Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

bamboozle

bamboozle wrote: »

PS- Miller, Costello, Wood, Byrne, Corrigan, Mal O'Kelly, Easterby et al might disagree with your comments regarding munster supplying the Irish pack.

disagree all they want, it's the truth. Munster were the main contributors to the national pack for the last 10 years, by a distance I'd imagine.

regarding the "lets reward them for their hard work" nonsense, I wouldn't even stoop to entertain how ridiculous that would be if true, and how ridiculous that it was even suggested!

Big Nelly

jacothelad wrote: »

Has it? This season he has 4 tries in 15 games for Leinster. Compared to 12 for Visser in 16 games, 6 for Trimble in 11, 7 for Madigan in 16, and 9 for Zebo in 17. There is no doubting he has more rugby flair than Trimble, particularly in close quarters where he can leave an opponent for dead. I suppose, like a striker in soccer, a top class winger at Europe's number one club is rated on his scoring rate in the main. Making great breaks look good but if they essentially lead nowhere.......?

I think that Fitz's obvious talent maybe need channelled differently. The last few seasons have been difficult for him. Trying too hard art times perhaps.

He has been brilliant in any of the games I watched him in, this was all of the home games during the World Cup and the HC game against bath.

I said on here that not getting picked in WC squad might give him a kick up the ass. It did and he was great before injury. With a lot of younger players been used by Leinster during the WC he was standing up and taking control. He helped Madigan massively and playing in the centre alongside him made a good few tries for Madigan.

irishbucsfan

padraig.od wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well if you didn't watch leinster this season then its understandable why you're so confused. Look up the highlights, Bath in the RDS should be a good example.

Didn't you play Bath at the Aviva? Bath.... weren't they on an awful run of form in the run up to that game? I think Leinster put 50+ points on them? Hardly a team to measure yourself against. I remember he scored one from his own 22, but to be fair any number of wingers can catch a ball and run like hell for the opposition try line.

Watch the highlights. He was Leinsters best back in the Heineken cup this year. He was in better form than Trimble coming into the 6 Nations. You obviously hold some grudge against the guy but you're just being ignorant of his excellent form this season pre-injury. We put 52 points on Bath and Fitzgerald had a hand in most of the tries.

bamboozle

Deleted User wrote: »

disagree all they want, it's the truth. Munster were the main contributors to the national pack for the last 10 years, by a distance I'd imagine.

regarding the "lets reward them for their hard work" nonsense, I wouldn't even stoop to entertain how ridiculous that would be if true, and how ridiculous that it was even suggested!

there's a big difference between supplying the Irish pack and supplying the majority of the Irish pack. Munster clearly did the latter but most certainly not the former as suggested.

bamboozle

bamboozle wrote: »

there's a big difference between supplying the Irish pack and supplying the majority of the Irish pack. Munster clearly did the latter but most certainly not the former as suggested.

there are some posters who's posts need to be taken with a certain amount of sodium.

totallegend

Look, we don't know what the sums involved are but I will be absolutely raging if Luke leaves. He had been in stunning form up to Christmas, anyone who says otherwise doesn't watch rugby. A guy as young as he is with his experience skills and ability should be kept if at all possible.

padraig.od

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Watch the highlights. He was Leinsters best back in the Heineken cup this year. He was in better form than Trimble coming into the 6 Nations. You obviously hold some grudge against the guy but you're just being ignorant of his excellent form this season pre-injury. We put 52 points on Bath and Fitzgerald had a hand in most of the tries.

I have nothing against him, honest. I just don't think he deserves a central contract. It's not a provincial thing if that's what you think. Leamy shouldn't have gotten one either, nor should Donnacha Ryan. I hope Leinster offer him a contract and he stays in Ireland, but I don't think he has earned an IRFU contract.

Would it be a disaster if he left anyway? Conway, Carr, McFadden, Nacewa, Dave Kearney can all play there. And there is an academy overrunning with talent apparently. Although if Shaggy is retiring then Leinster may be caught short on the wing.

