Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

molloyjh

Leinster are contracted into the RDS for another few years though aren't they? And we can't fill the RDS for some of the ML games. It wouldn't make any sense to move to Landsdowne in those cases as it'd be just like the Scarlets last night - a near empty looking ground.

CouchSmart

We have another 15 years left on our RDS contract, though we can buy out of it in 5 or 10 years. Considering attendances have been low enough this year I don't think expanding the capacity is in Leinster's favour, it's not particularly against it either but we have the Aviva for the big games and 10000 fans looks better in an 18000 seater rather than a 25000 one. A bit of modernisation would be welcomed though and perhaps some sort of roofing over the North and South stand although I don't know how that would work as they're only temporary stands..

tolosenc

CouchSmart wrote: »

A bit of modernisation would be welcomed though and perhaps some sort of roofing over the North and South stand although I don't know how that would work as they're only temporary stands..

They're the same construction as the Grandstand, so I don't imagine it'd be much different

Ciaran-Irl

tolosenc wrote: »

They're the same construction as the Grandstand, so I don't imagine it'd be much different

They have to be able to remove them for the horse show. Logistically difficult.

danthefan

durkadurka wrote: »

Yeah with lansdowne just down the road it would seem pretty wasteful to go nuts redeveloping rds.

Eh? The RDS will develop the RDS, not Leinster.

durkadurka

If course. The point is that there isn't a Market for two large stadiums so close together, one medium and one large is appropriate

irishbucsfan

durkadurka wrote: »

If course. The point is that there isn't a Market for two large stadiums so close together, one medium and one large is appropriate

I think it's more the standard of facilities the redevelopment is looking to improve. Plus, the RDS would still be more profitable at 25k considering H Cup matches will sell out there.

[Jackass]

danthefan wrote: »

Eh? The RDS will develop the RDS, not Leinster.

Well, I don't think it would be as simple as that. The ground is mainly used for Leinster rugby and I'd imagine any redevelopment would be a joint veture.

i.e. RDS have Leinster signed on long-term lease, and are well aware that Leinster have no where else to go in the medium term, and both parties would like to develop and modernise the ground, so I'm sure it would be done as a joint venture, as they both want it done, but it doesn't make sense for either of them to commit to it on their own.

While RDS would foot most of the bill, I'm sure Leinster would have to contribute a good chunk, like 25%, and probably have to sign up to a 15 / 20 year new lease with no breakout clause and 14 games per season. (with only knock out Heineken Cup games in Aviva). But that's all just speculation, but you can be sure there would be a lot of negotiation about the terms of any redevelopment of the ground and it would be a joint venture.

If Leinster did contribute, I'd like to see them also gain some level of ownership. such as 25% stake in the ground, which would also mean 25% off cost of lease and 25% income to Leinster from concerts and other events, such as horse show.

danthefan

[Jackass] wrote: »

Well, I don't think it would be as simple as that. The ground is mainly used for Leinster rugby and I'd imagine any redevelopment would be a joint veture.

i.e. RDS have Leinster signed on long-term lease, and are well aware that Leinster have no where else to go in the medium term, and both parties would like to develop and modernise the ground, so I'm sure it would be done as a joint venture, as they both want it done, but it doesn't make sense for either of them to commit to it on their own.

While RDS would foot most of the bill, I'm sure Leinster would have to contribute a good chunk, like 25%, and probably have to sign up to a 15 / 20 year new lease with no breakout clause and 14 games per season. (with only knock out Heineken Cup games in Aviva). But that's all just speculation, but you can be sure there would be a lot of negotiation about the terms of any redevelopment of the ground and it would be a joint venture.

If Leinster did contribute, I'd like to see them also gain some level of ownership. such as 25% stake in the ground, which would also mean 25% off cost of lease and 25% income to Leinster from concerts and other events, such as horse show.

