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Our man in Havana

The local Gardaí would call in what experts in HQ as required.

If any case was proven would the local Gardai process a possible extradition if the alleged perpetrators were outside the State ?.

Yes, they would.

It wasn't me!

Discodog wrote: »

Would the local Gardai have the facilities to do a forensic examination of the video or the animal expertise to assess if the Hare's behaviour was conducive with being strangled ?. If any case was proven would the local Gardai process a possible extradition if the alleged perpetrators were outside the State ?.

The local Gardai will call in such technical assistance as they deem necessary, including local expert opinion in matters such as the hare's behaviour. They're as likely to have "animal expertise" as anyone in Garda HQ. Local Gardai would also process any extradition paperwork if it were deemed necessary.

tomybhoy

The crime was allegedly committed in Clonmel and it will be Tippereary Gardai that bring the prosecution, the prison might have some swedes and it wont be potatos:D

DePurpereWolf

What crime? And what prosecution? Do you have any evidence that the police is going to prosecute?

scartman1

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

What crime? And what prosecution? Do you have any evidence that the police is going to prosecute?

1.Being in possession of a wild animal and abusing it contrary to law
2. Utilising false information knowingly to caste false aspertions on the ICC and deliberatley misleading a government department

DePurpereWolf

scartman1 wrote: »

1.Being in possession of a wild animal and abusing it contrary to law
2. Utilising false information knowingly to caste false aspertions on the ICC and deliberatley misleading a government department

Those are allegations. Which the police will look in to. To my knowledge, they have not started prosecution.

In my opinion, there will be none.

Discodog

scartman1 wrote: »

1.Being in possession of a wild animal and abusing it contrary to law
2. Utilising false information knowingly to caste false aspertions on the ICC and deliberatley misleading a government department

Don't forget being in breach of the Coursing regulations in failing to take care of the Hare.

Your number 1. sounds just like Coursing to me !.

Hopefully we will get a trial which will give the ICC some interesting publicity. Experts for the defence will counter experts for the prosecution. The Swedish public will probably want to come here for Coursing holidays after two of their nationals are extradited.

Is all of this really going to happen ?.

tomybhoy

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

What crime? And what prosecution? Do you have any evidence that the police is going to prosecute?

Strangling a hare is a crime believe it or not and the Gardai wont be found wanting on this one IMO.

Discodog

Well the ICC might end up regretting it. The first thing that any lawyer will do is balance winning the case against losing it. If the ICC were to win then the Irish Hunt Saboteurs would be discredited - but how much credit do they have to lose ?.

If the ICC lost then they would be guilty of failing to prevent injury to a Hare in direct breach of the Coursing regulations. Also the accused might want to sue for substantial deformation damages. The ICC is a government funded body so the fallout could be extensive & very embarrassing.

As this is a possible criminal case would the ICC have the choice of withdrawing charges ?. It could get rather messy especially as the defence would be bound to call some expert testimony of their own. It is one thing to allege that the Hare was strangled but it is a different ball game to prove who did it. Maybe some Coursers needed to blood a dog ?. Or is it going to be argued that this common practice of letting a Greyhound kill a Hare doesn't happen ?.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Without wanting to take sides in this; if the film is faked or not it still involves huge suffering to an animal. However, I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be prosecutions arising from this. Greater crimes against Nature happen in this country every week and less than 1% are investigated and seldom do any make it all the way to a court. To think otherwise with regard to this video is deluded. As for extradition...:D:D

Our man in Havana

The DPP would decide whether to prosecute or not. The ICC would have no say in the matter.

tomybhoy

Josie Tight Multimillionaire wrote: »

Without wanting to take sides in this; if the film is faked or not it still involves huge suffering to an animal. However, I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be prosecutions arising from this. Greater crimes against Nature happen in this country every week and less than 1% are investigated and seldom do any make it all the way to a court. To think otherwise with regard to this video is deluded. As for extradition...:D:D

Mark my words...people are going to pay for this!
And when they do they might just give the anglers that kill the poor fish a little time before they go after banning angling and shooting.
The end is coming for some groups in Ireland, evidence is shocking from what I have heard, to think someone would put these people up to doing this for propaganda purposes defies common decency.

