Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Spud83

Regardless of contract, there does seem to be the perception that Heaslip would be more open to a move abroad then Sexton alright. While at the same time Sexton won't stay if he is lowballed on the contract.

Basically if Heaslip gets offered the same as lets say BOD for arguments sake, then I still think there is a chance he could go. If Sexton got that kind of offer then he would sign straight away IMO.

roycon

hines, cullen, toner,ed odonoghue, mariano galarza, trevor hogan, eoin sheriff, ciaran ruddock, mark flannagan,ben marshall, kev mclaughlin?

these are all the second rows in the academy and senior squad. people are forgetting about ed odonoghue i think

Sangre

[Jackass] wrote: »

As for our defence, I don't 100% buy into this philosophy that our poor defense at times is a result of our attacking play (well, in some cases, such as the intercepts thrown, it probably has been), but the main reason for the lapses has been poor concentraiton.

We're not the finished article yet, and our defence only tends to leak when we're far enough ahead that the concentration cap dip, and teams can make comebacks, but once refocussed, we can pull away again.

Not perfect, but doing a lot of things right, and I don't think the defensive system is the problem, it's keeping the players focused for the full 80 that's let us down. But I'm not complaining. These things will be addressed and you don't need to be perfect to win trophies, you just need to win your games.

I agree completely that our defensive issues are a result of concentration (or lack thereof) rather than a failing in the system itself. If anything, our defensive system has limited the number of tries we probably would have leaked due to breaks. In the Sarries game, even before they scored I said that we were far too lax defensively and they had got in behind us two or three times before they scored because of Luke's mistake. A team like Toulouse or even Clermont would have lapped up those dips in concentration. I do accept the point thought that Leinster step it up against big teams.

I think what worries me slightly about the defensive problems - which are by no means huge butshouldn't be there in a team with team HCup aspirations - is we are allowing far greater clean breaks than before, rather than just relenting after sustained pressure. I actually have no problem with Leinster's defensive under pressure, its just too many gaps/breaks have happened for my liking. I dunno, maybe I'm too used to incredible Leinster defence.

Glad people agree with me about Heaslip who is, in my opinion, the complete number eight. Superb around the park, in the tackle, in the air and behind the scrum. I don't think I've ever seen him lose a ball at feet, even in a struggling pack. He is such an intelligent player as well. Also got some work rate, how many times has he galloped the pitch to make a last minute try saving tackle? While SOB is incredible, and I've sung his praises for a long time, he isn't the complete number eight yet.

tolosenc

While losing a player like Heaslip would be a big blow, it's testament to the depth of the squad and the policies put in place regarding youth development in the process that we wouldn't really suffer too badly.

I'd prefer if he stayed, though.

anonymous_joe

Thanos wrote: »

Want to be careful posting a statement like that, might find a lot of people click on the "Thanks" button

I've been on here a while, I'm sure most people have already made their opinions of me abundantly clear at one time or another. :pac:

Sangre

tolosenc wrote: »

While losing a player like Heaslip would be a big blow, it's testament to the depth of the squad and the policies put in place regarding youth development in the process that we wouldn't really suffer too badly.

I'd prefer if he stayed, though.

Ok, Heaslip goes and SOB becomes our no.1 8. Who plays 8 if SOB is injured or on international duty (which he will be a lot). Keogh? While Keogh is one of my favourite squad players I think we can all agree he isn't quite at the same level as the other two. If SOB is injured/gone and then Keogh is injured then who plays 8? I think Leinster aren't as deep at no.8 as we think. Few backrowers could fill the roll but no actual no.8s, which is a specialised spot.

jolley123

I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Heaslip or McLaughlin or even Dippy go down south. Not saying we wouldn't suffer as a result but it sure would be interesting to see how they would do. Nothing more than a 1yr deal. It's always bugged me to see so many SH players come up and make it into HCUP starting 15s and not see any evidence of NH players prospering down south.

