Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

CatFromHue

im fairly sure kearney went to 15 and luke fitz stayed on the wing last night.

tolosenc

Yeah, he seemed to me to be at FB.

funky penguin

Open training session tomorrow at the RDS

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/7939.php

Training from 10.30-11.30, then autograph signing til 12. Everyone welcome, admission free.

Morf

Is it access from the Simmonscourt Road?

funky penguin

Not hot on my RDS gate names, but thats the Wylie gate isn't it? Says that's where access is alright, from 10.25am.

durkadurka

More tickets tomorrow at 11

funky penguin

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0419/1224294979059.html

GT bigging up Toulouse. I love these articles, makes me want Leinster to kick their arses even more.

ERRY THORNLEY

ON RUGBY: AS LEINSTER discovered in their 14-year quest for the mountain top, which was reached with back-to-back wins over Euro giants Munster and Leicester, and then having run into Clermont and Toulouse last season, nothing comes easy in the Heineken Cup. And so it is again.

Having put away the current leading side in England, two-time winners and five-time finalists Leicester, in the quarter-finals, Joe Schmidt’s squad must now overcome the leading side in France in four-time Heineken Cup winners and six-time finalists Toulouse.

Stade Toulousain are, quite simply, the most decorated club in the world, and that includes provincial powers. The Canterbury Crusaders may be the Super force of the Southern Hemisphere, but they are primarily a 21st century phenomenon. Toulouse have been a phenomenon, pretty much, since 1985.

That was the year former players and French legends Pierre Villepreux and Jean-Claude Skrela took over the club and transformed its ethos, with an emphasis on developing its academy production line – incorporating education as well as rugby – and a certain style of play. But it was when another former player, Guy Noves, returned as coach in 1993 – having walked out on a point of principle in 1989 – in tandem with club president René Bouscatel that the club took off.

They have won 10 of their unequalled 17 French titles since 1985 (and lost four finals), and seven have been since 1993, in addition to their four European crowns.

So, if Leinster couldn’t have had tougher visitors for the quarter-finals, then the same is true of Toulouse at the semi-final stages: the farther they go in competitions, the better they become. They have won six of their nine European semi-finals, including their last five.

The French club game has become the equivalent of the English Premier League in football. There were crowds of 65,000 in Stade de France and 60,000 in the Stade Velodrome for Saturday’s Top 14 games between Stade Francais and Clermont, and Toulon and Toulouse, and there was even 30,000 at Lyon for their local, top-of-the-table derby with Oyannaux.

The Top 14 is awash with money. Matt Giteau, Bakkies Botha, Sébastien Tillous-Borde and Alexis Palisson have already been signed up by Toulon, with Mathieu Bastareaud linked with a move there, and there are reports of Dan Carter and Sonny Bill Williams heading the extraordinary post-World Cup exodus to France by joining Racing Metro and Toulon for salaries well in excess of €1 million per year.

Toulouse are no paupers, with their budget estimated to be close on €30 million, though it certainly seems the comparatively nouveau riche of Racing, Toulon, Clermont and new big-spenders on the block Bayonne spend bigger. Toulouse are set to lose Byron Kelleher, David Skrela and Frederic Michalak, but have lined up Lionel Beauxis from Stade Francais and, apparently, either or both of Luke Burgess and Mike Phillips.

Winning matches and winning trophies is simply in their DNA. Others come and go but Toulouse, ever-present in the semi-finals since the Top 14 play-offs were introduced, are always there or thereabouts. And there Toulouse sit again for the last few months, still the pacesetters.

Schmidt and his coaching staff probably had already begun their research on Toulouse before parking it this week to ready themselves for their trek to Aironi on Saturday. There was a period last October when Toulouse scored 157 points in four matches, including a stunning 38-29 win over Perpignan, but for the most part they have done just enough, winning all 14 games at home in league and Europe, and picking up four wins, a draw and sufficient bonus points to stay ahead of the posse.