Graces7

fatmammycat wrote: »

Let's stop with the wolves thing, it wasn't the point I meant and I think you know that. Wolves are not dogs, nor behave like dogs. So using their behaviour as a guideline is like me using zebras to describe the behaviour of TB steeple chasers.

As a passionate horse lover I hunted as a youth, I rode to hounds for a season as soon as I was allowed to do so. What I saw out hunting finished me with blood sports for life. I rode point-to point after that and am well versed in flora and fauna of the Irish countryside. My father owned a large amount of farmland, where despite numerous signs, yahoos poached, lamped and hunted illegally, my best friend's father bred ferrets to catch rabbits, everyone around me owned a shot gun and killed crows and magpies and vermin of all stripes.
But let us move the goalpsts back to where they were, NONE of this has a thing to do with coursing, which is a outdated throw back to a bygone era, a time when we compassionate Irish didn't give a hoot about the flora and fauna of this country. There are ample ways to continue the conservation of the natural fauna of Ireland without resorting to trapping and using nervous prey animals as live bait for the cheering minority.
I also remember when the dogs were not muzzled. What happend to the grand compassion of the noble courser then? Oh that's right, there was none and public opinion ground that particular 'tradition' out. As will the natural revulsion for current coursing set up.
You can dress up coursing any way you like, and as a supporter naturally you will, it matters not to me, but don't think for a second I do not know of what I speak or I am some townie with nary a clue to the countryside.


If you want to race hounds, do so at a track with a mechanical lure. Don't use the misery of another animal to justify a sport you enjoy.[/QUOTE]


THANK YOU. This says it all.

There is no need for a live hare.

Can folk not realise in truth the terror inflicted on a hare that is being chased by hounds?

The hare does not know that the dogs are muzzled etc etc. All it knows is that they are there after it.

There is no need for a live hard and all the rest re conservation is moonshine. You can conserve and protect with no other agenda needed.

No civilised country would allow this.

scartman1

Discodog wrote: »

Well the ICC might end up regretting it. The first thing that any lawyer will do is balance winning the case against losing it. If the ICC were to win then the Irish Hunt Saboteurs would be discredited - but how much credit do they have to lose ?.?.

THe DPP will take the case, it is a crime against the laws of the land, and it will depend on the evidence that they can bring to bear. The Animal Rights Front would lose a lot of credibility should they loose this case for obvious reasons. They Depend on donations to fund themselves to continue their propoganda war on field sports, as many of them are solely and unhealthily dedicated to this cause. They will loose their money for one thing.

Discodog wrote: »

If the ICC lost then they would be guilty of failing to prevent injury to a Hare in direct breach of the Coursing regulations. Also the accused might want to sue for substantial deformation damages. The ICC is a government funded body so the fallout could be extensive & very embarrassing.?.

As stated it would be the DPP that would be prosecuting. Your point that the ICC would be guilty of preventing a crime is strange to say the least. I should hope that if someone strangled one of my dogs in my house that I would not be found guilty of not preventing the crime.

Discodog wrote: »

As this is a possible criminal case would the ICC have the choice of withdrawing charges ?. It could get rather messy especially as the defence would be bound to call some expert testimony of their own. It is one thing to allege that the Hare was strangled but it is a different ball game to prove who did it. Maybe some Coursers needed to blood a dog ?. Or is it going to be argued that this common practice of letting a Greyhound kill a Hare doesn't happen ?.

