Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

CouchSmart

danthefan wrote: »

Watching rugby.

To elaborate, he's 27, proved sweet **** all, got dropped after his single HEC start to date, his form has wildly fluctuated and one of the best teams in Europe should not be relying on him at all. If Hines goes it's time to whip out the chequebook.

He hasn't been given a chance at Munster who, as we all know, aren't renownd for promoting youth. Also, has POC and DOC in front of him.

He got dropped because himself and DOC aren't a good compliment, it wasn't based on his performance, more DOCs and his inability to run a lineout.

No consistent game time = no form.

I'm not saying we should be relying on him but between himself, EOD and McLoughlin/Sherrif we'd have great sufficient, IQ talent backing Toner and Cullen up.

RuggieBear

who would you like to sign and what sort of money?

imo, if we dont promote from within I would want a world class lock and not some sort of NIQ journeyman

danthefan

CouchSmart wrote: »

He hasn't been given a chance at Munster who, as we all know, aren't renownd for promoting youth. Also, has POC and DOC in front of him.

He got dropped because himself and DOC aren't a good compliment, it wasn't based on his performance, more DOCs and his inability to run a lineout.

No consistent game time = no form.

I'm not saying we should be relying on him but between himself, EOD and McLoughlin/Sherrif we'd have great sufficient, IQ talent backing Toner and Cullen up.

He has 76 Munster caps, 45 starts, which is a fair amount. Also keep in mind POC has missed a huge amount of rugby since around 2007, went AWOL after the RWC and just spent another 9 months out there or something.

EOD has not worked out at all for whatever reason, Sherriff might be great but he's done nothing yet. Don't fall into the trap of thinking IQs are good just for the sake of having IQs, EOD for example will never play for Ireland, in that respect you might as well have an NIQ.

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

Watching rugby.

To elaborate, he's 27, proved sweet **** all, got dropped after his single HEC start to date, his form has wildly fluctuated and one of the best teams in Europe should not be relying on him at all. If Hines goes it's time to whip out the chequebook.

Maybe Leinster need to look at developing more of their own locks. The checkbook is the short term option and not good for Irish rugby. Munster have been doing that for years and havn't brought a decent center through in years. I'm not being a smartass here but with all the schools in Leinster you'd think there'd be an abundance of quality locks like there is in Munster.

CouchSmart

RuggieBear wrote: »

who would you like to sign and what sort of money?

imo, if we dont promote from within I would want a world class lock and not some sort of NIQ journeyman

Brad Thorn would be the type of player I'd be looking for, though he's too old and all but confirmed to be going to France. If we do sign an NIQ, I expect them to be from NZ - I'm sure Schmidt and Gibbes knows a lot of the players over there.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

Maybe Leinster need to look at developing more of their own locks. The checkbook is the short term option and not good for Irish rugby. Munster have been doing that for years and havn't brought a decent center through in years. I'm not being a smartass here but with all the schools in Leinster you'd think there'd be an abundance of quality locks like there is in Munster.

Yeah I wonder why nobody has thought of this already.

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

He has 76 Munster caps, 45 starts, which is a fair amount. Also keep in mind POC has missed a huge amount of rugby since around 2007, went AWOL after the RWC and just spent another 9 months out there or something.

He was third choice Irish second row last season so the Irish coaches rate him. Its like saying McFadden and O'Malley are no good because they can't get ahead of BOD or D'Arcy.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking IQs are good just for the sake of having IQs, EOD for example will never play for Ireland, in that respect you might as well have an NIQ.

I agree with that. Lots of IQ players are not good enough to play international rugby and that leaves the international coaches with limited options.

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

Yeah I wonder why nobody has thought of this already.

Because its easier to get the chequebook out!

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

He was third choice Irish second row last season so the Irish coaches rate him. Its like saying McFadden and O'Malley are no good because they can't get ahead of BOD or D'Arcy.



I agree with that. Lots of IQ players are not good enough to play international rugby and that leaves the international coaches with limited options.

