French rugby Updates : Le café du Rugby.

Morf

thomond2006 wrote: »

Move over Toulon, there's a new team of foreigners in town...

Racing have apparently signed current Springbok lock Juandré Kruger. Cardiff's Jamie Roberts has also signed along with Tonga'uiha and Mujati of Northampton.

Jackie Lorenzetti is not poor by any means.

thomond2006

Morf wrote: »

Jackie Lorenzetti is not poor by any means.

It looks like he's finally splashing the real cash after too many seasons of mediocrity. They could be the transfer story of the summer, they're getting new coaches in as well. They could do with a big name lock, backrow and centre.

Winters

thomond2006 wrote: »

Move over Toulon, there's a new team of foreigners in town...

Racing have apparently signed current Springbok lock Juandré Kruger. Cardiff's Jamie Roberts has also signed along with Tonga'uiha and Mujati of Northampton.

Racing must have been linked with every player currently under contract negotiations! Seems like all the agent has to do is link his client's name with Racing these days.

JustinDee

thomond2006 wrote: »

Move over Toulon, there's a new team of foreigners in town...

Racing have apparently signed current Springbok lock Juandré Kruger. Cardiff's Jamie Roberts has also signed along with Tonga'uiha and Mujati of Northampton.

This is getting progressively worse. Toulon, USAP, Biarritz and now Racing Metro, with USAP being least overseas-driven fielding 'only' NINE.
No salary caps means French teams can effectively buy two squads. Length of season hardly an issue with these guys.

thomond2006

JustinDee wrote: »

This is getting progressively worse. Toulon, USAP, Biarritz and now Racing Metro, with USAP being least overseas-driven fielding 'only' NINE.
No salary caps means French teams can effectively buy two squads. Length of season hardly an issue with these guys.

Have they any foreign player restrictions?

I don't think this augurs badly for the French national team, for the most part the best French players will still start for their clubs despite the influx of foreigners. The only current example of a French player getting squeezed out that I can think of is Pierrick Gunther and he's only an extended squad member.

What would be worrying for France is if Toulouse suddenly went down the route of buying foreigners en masse, they are a very important academy for French players and only cherry pick foreigners for positions where they lack depth in domestic players.

JustinDee

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/nrl-premiership/israel-folau-to-play-rugby-union-in-europe-instead-of-returning-to-the-nrl-with-parramatta/story-fn2mcuj6-1226527659974

Rugby League star Israel Folau expected to join a Top14 club from the NRL. Anyone know much about him, what position would he play in union?

Just agent piffle while negotiating with Aussie rugby union states/franchises. Has signed with NSWRU so that's him in line for Wallabies spot ahead of RWC2015. Made a shed load of money with AFL for two years but didn't make any great waves out on the oval.

He is an amazing player. There are three notables from the NRL over the last few years, Sonny Bill Williams, Greg Inglis and Israel Folau. He'll be a centre or wing in rugby union, and of these positions, centre will be his strongest. 6"5, around 100kg and very athletic. Massive handoff, great pace, super runner and a superb defender. The NSW union will have shelled out a lot of money for him. I wish he was Irish. That along with Quade Cooper signing up again, will have hit the St Leonards coffers.

Podge_irl

JustinDee wrote: »

This is getting progressively worse. Toulon, USAP, Biarritz and now Racing Metro, with USAP being least overseas-driven fielding 'only' NINE.
No salary caps means French teams can effectively buy two squads. Length of season hardly an issue with these guys.

Was there not talk a year or so ago of the French clubs introducing a cap on the number of players who didn't come through French academies?

JustinDee

Podge_irl wrote: »

Was there not talk a year or so ago of the French clubs introducing a cap on the number of players who didn't come through French academies?

Heard something like that alright. Don't know when any implementation was aimed for though.

Winters

Isaacs has been removed from his post at Biarritz. A fall out from Connachts win?

thomond2006

Bryan Habana to sign for Toulon. They are trying to bring in John Smit as well, two hookers are leaving in the summer.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Habana-arrive/333705

I don't think there's going to be much more movement with Toulon in the summer, their squad is pretty settled. The big story will be if Wilkinson retires or not, the club have said they will extend his contract if he wants to play on.

JustinDee

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bryan Habana to sign for Toulon. They are trying to bring in John Smit as well, two hookers are leaving in the summer.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Habana-arrive/333705

They really should look elsewhere one of these days. France would be a start ...

thomond2006

JustinDee wrote: »

They really should look elsewhere one of these days. France would be a start ...

