Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Conchir

Ah, I see. It would be great if it could happen, for everyone involved, by the sounds of it. We really need him fit.

CatFromHue

im not sure how its possible any more

the first currie cup game is the 16 july
the first itm cup game is 14 july
the first ireland friendly is the 6 august.

so there is 3 weeks between the start of the itm and currie cup and the first ireland game.

id imagine kearney will be training for ireland in that period.

LeeroyJones

Unless the idea is that he plays in SA for a month or so and comes back for the France/England matches from the 20th August in order for him to play roughly 5 competitive fixtures in the meantime.

Just an idea, doubt it will happen at all. I would be surprised if he is not training with Ireland from the get-go. I imagine this South Africa plan was a suggestion amongst many others which became a rumour on steroids!

[Jackass]

Podge_irl wrote: »

Apparently Leinster have sold 13,000 season tickets already. That's a phenomenal amount and will go a long way towards securing their finances. They really need to get the RDS expanded soon.

At the end of the season we are about to embark on, the Anglesea stand will be knocked and it will be redeveloped into c.26,000 stadium, with terracing all along the front of the new Anglesea end.

This was the word from the CEO of Leinster rugby when answering questions of the fans. He was quoted somewhere on the Leinster website also, as all the Q & A's were printed, search for Mick Dawson and you should find it if interested.

No design has been released / agreed as of yet.

totallegend

[Jackass] wrote: »

At the end of the season we are about to embark on, the Anglesea stand will be knocked and it will be redeveloped into c.26,000 stadium, with terracing all along the front of the new Anglesea end.

This was the word from the CEO of Leinster rugby when answering questions of the fans. He was quoted somewhere on the Leinster website also, as all the Q & A's were printed, search for Mick Dawson and you should find it if interested.

No design has been released / agreed as of yet.

Seems way too big for Leinster's needs, the average crowd in the RDS is only about 10,000 (regardless of what the official figures say) and for the big matches, the option of Lansdowne is there. Given that Leinster are unlikely ever to better their current form, how many extra supporters can they realistcally hope to attract?

roycon

rob kearney personally said he was going to the stormers. could just be to train with them though

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

the average crowd in the RDS is only about 10,000?

It is in my hole. It's significantly higher then that.

WeeBushy

roycon wrote: »

rob kearney personally said he was going to the stormers. could just be to train with them though

No idea why he would do that. Surely the Irish squad will be training together during the summer, which would be more beneficial for him to be at than training with a bunch of strangers.

Can't see why the Stormers would take him at all tbh. He hasn't played in a very long time so form is unknown, and would only be there for ~ 3 games and then off again. From their point of view he swans in and takes a place from a squad player who has given their all for the season. It would be more beneficial to play a youngster if they need the cover for 3 games than a foreign import whose coming back from injury.

I know if the roles were reversed I wouldn't be happy with a SH player coming up to get game time with Leinster for 3 games before heading off again.

CatFromHue

of the games played in the rds the average home crowd was 14460. thats about 4000 less than capcity.

so for the magners league we dont need a 26,000 stadium. it would frankly be awful to watch a game there when its half empty.

taking last season as an example there were 5 games less than 13k (dragons, aironi, treviso, lanelli, and glasgow) and 2 in the 14k region (ulster in the semi, and the ospreys). considering for these games these numbers dont reflect all that was actually in the stadium (except the ulster semi). the number includes all the season tickets not all of which showed up. so if we were to build a 26k stadium it would be alot less than half full in 6 out of 13 games and and just over half for 1 game (the ulster home semi).

thats just depressing to play and watch a game in.

for larger home games there is still the option of the aviva for 2 games out of the home heineken pool and home rabobank games.

the rds does need to be renovated facilities wise though.

[Jackass]

totallegend wrote: »

Seems way too big for Leinster's needs, the average crowd in the RDS is only about 10,000 (regardless of what the official figures say) and for the big matches, the option of Lansdowne is there. Given that Leinster are unlikely ever to better their current form, how many extra supporters can they realistcally hope to attract?

Leinster are the fastest growing team in world rugby, and from only a few years ago having a couple of thousand season ticket holders, the aim is 15,000 for the upcoming season. More tickets sold for the season than the average attendence of every other team in the league and the total of Munsters average attendance for the season just finished.

Rugby, as a sport, has only very recently come mainstream, and the fan base Leinster are tipping in to now is tip of the iceberg. If Leinster can remain amongst the strongest teams in Europe over the next decade, I have absolutely zero doubt that we will be the biggest supported team in the world by a distance.

Leinster now have the best attendence record in the league, and as the below chart shows, are the only team on a continuos and steep upwards curve.

durkadurka

I agree it doesn't need to be much bigger, but does need to be better.