The Irish coaches thought Buckle and Hayes were their best 2 THs so I put no stock in that at all, and I don't even think it's true either. He might have made the AIs but Cullen was injured at that stage, Cullen was in for the 6N, made 2 starts if you remember. And to be perfectly honest your manlove for Ryan is very well documented at this stage.

phog

danthefan wrote: »

The Irish coaches thought Buckle and Hayes were their best 2 THs so I put no stock in that at all, and I don't even think it's true either. He might have made the AIs but Cullen was injured at that stage, Cullen was in for the 6N, made 2 starts if you remember. And to be perfectly honest your manlove for Ryan is very well documented at this stage.

..........and your manhate for him is just as well documented but isnt that the joy of a forum where people can express their views, it would be rather boring if everyone had to agree with each other.

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

The Irish coaches thought Buckle and Hayes were their best 2 THs so I put no stock in that at all, and I don't even think it's true either. He might have made the AIs but Cullen was injured at that stage, Cullen was in for the 6N, made 2 starts if you remember. And to be perfectly honest your manlove for Ryan is very well documented at this stage.

Its my opinion that hes a good player. Why, in your opinion is he not a good player?

jolley123

Personally I don't want Ryan. I've never seen anything of him to suggest he could be great. I'd like to see how the whole Kevin thing goes, if it goes well then himself and Cullen should be the starters with Toner on the bench. There are two promising players in Sheriff and Flanagan, Ruddock might improve as well. If it is necessary to use the chequebook I would have loved to get Tuohy but I think he re-signed. Maybe a SA, they usually have great locks.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

..........and your manhate for him is just as well documented but isnt that the joy of a forum where people can express their views, it would be rather boring if everyone had to agree with each other.

Hate is way too strong a word, I just think he's overrated and at his age he's gone way past "potential". He is what he is, an ML player.

As for the bolded bit, preaching to the choir, I assure you.

SomeFool

danthefan wrote: »

The Irish coaches thought Buckle and Hayes were their best 2 THs so I put no stock in that at all, and I don't even think it's true either. He might have made the AIs but Cullen was injured at that stage, Cullen was in for the 6N, made 2 starts if you remember. And to be perfectly honest your manlove for Ryan is very well documented at this stage.

It's Buckley, you may not like him or respect him as a player, thats fair enough but at least call him by his name.

Hype710

I wouldn't want Ryan either, he's not bad but he's not a patch on Hines and imo never will be. As previously stated a New Zealander could be lured, what about Isaac Ross? He showed a lot of promise a couple of years ago but has fallen out of favour since. I'm sure we could make something of him. I think he's only 22 or so.

danthefan

Hype710 wrote: »

I wouldn't want Ryan either, he's not bad but he's not a patch on Hines and imo never will be. As previously stated a New Zealander could be lured, what about Isaac Ross? He showed a lot of promise a couple of years ago but has fallen out of favour since. I'm sure we could make something of him. I think he's only 22 or so.

He's 26 I think, and I'd say he still has eyes on playing for NZ.

durkadurka

Is Isaac Ross some sort of hybrid scrum half/tighthead?

Hype710

danthefan wrote: »

He's 26 I think, and I'd say he still has eyes on playing for NZ.

Ah, got that one wrong so. Either way I think we'll end up signing someone NIQ.

jolley123

What about Anton Van Zyl, he's consistent for the Stormers and he's probably got another 2 or 3 years of rugby to play. I would think by then we would have produced a replacement. Anyone know about his contract.

tolosenc

Fill it up with academy and AIL players etc. and save the chequebook for one massive signing. Bowe is free at the end of next year, right? Trying to lure the likes of Israel Dagg would be cool too.

All very unlikely, I know. But there's a serious possibility we'll be recruiting over the summer as a team with 2 Heineken Cups in 3 years...

WeeBushy

With Hagan and Cronin signing for next season our squad is nicely balanced with great competition in all positions except 2nd row and OH.