Sangre

Makes no financial sense to go down south. Players, even from Ireland, would be usually on a lot less, especially given the usual strength of the euro/sterling vs. southern currencies.

themont85

Heaslip will be the frontrunner to be Ireland captain and possibly the Lions captain too in 2013. That's a lot of money to turn down aligned to the lost tax break. I don't see him going personally.

jolley123

Sangre wrote: »

Ok, Heaslip goes and SOB becomes our no.1 8. Who plays 8 if SOB is injured or on international duty (which he will be a lot). Keogh? While Keogh is one of my favourite squad players I think we can all agree he isn't quite at the same level as the other two. If SOB is injured/gone and then Keogh is injured then who plays 8? I think Leinster aren't as deep at no.8 as we think. Few backrowers could fill the roll but no actual no.8s, which is a specialised spot.

Yeh but at the same time, you could have said the same thing last year about losing McLaughlin at 6. There was no cover there other than Keogh and I guess Hines. But look at Leinster now in that position. There is talent in Leinster that is still in untapped like Paul Ryan. Not dismissing the importance of Heaslip, but it's not like 'if he goes we're doomed'.

CouchSmart

When SOB becomes are most consistent player over a 3 year period I'll start to think about comparing him to Heaslip.

Sangre

jolley123 wrote: »

Yeh but at the same time, you could have said the same thing last year about losing McLaughlin at 6. There was no cover there other than Keogh and I guess Hines. But look at Leinster now in that position. There is talent in Leinster that is still in untapped like Paul Ryan. Not dismissing the importance of Heaslip, but it's not like 'if he goes we're doomed'.

His injury wasn't planned and there was nothing Leinster could do about it. The same can't be said about trying to keep Heaslip. I think it would be unwise leaving ourselves with only one HCup standard no.8 that we know of. Of course guys could make the step up but there is no guarantee. Even if they do make the step up, who knows how long that would take.

jolley123

Sangre wrote: »

His injury wasn't planned and there was nothing Leinster could do about it. The same can't be said about trying to keep Heaslip. I think it would be unwise leaving ourselves with only one HCup standard no.8 that we know of. Of course guys could make the step up but there is no guarantee. Even if they do make the step up, who knows how long that would take.

I don't think we will, I'd be extremely surprised if Heaslip goes.

The Rooster

Both Sexton and Heaslip really want to stay with Leinster.

But like anyone in any job, they won't take a rubbish offer when there are far better offers on the table.

I get the impression the IRFU think they can low ball to beat the band because of these tax breaks (which could go at any time).

As I said before the Leinster supporters should be screaming from the rooftops to ensure these super players get the appropriate contracts. All the lads are looking for is a fair deal, considering they are the best out half and best forward in the country.

iamjenko

The Rooster wrote: »

Both Sexton and Heaslip really want to stay with Leinster.

But like anyone in any job, they won't take a rubbish offer when there are far better offers on the table.

I get the impression the IRFU think they can low ball to beat the band because of these tax breaks (which could go at any time).

As I said before the Leinster supporters should be screaming from the rooftops to ensure these super players get the appropriate contracts. All the lads are looking for is a fair deal, considering they are the best out half and best forward in the country.

Fair deal is all well and good, but if they are holding out for the Union to stump French club type money they will be holding out a long time. There just isnt that sort of money to go around. Not saying that they are, just the impression i get

GerM

With Skrela confirmed as moving to Clermont now on a 3 year deal I would think that the Toulouse offer is a very real one as is the danger of Jonny leaving. He'd be a match made in heaven for them. Good runner, slick passer and can kick his goals. He'd make sweet music with Jauzion, Fritz, Clerc, Heymans, Caucau and Poitrenaud.

Hopefully the IRFU are aware of the situation and act accordingly.

phog

Look at this from the IRFU side, where are they supposed to get the money to pay the salaries being demanded by Sexton and Heaslip to match what's on offer in France. There is a genuine threat on the finace they get from TV rites and they have had to reduce their take on international games in the Aviva and I'd guess that sponsorship and corporate donations has dropped from the high of the Celtic Tiger years. The two guys will probably still make themselves available for international games so it's leinster that will suffer from the loss of the players.

Should Leinster offer to offset some of the wage bill to ensure they stay at home? They have proven they can fill the Aviva 2 or 3 times a year and that must surley fill their coffers, would it be worht their while investing in Irish players as opposed to buying in foreign players.