Blooding of greyhounds is illegal full stop. The ICC and the laws of the land do not condone it, and nowhere will you see a defence team using the argument that because a crime was committed elsewhere then we were entitled to carry out same.

scartman1

Graces7

I would respectfully dissagree with your opinion. It is formed it seems from observation of others posts and second hand information. I stand to be corrected however.
It is important to be consistent in all things when legislating with regard to the laws of the land and imposing your opinions on others.

Do you consider Horse racing cruel and improper for a civilised society.?
What about fishing where anglers practice catch and release.? Morally there is no difference between them and coursing.
Are you against shooting and fishing where the quarry is killed?

Coursing is carried out by normal decent people who form part of the fabric of society. Demonising them as be uncivilised is off the mark.
Coursing promotes conservation actively.
Armchair opinions don't.

I hope that you will consider more deeply whats at stake and inform yourself fully as to the facts before passing judgement.

Discodog

scartman1 wrote: »

THe DPP will take the case, it is a crime against the laws of the land, and it will depend on the evidence that they can bring to bear. The Animal Rights Front would lose a lot of credibility should they loose this case for obvious reasons. They Depend on donations to fund themselves to continue their propoganda war on field sports, as many of them are solely and unhealthily dedicated to this cause. They will loose their money for one thing.
As stated it would be the DPP that would be prosecuting. Your point that the ICC would be guilty of preventing a crime is strange to say the least. I should hope that if someone strangled one of my dogs in my house that I would not be found guilty of not preventing the crime.
Blooding of greyhounds is illegal full stop. The ICC and the laws of the land do not condone it, and nowhere will you see a defence team using the argument that because a crime was committed elsewhere then we were entitled to carry out same.

Who are the Animal Rights Front ?. The video was aired by the Hunt Saboteurs. Do you think that people who donate to such groups will believe the ICC or DPP ?. If anything donations will increase.

You know the Coursing regulations. It is not about the ICC not preventing a crime but it is about the Stewards not protecting the well being of the Hare which is a strict condition of Coursing.

I am not suggesting that a tit for tat regarding blooding but we all know that it goes on. People need to bear in mind that the IGB & ICC do not regulate all racing & coursing. There is plenty of unlicensed "sport" that is not regulated.

Niall Gavin

THANK YOU. This says it all.

There is no need for a live hare.

Can folk not realise in truth the terror inflicted on a hare that is being chased by hounds?

The hare does not know that the dogs are muzzled etc etc. All it knows is that they are there after it.

There is no need for a live hard and all the rest re conservation is moonshine. You can conserve and protect with no other agenda needed.

No civilised country would allow this.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the hare does not know that the dogs are muzzled but would you not agree that the hare is also unaware of the outcome of being chased generally. The Irish Hare's mechanism's of defence are a) camouflage b) flight.It has evolved down through the years to take flight when meeting an adversary. You would be very surprised at how quickly the hare returns to a calm state and can been seen feeding only a couple of minutes after being coursed.
Also, it has been mentioned quite a bit that the hare is put under extreme stress with being captured for coursing. I have to disagree with this solely on the evidence of how they remain feeding just as when in the wild. A stressed hare will not feed and their physical condition will deteriorate rapidly. This however does not occur so would lead me to believe that stress levels, if any, is a non argument.

Niall Gavin

Discodog wrote: »

Who are the Animal Rights Front ?. The video was aired by the Hunt Saboteurs. Do you think that people who donate to such groups will believe the ICC or DPP ?. If anything donations will increase.

You know the Coursing regulations. It is not about the ICC not preventing a crime but it is about the Stewards not protecting the well being of the Hare which is a strict condition of Coursing.

I am not suggesting that a tit for tat regarding blooding but we all know that it goes on. People need to bear in mind that the IGB & ICC do not regulate all racing & coursing. There is plenty of unlicensed "sport" that is not regulated.

It is due to this very fact that we have seen a decimation of hare numbers in the north, simply because it has no effective regulating body and a free for all situation has occurred. The followers of this type of coursing are as much an enemy to the ICC as are the producers of this video.

Our man in Havana

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