Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

.ak

tolosenc wrote: »

Watching the Rugby Club, Stuart Barnes is backing Leinster.

Also, not surprising on this point. I'd say Stuart Barnes has Leinster PJ's....

Hype710

Highlanders must have been watching Leinster lately!

decisions

Sextons pass was better.

Fishooks12

No surprise

Learn from the best so they say

Quint2010

[Jackass] wrote: »

Presumably, in order to fix the draw for Biarritz (who have never played a semi final in either competition outside of France, something like 6 / 6, and have about a 80% success ratio in drawing Italian teams, about 8 /10 iirc, seeding and no seeding) that the balls are "hot" and "cold" to determine the outcome of the draw when being preformed in front of a live audience (as it used to be conducted behind closed doors and took a long time before they would agree to do it publicly, so presumably until they found a solution to continue fixing the draws...)

Some say tinfoil hat material, some say FACT!

The Aviva is going to be seeing alot of traffic in next years HC so! The semi final draw HAS to be fixed. 2010 final in Paris-both french teams drawn at home in the semi's. 2012-Saracens at home (if they had won) all the way to Twickenham.

Podge_irl

The SF draw isn't fixed. PWC would throw a bloody fit if it was.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

The SF draw isn't fixed. PWC would throw a bloody fit if it was.

Donal Lenihan has been involved in the draw before, he says it isn't fixed. They'd be opening themselves up to all sorts of legal issues if it was found to be fixed I reckon.

almighty1

decisions wrote: »

Sextons pass was better.

And also wasnt forward like that one.

Fishooks12

almighty1 wrote: »

And also wasnt forward like that one.

It wasn't close to forward in fairness

.ak

almighty1 wrote: »

And also wasnt forward like that one.

Who's pass was forward? Delaney's or Sexton's? Neither were close to being forward...

bamboozle

[Jackass] wrote: »

Presumably, in order to fix the draw for Biarritz (who have never played a semi final in either competition outside of France, something like 6 / 6, and have about a 80% success ratio in drawing Italian teams, about 8 /10 iirc, seeding and no seeding) that the balls are "hot" and "cold" to determine the outcome of the draw when being preformed in front of a live audience (as it used to be conducted behind closed doors and took a long time before they would agree to do it publicly, so presumably until they found a solution to continue fixing the draws...)

Some say tinfoil hat material, some say FACT!

i've been saying for a long time Biarritz nearly always get home draws in the play off stages not to mention the fact they nearly always have an italian team in their group and in the rare years without an italian group they've had glasgow.

throw in the fact Yachvilli was held back playing for Biarritz rather than france in the 6n's and you really gotta wonder about the clout Blanco has.

The Jaw

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's very awkward to comment here as we barely any of the information. Leamy could have taken a big pay cut to secure his contract, we just don't know.

D'arcy and Stringer have said they took paycuts, I think they did anyway, when they were last in contract negotiations.

What we do know is that Kearney and Ross signed new deals last March and that come May the only news you tend to hear is of players signing with new clubs. Is Fitzgeralds contract up this summer?

I do think it is worth noting that nearly all of the Leinster players who end up in contract disputes over the years are represented by the same agent- Fintan Drury. He looks after Sexton, Fitzgerald, D'Arcy, O'Brien etc. He seems to play the media game a lot more than other agents ( Shaggy was also looked after by him and he then comes out and says Leinster have to keep Fitzgerald). Leamy, O'Callaghan are represented by John Baker and they have gotten long term, apparently well paid contracts for some reason.

I am not drawing a conclusion here, really just an observation. It looks like i) The IRFU are punishing Drury and his stable for their consistenly public released in relation to negotiations. This is not beyond the IRFU I think ( Having dealt with Drury on a non-sport related issue previously, I know this is his MO big time) ii) The other agents are much better than him and do it quickly and quietly iii) The other agents are much worse than him and sign their players up to any contract at all no matter the price ( The fact that, say Baker, has O'Connell, Earls, Jennings etc for a long time would seem to indicate that he does an OK job by them. Presumably they all talk money amongst each other.

