Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

lologram

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'm not aware of every HC-eligible lock in the world but, I know there have to be some great ones lying about who would love to get a chance to prove themselves at the European champions.

What a cop-out answer. The question was which Irish and HC eligible, and might I add of good enough quality, lock do you suggest Leinster play?

I don't think you can think of any, I can't either. Maybe in the off-season Leinster should move for the likes of Caldwell, but he's cup-tied and in contract right now. And Leinster need someone now. Therefore temporary non-IQ player makes perfect sense. And personally I think one of the core members of the most recent World Cup-winning pack will do just fine.

Jedwardian

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Toner and Browne should be trusted as the starting partnership.

Damien Browne is nearly 32 and like Brad Thorn, will never play for Ireland. As such, I'd rather have a World Cup winner in the Leinster team than, to be cold, a journeyman (albeit Browne has been a decent signing). I believe adding Thorn to the Pro 12 squad and having his experience and professionalism for a few months would benefit players like Jack McGrath, Jamie Hagan, Mark Flanagan, Devin Toner, Dominic Ryan, Rhys Ruddock etc who can go on and play for Ireland. He'd be an excellent signing in terms of developing younger players.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you saying that World Cup Winner Brad Thorn has never shown he's able to contribute on and off the field?

Have you any idea what you're talking about?

Search Rugbydump for some of the clips of him training, he's not just a captain, he's a machine.

Yup, a 3 month deal allows us to delay the problem for 2 months, and give us a bit of breathing space and experience to bring through Flanagan and get Browne and Toner playing together regularly.

A 2 year contract on the other hand, allows a management team completely neglect the problem on hand for a very long time.

I can't imagine him being happy to come over and warm the bench for inferior players tbh. If he was, all credit to him and he could work out brilliantly on and (especially) off the field.

When you see such a huge name being linked to a club you, assume they are here to earn a quick buck and to play week-in week-out - especially coming to the important end of the season. The only way we'll know is if he signs but, he looks (to me) as the type of signing who will only serve to delay the problem rather than significantly helping to fix it.

smurphy29

lologram wrote: »

What a cop-out answer. The question was which Irish and HC eligible, and might I add of good enough quality, lock do you suggest Leinster play?

I don't think you can think of any, I can't either. Maybe in the off-season Leinster should move for the likes of Caldwell, but he's cup-tied and in contract right now. And Leinster need someone now. Therefore temporary non-IQ player makes perfect sense. And personally I think one of the core members of the most recent World Cup-winning pack will do just fine.

But don't you realise lologram that 'there have to be some great ones lying around'! I don't know where, but they have to be around somewhere! What a rugby powerhouse Ireland must be to have 'great' second rows just, y'know, lying around the place in hiding.

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

he looks (to me) as the type of signing who will only serve to delay the problem rather than significantly helping to fix it.

Delay the problem of one of our second rows going for surgery and one getting homesick and going back to SA?

Throwing Flanagan into a HEC QF wouldn't help anyone.

I'd be thrilled with the signing short term - he's be perfect for three months. The issue of Leinster's second row stocks is a serious concern though. I'd ideally like whoever is signed to replace Sykes to be young and IQ would obviously be a bonus but unlikely.

Cpt_Blackbeard

smurphy29 wrote: »

But don't you realise lologram that 'there have to be some great ones lying around'! I don't know where, but they have to be around somewhere! What a rugby powerhouse Ireland must be to have 'great' second rows just, y'know, lying around the place in hiding.

They don't have to be IQ but, IQ players should be the first option. If you don't believe that there are some good, available, locks in the world who can come in for Leinster and be delighted to do a job from the bench as, they will get to prove themselves for the best club in Europe, you're deluded.

Just look how the out-of-favour Stringer jumped at the opportunity to prove himself for the Saracens - Irregardless of how it works out for him.

smurphy29

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I can't imagine him being happy to come over and warm the bench for inferior players tbh. If he was, all credit to him and he could work out brilliantly on and (especially) off the field.

When you see such a huge name being linked to a club you, assume they are here to earn a quick buck and to play week-in week-out - especially coming to the important end of the season. The only way we'll know is if he signs but, he looks (to me) as the type of signing who will only serve to delay the problem rather than significantly helping to fix it.

Lord almighty. Delay the problem - what exactly does that mean? How do you propose Leinster 'fix' the problem exactly. The problem is that they're light numbers in the seond row in the immediate future.

smurphy29

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

They don't have to be IQ but, IQ players should be the first option. If you don't believe that there are some good, available, locks in the world who can come in for Leinster and be delighted to do a job from the bench as, they will get to prove themselves for the best club in Europe, you're deluded.

Just look how the out-of-favour Stringer jumped at the opportunity to prove himself for the Saracens - Irregardless of how it works out for him.