People keep saying he could be a centre. If he was a top class wing would people be pushing him to the centre? Anyway I think he did well there for Ireland & Leinster the couple of times he has played in the centre. I think he has the physique for the position anyway. Does anyone know if Schmidt or himself have seriously considered moving him there?

ormond lad

padraig.od wrote: »

I have nothing against him, honest. I just don't think he deserves a central contract. It's not a provincial thing if that's what you think. Leamy shouldn't have gotten one either, nor should Donnacha Ryan. I hope Leinster offer him a contract and he stays in Ireland, but I don't think he has earned an IRFU contract.

Would it be a disaster if he left anyway? Conway, Carr, McFadden, Nacewa, Dave Kearney can all play there. And there is an academy overrunning with talent apparently. Although if Shaggy is retiring then Leinster may be caught short on the wing.

People keep saying he could be a centre. I think he did well there for Ireland & Leinster the couple of times he has played in the centre. I think he has the physique for the position anyway. Does anyone know if Schmidt or himself have seriously considered moving him there?

Of the other Irish 2nd rows who would you have given a central contract to ahead of Ryan?
Leamy shouldnt have got a CC as their is plenty of players ahead of him
Even if Horgan retires ye have an abundance of wingers

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

No idea, oh great Defendor of all things Red.

Going to enlighten us?

Touchy or what.

I've no idea either, in fact I've no idea what any player earns and care less, my question was to a comparison between Leamy getting a contract and Luke supposedly being offered one which is 30% lower than his last one. If that poster wants to make comparisons then they should surely have the facts.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Deleted User wrote: »

What are you talking about?

Munster are The IRFU.

Regardless of whether or not the contract is a Munster contract, or an IRFU contract, it gets paid by the IRFU.

Munster Rugby is "The Munster Branch of the IRFU".

The issue with the central contracts is that they are "supposed" to be to keep our best and most guaranteed-to-be-involved with the national side in the country and happy.

Leamy is not one of these people.

I'm aware that Munster are a branch of the IRFU, but that doesn't mean that they will be afforded extra funds (unlike Ulster) if they are unable to stay within a set budget. Munster have the biggest squad of the provinces, a stadium to pay off, and two bases from which they operate out of. Obviously they have huge (unnecessary) running costs. They don't have the option to move any high revenue generating games a few minutes down the road to quadruple their attendances and hence their income like Leinster have either.

Leamy does not deserve a central contract and the most obvious reason that I can see for him getting one was to help keep costs down. Cynical politics or not, its a decent explanation for Leamy getting a central contract imo.

Kidney (as he would likely be directly/indirectly involved in any central contract talks) is either looking out for a player he has long worked with who has had a career horribly disrupted by injury, or is looking out for the province he coached for years.

Regardless of my baseless conspiracy theories, Luke should not be offered a contract of similar terms to his current deal. He is no longer the mainstay in the national team that he was and should not be payed as such. I'd presume that he is just following the steps of Heaslip, Sexton and ROG (kinda) before him by holding the IRFU ransom for a better deal.

phog

phog wrote: »

Touchy or what.

I've no idea either, in fact I've no idea what any player earns and care less, my question was to a comparison between Leamy getting a contract and Luke supposedly being offered one which is 30% lower than his last one. If that poster wants to make comparisons then they should surely have the facts.

that is far too ironic considering that the only reason that you posted on the thread was due to a player being mentioned. A resonance exists within your posting patterns.

And I've answered fully the rest of your post earlier, that it is almost irrelevant as to the monetary value of Leamy's contract.

99% of posters here know sfa about what any of these players are actually getting paid, myself included. You demanding facts is pretty funny.

Cpt_Blackbeard

bamboozle wrote: »

there's a big difference between supplying the Irish pack and supplying the majority of the Irish pack. Munster clearly did the latter but most certainly not the former as suggested.

Sorry about that. I assumed that posters would be able to read between the lines, and not require me to state an exact percentage of the Irish forwards which Munster have provided over the last 10 years.

bamboozle

phog wrote: »

Touchy or what.