As you say, complete speculation and the terms you've named there are pretty daft imo. If the RDS told Leinster they'd redevelop on the bolded terms Leinster would tell them to take a running jump. As for Leinster taking some ownership of the RDS, you really haven't thought that out very well have you?

durkadurka

I doubt it, it's a landlord and tenant arrangement from what I can see

RMD

Only changes I'd like to see to the RDS is roofing on the North + South stand and a proper speaker system put in, can't here half the stuff they're saying normally. Size wise it's fine to be honest, as said we have the Aviva for the big games.

roycon

i think its a great stadium.a bit quirky compared to the normal english or welsh medium sized stadiums. the best stadium is baths where they have the high glass fronted boxes and balconies on one side of the terrace

roycon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bath_rec.jpg

danthefan

A lot of English grounds have those. The Rec is only 10k capacity, also has temporary stands, and I think they're not allowed expand it.

Taco Corp

I don't understand how they can get away with with having temporary seating for so long. A couple of seats in Grandstand fell through (block L I think) at a game not so long ago. Thankfully they were near the front so not much of a drop. Development of the RDS is badly needed. Leinster need a stadium the same size (or bigger) of Thomond Park.

[Jackass]

danthefan wrote: »

As you say, complete speculation and the terms you've named there are pretty daft imo. If the RDS told Leinster they'd redevelop on the bolded terms Leinster would tell them to take a running jump. As for Leinster taking some ownership of the RDS, you really haven't thought that out very well have you?

:rolleyes:

Well, you kind of answered your own point there really...

The reason I mentioned an ownership arrangement was because Leinster would tell them to "take a running jump" if they asked Leinster to foot some of the bill..

My point was that it's not really in either parties interest to redevelop it unless it was a joint venture, and Leinster would have to get more than just increased gates for it to be worth their while...

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

My point was that it's not really in either parties interest to redevelop it unless it was a joint venture, and Leinster would have to get more than just increased gates for it to be worth their while...

It's not really in Leinster's interests to own 25% of the RDS either. If they RDS is redeveloped it will be by the RDS alone. The stand that needs the most work is the Anglesea stand anyway and that's used for the horse show.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not really in Leinster's interests to own 25% of the RDS either. If they RDS is redeveloped it will be by the RDS alone. The stand that needs the most work is the Anglesea stand anyway and that's used for the horse show.

The only joint venture would be when the RDS shows up and LRs headquarters and tells LR that they will expand if LR removes the 10 year break clause and pays 5 years rent in advance. At least thats how I see it.

Podge_irl

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The only joint venture would be when the RDS shows up and LRs headquarters and tells LR that they will expand if LR removes the 10 year break clause and pays 5 years rent in advance. At least thats how I see it.

At which Mike Dawson would tell them to go shove it up their arse.

Leinster aren't going to change their contract with the RDS. If the place is developed it will be because the RDS want to develop it.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Podge_irl wrote: »

At which Mike Dawson would tell them to go shove it up their arse.

Leinster aren't going to change their contract with the RDS. If the place is developed it will be because the RDS want to develop it.

I doubt the RDS would want to develop it unless it added something with the main tennants

danthefan

[Jackass] wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Well, you kind of answered your own point there really...

The reason I mentioned an ownership arrangement was because Leinster would tell them to "take a running jump" if they asked Leinster to foot some of the bill..

My point was that it's not really in either parties interest to redevelop it unless it was a joint venture, and Leinster would have to get more than just increased gates for it to be worth their while...

How in the name of jebus do you know that? There's been talk of redeveloping the Anglesea long before Leinster moved into the RDS.

[Jackass]

Wow Daniel, you're not one for letting anything go.

Well, they did nothing with the RDS for 100+ years, then Leinster proposed using the ground, so temporary seating was put in, then Leinster signed a lease and perminant roofing was put over the grandstand, a new pitch surface was put in, floodlights installed and expansion of the north and south stands.

This was a joint venture by the way. RDS did not foot the entire bill for this.

Now, Leinster have a lease they can opt out of in 3 seasons or so (if they so wish), and god forbid things at the IRFU & Leinster branch got so tight that they needed to move back to Donnybrook, or things get so good that they get money and permission to develop Donnybrook, or they go to play in the Aviva, or whatever, do you think the RDS will want to be left with their thumb up their ass with a shiny new Angelsea stand and no one to visit it other than a few horses and a couple of concerts a year?

I doubt it. And I doubt the RDS would or will ever touch the Angelsea without perminant residents signed up to use it. So unless, at very least, the lease was renegotiated with no opt out clause for Leinster, I doubt the RDS would be stupid enough to commit to such a massive project on their own and be left so vunrable to bankrupcy.