With lansdowne just down the road there's not much point. The rds own it though so presumably it's their call.

ambid

CatFromHue wrote: »

of the games played in the rds the average home crowd was 14460. thats about 4000 less than capcity.

so for the magners league we dont need a 26,000 stadium. it would frankly be awful to watch a game there when its half empty.

taking last season as an example there were 5 games less than 13k (dragons, aironi, treviso, lanelli, and glasgow) and 2 in the 14k region (ulster in the semi, and the ospreys). considering for these games these numbers dont reflect all that was actually in the stadium (except the ulster semi). the number includes all the season tickets not all of which showed up. so if we were to build a 26k stadium it would be alot less than half full in 6 out of 13 games and and just over half for 1 game (the ulster home semi).

thats just depressing to play and watch a game in.

for larger home games there is still the option of the aviva for 2 games out of the home heineken pool and home rabobank games.

the rds does need to be renovated facilities wise though.

Very well argued post.

Average attendance now is usually about 75% to 80% of available capacity. Having 20% to 25% spare capacity means we have no real need for expansion. As Leinster would have to pay much of the cost although we only rent the RDS (from what I've read), I'd rather not invest in extra seats we don't need.

Jackass, I very much respect your opinion but I disagree. Attendances are driven by on field success and if we have significant spare capacity even when so incredibly successful, I don't see why we should expect dramatic attendance growth in the coming years when it's hard to imagine the team being dramatically more successful.

durkadurka summed it up very well, the RDS doesn't need to be bigger but does need to be better.

Conchir

Also, I know it's old and all, but I like the Anglesea Stand. It has a certain charm to it, it gives the RDS a bit of character. Hopefully it won't be replaced by some generic, grey block of seats.

I know it doesn't really matter once there is a load of Leinster fans in it, but still...

CIARAN_BOYLE

There is a couple of things to consider. Leinster's ML attendance this season was reduced because there was a massive magnet that drew all occasional supporters away from the RDS.

To explain my point a friend of mine goes to three matches a year or so, he went to Munster and Clermont in the Aviva and Ulster in the RDS. If Munster and Clermont was in the RDS 50,000 less Leinster fans would have been at those two matches. Many of them would have gone to an extra match through the season.

There are fourteen years left on the current lease with the RDS but there is a break clause in just four years when the contract can be renegotiated or withdrawn from.

I think if Leinster negotiate to ensure that they have a 3 regular season games instead of 2 in the aviva that will mean an extra 25K occasional fans in the aviva and thus showing up for a game less in the RDS. That could reduce average attendance in the RDS by 2,000 or so which would give more breathing space in the RDS.

If RDS want to expand the stadium great let them do it but I don't want to see Leinster being required to spend money on it.

durkadurka

Also despite the huge success In the last three years, the average magners attendance is only trending upwards slowly based on the graph above. We can sure draw a crowd for the HEC but the rds as it is, is more than acceptable for magners.

ambid

durkadurka wrote: »

Also despite the huge success In the last three years, the average magners attendance is only trending upwards slowly based on the graph above. We can sure draw a crowd for the HEC but the rds as it is, is more than acceptable for magners.

At the risk of arguing against myself a renovation of the Angelsea stand would make sense to provide corporate facilities. Sure the economy is thoroughly fecked, but given the number of corporates in Dublin/ Leinster, and given the lack of corporate facilities in the RDS, I would imagine that is a market which is relatively untapped. I'm sure the branch have a spreadsheet somewhere working out a business plan.

So renovation maybe isn't a priority for general attendance numbers, but maybe it could help reach new markets like corporate entertainment.

durkadurka

Probably . Important to remember that the rds main function as an organisation is equine activities -horses. Everything else Is just to fund horse shows and other equine stuff.

An improvement in corporate facilities defo sounds like a plan.

Tim Robbins

[Jackass] wrote: »

Leinster are the fastest growing team in world rugby, and from only a few years ago having a couple of thousand season ticket holders, the aim is 15,000 for the upcoming season. More tickets sold for the season than the average attendence of every other team in the league and the total of Munsters average attendance for the season just finished.

True but don't forget Irish soccer matches couldn't sell out Dalymount then the Charlton era came, the Irish team started winning and all of a sudden you couldn't get a ticket for Landstown.

Yes, the fan base for Leinster has shot up but the playing base has not. It has only gone up slightly.

How many new clubs are there in Leinster in the last ten years?
1. North Meath.
2. Tallaght put out two teams when they used to put out one. But they're twenties team has disappeared.
3. Emerald Warriors
4. Carlow IT - I think are new.

So that's it. Correct me if I am missing a few.

I had a tonne of games called off this year because clubs were struggling to put out teams. This includes some J1 teams. I suspect this is because the economy is doing so bad and lads lads are having to emigrate.