I've no idea either, in fact I've no idea what any player earns and care less, my question was to a comparison between Leamy getting a contract and Luke supposedly being offered one which is 30% lower than his last one. If that poster wants to make comparisons then they should surely have the facts.

as the poster in question the point i was making is that the contract offered to 24 year old luke fitz was apparently 30% less than his existing deal, however if the IRFU are trying to reign in their expenses why are they wasting money on a central contract for Leamy whose best years (and they were great) are long behind him.

funky penguin

Why must Luke always be a mere try count for people? He offers far more than just a man on the wing to grab the tail end of a set piece attack. It's not like we're having a try scoring drought.

justsomebloke

Lads attack the post and not the poster, yous are here long enough to know that. Any more and infractions or bans will follow.

Also I don't mind the central contracts being discussed but please don't drag the thread in a Leinster V Munster pissing contest

padraig.od

ormond lad wrote: »

Of the other Irish 2nd rows who would you have given a central contract to ahead of Ryan?
Leamy shouldnt have got a CC as their is plenty of players ahead of him
Even if Horgan retires ye have an abundance of wingers

The only second row I would have on a central contract is POC. He is the outstanding one that should have his game time and rest periods managed. Ryan, DOC, Tuohy, Toner, Mike Mc, Caldwell are all a level below him and should be able to slot into the national team without too much disruption. None should have central contracts.

Not even mentioning the up and coming guys who are being held back by... the central contracts system.

Clegg

It would be terrible if Luke left Ireland altogether. We have an ultraversatile back that can play anywhere along the backline from 11-15 and the IRFU are seemingly happy to let him leave? Players like that are worth their weight in gold.

He made has Ireland debut when he was still a teenager and was a test Lion at 21, he still has so much potential. I think people are forgetting that he was the in form Irish back going into the 6 Nations. He was poor in attack last year but he seems to have ironed out those problems now.

We're mentioning guys like Conway, D.Kearney, Carr as possible replacements for Fitzgerald but none of them are remotely close to him in terms of ability imo. Conway may have the chance to be something special but he needs to stay fit for longer than 3 months without getting injured.

padraig.od

Clegg wrote: »

It would be terrible if Luke left Ireland altogether. We have an ultraversatile back that can play anywhere along the backline from 11-15 and the IRFU are seemingly happy to let him leave? Players like that are worth their weight in gold.

He made has Ireland debut when he was still a teenager and was a test Lion at 21, he still has so much potential. I think people sre forgetting that he was the in form Irish back going into the 6 Nations. He was poor in attack last year but he seems to have ironed out those problems now.

Debatable! Unproven anywhere bar the wing and a few flashes at centre. Didn't cover himself in glory playing at fullback.

padraig.od

padraig.od wrote: »

The only second row I would have on a central contract is POC. He is the outstanding one that should have his game time and rest periods managed. Ryan, DOC, Tuohy, Toner, Mike Mc, Caldwell are all a level below him and should be able to slot into the national team without too much disruption. None should have central contracts.

Not even mentioning the up and coming guys who are being held back by... the central contracts system.

completely agree with this.

We either use the Central Contracts as they were intended, or not at all.

They should really only be for players that we "couldn't bear to be without".

ormond lad

padraig.od wrote: »

The only second row I would have on a central contract is POC. He is the outstanding one that should have his game time managed and rest periods managed. Ryan, DOC, Tuohy, Toner, Mike Mc, Caldwell are all a level below him and should be able to slot into the national team without too much disruption. None should have central contracts.

Not even mentioning the up and coming guys who are being held back by... the central contracts system.

You will always have at least 2 2nd rows on Central Contracts, and IMO its Ryan with Tuohy and Toner next in line with DOC nowhere near a green jersey
All the 2nd rows do need to be looked at esp Tuohy who should have had way more opportunitys to play in green than he has
Some of the younger 2nd rows arent being held back by central contracts, for example Nagle and Dave Foley(who i rate ahead of Nagle) are not being held back by central contracts as even without POC, DR, DOC they still have to compete with MOD, Billy Holland and MOD will always be ahead as without internationals Micko is usually captain

Clegg

padraig.od wrote: »

Debatable! Unproven anywhere bar the wing and a few flashes at centre. Didn't cover himself in glory playing at fullback.