GerM

bamboozle wrote: »

i've been saying for a long time Biarritz nearly always get home draws in the play off stages not to mention the fact they nearly always have an italian team in their group and in the rare years without an italian group they've had glasgow.

Having an Italian side in your pool far from guarantees an easy group. I wouldn't have considered this year's pool containing Sarries and Ospreys particularly handy. Nor the year they had Leicester and Wasps. Munster's group 2 years ago with Northampton and Perpignan was far from handy too.

padraig.od

The Jaw wrote: »

I do think it is worth noting that nearly all of the Leinster players who end up in contract disputes over the years are represented by the same agent- Fintan Drury. He looks after Sexton, Fitzgerald, D'Arcy, O'Brien etc. He seems to play the media game a lot more than other agents ( Shaggy was also looked after by him and he then comes out and says Leinster have to keep Fitzgerald). Leamy, O'Callaghan are represented by John Baker and they have gotten long term, apparently well paid contracts for some reason.

I am not drawing a conclusion here, really just an observation. It looks like i) The IRFU are punishing Drury and his stable for their consistenly public released in relation to negotiations. This is not beyond the IRFU I think ( Having dealt with Drury on a non-sport related issue previously, I know this is his MO big time) ii) The other agents are much better than him and do it quickly and quietly iii) The other agents are much worse than him and sign their players up to any contract at all no matter the price ( The fact that, say Baker, has O'Connell, Earls, Jennings etc for a long time would seem to indicate that he does an OK job by them. Presumably they all talk money amongst each other.

Do you talk money with your work colleagues?

[Jackass]

The Jaw wrote: »

I do think it is worth noting that nearly all of the Leinster players who end up in contract disputes over the years are represented by the same agent- Fintan Drury. He looks after Sexton, Fitzgerald, D'Arcy, O'Brien etc. He seems to play the media game a lot more than other agents ( Shaggy was also looked after by him and he then comes out and says Leinster have to keep Fitzgerald). Leamy, O'Callaghan are represented by John Baker and they have gotten long term, apparently well paid contracts for some reason.

I am not drawing a conclusion here, really just an observation. It looks like i) The IRFU are punishing Drury and his stable for their consistenly public released in relation to negotiations. This is not beyond the IRFU I think ( Having dealt with Drury on a non-sport related issue previously, I know this is his MO big time) ii) The other agents are much better than him and do it quickly and quietly iii) The other agents are much worse than him and sign their players up to any contract at all no matter the price ( The fact that, say Baker, has O'Connell, Earls, Jennings etc for a long time would seem to indicate that he does an OK job by them. Presumably they all talk money amongst each other.

Excellent post and is something I had been saying at the time (he also looks after Heaslip btw) that this guy is a cancer in Irish rugby.

I know some people disagree saying (and rightly so) that players have short careers are entitled to earn as much as possible, but in fairness, if I was to go to my employer and demand wages that simply weren't sustainable, I would be let go if we couldn't agree, and they may have to make do with someone who has less ability, but capable and will come in on budget.

Fintan Drury is unreasonably driving up wages in Irish rugby, and is negotiating on the basis of what players could get in France etc., and of course, the players want every last cent they can get, but it's only a matter of time that Leinster and Ireland (and possibly other provinces) lose a player of great ability over a money move to France, and once that precedent is set, it's not unreasonable to assume that if Fitz is reported to get 500k in France per season, there could be an exodes of Irish players in Welsh preportions, and concievably, the whole gravy train would collapse, with IRFU not willing to bankrupt themselves over a few players, our best players looking at the money in France and seeing guys going and still getting picked for Ireland, the performance and thus results suffer in the provinces, Heineken Cup challanges become a thing of the past, crowd numbers drop, money is even more scarce, and we get to a stage where Irish provinces can't compete financially, and are facing their own players in Europe for big French teams...


It's a long reach, but the point is, imo, this guy is a slime ball bringing in the del boy and football aspect into rugby, all in the name to make a quick buck, and dragging the most talented players with him by boosting their ego and excusing any greed.

Everyone he deals with has negotiations dragged out for months, even years, and I know it's only a matter of time before the house of cards collapses and this guy talks players into French moves to get their money, he gets his commission and the problems start.

