Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Jemo

Shaggy is a definitive 14 (nowadays), Trimble a strong 11 who can play in the centre at a push. Neither is ever picked on the far wing so they aren't really vying for the same position although I think they could make a nice partnership. Shaggy deserves to start for Ireland, he shores up our offensive restarts which is one of our greatest weaknesses and is a great option with serious gas and a proven finisher. Bowe is a hard man to dislodge though and adds serious dynamism to our backline and has an eye for the tryline too. Its unfortunate they are both 14's. Shaggy will suffer because he cannot cover other positions (barring a longshot at centre) whereas Earls, Fitz, Kearney, Trimble and Duffy all have a lot of versatility.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Jemo wrote: »

Shaggy is a definitive 14 (nowadays), Trimble a strong 11 who can play in the centre at a push. Neither is ever picked on the far wing so they aren't really vying for the same position although I think they could make a nice partnership. Shaggy deserves to start for Ireland, he shores up our offensive restarts which is one of our greatest weaknesses and is a great option with serious gas and a proven finisher. Bowe is a hard man to dislodge though and adds serious dynamism to our backline and has an eye for the tryline too. Its unfortunate they are both 14's. Shaggy will suffer because he cannot cover other positions (barring a longshot at centre) whereas Earls, Fitz, Kearney, Trimble and Duffy all have a lot of versatility.

Could you explain to me the differences between 11 and 14, its always confused me somewhat.

GerM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Could you explain to me the differences between 11 and 14, its always confused me somewhat.

11 is your left winger. As most players are right handed they tend to get quicker ball in space from slicker passing. The 11 is often the smaller, more nippy player and more of the poacher type. 14 is the right winger and is more likely to receive ball a second slower and in less space. He's likely to be a bigger, more physical player as he could require more power to get through a defender. With that said, they're isn't a massive amount of difference as a lot of modern wingers tend to be fast and powerful. The other main reason is kicking. An 11 is often left footed. Fitzgerald, Kearney, Shane Williams, Hickie, all left footed. If you have 2 wingers and 1 is left footed he'll more than likely be the left winger.

Jemo

Ger somes it up pretty well, its also why 11's tend to score more tries, even some of the greats such as D'Arcy and O'Driscoll can't pass perfectly off both hands. Its quite important in defense for kicking and in general if a player sticks to one position for a long time his positioning and awareness could be muted when switching to the far wing. He could slot in there but I don't think he has ever been picked on the left for Leinster in the last 5-6 years although admittedly we have had excellent options at 11. Could be a gamble but it could pay off.

GerM

Pope's team for the future as per RTE's highlights show on Saturday night:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. McGrath
4. McLaughlin
5. Toner
6. SOB
7. Ryan/Gilsenan
8. Heaslip
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. EOM
14. Conway
15. Kearney

Team was selected on the basis that it would be a team in 2014 and an entirely Irish team. Interesting that he selected Gilsenan and McGrath in there given they're still in school. As we all know already, the only place we look quite light for the future is at lock. That partnership would not inspire confidence in me.

WeeBushy

GerM wrote: »

Pope's team for the future as per RTE's highlights show on Saturday night:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. McGrath
4. McLaughlin
5. Toner
6. SOB
7. Ryan/Gilsenan
8. Heaslip
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. EOM
14. Conway
15. Kearney

Team was selected on the basis that it would be a team in 2014 and an entirely Irish team. Interesting that he selected Gilsenan and McGrath in there given they're still in school. As we all know already, the only place we look quite light for the future is at lock. That partnership would not inspire confidence in me.

Did he say why Ruddock isn't in the team?

ambid

WeeBushy wrote: »

Did he say why Ruddock isn't in the team?

You're expecting logical thinking from Hook?

Really?

pajunior

WeeBushy wrote: »

Did he say why Ruddock isn't in the team?

He didn't but I imagine he doesn't see him as a 7.

Being an old school back-rower Popey loves his out and out 7's

Risteard

WeeBushy wrote: »

Did he say why Ruddock isn't in the team?

I'd assume it's because Ruddock is a 6/8 not a 7. And SOB and Heaslip seem to have those positions sewn up. The other possibility is SOB at 7 and Ruddock at 6, but tbh, I found Ryan to be the better of the two this season with some very impressive performances.

Ruddock has been immense off the bench quite a few times this season, he covers 6 and 8 excellently.

Sick depth tbh, keeping them all happy and involved will be a serious ask.

GerM

WeeBushy wrote: »

Did he say why Ruddock isn't in the team?

Didn't give a reason but I'm assuming that he doesn't see him being a better than option than Heaslip or SOB which is hard to debate. He did mention him though whilst discussing the side saying he's another that could be in there.

