83 wrote: »

The weirdest thing to me is that players are being signed per position. 1-15. Does that mean if you sign one as a fullback you can't play him in any other position.

If so it would make more sense if they broke it up IMO. 3 front row players, 2 locks, 3 back row, scrum half, fly half, and then 5 backs, regardless of where they actual line up.

In Ruadhri O'Connor's article today in the Independent on this, http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-setup-the-winner-as-irfu-launch-new-foreign-policy-2971209.html ,

he states that as Nacewa is registered as a winger, before Schmidt could select him at full back or out half he'll have to "justify himself to the IRFU and prove that there is no credible Irish alternative."

If people seriously don't think this will hinder the future abilities of the Irish provinces to lure in talented foreign coaches here, they're fooling themselves.

Spud83

vinny chase wrote: »

In Ruadhri O'Connor's article today in the Independent on this, http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-setup-the-winner-as-irfu-launch-new-foreign-policy-2971209.html ,

he states that as Nacewa is registered as a winger, before Schmidt could select him at full back or out half he'll have to "justify himself to the IRFU and prove that there is no credible Irish alternative."

If people seriously don't think this will hinder the future abilities of the Irish provinces to lure in talented foreign coaches here, they're fooling themselves.

So in the above scenario if Sexton got injured he would be forced to play Madigan, but if they both got injured Isa could slot in. Doesn't sound hugely unreasonable, although you are correct in that it's not going to be something pleasant for head coaches to deal with.

justsomebloke

I think one thing that should be highlighted is Leinster's recent route 6"6' drive. This drive highlighted the lack of adequate players in the system currently. So in a case like this how are teams meant to develop players that aren't actually there?

justsomebloke

Actually anyone know where Leo Auva'a fits in in relation to NIE, as I think he has now been in the country for 3 years so although he may not be NIQ he may be NIE

vinny chase

justsomebloke wrote: »

I think one thing that should be highlighted is Leinster's recent route 6"6' drive. This drive highlighted the lack of adequate players in the system currently. So in a case like this how are teams meant to develop players that aren't actually there?

I agree with you here.

Obviously a lot of young players might develop faster and better if they are exposed to game time from a young age; but in a lot of cases, the best thing for them is to bide their time, play at an A level, and learn from a better player in that position.

If we don't have an Irish player there, then learn from a foreigner.

I'm sure the benefit of training alongside Rocky Elsom benefited our young backrowers like SO'B, Rhys, Locky, Dom Ryan etc hugely.

Nobody would realistically want to see guys like Luke McGrath thrown into the firsts at this stage; he needs the years to develop.

But I think this new approach will see young Irish lads thrown into a level before they're necessarily ready for it, which won't always have the results people expect.

Getting a pasting, or being completely mauled in the scrums is not going to do any good for our young players or their confidence.

When Irish players are good enough; they're selected.

The provinces have all endeavoured to produce talented Irish players; in Munster's case they persisted with the clearly awful Buckley for years when it was evident he wasn't up to it, no doubt because he was Irish. This didn't do Irish rugby or Munster rugby, or the player himself, any good long term.

The real thing needed is simply the continued production of Irish players, and perhaps a plan to share the talent of the academies around; eg swap Ian Nagle for David Kearney (the example most often used!), but that could have been arranged without going as far as this measure will.

irishbucsfan

durkadurka wrote: »

This whole thing seems to work on the premise that each team has only one player in each position for HEC games. But for props the reality is that you have two - we see VDM and Healy interchanging for prop duties.

So Leinster is still producing an international LH prop for ireland - and one who isn't overplayed either, nor does he have to endure 80 minutes every time he plays.

Leinster usually field a team with 12-13 irish players- and one of the NIQs is a project player.

I would make an exception for props and say that each team can have only two NIQ props.

It doesn't work on that premise at all. Don't know where you're getting that from. Leinster have 5 IQ props and more in the academy. They could easilly Excel with Healy, Ross, Hagan, McGrath and JOC.

They choose not to as its easier in the short term to play an NIQ veteran while letting the younger guys train with Feek while playing B&I Cup.

Leinster and Ulster will be fine without NIQ props, Munster would be as well if Tim Ryan and Dave Ryan had developed like they thought they would.