Leinster are not only the main source of income for the RDS, but we are also the biggest show in town. Nothing else in this city, or this country, sells about 250,000 tickets to an event over the course of a year but Leinster. (including Aviva) - without Leinster, the RDS is nothing, and without Leinster, there is very little point on redeveloping the Angelsea stand, and even less money there to do it.

I think I read a couple of years ago that the RDS were running at a substantial loss until Leinster signed a lease on RDS, and the 6 nations signed a lease on a building accross the street and I think (but open to correction) the Lions signed a lease on offices in the RDS too, and even then, they ran at a profit of only 1 million or so. That kind of budget isn't going to build you a new stand.

As I said, neither will do it unless it's a joint venture or brand new terms are banged out between the two - for RDS, they need the guarenteed income from Leinster, for Leinster they would need some sort of ownership to reflect the investment.

danthefan

You say right at the start of your post that the RDS has been around for 100 years then say without Leinster the RDS is nothing. You're really not making any sense. The RDS was around long before Leinster and it'll be around long after Leinster go.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/green-light-for-100m-rds-facelift-154699.html

And here's a link from 2004 in which redeveloping the Anglesea stand is mentioned, long before Leinster moved in.


Basically, stop making stuff up.

tolosenc

Lads, hypothetical situation and all that...

[Jackass]

danthefan wrote: »

You say right at the start of your post that the RDS has been around for 100 years then say without Leinster the RDS is nothing. You're really not making any sense. The RDS was around long before Leinster and it'll be around long after Leinster go.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/green-light-for-100m-rds-facelift-154699.html

And here's a link from 2004 in which redeveloping the Anglesea stand is mentioned, long before Leinster moved in.


Basically, stop making stuff up.

Don't look in the mirror Daniel for danger of arguing with your own reflection... :rolleyes:

The development you linked WAS done, and the Grandstand was built AS A RESULT of Leinster moving in INSTEAD of the Angelsea and Leinster contributed to the revamp, and the deal was done between Leinster and RDS in 2004 to give the RDS a trial run and Leinster played their first game there in 2005 (http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/match_centre.php?section=overview&fixid=5094), hardly "long before" so basically, stop arguing for the sake of it and go out and have a pint.

As for the RDS, the "nothing" comment is in reference to how heavily they depend on Leinsters use of the RDS arena for income...I wont be pedantic though and search out the article...

Can we have a discussion about the stadium without getting dragged into tedious, pointless spatters.

W.B. Yeats

[Jackass] wrote: »

Nothing else in this city, or this country, sells about 250,000 tickets to an event over the course of a year but Leinster. (including Aviva) -

I'd say the Dubs would question that- think they had somewhere 35-40,000 last night in Croker, they'll easily replicate that 5 more times this year
There are 3 more of these "spring series" league games where they are doing major promotion on, add to that Leinster Final, AIQF, Leinster Semi, Leinster QF

[Jackass]

Fair point, depending on how well they do, they probably would. But at least they're all sewn up when it comes to match venues.

padser

[Jackass] wrote: »

Nothing else in this city, or this country, sells about 250,000 tickets to an event over the course of a year but Leinster.

1) Ireland in Croke Park, 3 6N, 3 AI's. 80k times 6 is 480k (you could even split these into two event's and they would be almost same as Leinster)

2) Irish soccer internationals over the course of a year (80k x 4 or 5???)

3) Horse racing meetings (I'm guessing over the year would add up to 250k.

durkadurka

4500 Leinster Leicester tickets released tomorrow morning, season ticket holders get first dibs again. These are the sendbacks from Leicester.

Podge_irl

padser wrote: »

1) Ireland in Croke Park, 3 6N, 3 AI's. 80k times 6 is 480k (you could even split these into two event's and they would be almost same as Leinster)

2) Irish soccer internationals over the course of a year (80k x 4 or 5???)

Neither of those use CP anymore so somewhat irrelevant.

I'd be almost sure Munster sell more tickets over the course of a year too now they have TP.

The RDS have wanted to redevelop the Anglesea stand for eons.