You could conceivably put together an alternate team that wouldn't be too bad either. Age in 2014 in brackets.

1. O'Connell (24)
2. Cronin (28)
3. Hagan (27)
4. Sykes (29)
5. Michael Kearney (23)
6. Ruddock (24)
7. Jordi Murphy (23)
8. Marshall (24)
9. Cooney (24)
10. Madigan (25)
11. Andrew Boyle (23)
12. McKinley (25)
13. Macken (23)
14. Coughlan Murray (22)
15. Kearney Jnr. (25)

10 of those players will be either part of the senior squad next season or have already played with the senior team with the others being likely to be part of it in the following year or two.

totallegend

pajunior wrote: »

He didn't but I imagine he doesn't see him as a 7.

Being an old school back-rower Popey loves his out and out 7's

On a related note, I wonder how much of the Leinster turnaround on Saturday was due to O'Brien switching from 7 to 6. He was fairly anonymous in the first half but immense in the second. I know you could say that about a lot of the Leinster players but I think we need to be playing our best players in their best positions and that means SOB at 6.

Would personally attribute it more to Jennings taking over at 7. The term "unseen work" is bandied around like it's going out of fashion, but watching Jennings do the dirty stuff is a joy. He is essential to the Leinster offloading game. He puts half seconds on opposition ball at rucktime, and shaves essential half seconds off our presentation. It's a very fine line between legal and illegal, but for someone who's so heavily involved in the breakdown, he doesn't concede half as many penalties as you'd expect.

totallegend

Deleted User wrote: »

Would personally attribute it more to Jennings taking over at 7. The term "unseen work" is bandied around like it's going out of fashion, but watching Jennings do the dirty stuff is a joy. He is essential to the Leinster offloading game. He puts half seconds on opposition ball at rucktime, and shaves essential half seconds off our presentation. It's a very fine line between legal and illegal, but for someone who's so heavily involved in the breakdown, he doesn't concede half as many penalties as you'd expect.

Yeah that's part of it too. Put it all together and it's bad news for Kev Mac; I'd be shocked if Jenno doesn't start the ML final.

danthefan

I said it before the game, Schmidt got that selection all wrong. Jennings should have been on from the start. He's essential to Leinster.

rockman15

Deleted User wrote: »

Would personally attribute it more to Jennings taking over at 7. The term "unseen work" is bandied around like it's going out of fashion, but watching Jennings do the dirty stuff is a joy. He is essential to the Leinster offloading game. He puts half seconds on opposition ball at rucktime, and shaves essential half seconds off our presentation. It's a very fine line between legal and illegal, but for someone who's so heavily involved in the breakdown, he doesn't concede half as many penalties as you'd expect.

Largely supportive of this. I would agree on the comparativly low amount of penalties he gives away. Equally if schmidt had an inclination as to what to expect on saturday it probably explains keeping jenno fresh on the bench for the first half. We're in a lucky position where we can keep the likes of Dominique Ryan and Ruddock out of the 23. I would still prefer to see Loughie in the second row. He was fairly annonymous on saturday for the first half. I think I counted 3 serious missed tackles that gave away a lot of field. Its brilliant that we can rely on jenno to be there. I would argue he should start on saturday. Hopefully Kidney will be in attendence with the Sky+ set at home just for comparative purposes of course

Jenno v Wallace would be a great battle to see.

Leroy Lita

either Euro/3rd Jersey or Training Jersey


Away


heard that the Home jersey will be the same design as the above away one.
quite like the Away one, Euro one is hideous.

danthefan

The top one is absolutely awful.

The white one is about as good as you could hope for in this age of hideous jersies.

PhatPiggins

rockman15 wrote: »

Largely supportive of this. I would agree on the comparativly low amount of penalties he gives away. Equally if schmidt had an inclination as to what to expect on saturday it probably explains keeping jenno fresh on the bench for the first half. We're in a lucky position where we can keep the likes of Dominique Ryan and Ruddock out of the 23. I would still prefer to see Loughie in the second row. He was fairly annonymous on saturday for the first half. I think I counted 3 serious missed tackles that gave away a lot of field. Its brilliant that we can rely on jenno to be there. I would argue he should start on saturday. Hopefully Kidney will be in attendence with the Sky+ set at home just for comparative purposes of course

Jenno v Wallace would be a great battle to see.

I don't know I think McLaughlin is largely a passenger in the second row. He's a back row forward, there's no point in playing him second row just to have him on the pitch.

Those Jerseys have been doing the rounds for a few weeks now, don't think either of them are much more than mock ups tbh...

