Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

irishlad_85

My biggest fear is that the French teams will come in for Stan and Nacewa in addition to their supposed poaching of academy players. I know Stan and Nacewa are pretty settled in dublin but it's always a risk. Isa would walk into a lot of top 14 teams and even most Super 15 teams.

jolley123

molloyjh wrote: »

Wash your mouth out with soap. Stan can't go anywhere, sure he's only just after getting his own t-shirt.

Careful now. Down with that sort of thing! :pac:

Relax..It's All Wright Now.

Cpt_Blackbeard

jolley123 wrote: »

Relax..It's All Wright Now.

Ugh...

I can't stan puns like that :pac:

[Jackass]

durkadurka wrote: »

Re the academy, is it the talent walking in the Door of the academy or the academy itself producing the talent.

I'm inclined to think the talent is walking in the door from the schools system

The Leinster academy experiences success for a number of reasons.

ONE: It gets the pick of the crop from one of the most professionally run schools competitions in Europe, and also one of the biggest regional schools competitions in Europe.

From age grade rugby, players in rugby schools are under the attention of diet specialists, they are put on fitness routines, they train 2 to 3 times a week, and once they are brought into the Leinster schools teams, they are taken under the wing of a regional development officer who contacts them regulalry, has them in training camps, monitors their fitness and gives them advice etc.

Th big schools, such as Blackrock, Belveder, Terenure, Clongowes etc. also spend vast amounts of money in recruiting top level coaches, usually with an iffinity in the AIL, but primary roles are often with the schools teams.

They are trained and coached at a professional level, usually from as young as the age of 13 or 14 depending on the school.

TWO: The Leinste academy it's self. Once players finish at schools level they are brought through to either the Leinster academy or the Leinster sub-academy.

Sub-Academy players are invited to train and play with Leinster at A level. They are also given training and development programmes and are in close contact with development officers and ply their trade in AIL rugby and when occassionally with the Leinster A side. If enough progress is show, sub-academy players are signed up to full academy contracts. Many players spend a season or two in the sub academy before being moved to the senior academy, obviously only the cream of the crop are selected, as the academy is a small, elite collection of players that the experts of the branch know have the ability to be top class internationals, and they are nurturoed through that process. It's very selvective, as it's very expensive to put players through the academy and develop them.

Academy players are put on a full-time contract and are payed c. E25,000 per year. They attend full time education at UCD and train professionall, often with the senior Leinster squad, and they are sent to matches both home and aborad with Leinster A for interpro's and the Brittish & Irish Cup.

Players are monitored heavily during this period, and they are also on very strict conditioning programmes to get their bodies right for professional sport in a very professional and scientific manner.

The acadey players are exposed to all the best experts and facilities that the likes of Brian O'Driscoll or Richie McCaw have access to.

THREE: Education

If you do not finish third level education, you do not get a contract with Leinster.

It's the reason why parents and players are so eager for players to be involved with Leinster. You can't even make the academy without your leaving cert.

The branch take very good care of the players, but always ensure that there is a future for the players who don't make it, and further career paths for those who do.

Academy players are trained in all the skills that professional athletes would love to know. They are thought everything from having a very compitant physio knowledge, to dietician knowledge, to personal fitness trainer knowledge.

They are also thought in the skills of media and how to manage their money and the psychological pressures of being in the public eye.

They take a thrid level bachelour of arts in the following areas:

Rugby Theroy

Principles of play - Match Analysis - Skill Development - Unit Skills
Game Appreciation - Functional Role Analysis - Individual Skills - Team Skills
Game planning - Key Factor Analysis - Mini Unit Skills - Positional Skills

Fitness

Fitness Principles - Flexibility and Medical Fitness
Strength and Power - Nutrition and Recovery Strategies
Speed and Power - Rugby Specific Conditioning
Fitness Testing - Ergogenic Aids
Programme Monitoring and Injuries - Multi-Fitness Endurance

Psychological

Motivation and Goal Setting - Mental Skills
Profiling - Pre-Match Routines
Physical Relaxation - Travel and Competition

Lifestyle

Media Skills - Time Management
Drugs and Testing - Financial Management
Leadership - Public Speaking
Agents and Contracts - Further Individual Development

Typically, it is on completion of their three year degree that players are moved into either the Leinster senior squad, now educated in every part of the game, and having three years to have their physical condition adapted from schoolboy to professional rugby player that they begin fighting for their place in the team.

