no licence no nct

BloodyDeath

stopped for no nct (05 car) asked for licence said it was at home. i dont have 1 nor have i ever. am i bambozzled.

have applied for nct and as its a 05 car dont think i was to far out of date either way. just no licince thingy be a rope round my neck. how tight do u reckon they will pull it?

Anan1

Very. How did you get insurance without ever having had a license?

DonJose

What about insurance, don't think you can get insurance as you don't hold a license?

Noopti

:rolleyes:

Hopefully your car is taken from you and crushed....

Gary ITR

No insurance company ever asked to see my license

If I was you I'd book the NCT and apply for a license asap, chances are you'll receive a summons for non production but if you get yourself in order before your court date the Judge *may* be lenient towards you. You are really over a barrel though

Paddy@CIRL

Noopti wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Hopefully your car is taken from you and crushed....

While the OP is till in it ...

DonJose

The following link might help,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055806731

Anan1

Noopti wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Hopefully your car is taken from you and crushed....

Let's keep it factual, thanks.

BarryM

To be honest you deserve whatever you get, I am wondering if this is a joke....

Your chances of getting absolutely bolloxed depend on the efficiency of the guard (I assume it was guard who stopped you?) He/she has to follow up the no nct and see if you produce a license. The former is easy for them, they tell the nct that the cars isn't tested and NCT will use the address on your tax disk (you do have one?) to chase you. Also you'll probably go on the Pulse system and (in theory) a garda car can put in your reg online and find out all about you....

For the license, if you don't turn up he/she has to follow it up. If they do you'll be summonsed. If you don't turn up to the court you'll have a warrent issued. Either way you could end up on various databases like Pulse.

Have you insurance? Do your insurance co know you've no license? Either way your probably not covered, withholding info to get insurance.....

Cop on, unless, and I hope you are, you're having us on.

Paddy@CIRL

Would I be correct in saying that if he / she has no license it would invalidate his / her insurance ? If the OP even has insurance ?

Noopti

Can your car not be crushed for having no insurance??? Or is that a UK thing?

DonJose

Onkle wrote: »

...apply for a license asap, chances are you'll receive a summons for non production but if you get yourself in order before your court date the Judge *may* be lenient towards you. You are really over a barrel though

"Its a three part summons. Failure to produce there an then, fail to produce within tens days and No licence."

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64121993&postcount=7

Max Power1

Anan1 wrote: »

Let's keep it factual, thanks.

tbf I think the post sums up the attitude of most (if not all) legitimate drivers who pass their test, keep their cars NCTd, and spend large amounts on insurance and tax.

I hope that the OP is trolling and its not a serious question. People who drive without a license really irritate me

EDIT: to clarify, I am not trying to argue a mod decision on thread.

Max Power1

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying that if he / she has no license it would invalidate his / her insurance ? If the OP even has insurance ?

Yes. The questin always asked when quoting for insurance is "do you or have you in the last 10 years have a valid license.

Anan1

I'll say this one last time - keep the answers to the factual.

Jip

Onkle wrote: »

No insurance company ever asked to see my license

My wife has just left my policy to her own with a different insurer, they asked for a copy of both hers and mine.

Noopti

Anan1 wrote: »

I'll say this one last time - keep the answers to the factual.

I thought I was being factual. But it turns out it is in the UK that they can crush your car for having no insurance. My mistake.

Anan1

Max Power1 wrote: »

tbf I think the post sums up the attitude of most (if not all) legitimate drivers who pass their test, keep their cars NCTd, and spend large amounts on insurance and tax.

I hope that the OP is trolling and its not a serious question. People who drive without a license really irritate me

EDIT: to clarify, I am not trying to argue a mod decision on thread.

Fine, and I might feel the same way myself. That being said, I won't allow this thread to descend into a witch-hunt. This really is my final warning, so please don't force an outcome that none of us want.

BloodyDeath

ta for the replys pps. yes i know all the crushed cars and give him the boot lark talk and yes ur rite.

i do have insurance never had problem getting it either over the phone. car was taxed and nct as i said is just due as its a 05 car.

but licence thing is the prob.

but i should get what i deseve and ill be first to admit it. i was just asking what would be the likelt outcome

Robxxx7

discussion with an insurance guy not so long ago regarding this subject and he said the insurance would still cover ... as payment has been made and they more or less cover the car not the person ...