Got it. So a Stringer type i.e. a player also coming to the end of his career and not eligible to play for the country to which he moved, is the type of player we need. But not Thorne. Crystal clear.

If they're not NIQ then what the hell does it matter how old they are? Surely by being no more than a three-four month solution it means they're going to impose themselves on the development of Leinster's IQ locks for the shortest time period possible.

This is getting silly. Sillier. I quit.

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

They don't have to be IQ but, IQ players should be the first option. If you don't believe that there are some good, available, locks in the world who can come in for Leinster and be delighted to do a job from the bench as, they will get to prove themselves for the best club in Europe, you're deluded.

Just look how the out-of-favour Stringer jumped at the opportunity to prove himself for the Saracens - Irregardless of how it works out for him.

Isn't Thorn one of those? Am I missing something?

Podge_irl

If Thorn is happy to go play rugby in Japan for silly money, he'll be happy to sit on Leinster's bench for silly money.

smurphy29

Tox56 wrote: »

Isn't Thorn one of those? Am I missing something?

No, no he's not. He's only interested in the quick buck. Or something.

WeeBushy

Leinster have two 2nd rows - Browne and Toner. They also have a guy just out of the academy who put in one decent performance in the Pro12 a few weeks ago, and a back row (McL) who can cover 2nd row in a pinch. And there are no HC eligible IQ second rows available that play to a decent standard.

Leinster are trying to win the HC and they currently do not have any fit 2nd rows that play or have played regular international rugby. And you're saying it's ludicrous that they are trying to sign a short term replacement for their injured captain??

Who would Thorn be holding back? No one. Those that are ready to play first XV rugby will continue to do so (Browne and Toner). Those that are not will continue to develop at the pace Schmidt think is best for them (Flanagan, Ruddock etc.), and they get the added bonus of training with a world cup winning second row. Not many Irish players can say they've done that.

Cpt_Blackbeard

smurphy29 wrote: »

Lord almighty. Delay the problem - what exactly does that mean? How do you propose Leinster 'fix' the problem exactly. The problem is that they're light numbers in the seond row in the immediate future.

The problem is that they are light in the second row - full stop. Not one of their locks would start for Ulster and its debatable if anyone would even make the Munster match-day squad. A good player for the HC bench and to start the PRO12 is needed. If the signing works out and wants to come back ala WdP, all the better.

Going down the Munster route (with centres) and continually signing definite starters just ignores the problem. I don't think Schmidt is that stupid but, you never know. Everyone makes mistakes.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

When you see such a huge name being linked to a club you, assume they are here to earn a quick buck and to play week-in week-out - especially coming to the important end of the season. The only way we'll know is if he signs but, he looks (to me) as the type of signing who will only serve to delay the problem rather than significantly helping to fix it.

I think thats the plan, push things out till the end of the season when we can sign a project player for three years

The reason Munster managed to sign Chambers when they did was because his season had just ended, if any young southern hemisphere player signs for Leinster now for three months they will miss the entire preseason in the S15 which they wouldn't be willing to do.

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Leinster's first port of call should have been, publicly sounding out Munster about loaning someone to lend a hand. If that wasn't possible, then you go looking for for someone to come in and do a job - albeit the IRFU should never sanction the signing of such an old (but great) player.

Who should Leinster look at down in Munster, you can't play for two clubs in the same season in the HEC. POC, DOC, DRyan, MOD and Holland are all cup tied.

Only IQ lock that I can think of that might be available is Pat O'Connor who got 8 super rugby caps last season currently in T14 wih Agen contract expiring in may

If Thorn comes and does well I'll be happy that said I would prefer to see Flanagan getting a good run in the Pro 12 (another four starts between now and the end of the season) and Toner/Browne playing in the HEC.

justsomebloke

cpt_blackbeard do not post on this thread or any leinster match threads for the next month and also take the next few days off aswell

WeeBushy

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The problem is that they are light in the second row - full stop. Not one of their locks would start for Ulster and its debatable if anyone would even make the Munster match-day squad. A good player for the HC bench and to start the PRO12 is needed. If the signing works out and wants to come back ala WdP, all the better.

Going down the Munster route (with centres) and continually signing definite starters just ignores the problem. I don't think Schmidt is that stupid but, you never know. Everyone makes mistakes.

Continually being the key word. If we consistently sign 36 year olds on short term contracts to plug the whole then of course its an issue. But that clearly isn't the case, in fact we've done the exact opposite with things like the Route 66 initiative, and signing a long term project player who unfortunately didn't work out.

CatFromHue

Bring back Mal O'Kelly is what I say! He'd show this Thorn chap a thing or two.

irishbucsfan

smurphy29 wrote: »

Lord almighty. Delay the problem - what exactly does that mean? How do you propose Leinster 'fix' the problem exactly.