Why should they care? There's no incentive for them to develop French players! I wish they had more French players but they're not like Irish provinces. Plus they would argue they are contributing plenty players to the squad: Suta, Michalak and Mermoz were in the 23 while Gunther and Martin were in the extended squad. The only teams that contributed more players were Toulouse and Clermont.

ssaye

thomond2006 wrote: »

Why should they care? There's no incentive for them to develop French players! I wish they had more French players but they're not like Irish provinces. Plus they would argue they are contributing plenty players to the squad: Suta, Michalak and Mermoz were in the 23 while Gunther and Martin were in the extended squad. The only teams that contributed more players were Toulouse and Clermont.

The Man City of Rugby, would that be a decent comparison.

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Why should they care? There's no incentive for them to develop French players!

Saving them millions in the long run would be an incentive. A more indigenous side would have knock on affects in terms of marketing and local support too, I'd have thought.

I don't begrudge Toulon any of their signings but I'm surprised they haven't really made more of an effort to develop talent at this point.

thomond2006

ssaye wrote: »

The Man City of Rugby, would that be a decent comparison.

Probably!

GerM wrote: »

Saving them millions in the long run would be an incentive. A more indigenous side would have knock on affects in terms of marketing and local support too, I'd have thought.

I don't begrudge Toulon any of their signings but I'm surprised they haven't really made more of an effort to develop talent at this point.

I'd say it's the foreign stars like Wilkinson that are good for marketing to be honest!

Judgement Day

Jonny Wilkinson's Toulon as it's often referred to in the media. Maybe he'll buy the club after he comes home from the Lions tour.

Winters

GerM wrote: »

Saving them millions in the long run would be an incentive. A more indigenous side would have knock on affects in terms of marketing and local support too, I'd have thought.

I don't begrudge Toulon any of their signings but I'm surprised they haven't really made more of an effort to develop talent at this point.

They developed Fickou..

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Probably!



I'd say it's the foreign stars like Wilkinson that are good for marketing to be honest!

Within reason, definitely. Wilkinson is a phenomenon though and is/was the most marketable player on the planet.

However, I feel that a handful of foreign players tend to make far more impact in terms of marketing than a team full of them. I wouldn't think the likes of Gethin Jenkins or Nick Kennedy are the most marketable players in the world but are taking up a major chunk of cash. I reckon they'd be better served by having about 8-10 big foreign players and developing French players beyond that rather than the 18 foreign stars currently on their books.

GerM

Winters wrote: »

They developed Fickou..

Indeed and I know they do have a half decent academy set up. However, they choose to continually buy in talent. I don't know the ins and outs of Fickou's departure but he could well have looked at Toulouse who have a great record of bringing through young French backs (albeit mostly ones they've pinched from elsewhere) and thought it was a far better place for him.

thomond2006

GerM wrote: »

Indeed and I know they do have a half decent academy set up. However, they choose to continually buy in talent. I don't know the ins and outs of Fickou's departure but he could well have looked at Toulouse who have a great record of bringing through young French backs (albeit mostly ones they've pinched from elsewhere) and thought it was a far better place for him.

Too many centres in the Toulon squad already: Giteau, Mermoz, Basteraud, Messina

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Too many centres in the Toulon squad already: Giteau, Mermoz, Basteraud, Messina

McAlister, David, Fritz, Jauzion, Poitreneaud.

JustinDee

thomond2006 wrote: »

Why should they care?

They don't. That's my point.
I am of the firm belief that you cannot just buy a team in. How many millions of Euro for players resulting in how many tournament wins? How long will Boujellal (sp?) stick with this? If he bolted following more disappointments, where does that leave Toulon? More to being a French club than location and a crowd

Winters

GerM wrote: »

Indeed and I know they do have a half decent academy set up. However, they choose to continually buy in talent. I don't know the ins and outs of Fickou's departure but he could well have looked at Toulouse who have a great record of bringing through young French backs (albeit mostly ones they've pinched from elsewhere) and thought it was a far better place for him.

I read somewhere, when asked about his move and the differences between playing for Toulon and Toulouse he said they speak French in Toulouse.

.ak

Winters wrote: »

I read somewhere, when asked about his move and the differences between playing for Toulon and Toulouse he said they speak French in Toulouse.

Hahah, even if that isn't true that's brilliant.

thomond2006

JustinDee wrote: »

They don't. That's my point.
I am of the firm belief that you cannot just buy a team in. How many millions of Euro for players resulting in how many tournament wins? How long will Boujellal (sp?) stick with this? If he bolted following more disappointments, where does that leave Toulon? More to being a French club than location and a crowd

Well he said in a recent Sky Sports feature that the club is now self-financing.

totallegend

This is getting ridiculous. Having just renewed Carl Hayman's contract, Toulon are hoping to sign Martin Castrogiovanni as well as Vrimi Vakatawa for next season, according to Midi Olympique.