Crazy i thought ... why don't we all just go out and drive without a valid full licence .... oh wait lots of people do that already ...

To the OP .. expect the worse and see what transpires

BarryM

DonJose wrote: »

The following link might help,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055806731

Jaysus, what a litany. Makes the (w)ankers look like good boys and girls.
The link may help, but only to know how bad it can get.....:P

mickdw

The OP would be guilty of all 3 driving licence offences at this stage. Was it not the easiest thing in the world to get a provisional before you went on the road? Even an out of date provisional would leave you in a much better situation
Having never had a licence would mean the insurance is invalid I would think also but thats another issue.

Max Power1

Robxxx7 wrote: »

discussion with an insurance guy not so long ago regarding this subject and he said the insurance would still cover ... as payment has been made and they more or less cover the car not the person ...

Crazy i thought ... why don't we all just go out and drive without a valid full licence .... oh wait lots of people do that already ...

To the OP .. expect the worse and see what transpires

Any link to back that up?
Normally insurers will pay only 3rd party (the statutory minimum) and they are entitled to pursue the claimant. The policy would be regarded as void because in order to get insurance you must tick a box and sign that you have a valid licence. if you lied on the proposal form the insurance is null and void (and indeed you can be prosecuted for not having insurance - even though you have a disc in the windscreen and you paid a premium)

Anan1

BarryM wrote: »

Jaysus, what a litany. Makes the (w)ankers look like good boys and girls.
The link may help, but only to know how bad it can get.....:P

Banned for 3 days for ignoring not one but three warnings.

Anan1

Max Power1 wrote: »

Any link to back that up?
Normally insurers will pay only 3rd party (the statutory minimum) and they are entitled to pursue the claimant. The policy would be regarded as void because in order to get insurance you must tick a box and sign that you have a valid licence. if you lied on the proposal form the insurance is null and void (and indeed you can be prosecuted for not having insurance - even though you have a disc in the windscreen and you paid a premium)

I would have thought the same myself. Can anyone confirm either way?

Max Power1

mickdw wrote: »

The OP would be guilty of all 3 driving licence offences at this stage. Was it not the easiest thing in the world to get a provisional before you went on the road? Even an out of date provisional would leave you in a much better situation
Having never had a licence would mean the insurance is invalid I would think also but thats another issue.

That would mean that you were covered. Thats the difference (as you didnt lie during the proposal), although the fact that you drove unacompanied on a provisonal is illegal, it does NOT invalidate your insurance. (having been in a similar situation a few moons back I sought clarification from a few insurance companies)

Robxxx7

no unfortunately no link .. but just a purely verbal conversation,

How would the insurance cover someone driving around on their own with a provisional licence only aswell !! As thats every bit as illegal as driving with no licence

***
Ah you just answered my question ....

My view you shouldn't be covered either ... how is something more ileegal than the other

Max Power1

Anan1 wrote: »

I would have thought the same myself. Can anyone confirm either way?

a quick google doesnt confirm (all results related to the UK - where the answer was similar to my earlier post)

I have sent an email to the IIF and when/if they respond ill post up here

MagicSean

3 part summons for the licence and 3 part summons for the NCT. If the garda follows up with the insurance company you will probably be looking at some sort of fraud charge. I think it's the same offence for someone who doesn't declare modifications.

Depending on your previous convictions and the judge on duty you are looking at a the possability of a lengthy ban and probably a fine in the region of €1500 for the licence and another big fine for the NCT.

As regards getting your car NCTd it doesn't really matter. If the garda discovers you have no licence or insurance he will probably press ahead with the summons anyway because you hadn't an NCT on the day. Don't bother getting your car NCTd if you are going to drive to the centre yourself with no licence because you're just asking for more trouble.

Hooch

BloodyDeath wrote: »

stopped for no nct (05 car) asked for licence said it was at home. i dont have 1 nor have i ever. am i bambozzled.

have applied for nct and as its a 05 car dont think i was to far out of date either way. just no licince thingy be a rope round my neck. how tight do u reckon they will pull it?