Now at schools level there are a number of new schools playing at dev level.
But I fear none of these schools will get the tradition. I fear they'll loose it as easy as they'll get it.

It's much harder to set up Rugby than any other sport. Because you really need your own pitch, your own scrummage machine, your own tackle bags and your own weights room or you'll struggle to be any good at it. It's not like Soccer where all you need is some grass. You don't even need showers.
Soccer can thrive in the poorest of economies - Rugby can't.

It's still way easier to access land outside Dublin so this is where we should be looking to get clubs with their own facilities.

I'd really like to see some thinking out of the box and a strategic plan put in place with specific goals. For example, to increase the number of clubs in all counties in Leinster by 20 - 50% over the next few years.

Get these clubs self sufficient with their own facilities and then they'll nurture the sport.

Now, I actually think that task is harder to win Heineken Cup with the current bunch of players we have had.

RMD

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Now at schools level there are a number of new schools playing at dev level.
But I fear none of these schools will get the tradition. I fear they'll loose it as easy as they'll get it.

Unfortunately new schools will never compete at a Senior Cup level. To compete at that level, you need a weights room, the equipment you mentioned, a decent pitch and a former provincial / international player to coach pretty much. Otherwise they'll never get past development leagues. As soon as they try to compete with the big schools, they generally suffer heavy defeats and that kills morale instantly.

That said though, there's still some amazingly talented players coming through from the current rugby schools and also the occasional gem from clubs / non-rugby schools.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

It is in my hole. It's significantly higher then that.

You conveniently left out the bit of my post which said "regardless of what the official figures say".

At a good few of the home games this year, the official attendance has been waaay in excess of the actual numbers of people.

Edit: the actual numbers don't matter and obviously I don't have hard evidence but I really think that on the basis of what we've seen the past two or three years, 26k is too big.

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

You conveniently left out the bit of my post which said "regardless of what the official figures say".

I didn't conveniently leave it out, I just think you're wrong. For one, the official attendance figure is taken from the number of tickets scanned at the entrance and not the number of tickets sold (I know that Leinster have taken all season ticket holders as being present for granted before, but I don't think they do this anymore). And more importantly from the times I've been there the average attendance is at least about 14/15,000.

If the move from Donnybrook to the RDS showed nothing else, it at least showed that attendance figures will increase dramatically with increased facilities. THe current Angleasea stand is a poor stand in terms of facilities and even viewing angles. Also, the few moves to Lansdowne show that a 26,000 stadium is by no means too large. With proper marketing and ticketing strategies Leinster could fairly easily fill that several times a year.

wixfjord

Podge_irl wrote: »

I didn't conveniently leave it out, I just think you're wrong. For one, the official attendance figure is taken from the number of tickets scanned at the entrance and not the number of tickets sold (I know that Leinster have taken all season ticket holders as being present for granted before, but I don't think they do this anymore). And more importantly from the times I've been there the average attendance is at least about 14/15,000.

If the move from Donnybrook to the RDS showed nothing else, it at least showed that attendance figures will increase dramatically with increased facilities. THe current Angleasea stand is a poor stand in terms of facilities and even viewing angles. Also, the few moves to Lansdowne show that a 26,000 stadium is by no means too large. With proper marketing and ticketing strategies Leinster could fairly easily fill that several times a year.

I agree Podge, I think a redesign of the RDS could be a wonderful thing for L.R.
The increased opportunities for corporate (which I don't think they do at all now), better facilities (toilets under the Angelsea anyone?!) and a permanent North and South stand, if possible, would be brilliant.
I personally find the RDS to currently be a poor stadium, and I think a better experience would mean people would be far more likely to spend €30 for a Friday night game against Aironi for example, rather than being stuck in a barely covered Angelsea of North Stand currently.

I look at Thomond, which is a brilliant stadium, although quite basic in terms of design, and there's no reason why Leinster couldn't do this, but better, considering we have a much larger potential fan base, and look to be on the up.

It'd really be another sign of our ambition to be without doubt the best club in Europe imo.
The brill marketing team have shown they're well capable of building a buzz, and filling stadiums, so I think there will be little trouble there.

Podge_irl

I don't think they can ever make the North and South stands permanent cause of the horse show.

danthefan

wixfjord wrote: »

I agree Podge, I think a redesign of the RDS could be a wonderful thing for L.R.
The increased opportunities for corporate (which I don't think they do at all now), better facilities (toilets under the Angelsea anyone?!) and a permanent North and South stand, if possible, would be brilliant.
I personally find the RDS to currently be a poor stadium, and I think a better experience would mean people would be far more likely to spend €30 for a Friday night game against Aironi for example, rather than being stuck in a barely covered Angelsea of North Stand currently.

I look at Thomond, which is a brilliant stadium, although quite basic in terms of design, and there's no reason why Leinster couldn't do this, but better, considering we have a much larger potential fan base, and look to be on the up.