Not much point in signing a top class OH imo as it'll just reduce sexy time and would be a waste of money. Madigan and McKinley have looked promising so I'd leave OH alone and take the risk of not having a big player to replace him were he to get injured.

With Hines leaving a top class 2nd row is needed to replace him. Ryan is a grand player but he's not in the same league as Hines and would just be another squad player. We need a like for like replacement. Bar Cullen we would have no good international class 2nd rows. Not good enough for a team that wants to dominate Europe imo.

Have no problem with it being NIQ as we have so few of them in our squad. Nacewa, Van der Merwe, Wright (one of whom may be leaving with the signing of Hagan) and Berne (who also may well be on the way out). I'm not including Strauss as he'll be IQ in a year or so. So potentially only 2 NIQ in the squad next season.

So lets splash big on a top class 2nd row who can help improve the likes of Sherrif and KMcL (like Rocky did for him previously) until they are ready to be front line 2nd rows in a season or two.

Ciaran-Irl

tolosenc wrote: »

Fill it up with academy and AIL players etc. and save the chequebook for one massive signing. Bowe is free at the end of next year, right? Trying to lure the likes of Israel Dagg would be cool too.

All very unlikely, I know. But there's a serious possibility we'll be recruiting over the summer as a team with 2 Heineken Cups in 3 years...

Bowe signed a new 3deal recently for starters, and they're more likely to sign me than Israel Dagg, or any top back three player for that matter.

RMD

Considering there's rumours of Nathan Hines in talks with Stade Francais I think we should be looking at getting in a very good second row if that does come to be true, possibly a southerner after the world cup.

David900

Why can't they sign a world class back three? Munster signed Howlett after the last world cup. I don't think Leinster really need one to be honest though.
A world class lock would be nice, I heard Bakkies Botha is open to negotiations

Edit: Bakkies being a world class lock is open to interruption

porterbelly

Bakkies Botha is a tinker. He'd be more trouble than he's worth with suspensions etc.

If you want an athletic, lineout option as well a good player around the field, Andreas Bekker from the Stormers is your man. He was sensational in the Super 15 last season, and he has everything.

jolley123

he's staying with the Stormers though till 2013

RMD

David900 wrote: »

Why can't they sign a world class back three? Munster signed Howlett after the last world cup. I don't think Leinster really need one to be honest though.
A world class lock would be nice, I heard Bakkies Botha is open to negotiations

Edit: Bakkies being a world class lock is open to interruption

We don't need a world class back 3. We already have a very good back 3 with the possibilities of Horgan, McFadden, Fitz, Nacewa, Kearney when he's in form and then there's some good players coming through, Conway is showing some serious potential.

I think we should be focusing on weaker areas, we have some good second rows but we need better second rows, we need starting international second rows. Cullen is 33 and Hines is 34, the second rows coming through aren't at the standard Leinster need, we're potentially going to win our 2nd Heineken cup in 3 seasons. We can attract big name players with those credentials, we should be looking for them.

jolley123

Brad Thorn would be a really good 1/2 year deal, Alun Wyn Jones' contract is up a the end of this year ad he's said he's open to offers.

tolosenc

Thorn is the wrong side of 35. Alun Wyn Jones would be good. A young lad that could be here for the long term.

TBH, #1 on my shopping list at lock would be Sam Whitelock, but that just ain't going to happen. Does Rocky want to come back and play 5? :P

jolley123

tolosenc wrote: »

Thorn is the wrong side of 35. Alun Wyn Jones would be good. A young lad that could be here for the long term.

TBH, #1 on my shopping list at lock would be Sam Whitelock, but that just ain't going to happen. Does Rocky want to come back and play 5? :P

True, but he's playing outstandingly and we'd only need him for at most 2 years. Jones is probably the better option though. I'd imagine he'd love to play for Leinster. I'm sure he wants the same Henieken cup glory that the Leinster guys are experiencing, sick of being on an Ospreys side that constistently under-perform.Plus he has a lot of respect for irish fans. In the Magners League final last year, he said that the Leinster fans know their rugby and that he had a lot of respect for us.