Will Luke be the first?

sickpuppy

Yer man Drurys job is to get the best deal for his players and of course himself sure its commission based like an auctioneer or estate agent.

As has been pointed out the irfu seems to be constantly bluffed players in the media seen stuffing a few croissants into there gobs talking about the great culture etc.

Leg it too France instead of talking about it for a change plenty of able cheaper replacements gagging for some action.

Would players not get much more battered over in France im sure if a club is paying big bucks they want you playing the whole time.

The player welfare scheme here gives lads great oppurtunity to rest and if they have an injury can get a game off.

I dont begrudge the players anything they earn work hard and provide great entertainemnt but there is not an unlimited pot of gold to work with.

Legion2008

You might disagree with the methods that Fintan Drury employs (and if he does like to conduct his business through the media then it is pretty poor) but he's doing the job he's employed to do ... maximise his clients earnings.

It is inevitable that frontline Irish players will start to move abroad to maximise earnings becasue quite frankly the IRFU won't be able to afford to pay the salary levels but let's play devils advocate here .... is this necessarily a bad thing for Irish rugby in general? It'll drive the development of younger players and therefore strengten the depth of the team for the international team (while by all accounts is the major breadwinner).

We presently have 4 teams that we draw our playing pool from (though in reality only 3, Connacht is underresourced), if the front line player move abroad then the academy players start coming through .... take the example of Fitz, I don't want to see him leave Leinster, however if he does who is in the wings? Dave Kearney, Carr gets more game time ... waiting further back in the wings is Conway plus others ... these players get regular game time and exposure to Heineken cup rugby.

Calling somebody a slime ball for doing their job is harsh ... you may not agree with what he does but his primary role is to get his clients the best deal for them, the players themselves need to look at the options around money, lifestyle etc to decide if they want to move abroad .... it won't suit every player and you'd find that some would be happy to stay at home for less money ...

Are you saying that if you were offered another job for more money you wouldn't change .... ? This is no different a scenario ... if you wanted to stay in your current employment then you'd go to your employer and ask for more money, if they were unwilling to match salary then are you saying that you'd simply stay out of loyalty?

The Jaw

sickpuppy wrote: »

Yer man Drurys job is to get the best deal for his players and of course himself sure its commission based like an auctioneer or estate agent.

I dont really have any problem with the concept of the agents maximising the players wages. God knows they go through so much hardship whilst I sit on my fat a*se drinking pints and shouting at them!

I just seems to me that he uses very poor tactics/ tacit threats through the medium of the press to try and do this. He seems to have taken an view that, say Luke, is far more beloved by the people than the suits in the IRFU and that if he publicises that Luke might go to France, then then IRFU will have to fold and pay his desired salary or else the public will dispise them ( Imagine the vitriol on boards if he did actually leave) I can only imagine that this will have a destabilising effect on the player himself. As someone else pointed out, it seems that all negotiations are carried out before March usually. Maybe that is why Luke was not playing well enought to get in the 6N squad? ( Idle speculation I know!!)
Take for example Tony Buckley in Munster. Whilst he is not in Lukes league, he was a highly paid International playing in Ireland. Munster obviously didnt want to pay him that much, although they did state that they wanted to keep him, so it was just announced that he was off to the UK. It all seems to have been done behind closed doors.

We all know from negotiations that if you go in like a bull in a china shop , you paint yourself into a corner. Seems that Drury does this a lot and the players welfare/peace of mind/ actual game suffers.

[Jackass]

Yeah banking CEO's jobs' were to maximize profits for shareholders, and themselves, and just like Finatan Drury, they made a hell of a lot of money, didn't really give a sh*t about what they left behind, and when they milked every last drop out of the gravy train, retired to the Med without a care in the world, and left ruins behind them.

They were only doing their job too. Doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean ethics and standards should be abandoned in the name of profit.

[/first world problems]

I think a solution would be immediately announcing that non-Irish based players will not be selected for the national team. A bold move by the IRFU, and they are too conservative to do it, and their fear of a collapsing national team is causing a collapse of the national team, but give a professional incentive to remain in Ireland, and earn your tax breaks and represent your country.

