French rugby Updates : Le café du Rugby.

ScrubsfanChris · 25-08-2018 2:31pm

Parisse has just been given one of the most ridiculous red cards I've seen. It looks like Stade will still win, but that officiating was truly appalling.

Clegg · 25-08-2018 2:37pm

Parisse has just been sent off for Stade and it's the most ridiculous red card I will ever seen. He caught the ball and was about to be tackled so braced himself for impact. In doing so he leaned forward and the tackler essential ran into Parisse's shoulder. Referee called it deliberate contact above the neck and sent him off.

It was a stupid decision and essentially punished Parisse for protecting himself. Rugby's a physical game and the decision ignored all context. Referee needs speaking to by the governing body after the game.

25-08-2018 2:49pm

How do you even consider a penalty for that. Jokeshop.

Former Former · 25-08-2018 2:50pm

Correct decision. You are not allowed shoulder people in the head.

Red was harsh maybe but definitely an offence.

25-08-2018 2:51pm

Former Former wrote: »

Correct decision. You are not allowed shoulder people in the head.

Red was harsh maybe but definitely an offence.

I don't get it, he braced himself - he didn't hit anyone?

Former Former · 25-08-2018 2:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't get it, he braced himself - he didn't hit anyone?

Looks to me like there's a forward motion of the shoulder.

25-08-2018 2:56pm

Former Former wrote: »

Looks to me like there's a forward motion of the shoulder.

I'm sure the replay will be online shortly, it looked like he caught the ball and turned into the tackle to take it as much on his own terms as possible, other player ran straight into the shoulder in an upright position, was entirely his own fault. Will put my hands up if I'm wrong but I don't see anything to warrant even a penalty.

ScrubsfanChris · 25-08-2018 3:52pm

Parisse barely moved, it was awful tackle technique and if Sergios arm wasnt where it was there would have been a sicking head clash, caused by the tackler. The only forward motion was after the hit and thats just him trying to shrug off the tackler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJdGn_1_XRg

thomond2006 · 25-08-2018 4:05pm

Stade still ended up hockeying Perpignan.

I don't see enough in that replay to warrant that sanction. Maybe a penalty.

Former Former · 25-08-2018 4:17pm

I dunno, it might be a case of looking worse in slow motion but looks to me like he's going forward into it and there's a follow through.

irishbucsfan · 25-08-2018 4:36pm

Referee had no choice there whatsoever

ArmchairQB · 25-08-2018 6:37pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Referee had no choice there whatsoever

Still has one foot of& the ground when Contact is made, neve4 a sending off, play on

Dog Botherer · 25-08-2018 6:45pm

Never even a penalty, awful tackling. Nothing Parisse could have done differently in any case.

irishbucsfan · 25-08-2018 7:13pm

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Still has one foot of& the ground when Contact is made, neve4 a sending off, play on

Not even remotely relevant how many feet he had on the ground. I mean it could be and it might be smart, but the ref has to use the laws that already exist.

sydthebeat · 25-08-2018 7:40pm

Action of the tackler caused the head contact.

I can see why it was given by the ref but its something I completely disagree with.....completely awful tackling technique.

So now the ball carrier has to change their actions because of the position of the tackler?? Ffs.

A tackler may as well just run around face first into guys in the hope of getting them sent off.

irishbucsfan · 25-08-2018 7:45pm

It's nothing new. It's always been this way, if you lead with the elbow/forearm you can be done for it. Happened to Dan Tuohy as well.

Completely justifiable that it could have been a yellow given how little time there was between him catching the ball and making his movement, but there is a clear controlled movement and that makes him responsible.

I'd hope they don't ban him and just say the red was enough.

As for the tackler, it was terrible technique and therefore I've little sympathy for the concussion I'm sure he sustained.