[Jackass]

Well Sexton would definitely require a foreign import, and I'd imagine that the import would not be paid substantially less than Sexton would, so for a non-major amount of money in comparrison, we'd be losing the best 10 in the country. Leinster should certainly off-set this amount.

Heaslip probably wouldn't be replaced, and as such, is "affordable" to lose to the IRFU, sadly.

It's funny how when Leinsters golden generation arrive, having squad depth is now a luxury, apperantly not being afforded to us.

The IRFU should intervene and should (and if I was arsed I'd find a post from over a year ago warning about this) introduce the rule that only home based players will be considerd for selection with Ireland, and should have a long time ago, brought in the rule that overseas players wont be considerd for selection.

At that time, we were just about to half the size of our stadium and the country was going to sh*t, and the only major player we had abroad was Tommy Bowe, who was coming to the end of his contract.

Since then, he's signed a three year extension, and we are now seeing possibly the next Irish captain and number one ten for the next decade threatening to go, we just about held off offers for the best young back-row coming through in the country and if the rule is not announced now, as this is the latest point before it's too late, the golden era of Irish rugby will decline as we will simply be unable to keep our best players and the provinces will suffer as a result, and the more they suffer, the less attractive they become and we'll be paying journey men to try and fill the gaps while losing our best and brightest.

Do it now IRFU, do it NOW! Even if the law is applied retrospectively, that only contracts signed with foreign clubs GOING FORWARD (and not players on existing contracts with foreign clubs) will not be considerd for national selection.

If Australia didn't do it, they'd have lost their captain and star player Rocky Elsom for good, but he went back for international rugby on a much lower wage...it works..DO .... IT.... NOWWWW!!!

Are we going to wait for our player base to be raped like the English clubs were at the first smell of financial weakness? Because we don't have the player base they have, it only takes a few key players to be pulled away before it really dents our provinces, and they were driven to doing it to stop a growing problem, why are we waiting for the problem before doing it??

It's ALMOST too late, but this must be announced this season. Even if we lose Johnny and Heaslip, they'll only be the begining of a flow of players to leave, especially post world cup.

Irfu have really gone to sh*t.

phog

phog wrote: »

Look at this from the IRFU side, where are they supposed to get the money to pay the salaries being demanded by Sexton and Heaslip to match what's on offer in France. There is a genuine threat on the finace they get from TV rites and they have had to reduce their take on international games in the Aviva and I'd guess that sponsorship and corporate donations has dropped from the high of the Celtic Tiger years. The two guys will probably still make themselves available for international games so it's leinster that will suffer from the loss of the players.

Should Leinster offer to offset some of the wage bill to ensure they stay at home? They have proven they can fill the Aviva 2 or 3 times a year and that must surley fill their coffers, would it be worht their while investing in Irish players as opposed to buying in foreign players.

From not paying over the hill bench warmers the money that should be reserved for current talent

lologram

phog wrote: »

Look at this from the IRFU side, where are they supposed to get the money to pay the salaries being demanded by Sexton and Heaslip to match what's on offer in France. There is a genuine threat on the finace they get from TV rites and they have had to reduce their take on international games in the Aviva and I'd guess that sponsorship and corporate donations has dropped from the high of the Celtic Tiger years. The two guys will probably still make themselves available for international games so it's leinster that will suffer from the loss of the players.

Should Leinster offer to offset some of the wage bill to ensure they stay at home? They have proven they can fill the Aviva 2 or 3 times a year and that must surley fill their coffers, would it be worht their while investing in Irish players as opposed to buying in foreign players.

As above, the IRFU shouldn't have made those deals.
Another important point though is that Sexton, in particular, isn't looking for the money that he could earn in France. James Hook is going to be on something between 400k Euro to 500k Sterling, depending on the source. Sexton could easily earn this/more than this in France. The IRFU can't match that and Sexton isn't looking for them to. He merely wants to be paid the same as O'Gara, and he should be.

Having the IRFU dice with Leinster's future is infuriating. The IRFU seem to have something of a Midas Touch in reverse: everything they touch turns to crap.