Essentially, Leinster rugby academy can be a ten year process from school boy to college graduate, where every skill of the game is thought from set-piece moves on the field to theroy in the class room, they can spend 5 years or more being conditioned physically, both in school and in the academy for professional sport, and essentially, the Leinster academy is considered amongst the best two or three academy systems in Europe, and certainly amongst the best in the world, at having the structure in place to identify young players (schools rugby), to train them (Leinster schools), condition them (Leinster academy) and to produce top shelf professional rugby players (Leinster senior team).

It's a long process, but the results are coming out now, and it's clear to see that a lot of work and expense goes into it, but it works...

lemansky

Terrific post Jackass. It goes to show that you get out what you put in.

profitius

lemansky wrote: »

Terrific post Jackass. It goes to show that you get out what you put in.

Kilkennys domination of hurling in recent years is further proof and last year Tipp beat them with a team full of young players who they have developed.

Man Utd are the best team in England since the mid 90's when they started to dominate helped greatly by a large crop of talented young players coming through. Arsenal are always in the top 4 of England despite being a selling club. They can do this and build a new stadium because they produce their own players.

Barcelona produce many of their own players and train them correctly. Compare them with Real Madrid who like to spend big bucks on players. Barcelona is easily the better TEAM although on paper theres not a great difference.

Ajax used to dominate Europe in the 90's with a team that was home grown. Why they are not successful anymore is beyond me.

Thats why I'm against having so many NIQ players in Irish rugby. Not only do they stop Irish players from getting more chances but they paper over the cracks in the development of young players. Munster have been doing this with backs.

madds

[Jackass] wrote: »

the Leinster academy is considered amongst the best two or three academy systems in Europe

Do you know who the other two academy systems would be? Is Toulouse one?

Beanmachine

profitius wrote: »

Kilkennys domination of hurling in recent years is further proof and last year Tipp beat them with a team full of young players who they have developed.

Man Utd are the best team in England since the mid 90's when they started to dominate helped greatly by a large crop of talented young players coming through. Arsenal are always in the top 4 of England despite being a selling club. They can do this and build a new stadium because they produce their own players.

Barcelona produce many of their own players and train them correctly. Compare them with Real Madrid who like to spend big bucks on players. Barcelona is easily the better TEAM although on paper theres not a great difference.

Ajax used to dominate Europe in the 90's with a team that was home grown. Why they are not successful anymore is beyond me.

Thats why I'm against having so many NIQ players in Irish rugby. Not only do they stop Irish players from getting more chances but they paper over the cracks in the development of young players. Munster have been doing this with backs.

I agree with you, the core of any team has to be homegrown. But there does have to be a balance, That United team had the perfect blend of home grown players like Beckham Giggs and the Nevilles mixed with world class foreigners like Cantona and Schmeichel. The current Barcelona team will go down as one of the greatest teams ever and it is dominated by home grown players with a few world class foreign players amongst them. The fans can really relate to them and idolise them, hard not to really when they play the way they do. The Barcelona philosophy ie style of play, work rate, team ethic is thought from such a young age that when the players get into the first team they don't look out of place at all and are so comfortable on the ball as their development has been mostly skill based rather than the win at all costs mentality that Irish and English teams seem to employ.

The Leinster acadamy is doing alot of things right. I love seeing the young players coming into the first team and playing well, Its testament to current and previous staff that so much quality is coming through and i can see it continuing for a long time. I love the way Schmidt is willing to give the young lads a go and it seems like he fully trusts them.

GerM

madds wrote: »

Do you know who the other two academy systems would be? Is Toulouse one?