His games at centre this season were better than anything I've seen from Darcy over the last 18 months or so. That may not mean much considering how poorly Darcy had played but st least we know Fitz is capable of being a decent centre. Our lack of options at IC probably means that Fitz would be the best choice for 12 anyway.

Fitz was very bad in the 6 Nations at full back but he was lacking confidence and had no form whatsoever. He's had a few decent games at 15 for Leinster since then. He'd only be 3rd choice for Leinster and for Ireland but he could provide adequate cover for the position.

padraig.od

ormond lad wrote: »

You will always have at least 2 2nd rows on Central Contracts, and IMO its Ryan with Tuohy and Toner next in line with DOC nowhere near a green jersey
All the 2nd rows do need to be looked at esp Tuohy who should have had way more opportunitys to play in green than he has
Some of the younger 2nd rows arent being held back by central contracts, for example Nagle and Dave Foley(who i rate ahead of Nagle) are not being held back by central contracts as even without POC, DR, DOC they still have to compete with MOD, Billy Holland and MOD will always be ahead as without internationals Micko is usually captain

Why? Its not like we are stuck for second rows, like we are with tight head props and out halves.

[Jackass]

Want to wait for thomond to start a thread, but what team would you go with for the Munster game?

I'd like to see:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. White
4. Cullen
5. Thorn
6. O'Brien
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. O'Driscoll (I missed writing that)
14. Nacewa
15. R. Kearney

16. Cronin 17. Van Der Merwe 18. Ross 19. Toner 20. Ryan 21. Boss 22. Madigan 23. D. Kearney

I think a real point worth noting will be how selection at 12 goes. I think D'Arcy gets A LOT of undeserved flack, and has done for years, and whilst he's certainly not playing his best rugby right now, McFadden should start at 12 on the basis of how well he's playing alone, not because of D'Arcy's form. McFadden has been superb all season, and once again was a stand out performer in an otherwise poor Leinster performance at the weekend.

I also think White should start ahead of Ross, both in terms of fitness, but form and ability too. I don't think Joe agrees, but I think he's a more combatative, physical presence around the park, and he's as strong in the scrum.

Other than those 2 calls, the team more or less picks its self. I've a feeling Joe will go with Boss to counter Murray starting, but I'd rather we focus on our own plan and go with Reddan and really try and pull away from Munster early and bring on more physical players when lads tire out.

I'd go for Toner ahead of Browne for his lineout ability, both have been very good, but Munster lineout might be something worth targetting. Dave Kearney gets bench as best performing back 3 player outside of the internationals.

Anyone care to hazard a guess at Munster team?

I'm treating this game as a loss from the start and just hoping for no injuries. That way I can't be dissapointed with the result, but it's game on now for the run in, pressure is on Munster.

.ak

padraig.od wrote: »

Debatable! Unproven anywhere bar the wing and a few flashes at centre. Didn't cover himself in glory playing at fullback.

Jeez, did Fitzy piss in your cornflakes or something?

You seem to be basing all your arguements on his form based on 2011 when he was self-admittedly off form. If you actually looked at the league and H-cup games (apart from the Bath game) this season you'd know why there's such a fuss being made over him.

He was our standout player week in week out since September til December. He covered 11, 12 and 15 and in every one of those games he put MoTM performances in. Think what you like, but he's currently Leinster's stand out back by a country mile. Isa has been hot and cold this season, and the Kearney's have been solid, but Fitz's all round game has been sublime. His awareness, tackling, and kicking game is just important as his attacking game, all of which he's been top notch at.

He had one bad game on Friday, but lest I remind people, so did Isa...

@ Jackass, don't think Murray is available.

Tigerandahalf

[Jackass] wrote: »

Want to wait for thomond to start a thread, but what team would you go with for the Munster game?