Quint2010

GerM wrote: »

Pope's team for the future as per RTE's highlights show on Saturday night:

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. McGrath
4. McLaughlin
5. Toner
6. SOB
7. Ryan/Gilsenan
8. Heaslip
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Fitzgerald
12. McFadden
13. EOM
14. Conway
15. Kearney

Team was selected on the basis that it would be a team in 2014 and an entirely Irish team. Interesting that he selected Gilsenan and McGrath in there given they're still in school. As we all know already, the only place we look quite light for the future is at lock. That partnership would not inspire confidence in me.

I would throw Harrison Brewer into the mix there too. He has the best potential of any schools player I have ever seen.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

I would throw Harrison Brewer into the mix there too. He has the best potential of any schools player I have ever seen.

Isn't he 15? if so I think 2014 may be too soon for him no matter his potential

Quint2010

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Isn't he 15? if so I think 2014 may be too soon for him no matter his potential

He is 16. 19 year olds have played for Leinster before.

CatFromHue

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Isn't he 15?

ah here if he is thats just ridiculous!

i really dont like the way people talk up schools players.

reminds me of two guys i played against at junior level. both big guys who were the next big thing. come senior cup and they're nowhere. one had stopped playing and the other was half the player he was at junior. why? cos everyone has caught up with them size wise and they couldnt cope with it.

it also happens at 20's level. there was a guy on my team who everyone said he was a great player at schools and was just feeling his way into 20's. played two years with him and never saw him do anything worthwhile. he just wasnt able to cope with people being able for him physically.

Quint2010

CatFromHue wrote: »

ah here if he is thats just ridiculous!

i really dont like the way people talk up schools players.

reminds me of two guys i played against at junior level. both big guys who were the next big thing. come senior cup and they're nowhere. one had stopped playing and the other was half the player he was at junior. why? cos everyone has caught up with them size wise and they couldnt cope with it.

it also happens at 20's level. there was a guy on my team who everyone said he was a great player at schools and was just feeling his way into 20's. played two years with him and never saw him do anything worthwhile. he just wasnt able to cope with people being able for him physically.

Didnt D'Arcy play in the world cup when he was 19? Dominic Ryan made his Leinster debut when he was 19

totallegend

Quint2010 wrote: »

Didnt D'Arcy play in the world cup when he was 19? Dominic Ryan made his Leinster debut when he was 19

He sure did, against Romania, then didn't play again for three years. Sometimes it's a better idea to give players a bit more time to develop.

Edit; I suppose that was in the pre-academy days so you would hope younger lads are getting more support now.

WeeBushy

Quint2010 wrote: »

Didnt D'Arcy play in the world cup when he was 19? Dominic Ryan made his Leinster debut when he was 19

I don't think he's saying players never play at a young age or don't live up to their apparent potential. What he's (quite rightly) saying is that its just that. Potential. Many players don't develop the way they appear they might. He's still a child, plenty of growing and change ahead of him. We're not knocking him personally or saying he won't make it, obviously everyone wants him to succeed, but there's no point in hyping up a 16 year old. Its just far too early to tell how he will turn out.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

Didnt D'Arcy play in the world cup when he was 19? Dominic Ryan made his Leinster debut when he was 19

I've no problem with lads breaking through when they are 19, I just think tapping a 16 year old to play in three years time is rediculous because when a player is young there is every chance that he is a physical freak that developed two to three years ahead of his peers and will be average as an adult.

Brewer definitely has ability but I just hate bigging up schools players at that age they don't need the pressure.

rockman15

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I don't know I think McLaughlin is largely a passenger in the second row. He's a back row forward, there's no point in playing him second row just to have him on the pitch.

I wouldnt agree. I think we'll see at this WC a different role for 2nd rows. More carries, more dynamic running. We dont have that in our current batch of locks. Loughie has the ability to do those things and be more proactive at turning over ball, softer hands offloading through the tackle and he's a lineout operator. At present the current generation of locks are smash and grab type players. Pick the ball, find the gain line and tackle. Not only in ireland, Matfield, Botha, pape, nallet, Alyn Wyn and Ryan Jones all of the same mould. I think its going to/needs to change.


Given the resources we have coming through the academy and with toner at present I think he should be converted. Toner is nowhere near international standard. In fact I wouldnt play him in a H Cup match.

WeeBushy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I've no problem with lads breaking through when they are 19, I just think tapping a 16 year old to play in three years time is rediculous because when a player is young there is every chance that he is a physical freak that developed two to three years ahead of his peers and will be average as an adult.

Brewer definitely has ability but I just hate bigging up schools players at that age they don't need the pressure.

And to add to that, he hasn't even played in the Senior Cup. Obviously as a 16 yo that's not surprising, but the highest level he has played is JCT/Senior 2nds so its far to early to be speculating.