When Munster played Leinster in the Aviva I think there were as many south African front rowers on the pitch as there were Irish. That's the sort if situation this directive will prevent.

tolosenc

justsomebloke wrote: »

Actually anyone know where Leo Auva'a fits in in relation to NIE, as I think he has now been in the country for 3 years so although he may not be NIQ he may be NIE

He doesn't have an international cap (test, sevens, b, or under-age), so if he's here long enough, then he's IQ. Will be by the time that law comes into place, anyway.

I still want to see him tried as a bosh merchant 12 soon.

accensi0n

I'm looking to get 3 north stand tickets for the Ulster match. Reckon there'll be any available on the day? Send me a PM if you have any to pass on if you can't make it. Cheers.

conf101

accensi0n wrote: »

I'm looking to get 3 north stand tickets for the Ulster match. Reckon there'll be any available on the day? Send me a PM if you have any to pass on if you can't make it. Cheers.

Highly unlikely you'll get any on the day. I was looking this morning and there were 3 North Stand tickets left

[Jackass]

From Leinster perspective, dibs on tighthead and both second row spots...

You're welcome to the rest...

My main worry is where this leaves Nacewa....

Play him at tighthead if we have to...

One thing's for sure though, the IRFU are reacting to their recent survey at the fact that provinces are becoming more important to fans than the national team, are they are destructed the provinces into 4 development sides for the national team, and to hell with them..

This is far too much of an intervention from the IRFU, and they are getting far too involved in the Provincial set up, to the extent of potentially being very damaging, and I've no doubt that this is in fact a SHORT TERM, SHORT SIGHTED development rather than a long term one.

If the provinces lose their foreign contingent, it will make them less competetive and therefore less successfull, which, if we factor in long term results, could result in lower crowd numbers, lower sponsorship, lower investment in grass roots, lesser quality coaching staff, lesser quality foreign players teaching the Irish guys who aren't ready...

It's a joke...

If a certain position is problematic, they could make a short term stop on signings in, for example, propping positions, but this is dangerous and even as a Leinster fan, a team most equipped to deal with this, I think it's a terrible idea...

Another side point is that Leinster could be a victim of their own success now, with no foreign imports allowed, forced to farm out all their own produce to prop up the likes of Munster & Connacht... a trend already begun and will only worsen with this change. What's the point in developing so many quality young players and be punished for your inititave by having to support one of your biggest domestic and European rivals...

Mr.Applepie

vinny chase wrote: »

In Ruadhri O'Connor's article today in the Independent on this, http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-setup-the-winner-as-irfu-launch-new-foreign-policy-2971209.html ,

he states that as Nacewa is registered as a winger, before Schmidt could select him at full back or out half he'll have to "justify himself to the IRFU and prove that there is no credible Irish alternative."

If people seriously don't think this will hinder the future abilities of the Irish provinces to lure in talented foreign coaches here, they're fooling themselves.

Put 14 on his back but he plays fullback anyway... that's how I see something like that working out

CIARAN_BOYLE

[Jackass] wrote: »

My main worry is where this leaves Nacewa....

32 when his contract expires afaik, hopefully we will have an experienced back three of DKearney RKearney Conway starting games with Fitz and McFadden fighting for 12 and the covering wings.

I know its ruthless but its how I am looking at things. If Conway or Kearney don't come through McFadden or Fitz can play on the wings, or Hudson/Boyle/Coghlan-Murray will come through or maybe Carr will stay.

Nacewa has a contract for a few years but after that someone Irish has to step up.

danthefan

Yeah not worried about Nacewa tbh, he's contract for another two and a half seasons, once that runs out there should really be an Irish player there to take his place.

Watching the Bath game he was really outshone by Kearney and Fitz. While he remains a very important player for Leinster it just goes to show that there are a few other half decent players there too.

Edit - maybe it's only one and a half seasons. When is his contract up?

GerM

Nigel Owens to referee the Glasgow game. No real issue there. I'd like to see Jennings start this one. Glasgow will look to spoil and slow things down and Owens will allow a bit of leeway there.

errlloyd

Here I have never bought tickets at the moment they open on ticketmaster before.

Whats the craic, should have gone on sale almost 20 minutes ago, I just keep smashing refresh. They didnt all pre-sale to ST holders did they?

ray jay

Looks like sales are only open to season ticket holders at the moment.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/tickets/9184.php