Eoinbmw · 26-08-2018 10:53am

Just watching now on sky it was head to shoulder not shoulder to head!
Ref claiming forearm/elbow to head it was not!
Terrible decision and these decisions will ruin the game!

baas baa · 26-08-2018 3:16pm

Don’t understand that decision, it’s not an unnatural movement by Parisse, when there’s 100kgs running into a stationary target at full speed it doesn’t make sense to put excessive focus on the stationary player, the contact to the head was down to the tackler going too high and leading with his head.

26-08-2018 3:19pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Parisse barely moved, it was awful tackle technique and if Sergios arm wasnt where it was there would have been a sicking head clash, caused by the tackler. The only forward motion was after the hit and thats just him trying to shrug off the tackler.

Absurd. The game's gone!

pickarooney · 26-08-2018 5:29pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not even remotely relevant how many feet he had on the ground. I mean it could be and it might be smart, but the ref has to use the laws that already exist.

So, penalty against Perpignan for tackling a player in the air?

Sangre · 26-08-2018 7:02pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Referee had no choice there whatsoever

Former Former wrote: »

Correct decision. You are not allowed shoulder people in the head.

Red was harsh maybe but definitely an offence.

I hate being hyperbolic with these once off events but if that is a red card then the rules of rugby need to change. You can't charge head first into someone, take a bad contact, and then penalise the winner of the collision.

This is not directed at you directly just using your post as a response.

Former Former · 26-08-2018 7:11pm

Sangre wrote: »

I hate being hyperbolic with these once off events but if that is a red card then the rules of rugby need to change. You can't charge head first into someone, take a bad contact, and then penalise the winner of the collision.

This is not directed at you directly just using your post as a response.

Agreed. But it looks to me like Parisse leads with the shoulder and follows through, and that's a red card.

So we're looking at the same thing but seeing two different things.

The ref saw it the same as me so he made the right call, based on how he saw it.

Eoinbmw · 26-08-2018 7:58pm

Former Former wrote: »

Agreed. But it looks to me like Parisse leads with the shoulder and follows through, and that's a red card.

So we're looking at the same thing but seeing two different things.

The ref saw it the same as me so he made the right call, based on how he saw it.

He did not even drop the shoulder he just braced for the tackle!

swiwi_ · 27-08-2018 8:50am

Clearly shouldn't have been a red card, as my computer programme clearly shows

IF IBF = FF THEN
PRINT "Not a red card"
ELSEIF IBF > FF OR IBF < FF THEN
PRINT "Possible red card"
ELSE
PRINT "Red card"
END IF

irishbucsfan · 27-08-2018 8:52am

The only opinions that matter really are the qualified refs.

People can continue to be surprised by refereeing/TMO/citing decisions or they can just take a tiny amount of time to consider the laws and precedent being set constantly and they'd be surprised by their lack of surprise!

razorblunt · 27-08-2018 2:18pm

I've watched the clip and I remember thinking "this is about the only time I think everyone can be in agreement that its an awful decision".
Nope!

ScrubsfanChris · 29-08-2018 9:08pm

From L'equipe
https://m.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Pas-de-sanction-disciplinaire-contre-sergio-parisse-apres-le-carton-rouge-recu-contre-perpignan/934984

After taking into account the complementary report of the referee of the match who indicated that with hindsight the gesture did not justify a red card, the Disciplinary Committee and the regulations decided (...) that he "There was no place for disciplinary action" against Parisse, said the Commission in a statement Wednesday, qualifying the player for the second day of Top 14

Justice as red card more or less rescinded and no ban.

29-08-2018 9:29pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

From L'equipe
https://m.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Pas-de-sanction-disciplinaire-contre-sergio-parisse-apres-le-carton-rouge-recu-contre-perpignan/934984Justice as red card more or less rescinded and no ban.

I'm not surprised. If you looked at the actual incident you'd almost be surprised by your lack of surprise!

Squatter · 29-08-2018 9:49pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The only opinions that matter really are the qualified refs.