I'd like to see:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. White
4. Cullen
5. Thorn
6. O'Brien
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. O'Driscoll (I missed writing that)
14. Nacewa
15. R. Kearney

16. Cronin 17. Van Der Merwe 18. Ross 19. Toner 20. Ryan 21. Boss 22. Madigan 23. D. Kearney

One thing that stands out about that team is the lack of a real lineout catcher. I think Thorn is more of a 4 than a 5 and himself and Cullen would fit the same category. There is no height in the backrow either. I wonder will Leinster struggle in the lineout going forward in the season. It will be interesting to see what combination they pick as Thorn was never overly used in the lineout for NZ.

thomond2006

[Jackass] wrote: »

Want to wait for thomond to start a thread, but what team would you go with for the Munster game?

I'd like to see:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. White
4. Cullen
5. Thorn
6. O'Brien
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. O'Driscoll (I missed writing that)
14. Nacewa
15. R. Kearney

16. Cronin 17. Van Der Merwe 18. Ross 19. Toner 20. Ryan 21. Boss 22. Madigan 23. D. Kearney

I think a real point worth noting will be how selection at 12 goes. I think D'Arcy gets A LOT of undeserved flack, and has done for years, and whilst he's certainly not playing his best rugby right now, McFadden should start at 12 on the basis of how well he's playing alone, not because of D'Arcy's form. McFadden has been superb all season, and once again was a stand out performer in an otherwise poor Leinster performance at the weekend.

I also think White should start ahead of Ross, both in terms of fitness, but form and ability too. I don't think Joe agrees, but I think he's a more combatative, physical presence around the park, and he's as strong in the scrum.

Other than those 2 calls, the team more or less picks its self. I've a feeling Joe will go with Boss to counter Murray starting, but I'd rather we focus on our own plan and go with Reddan and really try and pull away from Munster early and bring on more physical players when lads tire out.

I'd go for Toner ahead of Browne for his lineout ability, both have been very good, but Munster lineout might be something worth targetting. Dave Kearney gets bench as best performing back 3 player outside of the internationals.

Anyone care to hazard a guess at Munster team?

I'm treating this game as a loss from the start and just hoping for no injuries. That way I can't be dissapointed with the result, but it's game on now for the run in, pressure is on Munster.

If I have time to start a thread I'll try!

Possible Munster team (assuming Murray, POC and Ryan are out):
du Preez, Varley, Botha, DOC, MOD, DOC2.0, POM, Coughlan;
TOL, ROG, Murphy, Mafi, Earls, Zebo, Jones

Bench: Sherry, Horan, Archer, Holland, TOD, Williams, Keatley, Hurley

ambid

[Jackass] wrote: »

Want to wait for thomond to start a thread, but what team would you go with for the Munster game?

I'd like to see:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. White
4. Cullen
5. Thorn
6. O'Brien
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. O'Driscoll (I missed writing that)
14. Nacewa
15. R. Kearney

16. Cronin 17. Van Der Merwe 18. Ross 19. Toner 20. Ryan 21. Boss 22. Madigan 23. D. Kearney

...

No McLaughlin? I think he's a fairly safe bet probably to start, or at least be on the bench, probably ahead of Jennings. Unless he has an injury I've missed? He's been in good form this season and Schmidt seems to be a big fan.

I suspect Ryan will be in the B&I semi to get some more gametime, he looks like he needs a little more time. Ross should start though I think.

You're right about McFadden IMO. I'd really like to see him start this one.

Otacon

thomond2006 wrote: »

If I have time to start a thread I'll try!

Possible Munster team (assuming Murray, POC and Ryan are out):
du Preez, Varley, Botha, DOC, MOD, DOC2.0, POM, Coughlan;
TOL, ROG, Murphy, Mafi, Earls, Zebo, Jones

Bench: Sherry, Horan, Archer, Holland, TOD, Williams, Keatley, Hurley

I would have Hurley ahead of Murphy [with Zebo at 11 and Hurley at 14] and TOD ahead of DOC2.0 [with a similar swap of position with POM]

Fireball07

Otacon wrote: »

I would have Hurley ahead of Murphy [with Zebo at 11 and Hurley at 14] and TOD ahead of DOC2.0 [with a similar swap of position with POM]

Same as me.