I reckon they will pull it until it breaks......

No licence....ever.....means you made a false decleration for your insurance (ie you said you have a learner permit or full licence). False decleration makes your insurance null and void. Simples.

So your looking at no licence, no licence at the scene, failure to produce, no insurance, failure to produce valid insurance as well as no NCT, non production of NCT and non display of NCT.

If prosecuted and convicted your looking at a disqualification of at least a year and fines mounting to a minimum of €2,000 in monetary fines.

Hooch

Anan1 wrote: »

I would have thought the same myself. Can anyone confirm either way?

The insurance company wont cover if a false decleration is made. The person that the poster was talking to most likey doesnt have a bogs notion how the criminal aspect of insurance works.

starfish12

i worked with a guy who also didnt have a licence, he had to go to court, and pay a fine of €1200 & got a driving ban, he got found out as he was involved in an accident, for which his insurance refused to pay out as he had fraudulently entered into a contract with them, as he had stated on the org. application that he held a licence....so it seems it does happen.

Hooch

k_mac wrote: »

3 part summons for the licence and 3 part summons for the NCT. If the garda follows up with the insurance company you will probably be looking at some sort of fraud charge. I think it's the same offence for someone who doesn't declare modifications.

There is no fraud chargew for it. Making a false decleration is however it requires the recording of the telephone call, papers signed and the agent to go as a witness.

Its much easier to just go for no licence and no insurance. A certificate from the Motor licencing department and the RSA proves they never had a licence which in turn makes it impossible to gain insurance.

Max Power1

below is the email sent to the IIF so we will get an answer once and for all

To: [EMAIL="'iis@iif.ie'"]'iis@iif.ie'[/EMAIL]

To whom it may concern

I have a general query regarding insurance cover and validity and would appreciate your input.

If a consumer takes out insurance on the basis that they are in possession of a full licence, but they in fact do not have and have never had a full or provisional licence, does this automatically render any and all insurance null and void, including the statutory minimum 3rd party cover?

Thanks for your input

With kind regards

MaxPower1

testicle

firing squad

Anan1

testicle wrote: »

firing squad

Banned for 3 days for ignoring not one but three warnings.

Max Power1

Jees that was quick (personal details ommitted from email)

Thank you for your email and my reply is based on the information you have supplied.

The policy would be null and void from inception and Road Traffic Act Cover would apply only within the cancellation notice period that would be issued to the policy holder. The insurer would also have the right of recover against the insured, if a Third Party claim was settled within that period.

Regards

XXXXX
Insurance Information Officer
Irish Insurance Federation
Insurance House
39 Molesworth Street
Dublin 2
Reception: +353 (0) 1 6761820
T:+353 (0) 1
F:+353 (0) 1
E: XXX@iif.ie
For the latest insurance news visit www.iif.ie
Report suspect claims to Insurance Confidential LoCall 1890 333 333
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely
for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have
recieved this email in error please notify fed@iif.ie

Vertakill

I think it really depends on what Garda is responsible for the issue.

A Polish guy rammed into the back of me while trying to overtake me on his motorbike and after 14 months of back/forth with Garda/Insurance company, someone uncovered that the guy had no tax, insurance and hadn't VRT'd his motorbike.

Whereas I was paying 4.5k for tax/insurance at the time and, ironically, I was really lucky that the guy had no insurance at all because I was covered through the uninsured drivers thing because the Garda in question was so negligent.

So, yeah, a decent Garda will catch you out and the bad Garda will probably sit on the incident for so long that they're not even able to act on it when they do go about doing something.

Lets hope you get a great Garda and you get a huge fine and banned from driving for a very very long time.

Anan1

Vertakill wrote: »

Lets hope you get a great Garda and you get a huge fine and banned from driving for a very very long time.

Banned for 3 days for ignoring not one but three warnings.

MagicMarker

OP, going by this thread you've been driving for at least 4 years, probably a lot longer.

I'm trying to get my head around why you would not even contemplate getting a license? You've been driving all this time without a license and more importantly without INSURANCE!

Truly mind boggling.

I think you should just come clean with the garda and tell them the full story.

merchant08

Why would u have bothered paying a pile of money for insurance, its not worth the paper it was printed on.