Their squad strength is ridiculous, but above all they are a smart team, full of smart players. Leinster need only to reflect on the typical intelligence Toulouse brought to the semi-final last season. Aside from steamrollering the Leinster scrum, for the killer second-half try Yannick Jauzion attacked up the middle from off-the-top lineout ball on the left, but was then a decoy as Skrela found Florian Fritz with a skip pass which launched Clemont Poitrenaud and Vincent Clerc in the wider channels.

While their offloading game remains, they are also a team of all seasons and conditions. They can bring anything to the party, be it a tight, set-piece game for mid-winter or a high-tempo, running and offloading game on a dry track. They are, as one French writer puts them, a chameleon team. In Maxime Medard they have the Top 14’s supreme finisher on 13 tries, three clear of his nearest challenger Julien Malzieu of Clermont.

They sit four points clear of Racing, who lie second just seven points ahead of ninth-placed Bayonne, with all of those sides bar Perpignan sharing the same number of wins, 14 apiece, and facing a titanic struggle for two semi-final and top-six play-off places.

By contrast, having completed their away programme, Noves has more wriggle room than at a similar stage last season. He could afford to make a dozen changes from the starting team employed in the dramatic Heineken Cup quarter-final extra-time win away to Biarritz for last Saturday’s 21-9 defeat to Toulon. A bonus point win at home to Bourgoin – broke, bottom of the table and long since relegated – next Saturday will assure them of a semi-final place, thereby rendering their final home game against Clermont academic and leaving them free to focus fully on Leinster, as their domestic semi-final is not until a week after the Heineken Cup final in Cardiff.

The likelihood is that Kelleher (sidelined since December with a calf problem), Michalak (he picked up an ankle injury in the win away to Perpignan three weeks ago which may also have ended his season) and Thierry Dusautoir (though running again lightly) will all miss Dublin, but they still have the home-grown Nicolas Bezy and Jean-Marck Dussain (a possible French half-back pairing of the future) as well as Skrela.

They may be a tad long in the tooth, there are question marks around the hunger levels of such a sated squad, but this is the time of the season when they get a whiff of silverware in their nostrils and, thus, when they come into their own.

The money being thrown around in France is crazy (in rugby terms). Some of them should take a leaf out of Toulouse and Leinster's books: Get a decent academy going, nurture the (considerable) local talent and foster a more cohesieve team spirit.

Look at McFadden, who reportedly turned down offers from Leicster amoung other teams. He WANTS to play for Leinster, and is a home-grown (excellent) talent.

I suppose you could also argue Hines wasn't brought up through the academy, but wanted to stay with Leinster. You could maybe argue of course that he bought into the team spirit already evident in Leinster.

Probably case by case, but it's getting a little ridiculous. Post World Cup will be ridiculous with the South travelling up here.

Amazotheamazing

funky penguin wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0419/1224294979059.html

GT bigging up Toulouse. I love these articles, makes me want Leinster to kick their arses even more.




The money being thrown around in France is crazy (in rugby terms). Some of them should take a leaf out of Toulouse and Leinster's books: Get a decent academy going, nurture the (considerable) local talent and foster a more cohesieve team spirit.

Look at McFadden, who reportedly turned down offers from Leicster amoung other teams. He WANTS to play for Leinster, and is a home-grown (excellent) talent.

I suppose you could also argue Hines wasn't brought up through the academy, but wanted to stay with Leinster. You could maybe argue of course that he bought into the team spirit already evident in Leinster.

Probably case by case, but it's getting a little ridiculous. Post World Cup will be ridiculous with the South travelling up here.

What part of the article do you disagree with?

Toulouse are the benchmark for any rugby club. They might buy in players but they also produce quite a few. Would be interesting to see who has the most home grown squads of the top teams in Europe, I'd suspect it'd be between Leinster, Leicester and Toulouse, despite the big money in France.

Let's not pretend Leinster are all homegrown either. Of the 42 players listed on the profiles section of leinsterrugby.ie 17 are from outside Leinster. Most, admittedly, are squad players, and a few are leaving/have left during the season but still that's 40% of the squad that have been bought in.

Don't take this as some massive criticism, it's still massively impressive to have 60% of your squad as homegrown.