It'd really be another sign of our ambition to be without doubt the best club in Europe imo.
The brill marketing team have shown they're well capable of building a buzz, and filling stadiums, so I think there will be little trouble there.

If the wind is blowing the wrong way you can get absolutely soaked in Thomond, with a roof over your head or not.

And the North and South stands can't ever be permanent I don't think, they take them down during the summer for concerts and the horse show. You also have to factor in Munster owned the land Thomond is on, Leinster do not own the RDS.

I agree though that the RDS isn't great, a new Anglesea Stand would be brilliant.

achtungbarry

It does seem that our options in terms of developing the RDS are very limited by space and the fact that temporary stands will always be part of the set up.

I wonder will Lansdowne Road ever come in to the equation as a permanent home? The bottom tier holds 18,500 which is exactly the same as the RDS with the upper tiers being opened for bigger games.

I'm not sure how I would feel playing in a Lansdowne with an empty top tier (although we did make a great atmosphere in Wembley last year with the top tier closed).

Lansdowne would obviously mean much better facilities and corporate possibilities. I'm not saying this is neccessarily a good idea but I'd like to hear other's opinions.

RMD

I would genuinely take a rain-soaked match in the North Stand of the RDS over a bottom tier game in the Aviva. Something about half filled stadiums just makes me think shíte atmosphere straight away. I don't know why, but I hate with a passion games in a half filled stadium.

ambid

achtungbarry wrote: »

It does seem that our options in terms of developing the RDS are very limited by space and the fact that temporary stands will always be part of the set up.

I wonder will Lansdowne Road ever come in to the equation as a permanent home? The bottom tier holds 18,500 which is exactly the same as the RDS with the upper tiers being opened for bigger games.

I'm not sure how I would feel playing in a Lansdowne with an empty top tier (although we did make a great atmosphere in Wembley last year with the top tier closed).

Lansdowne would obviously mean much better facilities and corporate possibilities. I'm not saying this is neccessarily a good idea but I'd like to hear other's opinions.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Half empty stadiums = no atmosphere. One of the Pro12's biggest problems is half empty stadiums. It creates such a poor impression and doesn't exactly scream that this is a successful league.

I think the present Leinster set up is good. The RDS is normally 75% to 80% full, and for big games can go just down the road to the Aviva.

Having the Aviva as an option for a home country semi in the Heineken is also a huge advantage. We would lose that if we made it our permanent home.

Sure the RDS is run down and needs quite a bit of work, but at least it has atmosphere. I'd hate to move to the Aviva permanently with average attendances around 15,000 which would be lost in a 50,000 capacity stadium. It would be horrible.

[Jackass]

The point is that Leinster season tickets are selling out every year. Next season there will only be c. 3,500 seats that haven't been sold for the entire season in the RDS, which is the minimum amount they have to keep free (after a deal was done with the Irish sides about how much they will release for travelling fans to open up more seats for season tickets.)

If Leinster could have a 26,000 stadium (which they are doing, it's not speculation, it's confirmed by Mick Dawson) they can sell up to 20,000 season tickets, whether or not everyone who purchased season tickets comes to the Aironi match or not, at an average price of about 500 per ticket, that's 1 million quid up front at the start of each season which more or less is a major safety net to cover operating costs throughout the year.

roycon

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think they can ever make the North and South stands permanent cause of the horse show.

they can make the north stand permanent but i dont think theyll make the south. it looks better if it has a smooth corner rather than two separate stands. so id prefer if they had a new similar east stand to the west stand with both joining nicely to the north end. the horse show merely uses the rds. it is separate to the owners of the rds. the rds gets considerably more money from rugby than they do from the horse show. whatever leinster say goes really. the horse show only happens for 5 days once a year.all they need is the space out the back still, a few stables and to keep the dressage and procession areas for the winners enclosure and every ones a winner. id like if they kept the box hedges around the ground. it adds to the quirkiness of the stadium.

danthefan

[Jackass] wrote: »

The point is that Leinster season tickets are selling out every year. Next season there will only be c. 3,500 seats that haven't been sold for the entire season in the RDS, which is the minimum amount they have to keep free (after a deal was done with the Irish sides about how much they will release for travelling fans to open up more seats for season tickets.)

If Leinster could have a 26,000 stadium (which they are doing, it's not speculation, it's confirmed by Mick Dawson) they can sell up to 20,000 season tickets, whether or not everyone who purchased season tickets comes to the Aironi match or not, at an average price of about 500 per ticket, that's 1 million quid up front at the start of each season which more or less is a major safety net to cover operating costs throughout the year.

Where/when was this confirmed? Link?

And there's no way 20k tickets are going to sell at 500 a pop, that's far too high a price.

Btw 20k * 500 is 10 million, not 1 million.