Also, play on a stigma of being a mercenary. A certain amount of loyalty should be involved in remaining with the people who have spent hundreds of thousands on developing your talent, and only pay you a quarter of a million a year. Yes players have short careers, but I don't see anyone stopping them from going and getting an accounting qualification and living in the real world with the rest of us if they don't like it.

I just think 250k per year to play for your country and province and to enjoy celebrity status and have a million doors opened to you for post-playing day careers that only professional sports men can enjoy (such as coaching, and to a lesser extent punditry and journalism, along with consultation, and also giving a name / brand for endorsements, and opening a massive door of good will and contacts for any private endeavors, with a huge pay packet at your disposal to get involved in investing), this should be enough imo, and quite frankly, anyone who leaves does it out of pure greed, and the devil in disguise is an agent who couldn't give 2 sh*ts about anyone's well being, be it the player or the sport, and is a professional sh*t talker looking to leach off the talent of others.

guapos

Regarding Fitzgerald, the IRFU are trying to lower his wage so it is only right that his agent would be looking for a better deal for him, it's not as if Drury has gone in and tried to drive his price up.

JustinDee

guapos wrote: »

Regarding Fitzgerald, the IRFU are trying to lower his wage so it is only right that his agent would be looking for a better deal for him, it's not as if Drury has gone in and tried to drive his price up.

Really?

If bigger salaries are important to any player whatsoever, then by all means they should go ahead and play abroad.

davidpfitz

JustinDee wrote: »

Really?

If bigger salaries are important to any player whatsoever, then by all means they should go ahead and play abroad.

Of course they're important!! They hardly will play for free, and have every right to seek the best possible remuneration for their work, no matter is that is here or abroad. What kind of idiot would want to work for less money when they could negotiate for more?

The Jaw

davidpfitz wrote: »

Of course they're important!! They hardly will play for free, and have every right to seek the best possible remuneration for their work, no matter is that is here or abroad. What kind of idiot would want to work for less money when they could negotiate for more?

Yes, but they key there is "they could negotiate for more". For whatever reason the IRFU can't/won't meet his salary expectations. There is nothing wrong with trying your best to get the finest deal for him, but when it starts to effects his play and his lifestyle choices ( by that I mean that he might need to move from his home town etc) then it seem to me that it has been over negotiated. Sexton and Heaslip have said previously that the negotiations and uncertainty was very unpleasant to deal with
When I trade in my car, the salesman usually gives me less than I want, but I have to accept that I am getting a good deal all the same.

.ak

Saw this on LF... Did anyone notice Rob Kearney in the Evening Herald's Free Squad Poster? Or rather, Kearney's hand?

Legend.

LEIN

Here it is.

MungBean

What jersey is that ?

.ak

MungBean wrote: »

What jersey is that ?

Training jersey. IIRC they sold these at the begining of the season on some sites, but can't get them now (well you can buy them in gold), which is a shame as they're nice, not far off our H-cup tops last season.

almighty1

.ak wrote: »

Who's pass was forward? Delaney's or Sexton's? Neither were close to being forward...

Delaneys. I suggest you look at it again. The ball definitely goes forward but maybe could argue the player passes the ball backwards in context to himself but still the ball travels forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s

Fishooks12

almighty1 wrote: »

Delaneys. I suggest you look at it again. The ball definitely goes forward but maybe could argue the player passes the ball backwards in context to himself but still the ball travels forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s

Not trying to be smart here but if you think Delaney's pass was forward you need the spectacles checked man

Not even a question of it being forward

.ak

almighty1 wrote: »

Delaneys. I suggest you look at it again. The ball definitely goes forward but maybe could argue the player passes the ball backwards in context to himself but still the ball travels forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s

I've freeze framed it and it's definitely not. The player throws it backwards, behind him. You realize that officials recognizes the momentum rule, right? If a player was pinged for a forward pass because the ball traveled forward under its own momentum then 90% of running passes would be forward. So long as the player throws the ball BEHIND himself towards a runner that is also running BEHIND the gain line, then it is a legal and backwards pass.


Not that I even need to explain that in this instance, the pass goes a few feet backwards...