Podge_irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Would be interesting to see who has the most home grown squads of the top teams in Europe, I'd suspect it'd be between Leinster, Leicester and Toulouse, despite the big money in France

Says something for the benefits of home grown squads.

funky penguin

I don't disagree with any of it, it just makes me want to Leinster to beat the best.

I think Toulouse are an excellent example for club rugby. Fantastic team ethos, with a winninig mentality and excellent academy. Without a doubt the best NH club.

And yes, you're right, Leinster are far from the posterboys for home-grown talent (some of their most key players are foriegn), but they're certainly on the right track. 4-8 more years and their current 'break-through' young guns will populate most of the 1st 15. Well......HOPEfully anyway.

Amazotheamazing

Podge_irl wrote: »

Says something for the benefits of home grown squads.

Oddly Munster's is 11/45, for some reason i thought we'd way more imports than that.

Yeah, the goal has to be to have as many homegrown players as possible, and then as many Irish qualified as possible and then as high a quality import as possible.

I've no idea of Leicester's number but I do love this possible urban myth about Leicester. A few years back the Chairman of the club was talking to coach. The coach expected praise, they were top of the league and in Europe or somesuch so he was taken aback when the Chairman said he wasn't happy. "Too many foreigners in the squad", the coach replies "but 13 of the starting 15 can play for England". The Chairman looks at him aghast and says "I meant too many non-Leicester players in the squad".

I'd love to know if it's a true story, but deep down I want to believe it regardless.

Podge_irl

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Oddly Munster's is 11/45, for some reason i thought we'd way more imports than that.

Part of it may be just down to the slightly larger squad rotation in Leinster, part of it may just be unfair perception.

To be honest, Leinster are fairly reliant on Ross and Reddan/Boss of their Irish imports, and Nacewa remains out most important player.

Amazotheamazing

For completeness sake, Ulster have 11/35 and Connacht have 27/38. I could be mistaken on those figures though.

[Jackass]

Leinster Squad 2011/12

Props: Healy, Van Der Merwe, McGrath, Hagan, Ross

Hooker: Harris-Wright, Cronin, Strauss

Locks: Sykes, Cullen, Toner, O'Donoghue, Sheriff

Backrow: McLoughlin, O'Brien, Heaslip, Jennings, Dom Ryan, Rhys Ruddock, Paul Ryan

Scrumhalf: Reddan, Boss, O'Donohoe

Outhalf: Sexton, McKinley, Madigan, Berquist

Centres: D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, McFadden, O'Malley, Macken, Sheridan

Back-Three: Nacewa, R. Kearney, Fitzgerald, Horgan, D. Kearney, Conway, Carr

10 out of 40 are not Leinster by birth (2 NIQ and 3 project players). (Ruddocks was born in Dublin and spent early life here and came back to Leinster as a school boy, so counting him as Leinster) There may be some academy promotions too, perhaps at tight-head and second-row, terrible shame Maguire is off, but perhaps O'Connell and Ruddock snr.

On a side note, it's some squad. Sadly, I've a feeling McKinley will be off during the summer, and he's more promising than Madigan, and it's frustraiting we can't get a homegrown second choice 10 with Keatley, then Tonetti, and now McKinley probably off, and left with Madigan, who the jury is still out on. 10 is one of the toughest positions to develop a top level player, so it's annoying when the most gifted are sent packing when it just takes patience and game time to develop them.

totallegend

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Toulouse are the benchmark for any rugby club. They might buy in players but they also produce quite a few. Would be interesting to see who has the most home grown squads of the top teams in Europe, I'd suspect it'd be between Leinster, Leicester and Toulouse, despite the big money in France.

I dunno, Toulouse churn out a lot of players alright but they're heavily dependent on buying talent from within France as well. For example, Heymans, Clerc, Fritz, Skrela, Dusautoir, Picamoles, Nyanga and probably a lot more besides were brought in from other French sides. Strip them out, take away the foreign imports and what are you left with?

GerM

Toulouse and their amazing academy is a myth. If you're looking for a top academy over the recent years in France look at Bourgoin. They've produced a glut of French internationals and top players, none of which remained there when the big clubs came calling. Fritz, Yann David, Bonnaire, Chabal, Parra, Nallet, Papé are all started their pro careers there.