They may be but I don't think they're in Leinster's class. They produced some top players about 10 years ago but there has been very little coming through since then. In their current squad the players that were developed by Toulouse themselves are Michalak, Poitrenaud, Bouilhou, Medard, Milo-Chluski, Lamboley and Maestri. That's out of 30 plus players. The bones of a pretty good team there but Toulouse are masters of picking up the top talent of other teams at a young age. That's where they've prospered. Jauzion, Heymans, Clerc, Picamoles, Poux, Servat, Dusatoir, Ellisalde, Skrela, Fritz and Nyanga...all taken from other clubs when they were still relatively young. Aside from Maestri and Medard, none of those developed in Toulouse are under 26 or 27.

If you're looking at developing top talent within your own team in France, you could do worse than to look at Bourgoin. They can't hang on to their players but they're responsible for Parra, Chabal, Papé, Bonnaire, Milloud, Fritz, Yann David, Pierre, Nallet and Boyet. That's 4 of the French starting 15 this weekend along with all the rest being established internationals currently playing in the T14. If Bourgoin had all those players with them today they'd be in the playoffs every year undoubtedly.

With France being such a large, money dominated league they don't need to rely anywhere near as heavily on academies as Irish teams or even English teams. Leinster and Munster would have the highest representation internationally and for the Lions in terms of squad percentages simply due to the fact there are only 4 teams in the country and the players are focussed on and receive far more exposure . They don't have to share the competition.

If you're to say the other top academy (in my opinion), Leicester have a fantastic one. Ben Youngs, Tom Croft, Louis Deacon, Dan Cole, Dan Hipkiss, Olly Smith, Manu Tuilagi, Harry Ellis (even if retired) are all internationals and mostly still quite young. Remarkable development considering the number of teams they're competing with for talent.

RuggieBear

GerM wrote: »

If you're to say the other top academy (in my opinion), Leicester have a fantastic one. Ben Youngs, Tom Croft, Louis Deacon, Dan Cole, Dan Hipkiss, Olly Smith, Manu Tuilagi, Harry Ellis (even if retired) are all internationals and mostly still quite young. Remarkable development considering the number of teams they're competing with for talent.

Leicester have one of the most professional and widespread scouting operations around. When i was at uni there (10 years ago) one of my mates from Wales had a 16 year old brother who came to stay when Leicester invited him for a trial/week long look round the facilities. They'd spotted him in Cardiff. He was surrounded by youngsters from all over the country

iamjenko

RuggieBear wrote: »

Leicester have one of the most professional and widespread scouting operations around. When i was at uni there (10 years ago) one of my mates from Wales had a 16 year old brother who came to stay when Leicester invited him for a trial/week long look round the facilities. They'd spotted him in Cardiff. He was surrounded by youngsters from all over the country

Sure look at Geordan and Johne Murphy, both played for Newbridge College/Naas RFC and ended up in Leicester!

JustinDee

iamjenko wrote: »

Sure look at Geordan and Johne Murphy, both played for Newbridge College/Naas RFC and ended up in Leicester!

And of course Eric Miller before them.

bamboozle

JustinDee wrote: »

And of course Eric Miller before them.

there was another lad who was over there initially with Murphy and Miller, a scrumhalf or winger whose names escapes me, came back after a few years and played a bit of AIL for blackrock i think...maybe his name was ferris or something like that

GerM

bamboozle wrote: »

there was another lad who was over there initially with Murphy and Miller, a scrumhalf or winger whose names escapes me, came back after a few years and played a bit of AIL for blackrock i think...maybe his name was ferris or something like that

James Ferris.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/squad/players.php?player=4280&includeref=dynamic

CouchSmart

Unfortunately Hines is due to sign for Stade - will be announced this week. Big loss, he's been a great player, one of the best NIQ signings we've made. Hard to know if we're going to sign another NIQ to make up for losing him or what - might explain the McLoughlin to 4 experiment.

Big game this Saturday against Cardiff, who are only a couple points behind us. With no Ireland game this weekend I'm hoping a few players will be made available to us; Reddan, Jennings and Cullen to be precise, though they probably won't be released until Thursday and so wil probably start on the bench - I'd still start them personally but Schmidt isn't a fan of not having them during the week.