People can continue to be surprised by refereeing/TMO/citing decisions or they can just take a tiny amount of time to consider the laws and precedent being set constantly and they'd be surprised by their lack of surprise!

So obviously you strongly disagree with the qualified ref who stated that he shouldn't have issued that red card?

29-08-2018 9:57pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

From L'equipe
https://m.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Pas-de-sanction-disciplinaire-contre-sergio-parisse-apres-le-carton-rouge-recu-contre-perpignan/934984Justice as red card more or less rescinded and no ban.

The ref himself says no red?

Sense prevails. Absolute nonsense call.

sydthebeat · 29-08-2018 10:08pm

It's good that there's a process to rectify mistakes.

Worrying that it was tmo reviewed and they still came to that decision though, it would appear refs aren't too sure on the application of the law versus the playing of the game.

29-08-2018 10:16pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

It's good that there's a process to rectify mistakes.

Worrying that it was tmo reviewed and they still came to that decision though, it would appear regs aren't too sure on the application of the law versus the playing of the game.

I read somewhere else that the TMO didn't agree with the ref. I can't confirm or deny as I don't speak French.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2018 3:50am

Squatter wrote: »

So obviously you strongly disagree with the qualified ref who stated that he shouldn't have issued that red card?

I mean I'm not sure if there's a comprehension problem here but what I said I hoped would happen to Parisse was exactly what happened?

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's nothing new. It's always been this way, if you lead with the elbow/forearm you can be done for it. Happened to Dan Tuohy as well.

Completely justifiable that it could have been a yellow given how little time there was between him catching the ball and making his movement, but there is a clear controlled movement and that makes him responsible.

I'd hope they don't ban him and just say the red was enough.

As for the tackler, it was terrible technique and therefore I've little sympathy for the concussion I'm sure he sustained.

I'm not sure they've rescinded that red card though, which I'd hope they will if the ref has said in the report that it shouldn't have been a red on reflection. It could become important later on if they've any tie-breakers based on fair play. I'm sure they'll pursue that if it hasn't been rescinded.

swiwi_ · 30-08-2018 5:21am

Former Former wrote: »

Correct decision. You are not allowed shoulder people in the head.

Red was harsh maybe but definitely an offence.

Would be interesting to know if the ref is an ex-player. I suspect maybe not. I really didn't see any shoulder to head. I did see a player bracing himself for potentially high contact.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2018 6:28am

swiwi_ wrote: »

Would be interesting to know if the ref is an ex-player. I suspect maybe not. I really didn't see any shoulder to head. I did see a player bracing himself for potentially high contact.

The number of professional rugby referees who have never played rugby is a tiny number.

Certainly far smaller than the number of posters on here who have never played, which is of course far smaller again than the number who've never qualified as refs. Shouldn't really mean anything.

pickarooney · 30-08-2018 8:24am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I mean I'm not sure if there's a comprehension problem here but what I said I hoped would happen to Parisse was exactly what happened?

I'm not sure they've rescinded that red card though, which I'd hope they will if the ref has said in the report that it shouldn't have been a red on reflection. It could become important later on if they've any tie-breakers based on fair play. I'm sure they'll pursue that if it hasn't been rescinded.

In fairness you've hedged your bets enough to have covered every base from nothing to penalty to yellow card to red to possible suspension !

iroced · 31-08-2018 9:51am

About the Parisse RC, I think there are 2 things that needed to be taken into account:
1- the death of the ypung Aurillac player Louis Fajfrowski after a shock on the pitch earlier this summer,
2- the slow-mo that did not help Parisse since it shows a tiny but still present movement of the shoulder towards Brazzo. That is called bodycheck and that's ice hockey not rugby.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

As for the tackler, it was terrible technique and therefore I've little sympathy for the concussion I'm sure he sustained.

After the Louis Fajfrowski drama I find this comment pretty inappropriate.