If you go through the Toulouse squad you'll find very few of them came through the ranks. Toulouse are experts at identifying young talent at other clubs in the south of France and convincing them to join. Players like Lecouls and Jauzion who are part of the furniture there were snapped up from other clubs. I think it's only about 9 players out of their current senior squad of approximately 35 are their own products compared to about 25 of 40 in Leinster.

almighty1

durkadurka wrote: »

More tickets tomorrow at 11

For Toulouse game? Nothing yet on ticketmaster.

Edit : Nevermind I got deadly seats in BLK123.

durkadurka

There now

jolley123

[Jackass] wrote: »

On a side note, it's some squad. Sadly, I've a feeling McKinley will be off during the summer, and he's more promising than Madigan, and it's frustraiting we can't get a homegrown second choice 10 with Keatley, then Tonetti, and now McKinley probably off, and left with Madigan, who the jury is still out on. 10 is one of the toughest positions to develop a top level player, so it's annoying when the most gifted are sent packing when it just takes patience and game time to develop them.

McKinley is staying. McKinley has moved up from the Academy after being offered a development contract.

Next season Sexton will be playing very very few Magners games, i.e. he will only play a Magners game in preparation of a Heineken. So it's up to Madigan (who has also accepted a development contract) or McKinley to own that Magners 10 slot.

dave13

jolley123 wrote: »

McKinley is staying. McKinley has moved up from the Academy after being offered a development contract.

Next season Sexton will be playing very very few Magners games, i.e. he will only play a Magners game in preparation of a Heineken. So it's up to Madigan (who has also accepted a development contract) or McKinley to own that Magners 10 slot.

Not when they've also signed Matt Berquist to be Sextons backup, might not be a whole load of gametime for them. They got a lot this season due to Berne being injured

durkadurka

Isn't the new kiwi going to be in that slot? Berquist or something ?

jolley123

Apparently Berquist is going to be used as a utility back much in the same way Shaune Berne was. I'm sure he'll play several games at 10, but it would seem that the priority is to develop McKinley/Madigan.

profitius

Toulouse poach players from all over France so the great academy is a bit of a myth.

They are a very well run club however and very similar to the Irish provinces. They run the club as a family club and expect everybody to take pride in the jersey. They put the club before individuals. They see the value of bringing through young players instead of signing loads of foreigners.

Also, they're expert business people. They always took the HEC more seriously than any other French team because no matter what the French think its a bigger competition than the TOP 14 and with winning the HEC comes alot of prestige which further boosts the profile of the club.

[Jackass]

jolley123 wrote: »

Apparently Berquist is going to be used as a utility back much in the same way Shaune Berne was. I'm sure he'll play several games at 10, but it would seem that the priority is to develop McKinley/Madigan.

I hope that's the case, as my fear has been with his signing, paired with the fact that McKinley seems to have disapeared off the scene, despite, imo, playing better than Madigan and seeming to have gotten ahead of Madigan in the pecking order, that he may be out in the wilderness similar to Morris, because he's leaving.

It'll be tough to juggle 4 out-halves in the squad, even in a world cup year, and if McKinley and Madigan are going to be entrusted with the Magners League, then you'd wonder why Berquist was even signed...I presume he'll be second choice at Heineken cup time, and will therefore need game time ahead of Heineken Cup, and then we're reserving certain games for our 3rd and 4th choice to battle it out?

Seems like a strange situation to have. I hope McKinley stays though and cn nudge back in front of Madigan. (who is a very decent player too, I just think McKinley has more potential).

profitius

[Jackass] wrote: »

I hope that's the case, as my fear has been with his signing, paired with the fact that McKinley seems to have disapeared off the scene, despite, imo, playing better than Madigan and seeming to have gotten ahead of Madigan in the pecking order, that he may be out in the wilderness similar to Morris, because he's leaving.

It'll be tough to juggle 4 out-halves in the squad, even in a world cup year, and if McKinley and Madigan are going to be entrusted with the Magners League, then you'd wonder why Berquist was even signed...I presume he'll be second choice at Heineken cup time, and will therefore need game time ahead of Heineken Cup, and then we're reserving certain games for our 3rd and 4th choice to battle it out?