And Juandre Kruger is joining Racing from next season.

irishbucsfan

There is something extremely bizarre about Toulon.

thomond2006

Castro won't happen unless Kubriashvili is leaving. Under Saint Andre, Hayman and Kubri were rotated but Hayman is clear first choice this year. Kubri is a very good player and still young at 26, would definitely take him at Munster if Botha does leave.

Vakatawa makes sense because he qualifies as a French produced player, from next season 55% of players in French clubs' squads must be "JIFF". I don't fully understand the system myself but if I can plug the podcast here, we'll be looking at it tonight.

4PP

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well he said in a recent Sky Sports feature that the club is now self-financing.

Rubbish!
Who owns the Stade Mayol? Toulon, the town not the club.
Who hands over 3 if not more million a year? Toulon, the town not the club.
Who helped finance the training facilities? Toulon, the town not the club.

Bougdela is full of Sh1te

Toulouse & Clermont are probably the only clubs in France who are self sufficient & I'm not even certain about that.

4PP

JIFF

"Jeune Issu de la Formation Francaise"


- Player registered in any French club(s) for 5 years before his 21st birthday.


or


- Player who was part of a French clubs "academy" for at least 3 years between his 16th & 21st birtday.

No requirement to be a French national, naturalized or otherwise.
No requirement to be eligible for the French national team.

Next season all teams will be required to have a minimum of 55% JIFF players on their books. Not the match day squad, the club squad.

It was to have been 60% up from 40% this year but the clubs negotiated a reduction.

4PP

FCG 15-6 ST

Massive, massive, match from both sides. Incredibly intense.

This win is even more unbelievable when you remember that 13 of the 15 who started the game played in the ProD2 last season. Some of them were with FCG when they were in Federale(amateur) after FCG's demotion for financial shenanigans!.

thomond2006

4PP wrote: »

Rubbish!
Who owns the Stade Mayol? Toulon, the town not the club.
Who hands over 3 if not more million a year? Toulon, the town not the club.
Who helped finance the training facilities? Toulon, the town not the club.

Bougdela is full of Sh1te

Toulouse & Clermont are probably the only clubs in France who are self sufficient & I'm not even certain about that.

I don't believe him either to be honest! The guy has too much of a personal stake in the club for it to be true.

Big result for Grenoble alright, I had backed Toulouse on the handicap because I expected a Grenoble backlash. Are Grenoble genuine playoff contenders?

4PP

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't believe him either to be honest! The guy has too much of a personal stake in the club for it to be true.

Big result for Grenoble alright, I had backed Toulouse on the handicap because I expected a Grenoble backlash. Are Grenoble genuine playoff contenders?

Top 6 is feasible but I doubt they'll get further than that.
They do have a very sound base, good people be-it in administration or coaching in place.
These guys are not a flash in the pan & my guess is they'll become a major force in the next few years.
Everything is done conservatively & unlike some they are not after instant results. They are building for the long-term.
Their last title was in 1954. I wouldn't be surprised if they were in a final 3/4 years from now.

P_1

Out of interest, who tends to own the stadia in France, is it the clubs themselves or the local councils?

Been reading up lately on the 'hijinks' that went on during the Vichy period between the League, the Union and the Government.

4PP

pithater1 wrote: »

Out of interest, who tends to own the stadia in France, is it the clubs themselves or the local councils?

Been reading up lately on the 'hijinks' that went on during the Vichy period between the League, the Union and the Government.

Got a title? I'd be interested in that.

To answer your question the vast majority of sports grounds/equipment in France are owned & maintained by local authorities.

P_1

4PP wrote: »

Got a title? I'd be interested in that.

The books called 'The Forbidden Game' written by Mike Rylance

Here's an interesting article from the Independent of London about it written in 2007:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/badge-of-dishonour-french-rugbys-shameful-secret-401557.html

4PP

pithater1 wrote: »

The books called 'The Forbidden Game' written by Mike Rylance

Here's an interesting article from the Independent of London about it written in 2007:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/badge-of-dishonour-french-rugbys-shameful-secret-401557.html

Interesting read alright. I think I'll do a little straw poll down the local club & see just how many are aware of it. Imho very few, if at all......

P_1

4PP wrote: »

Interesting read alright. I think I'll do a little straw poll down the local club & see just how many are aware of it. Imho very few, if at all......