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

From not paying over the hill bench warmers the money that should be reserved for current talent

Indeed and also from not setting ticket prices to their highest ever levels in the middle of the country going bankrupt. The situation is largely of their own doing. Sexton and Heaslip shouldn't be the ones to foot the bill. The fact is, the IRFU probably wouldn't be too upset if they signed to play abroad. It would be after the WC, they'd still be released during the international windows and they wouldn't have to pay them. They must wake up every morning and thank jebus that Tommy Bowe moved to Wales.

The argument concerning being able to monitor player welfare is moot. Look at the injury list suffered by top players in this country. The likes of Flannery and Ferris continually suffer muscle injuries and we've a massive injury list. Whatever is going on with regards to the medical side of things, it ain't working.

Also, if you check the number of games played by top players in France, they do not, contrary to popular opinion, play every match. The big teams have massive squads and rotate their players accordingly. Someone like Heaslip would not be flogged week in, week, out. Look at the likes of Sowerby at Toulouse who is rotated regularly at number 8 with Picamoles.

The only party who is potentially really going to suffer in these deals is Leinster Rugby.

GerM

GerM wrote: »

The only party who is potentially really going to suffer in these deals is Leinster Rugby.

I'll be ****ing miserable if they go, I've met Heaslip before, he's some character, and he's an unbelievable rugby player. I didn't mind Rocky going too much, even though he was a God for us for the year, but Heaslip is synonymous with Leinster, and its no miracle that he has become World Class as Leinster have gotten better.

Without Sexton, we're ****ed. It's unfortunately that simple

SomeFool

GerM wrote: »

The only party who is potentially really going to suffer in these deals is Leinster Rugby.

I can't imagine it's doing great things for the harmony in the National squad either which is a more immediate worry, the IRFU really should have their house in order coming into the 6N.

jolley123

If we lose Sexton, things are going to get very grim. Without a doubt he is Leinster's most important player.

funky penguin

GerM wrote: »

The only party who is potentially really going to suffer in these deals is Leinster Rugby.

I think this is what is pissing me off the most. They're the team I support nearly every weekend of the year. I see as many live matches as a student can afford, have met the players, saw a black day in landsdowne road, saw a blue one in croke park, have had those two great days out in the aviva, have stuck through thick and thin......so I have an attachment to them that (personally) supersedes the National team.

So....it pisses me off no end that Leinster's ability to hold onto its top talent is disabled by an incompetent third party.

Bah. I suppose I'm just re-hashing what's already being said. It's just so frustrating that there isn't a clear deadline when we'll find out.

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

From not paying over the hill bench warmers the money that should be reserved for current talent

You seem to have all the facts on why Heaslip and Sexton still haven't signed a new contract. Please tell me the money Sexton and Heaslip want from the IRFU, the money they have been offered and then the money these bench warmers you refer to are on?

phog

phog wrote: »

You seem to have all the facts on why Heaslip and Sexton still haven't signed a new contract. Please tell me the money Sexton and Heaslip want from the IRFU, the money they have been offered and then the money these bench warmers you refer to are on?

no. Because it is none of my business, your business or anyone else's really.

But if you've listened to any of the podcasts/radio interviews/ read whats in the papers, Sexton has already said that he doesn't expect or hope that Leinster/IRFU match the French offers, but that he be paid accordingly for being Ireland's first choice OH.

You're usually an informed poster, would you not agree that being paid less than the guy who will be playing back up to you is ridiculous?

The IRFU made a major mistake here.

Amazotheamazing

Publicity wise, it might make sense to let one of the high profile names leave Ireland. If every player digs in his heels the IRFU lose a lot of bargaining power. There is a limit to the IRFU's money (albeit, I don't think the point should be made with either Sexton or Heaslip).

Sid_Justice

Pay the players the going rate in Ireland / UK for their talent, if they want to go to France to earn bigger bucks, exclude them the national team. This isn't soccer.

JustinDee

funky penguin wrote: »

So....it pisses me off no end that Leinster's ability to hold onto its top talent is disabled by an incompetent third party

Just thought I'd point out that there is no third-party in what you describe. This is between players and the IRFU, of which the provincial branches are part of.
Nothing to do with "incompetence" either.