Seems like a strange situation to have. I hope McKinley stays though and cn nudge back in front of Madigan. (who is a very decent player too, I just think McKinley has more potential).

McKinley or Madigan might be off to Connacht? It would be best for everybody for they went to Connacht for a few seasons. Players need games to learn and McKinley in particular looks to be a talented player who would be good for Connacht.

jolley123

Well it's a guarantee that McKinley is not off to Connacht and seeing as Madigan was offered a similar contract and took it, I would think it's safe to assume he's staying.

In regards to Madigan looking ahead of the pecking order. I think there are a few things that have played a part in the amount of game-time he has had.

1.McKinley is getting more game-time with Marys than he is say if he were to come off the bench with 10 or so mins left in the odd Magners game.

2.While McKinley was in his recovery stages, Leinster gave game-time to Madigan and I think they just want to show him loyalty by not knocking him off as soon as McKinley became fit.

I think after next season we'll see a case where either Madigan or McKinley will be looking to go elsewhere. Personally I think it will be Madigan. Schmidt will probably give both Ians a good few runs in the first half of the Magners while rotating them with Berquist. Then, once the latter end of the season arrives I think he'll go with whichever Ian has shown better.

Seeing as Sexton will be playing minimal Magners games, I assume Berquist is there to ensure that Schmidt doesn't have to put out two in-experienced fly-halfs.

thomond2006

Connacht have 3 flyhalves on their books next season, don't think there is space for Madigan/McKinley to go there and get regular games at 10.

[Jackass]

I was thinking one of them was actually going to head north, with O'Connor off to Connacht, and these lads, particularly, looking the genuine article, and particularly with Humphries top dog at Ulster, he's done well this season, but is definitely playing in an area where Ulster can improve to another level.

On a side note, reported in the sindo that Carr has signed a two year deal, as apposed to one. Hope this is the case, the deal is expected to be confirmed soon, but is done.

CouchSmart

[Jackass] wrote: »

Leinster Squad 2011/12

Props: Healy, Van Der Merwe, McGrath, Hagan, Ross

Hooker: Harris-Wright, Cronin, Strauss

Locks: Sykes, Cullen, Toner, O'Donoghue, Sheriff

Backrow: McLoughlin, O'Brien, Heaslip, Jennings, Dom Ryan, Rhys Ruddock, Paul Ryan

Scrumhalf: Reddan, Boss, O'Donohoe

Outhalf: Sexton, McKinley, Madigan, Berquist

Centres: D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, McFadden, O'Malley, Macken, Sheridan

Back-Three: Nacewa, R. Kearney, Fitzgerald, Horgan, D. Kearney, Conway, Carr

I think that's pretty close to what our squad will be. Maybe a couple more short term deals for the WC but the 30 man HEC squad won't include anyone outside that list surely. Their might be a question mark over the future of Sheridan and P. Ryan, perhaps? Also Browne signing is left out.

1. Healy or Heinke
2. Strauss or Cronin
3. Ross or Hagan
4. Cullen or Toner
5. Sykes or O'Donohue(Browne?)
6. O'Brien or McLoughlin
7. Jennings or D. Ryan
8. Heaslip or Ruddock
9. Reddan or Boss
10. Sexton or Berquist
11. Fitz or D. Kearney
12. D'Arcy or McFadden
13. O'Driscoll or O'Malley
14. Horgan or Carr
15. Nacewa or R. Kearney

Those are two seriously strong teams, the only weakness is perhaps second row and maybe tight head but Hagan has looked good. It's also leaving out players like McGrath, Conway, Macken etc who are coming along quite nicely and all have big futures IMO.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CouchSmart wrote: »

I think that's pretty close to what our squad will be. Maybe a couple more short term deals for the WC but the 30 man HEC squad won't include anyone outside that list surely. Their might be a question mark over the future of Sheridan and P. Ryan, perhaps? Also Browne signing is left out.

Its a 38 man squad for the HEC

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/heinekencup/rules/index.php