We really need Berne to be fit this weekend as well, we're really short on centres with Macken breaking his collar bone on Thursday. If Berne's fit I assume he'll play otherwise we're looking at bringing in Sheridan or shuffling some players around with Nacewa perhaps going to centre.

I'd go for something like this, obviously assuming some players are released etc.

15. Nacewa
14. Conway
13. O'Malley
12. Berne
11. Kearney
10. McKinley
9. Boss

1. Heinke
2. Strauss
3. Newland
4. Cullen
5. Toner
6. Ryan
7. Jennings
8. Ruddock

16. JHW
17. McGrath
18. Shawe
19. McLoughlin
20. Keogh
21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Morris

trackguy

I heard yesterday that Rob Kearney is out of contract in the summer - is this correct?

Bad news about Hines, such an effective player. Be interesting to see if KMcL is deployed at 4 more often.

Spud83

Game is Saturday. I'm in Cardiff for the weekend so I hope to convince some friends to go to the game.

CouchSmart

trackguy wrote: »

I heard yesterday that Rob Kearney is out of contract in the summer - is this correct?

Bad news about Hines, such an effective player. Be interesting to see if KMcL is deployed at 4 more often.

Ye, Kearney's contract is up though as far as I'm aware he wants to stay. He'll probably be dealing with IRFU rather than Leinster. It's being left late though, perhaps there's something happening?

trackguy

CouchSmart wrote: »

Ye, Kearney's contract is up though as far as I'm aware he wants to stay. He'll probably be dealing with IRFU rather than Leinster. It's being left late though, perhaps there's something happening?

I didn't hear it myself but a friend told me he was on radio over the weekend and said something like 'yeah nothing signed, to be honest we're miles apart on the terms'

Doesn't sound promising. His form was poxy before the injury but he's a class act.

iamjenko

I reckon Kearney will find it very tough to get back into the Leinster XV with Isa playing the way he is and with LF improving with every outing he wont get much of a look in at national level either

CouchSmart

iamjenko wrote: »

I reckon Kearney will find it very tough to get back into the Leinster XV with Isa playing the way he is and with LF improving with every outing he wont get much of a look in at national level either

Form temporary, class permanent and all that lark. I never really understand all the Kearney hate on here, he's one of the best full backs around - hardly his fault that he's had to play under Gaffneys crappy counter attack systems for the past 2 years.

iamjenko

Ah i'm not Kearney-bashing or anything, i just think the other two seem to offer more from FB. His bragaining position for contract worth might not be as strong as it once would have been.

CouchSmart

Also on a more random note, Mike Ross was class yesterday. A possible candidate for MOTM. If we let him go I'll be devastated.

Let's steal Nagle or the young O'Callaghan from munster if Hines is gone...

We can offer them a lot and they're both worth a gamble IMO.

Maybe EOD might come good this year, imagine we'd poached Tuohy and not him from Ulster though...

TheHighRoad

Wasn't there rumours a while back that Leinster are after Ali Williams?

Sangre

I'm hoping Leinster show some faith in Toner and EOD. There is also KMcL potentially as well. With those three and Cullen we wouldn't be in too bad shape. Although I wouldn't be too bother if Leinster did seek to sign another second row.

TheHighRoad

Sangre wrote: »

I'm hoping Leinster show some faith in Toner and EOD. There is also KMcL potentially as well. With those three and Cullen we wouldn't be in too bad shape. Although I wouldn't be too bother if Leinster did seek to sign another second row.

Not overly sold on Toner. Better than Donnacha Ryan but can't see either making it.

CouchSmart

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Not overly sold on Toner. Better than Donnacha Ryan but can't see either making it.

Personally I'd like to see Leinster sign Don. Ryan. Himself and Toner compliment each other really well. Think he just signed a new contract at Munster though.

CouchSmart

Posted on LF that all but the starting Irish 15 will be released to the clubs for the weekend games.

funky penguin

Awesome, Cullen will be a great addition for the match.