Hopefuly jail for you

keithclancy

You'll just get the standard summon's (Not sure if they'll bother with the NCT)

No License
No Insurance
Failure to Produce License
Failure to Produce Insurance

Afaik, will just be a large fine (2000 - 3000 euros) and a ban.

There'll be a date on the summons, turn up early, wait for your name to be called (DPP vs You) and then stand up.

The Garda will read out the charges, the just will ask you how you plead.

Nothing you can do but plead Guilty, just turn up nicely dressed, explain you are sorry and that you realise you were wrong and you'll never do it again, be polite and Courteous, don't get smart and just be very humble, only speak when spoken to.

The Judge will ask if you have any prior offenses, if you don't then this will go in your favour.

You could get a Solicitor but thats only going to be an added cost for them saying the same thing.

If you can't afford the fine offer to pay it in installments, advise the maximum amount per week you can pay (explain your circumstances and why you can only pay that much **ffs don't lie whatever you do, you might trip yourself up**)

The judge will more than likely give you a good chastising.

If your lucky you might get a Judge in a good mood and get off lightly, you might get a nutter and get a good tanning,

Thats from my experience of hanging around a court for the day waiting because some edjit in the Garda station wrote it down in 'The book' and it never got through to the Garda that had applied for the summons :rolleyes:

seamus

So to sum up what's been covered in this thread, you're likely to be done for no licence and no nct.

Both of these offences require mandatory court appearances and will incur fines.

Driving without ever having held a licence carries a maximum penalty of €2,000 as well as a possible 6 month jail sentence.

Driving without an NCT carries a maximum penalty of up to €1,500 (afaik)

In addition, the Garda may choose to charge with two additional offences:

- Driving without insurance (section 56 of the RTA)
- Obtaining insurance documents by fraud (section 64 of the RTA)

Both offences carry maximum penalties of up to €5k (each) as well as a possible 6 month jail term (each).

cpoh1

Off with his head! Despicable behaviour!

Can I get a ban too for the craic?

Gary ITR

cpoh1 wrote: »

Can I get a ban too for the craic?

Done. Any more of this and the bans will be for 2 weeks, there have been enough warnings

MagicSean

seamus wrote: »

- Obtaining insurance documents by fraud (section 64 of the RTA)

I knew there was a fraud offence somewhere for it.

Guy:Incognito

Onkle wrote: »

If I was you I'd book the NCT and apply for a license asap, chances are you'll receive a summons for non production but if you get yourself in order before your court date the Judge *may* be lenient towards you. You are really over a barrel though

I could never understand the reasoning behind judges being lenient on peopel because they do things like apply for licences, nct, tax etc in thetime betweem being caught and a court case. They ae clearlyonly doing it because they were caught and are now trying to curry favour with the judge rather than being remorsfull.

It's like the was judges give suspended bans or reduce them because the person needs the car for work.Surel if your car is so vital to provide for you and /or your faily you should be twice as careful not to have it taken off you.

Onkle wrote: »

No insurance company ever asked to see my license

I've been asked for front and back copies of my and mynamed drivers licences from my last couple of insurance companies.

Gary ITR

Stekelly wrote: »

I could never understand the reasoning behind judges being lenient on peopel because they do things like apply for licences, nct, tax etc in thetime betweem being caught and a court case. They ae clearlyonly doing it because they were caught and are now trying to curry favour with the judge rather than being remorsfull.

I would imagine it's because the idea of punishing somebody is to teach them a lesson and make sure they do things properly in future, if a person has 'mended their ways' then haven't they learned the lesson? Not saying I agree with this btw, it's just the way I see it

Anan1

merchant08 wrote: »

Hopefuly jail for you

And yet another three day ban.

L1011

Stekelly wrote: »

I've been asked for front and back copies of my and mynamed drivers licences from my last couple of insurance companies.

I've been asked by Allianz. I have not by Travellers or Quinn. Its not consistent across the lot of them.

Max Power1

MYOB wrote: »

I've been asked by Allianz. I have not by Travellers or Quinn. Its not consistent across the lot of them.

Ive been asked by Travellers... and Asgard/whoever Britton insurance use