Delaying the problem would be like, for example having an ancient player (let's call him MOD) starting ahead of a young talent (let's call him IN).

Or kinda like signing a young player in a key position (codename Keats) and then proceeding to give them 8 minutes of heineken cup rugby despite having a 35 year old in the starting team.

Fixing this second row problem for Leinster would start with trying out some young pup (right out of the academy would be best) in the starting team... If Leinster werent the disgustingly backward sponges on Irish rugby that they are, then maybe they would have already done this.

Tox56

Apparently according to the Rugby Club on Sky, it was infact Conor Jizzle-nan who scored in the A game.

They do this all the time with Irish surnames, why does nobody tell them?

Clegg

Tox56 wrote: »

Apparently according to the Rugby Club on Sky, it was infact Conor Jizzle-nan who scored in the A game.

They do this all the time with Irish surnames, why does nobody tell them?

Gilsenan? Isn't he the guy who did that thing?

I know that sounds vague but I'm not sure if we're allowed mention it online.

durkadurka

The very same

Clegg

durkadurka wrote: »

The very same

I knew his name sounded familiar.

I know a group of lads who don't think very highly of him at all.

[Jackass]

Thorn would be a strange signing.

We could use the cover, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about bringing this guy in. I'd rather make do with what we've got.

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

Thorn would be a strange signing.

We could use the cover, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about bringing this guy in. I'd rather make do with what we've got.

Without wanting to be pessimistic there is no guarantee Cullen will come back to full fitness in time for the knock-out stages of the HEC.

That means what we've got would be Browne and Toner starting with Flanagan on the bench. Not exactly HEC winning stuff.

durkadurka

[Jackass] wrote: »

Thorn would be a strange signing.

We could use the cover, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about bringing this guy in. I'd rather make do with what we've got.

I'm not thrilled either.

I'd like to see toner and Browne getting loads of starts during the 6n.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Going down the Munster route (with centres) and continually signing definite starters just ignores the problem. I don't think Schmidt is that stupid but, you never know. Everyone makes mistakes.

Might want to take a look at the locks that have been on Leinster's books over the past 7 or 8 years and rethink that. Hines has been the only lock that has been on our books in that time that has been NIE. Galarza was a temporary signing that was cover and shown the door once his purpose was served. The other few locks such as Byrnes, Jowitt and Williams were eligible if they had made the grade. Gissing was called up to Ireland A. The Munster inside centre situation is the single worst example of development in Irish rugby's pro-history. Totally different.

GerM

[Jackass] wrote: »

Thorn would be a strange signing.

We could use the cover, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about bringing this guy in. I'd rather make do with what we've got.

Tend to agree. He'd be a 3 months signing as is the rule with a medical cover signing, I believe. That would mean he would be here for the quarter final and semi final of the HEC and several Pro12 games. Toner, Brown and Flanagan should be able to handle the Pro12 games. The quarter final draw has been kind to Leinster and we should be able to manage against Cardiff with Toner and Brown. For the semi final, Cullen will definitely be back. No need for a joker. If we were in the pool stages and had 4 or 5 HEC games in the space of 2 months then that would be fine but I don't see the need for him although I massively rate him.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

Tend to agree. He'd be a 3 months signing as is the rule with a medical cover signing, I believe. That would mean he would be here for the quarter final and semi final of the HEC and several Pro12 games. Toner, Brown and Flanagan should be able to handle the Pro12 games. The quarter final draw has been kind to Leinster and we should be able to manage against Cardiff with Toner and Brown. For the semi final, Cullen will definitely be back. No need for a joker. If we were in the pool stages and had 4 or 5 HEC games in the space of 2 months then that would be fine but I don't see the need for him although I massively rate him.

Think I'd go along with that alright. As much as I would love to see him in a Leinster jersey, I think we'll muddle through with the three lads and Locky filling in as needed.

There's also the NIQ issue; if signing Thorn costs Leinster some good will with central management when it comes to re-negotiating the NIQ deal, then screw it, we'll get by without him.

Of course, if they're considering this, is it a tacit admission that Leo's achilles might take longer to heal than we've been told?

Neil3030

Two words: Victor Matfield.

Podge_irl

I dunno. It's gambling a bit too much on Leo coming back strong from what sounds like a reasonably serious op. I can't imagine he'll be on his feet much at all for a while after it so fitness could be an issue. As well as the risk inherent in any surgery of it not going right. Without Leo Leinster only have 3 actual locks available to them, it's cutting things a bit tight. If something goes wrong with Leo's recovery then 2 months from now is not the time to be bringing someone new in as an emergency.