I'd imagine not tbh

I'd say like anything remotely related with the Vichy period it would have been swept firmly under the carpet dans le France

4PP

Local press report that Bayonnes back row Francois Carillo who collapsed during the warm up & is now in a coma in hospital is far from out of the woods.


The young man is critical.


If you have a few seconds to spare offer them up in prayer or whatever your beliefs allow for him & his family.

It doesn't cost any money & it can't do any harm.


Thank you.

thomond2006

ESPN now reporting it 4PP, fingers crossed for him.

4PP

Positive thoughts lads, positive thoughts.
I'm not a crusty by any means..................but that said............ it doesn't cost us anything & sure who knows?

Fingers, knees & toes crossed..........as a father......... for him & his family

4PP

Publié le 22/12/2012 à 22:04, mis à jour le 22/12/2012 à 22:08
Après l'évacuation à l'hôpital de Bayonne du troisième ligne, François Carillo (24 ans), son club a donné des nouvelles rassurantes du joueur ce samedi soir. L'Aviron bayonnais a communiqué via son compte Twitter. François Carillo avait été victime d'un malaise lors de l'échauffement contre Mont-de-Marsan et avait du être admis au service réanimation de l'hôpital.

Les messages du club: "De bonnes nouvelles en provenance de l'hôpital de Bayonne:les premiers examens pratiqués sur François Carrillo sont rassurants" et "'L'origine de son malaise n'est toujours pas clairement déterminée, de nouvelles investigations auront lieu dimanche matin".



GOOD NEWS!


The above does not give the wherefore or the whyfore, further tests will be conducted tomorrow, but (hopefully) the chap is on the right road!.


Were our positive thoughts of any use? Who knows? They didn't do any harm though!

4PP

thomond2006 wrote: »

ESPN now reporting it 4PP, fingers crossed for him.

So now you'd have me believe ESPN read planks?
Honestly

4PP

In other news Charteris is out for the rest of the season. Did the ligaments in his knee this evening & initial reports suggest thats it for this year. No Lions tour for Charteris.

4PP

According to reports on the Bayonne site the young man, Carillo, is in good form & has been talking to his family.
Medical staff still have no explanation as to what happened the chap & for obvious reasons he'll be staying in hospital for now.
Not fun I know but a lesser evil all told.
Hope the doc's get it sorted sooner rather than later.

Keep the positive thoughts coming, Happy Christmas.

P_1

4PP wrote: »

According to reports on the Bayonne site the young man, Carillo, is in good form & has been talking to his family.
Medical staff still have no explanation as to what happened the chap & for obvious reasons he'll be staying in hospital for now.
Not fun I know but a lesser evil all told.
Hope the doc's get it sorted sooner rather than later.

Keep the positive thoughts coming, Happy Christmas.

It's becoming a lot more common in professional sports (most high profile obviously being in football) with the high volume of supliments being taken and all the streamlining of diets.

4PP

4PP wrote: »

According to reports on the Bayonne site the young man, Carillo, is in good form & has been talking to his family.
Medical staff still have no explanation as to what happened the chap & for obvious reasons he'll be staying in hospital for now.
Not fun I know but a lesser evil all told.
Hope the doc's get it sorted sooner rather than later.

Keep the positive thoughts coming, Happy Christmas.

All good news for the 'mo but still no explanation. pithater1 may be right .
On a positive note the doctors have said that without the speedy intervention of his teamates & the French equivalent of the Order of Malta/St Johns Ambulance /Redcross etc etc the story could have had a different ending.

So what say a hearty "Thank You" to all the folks who stand in the perishing cold & rain so lads & lassies, whatever the level, can run through the muck with a ball under their arm knowing that if it does go pearshaped, they'll look after us.

Maybe you'll tell them personally next time you're at a match?. Buy them a nice hot cuppa/coffee?....Or bung a euro coin or two into the collection box?.....Whatever your situation allows.......Sport, particularly at the amateur level, needs them.

thomond2006

Good to see he's doing well.

Castro to Toulon is apparently a done deal: http://www.laprovence.com/actu/sports-en-direct/rugby-rct-accord-conclu-avec-castrogiovanni

A bizarre signing, even by Toulon's high standards of bizarrement! (Is that a word? )

P_1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Good to see he's doing well.

Castro to Toulon is apparently a done deal: http://www.laprovence.com/actu/sports-en-direct/rugby-rct-accord-conclu-avec-castrogiovanni

A bizarre signing, even by Toulon's high standards of bizarrement! (Is that a word? )

Must mean that Genkins is on the way out so

GerM

pithater1 wrote: »

Must mean that Genkins is on the way out so

Castro is a tighthead, primarily. Jenkins is generally a loosehead; he hasn't played tighthead in years.