-

As for this first round of 2018/19 TOP14, some very big scores (ASM, SF, UBB), some surprises (Racing hammering RCT at Mayol, to a lesser extent Castres beating Montpellier away). Rude awakenings for the 2 promotted teams: 113 points conceded for only 38 scored.

ScrubsfanChris · 31-08-2018 6:00pm

iroced wrote: »

About the Parisse RC, I think there are 2 things that needed to be taken into account:
1- the death of the ypung Aurillac player Louis Fajfrowski after a shock on the pitch earlier this summer,
2- the slow-mo that did not help Parisse since it shows a tiny but still present movement of the shoulder towards Brazzo. That is called bodycheck and that's ice hockey not rugby.

Parisse was bracing himself and clearly had no intent on seriously injuring someone. Brazzo himself even admitied it was his own stupid fault for tackling high face first.
How about players look after themselves on the field too?

The Fajfrowski incident while tragic, the cause of his death is still unknown, so for now doesn't appear similar to what happen between Parisse and Brazzo so not sure why you even bring it up.

iroced · 01-09-2018 11:07am

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Parisse was bracing himself and clearly had no intent on seriously injuring someone. Brazzo himself even admitied it was his own stupid fault for tackling high face first.
How about players look after themselves on the field too?

The Fajfrowski incident while tragic, the cause of his death is still unknown, so for now doesn't appear similar to what happen between Parisse and Brazzo so not sure why you even bring it up.

I did not say otherwise. I just gave 2 arguments (including the Fajfrowski drama - and I still find the comment I quoted inappropriate and in fairness am surprised by it coming from bucs) that might have lead the ref to give Parisse the RC during the game.

Now you may disagree but French ref have been given clear instructions with dealing about the "violence" on the pitch (there were even talks about disallowing any tackle above the waist - that is a direct consequence of the Fajfrowski drama). It may lead to misinterpretations. But that's better than accepting it as part of the game and not caring about it. It's only for a couple of years now that the rugby boards have started to be concerned about the injuries and concussions rugby players suffer with the escalation of physicality in the game. They have the example of american football not to follow with most former players suffering from brain degenration

Burkie1203 · 02-09-2018 9:45pm

Clermont walloped Racing in Paris. 40-17

Neil3030 · 02-09-2018 9:50pm

Had meant to get up for it (0750 start for me) but ended up sleeping in. How did Zebo play? I see he scored.

RockBoysarewii · 02-09-2018 11:27pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Had meant to get up for it (0750 start for me) but ended up sleeping in. How did Zebo play? I see he scored.

Fairly quiet game for Zebo gave away possession with a offload and ran the try in nothing else to say really.

Dubinusa · 03-09-2018 12:27am

Perpignan played better this week.

errlloyd · 03-09-2018 1:08am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Perpignan played better this week.

Against Agen...

Buer · 03-09-2018 9:13am

Watched the highlights of Racing and Perpignan matches for an Irish interest. Jackson appeared to go very well. Missed a kick at the death to win it but was not an easy shot. Had a hand in both their tries including a brilliant break for the first one.

Zebo took his try well against Clermont but the game was over at that point. He was on a well beaten side. Got turned over for one of the tries but was up against it. Yellow cards meant he couldn't really be effective at times in his defensive duties.

Dave Ryan seemed to go well for Agen at tighthead and, I didn't see the highlights, but Foley, Dougal and Butler all started for Pau in their home win over Toulon.

Heymans · 03-09-2018 9:40am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Clermont walloped Racing in Paris. 40-17

Impressed with Camille Lopez and Fofana looks to be getting back to his best as well as the Clermont pack Slimani in particular.

prawnsambo · 08-09-2018 4:34pm

Toulouse are beating La Rochelle at the moment. 14-0 after 30 minutes.

prawnsambo · 08-09-2018 4:43pm

After defending for 10 minutes against rolling mauls and multi-phase attacks on their line, Toulouse break free and score another marvellous try. Handling is superb. They are back.